tortugamon
Topic Author
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:44 pm

Hainan Airlines, China's fourth-largest carrier, on Wednesday posted a net profit increase of 20 per cent for last year and said it would buy 30 next-generation Boeing 787 planes for up to US$7.7 billion.

http://www.scmp.com/business/compani...oeing-787-dreamliners-us77-billion


tortugamon
 
LTH
Posts: 129
Joined: Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:49 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:52 pm

If this orders gets finalized - even with less than 30 planes - it would be a little set back for the A330neo and A330 program since Hainan is already an A330 customer.


LTH
 
Prost
Posts: 2524
Joined: Wed Oct 03, 2012 6:23 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 4:56 pm

Hainan is also a 787 customer, so my guess is the mission profiles Hainan is looking at favor the 787 (see BOS). That doesn't mean there isn't room for the A330 NEO in their fleet, as Hainan doesn't seem to be as beholden to political considerations as most Chinese carriers are.
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10058
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 2):
That doesn't mean there isn't room for the A330 NEO in their fleet, as Hainan doesn't seem to be as beholden to political considerations as most Chinese carriers are.

30 additional 787s is almost double their A330 fleet (at 17 frames) and would give them 42 total. Their Hong Kong Airways subsidiary has A350s on order to replace their A330s. I don't see much room for the A330Neo because Hainan doesn't seem to be as beholden to political considerations as most Chinese carriers are.
 
User avatar
zeke
Posts: 14677
Joined: Thu Dec 14, 2006 1:42 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):

Hainan Airlines cannot order aircraft directly, aircraft in China are ordered by the state unless done via the back door with MFM/HKG (like that never happened).
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
29erUSA187
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:34 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:09 pm

Wow. The expansion with these would be incredible! Are they -8's or -9's (I assume -8's)? I wonder if they will use this to expand to more secondary us cities! PDX, SAN, and SLC anyone?
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10058
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
Hainan Airlines cannot order aircraft directly, aircraft in China are ordered by the state unless done via the back door with MFM/HKG (like that never happened).

Is that true even for private airlines like the HNA group? I thought that only applies to the big state carriers?
 
dtw2hyd
Posts: 7683
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:11 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:12 pm

Congratulations Hainan. At least there is one airline in the world which shadows ME3 like a blood thirsty hound.
 
columba
Posts: 5232
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 10:12 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:17 pm

Hopefully they will use the 787 to TXLsoon

[Edited 2015-03-25 10:18:32]
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
User avatar
qf789
Moderator
Posts: 9904
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2015 3:42 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 5):
Are they -8's or -9's

Hainan currently have 9 787-8 in service with 3 more to come. This new order is for 30 787-9.

When this order is conformed Boeing will have 1102 787 on the books.

At the end of February they had 466 787-8, 467 787-9 & 139 787-10, total of 1072 787
Forum Moderator
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6584
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 5:23 pm

I'll believe it when Boeing issues the press release. Last time HNA talked out of turn about orders, we were led to expect 15 747-8s, but then nothing happened... and nothing happened... and eventually everyone stopped talking about it.

That said, 30 787-9s would be a great addition to their fleet. I hope this one does happen.

[Edited 2015-03-25 10:24:14]
 
pnwtraveler
Posts: 1074
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2007 2:12 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:29 pm

I see the B789 more likely to happen than the B748i. The fact that they also have secured reciprocal insurance and credit guarantees from a sister company is the biggest factor in confidence in the order. Hainan probably makes sure the right individuals are looked after to keep free from the worst political influence. In the world of finance Credit is massive. Who underwrites the order and how the credit is obtained is often something that goes right over the head of Anetters when it comes to aircraft orders. It has a clear and direct impact of profits.

On a different note but still on credit, a massive order backed by unlimited credit from a person, government or other entity that has a strong and steady income source (nudge nudge, wink wink, gee who might I be thinking of), has a huge bearing on the cost per airframe, interest rate charged if a sale leaseback is arranged, etc. etc. If you have ever bought a car and compared costs of the various percentage points of credit cost, you will know exactly what I am talking about. My current car squeaked in as a 1.9% lease rate and made it possible to get one absolutely loaded with options versus a rather more basic version of the direct competitor. That and other "incentives" meant I got a lot more car for my money. Or I could have taken a direct compete car with fewer options and saved a whack of cash.

Take it one more hypothetical step. If the US Government were all of a sudden to take an interest in American Airlines, and quietly guaranteed or underwrote the credit for new aircraft to the manufacturer, suppliers , etc, ignoring the shrill screaming of United of course, AA would get a much better finance rate immediately, probably would qualify for lower list prices immediately, could negotiate other incentives like credits against follow-on or future orders, and so on and so on. The financial amount of the bottom line would be rather significant. The first thing United would do is claim unfair advantage and take them to court. And of course they would be right. Foreign carriers might do the same thing. This is the most subtle way of gaining an advantage on competition and it takes a lot to prove it as a subsidy. Add all that credit advantage up and down the supply chain and you have a signifcant savings

Back to Hainan's situation, by arranging credit and not needing Beijing to do that it would make life much simpler for them and bypass a lot of complications.
 
jfk777
Posts: 7207
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:31 pm

Hainan really had to go with the 787 since the A330 doesn't have the legs it needs for all the long thin flights HA wants to operate.
 
spartanmjf
Posts: 511
Joined: Fri Nov 11, 2005 11:31 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting columba (Reply 8):
Hopefully they will use the 787 to TXLsoon

Don't you mean BER ?


     
"Nuts to the man in 21D!"
 
ASA
Posts: 1107
Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2010 5:12 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:05 pm

Quoting dtw2hyd (Reply 7):
Congratulations Hainan. At least there is one airline in the world which shadows ME3 like a blood thirsty hound.

Care to elaborate please ... rather than unnecessary name calling?
 
continental004
Posts: 386
Joined: Sat Sep 13, 2014 11:53 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:25 pm

I see PEK-ONT coming soon. If HU will do PEK-SJC, they will do PEK-ONT.
 
tortugamon
Topic Author
Posts: 6795
Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 11:14 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
Hainan Airlines cannot order aircraft directly, aircraft in China are ordered by the state unless done via the back door with MFM/HKG (like that never happened).

I thought Hainan was different because it was a private company. The other airlines have to go through the the Chinese government but I don't think Hainan has to.

Quoting Polot (Reply 6):
Is that true even for private airlines like the HNA group? I thought that only applies to the big state carriers?

You are not alone.

tortugamon
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26723
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:49 pm

Well, even if CAAC has to approve it, they're unlikely to not do so considering commercial airplanes are one of the major ways China tries to balance out their trade with the USA.
 
29erUSA187
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:34 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:56 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 9):
Hainan currently have 9 787-8 in service with 3 more to come. This new order is for 30 787-9.

Itll be nice to see the stretch 787 in Hainans fleet.

And Im sorry if the type was mentioned in the article, I have been on my iPad all day and it was having trouble opening that article
 
N1120A
Posts: 26542
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 8:56 pm

I wonder if they will actually do ONT
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
29erUSA187
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:34 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:01 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 19):
I wonder if they will actually do ONT

I'd vote against it, but It would be a way for them to bypass the CAAC "One carrier per route" rule to get into the LA area.

With all the manufactoring business in ONT, and LOTS in China, is there a shred of possibility that this could happen?
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12848
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
Hainan Airlines cannot order aircraft directly, aircraft in China are ordered by the state unless done via the back door with MFM/HKG (like that never happened).
HU is private though, not a CAAC legacy.

Doubtful that it applies to them.

[Edited 2015-03-25 14:18:12]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
karadion
Posts: 1020
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2014 8:06 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:47 pm

Hmm so the WSJ says that United is switching delivery positions with Hainan so United will get 77W's. That restarts the rumor about United getting more 77W's, doesn't it?
http://www.wsj.com/articles/hainan-a...n-to-buy-30-boeing-787s-1427315406
 
29erUSA187
Posts: 1277
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:34 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 22):

More? Is there a rumor I missed about additional 77W's on top of the ones already being considered?
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6584
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting Karadion (Reply 22):
Hmm so the WSJ says that United is switching delivery positions with Hainan so United will get 77W's. That restarts the rumor about United getting more 77W's, doesn't it?

Also interesting in that article was that AA declined the 787-9 delivery positions because it wanted 787-8s. I always assumed AA switched from the -9 to the -8 only because it could secure better delivery slots.
 
User avatar
rotating14
Posts: 1391
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 11:54 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 23):

I doubt it.
 
User avatar
Stitch
Posts: 26723
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 23):
More? Is there a rumor I missed about additional 77W's on top of the ones already being considered?

United wants to swap 787-9s for 777-300ERs. As part of that swap, United's 787-9 positions were offered to American, who declined to take them, and are now being offered to Hainan, who agreed to take them (pending final negotiations between Boeing, United and Hainan).
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 18837
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:36 pm

Wow. This is a vote of confidence. Is this the largest 787 top off order?

Lightsaber
IM messages to mods on warnings and bans will be ignored and nasty ones will result in a ban.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 10:45 pm

Actually this Hainan order will probably a mix of leased 787-9 and direct purchase from Boeing. See my blog.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
LAXintl
Posts: 24065
Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:11 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 4):
Hainan Airlines cannot order aircraft directly, aircraft in China are ordered by the state unless done via the back door with MFM/HKG (like that never happened).

Actually Hainan is one of the few that makes fleet decisions directly, and does not need to go through CASGC, but can use them as source if needed. (that's how HU ended up with its initial 787 fleet).

Quoting continental004 (Reply 15):
I see PEK-ONT coming soon. If HU will do PEK-SJC, they will do PEK-ONT.

No need for ONT. One or more Hainan family airlines are coming to LAX. They have a large country and don't need to use PEK as sole gateway.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
User avatar
VCEflyboy
Posts: 1237
Joined: Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:17 pm

I wouldn't hold my breath. HNA also ordered a bunch of a380s for HX and the order never came to fruition.
 
NYC777
Posts: 5103
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 3:00 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Wed Mar 25, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting qf789 (Reply 9):
Hainan currently have 9 787-8 in service with 3 more to come. This new order is for 30 787-9.

When this order is conformed Boeing will have 1102 787 on the books.

Most likely not. For one thing UAL is trading in 787s for 777 and those slots are going to Hainan and second is that Hainan is leasing part of that 30 x 787-9 order from ALC. At the end Boeing might register a slight increase in the 787 backlog.
That which does not kill me makes me stronger.
 
User avatar
seabosdca
Posts: 6584
Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2007 8:33 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 12:07 am

Quoting NYC777 (Reply 31):
At the end Boeing might register a slight increase in the 787 backlog.

   5 frames if all the rumors add up. I don't know that all 15 of the ALC frames are for Hainan, though, so that might add a few more to the eventual order.
 
User avatar
neutrino
Posts: 1536
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:33 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 27):
Is this the largest 787 top off order?

Didn't SQ order 30 dash10s almost two years ago?
Though their first tranche of 20 dash9s were reassigned to wholly owned Scoot (who later converted half of them to dash8s), its still SQ that placed both orders..
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
B2443
Posts: 588
Joined: Sat Jul 03, 2004 2:28 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 21):
HU is private though,

No, HU is NOT private. It may be the largest "privately" owned, compared to other Chinese airlines such as Air China, China Eastern, and China Southern, but the provencial government of Hainan is the largest and controling stake holder.
 
mham001
Posts: 5680
Joined: Thu Feb 03, 2005 4:52 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting neutrino (Reply 33):
Didn't SQ order 30 dash10s almost two years ago?
Though their first tranche of 20 dash9s were reassigned to wholly owned Scoot (who later converted half of them to dash8s), its still SQ that placed both orders..

Please. It's not dash10s and dash8s. This is not English, nor Boeing phraseology and it is difficult to read as well as adds yet another (unnecessary) acronym to remember.
 
jayunited
Posts: 2444
Joined: Sat Jan 05, 2013 12:03 am

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 3:05 pm

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 24):
Also interesting in that article was that AA declined the 787-9 delivery positions because it wanted 787-8s. I always assumed AA switched from the -9 to the -8 only because it could secure better delivery slots.

I know I found that interesting as well that AA would pass up on the opportunity to get their hands on a few more 787's earlier than planned but it sort of makes sense that AA passed up the slots because they are scheduled to start taking delievery of the A350 in 2016 if I'm not mistaken.

If this order does in fact become firm congrats to Hainan and if this article is true it seems like UA will be adding the 77W to their fleet as well. So it is a win win for all parties involved HU gets UA's 787 slots, UA gets some much needed 77W's and AA will add the A359.
 
BravoOne
Posts: 3863
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 2:27 pm

RE: Hainan Airlines To Buy 30 787s.

Thu Mar 26, 2015 4:38 pm

To a degree HU is limited by the shortage of flight crews. They have been actively recruiting along with most other Asian airlines for pilots.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos