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Moose135
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 46):
I personally think it is time to consider that the average FA is as trustworthy as the average pilot.

Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because from some of the posts here, it sounds like many don't trust pilots these days...
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avek00
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting flymia (Reply 41):
International flight, Montreal convention applies. There are a lot of caps on damages. No punitive damages allowed, I want to say no emotional damages as well. Victims families will get money, but it won't be huge sums to everyone.

Not true. You are confusing the old liability limits of the Warsaw Convention with the Montreal Convention, which has removed liability limits for death to passengers.
Live life to the fullest.
 
CO953
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:19 pm

If it happened as thought, what a sad, sad day in aviation.

The bond of trust between passenger and pilot is near sacrosanct. The level of trust by passengers who board a metal tube to go hurtling through the clouds should never be underestimated, as this trust - even moreso than faith in the technology - is the main reason that commercial aviation allows us to travel the world, and that it thrives. The trust truly is akin to that of a child for a parent. The trust of a father or mother who boards an airplane with his or her children and feels comforted by the sight of the man or woman in the cap and epaulets is the most ultimate surrender of control I can think of in the modern world, outside of death row in a penitentiary.

RIP to all, and prayers to the families. This one truly cuts deep.

[Edited 2015-03-26 12:22:33]
 
klwright69
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:25 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 48):
Remember a few years back everyone was heralding the locked door after the B6 pilot had a breakdown of sorts?

Yes. But in the end the people aboard subdued the nutty pilot. That one could have easily ended this same way.
 
heyjoojoo
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:27 pm

Quoting jerrylee (Reply 222):
Well, I don' t buy this story until authorities can explain why a 28 yrs First Officer of one of the most renowned airlines of the world, has decided to commit suicide in his plane while responsible for 150 pax taking them to death. This is simply unbelievable absurd. This guy has a good record, was rewarded by FAA for exceptional skills. Tell me why this young man screwed it all up. .

I agree. I wonder when I hear odd stories like this. Seems like he would have too much going for him then to do that. Just doesn't make sense. I imagine if there is some sort of religious background that we're not being told.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:27 pm

Quoting Moose135 (Reply 50):
Is that a good thing or a bad thing? Because from some of the posts here, it sounds like many don't trust pilots these days...

I would say it is a fact and therefore I think the safety should never depend on one person.

For me it is logical that in case of an attack by a third party the crew would work together and fully lock the door, either 2 persons in the cockpit or those 2 + a signal from the cabin.

However if the perpetrator is part of the crew it makes sense to have a solution that makes it hard for him to lock out the rest of the crew. Which for me means the full lock down of the door should require input by 2 crew members. Without it crew members should be able to access the cockpit and render assistance if needed.
 
jsquared
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
What do they do if they feel the plane diving - presume the pilot is trying to kill everyone or presume the pilot is just performing their duty?

At the very least they could help prevent the non flying pilot from being locked out of the cockpit. In this case (should the pilot suicide theory prove correct) such a procedure could have averted the eventual outcome.
 
CO953
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting heyjoojoo (Reply 54):
I agree. I wonder when I hear odd stories like this. Seems like he would have too much going for him then to do that. Just doesn't make sense. I imagine if there is some sort of religious background that we're not being told.

That's why I'm going to hold open a sliver of daylight for him until/if the FDR chip is found. If not one word was heard from the cockpit, then there is possibly still something here not totally understood. I agree that it looks weird. But it doesn't look good.
 
MadameConcorde
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:35 pm

Germanwings 4U9525

French Ministry of the Interior

Photo stream:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ministere_interieur/

Video account
http://www.dailymotion.com/Ministere_interieur

Rot in Hell co-pilot Andreas Lubitz

    

[Edited 2015-03-26 12:36:59]
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
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litz
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:35 pm

Let's also remember, neither Malaysian or Germanwings is, at this point, a confirmed pilot suicide.

In the former, there's no data, so it's just conjecture.

In the latter, there is data, and some early hypothesis, but there is no confirmed investigative report stating so.

The copilot could, in some way, still have had a medical issue.

It is correct to state the investigation has a working hypothesis of suicide.

It is not correct to state that it's a confirmed suicide.

(also remember, to the media, sensationalism sells ... to them, this is open and shut, and ratings are all that matters)

[Edited 2015-03-26 12:36:29]
 
DDR
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:36 pm

I'm certainly not an expert, but it seems to me that the design that prevented the captain from re entering the cockpit is just as much to blame in this crash as is the co pilot.

Plus, if there had been a FA in the cockpit he/she could have opened the door.

I certainly hope that this incident will not erode the public's confidence in flight crew. This was only one incident on a day where literally, thousands of other flights took off and landed without a hitch.
 
Planeflyer
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting CO953

If it happened as thought, what a sad, sad day in aviation.

The bond of trust between passenger and pilot is near sacrosanct. The level of trust by passengers who board a metal tube to go hurtling through the clouds should never be underestimated, as this trust - even moreso than faith in the technology - is the main reason that commercial aviation allows us to travel the world, and that it thrives. The trust truly is akin to that of a child for a parent. The trust of a father or mother who boards an airplane with his or her children and feels comforted by the sight of the man or woman in the cap and epaulets is the most ultimate surrender of control I can think of in the modern world, outside of death row in a penitentiary.

RIP to all, and prayers to the families. This one truly cuts deep.

Well said, hadn't thought of it quite that way but I think you are right. You captured what many probably have been thinking but have not been able to say..
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 44):
It still makes me wonder how the FAs are being trained. Sure they can go into the cockpit and hope their presence deters a suicidal pilot, but there's no guarantee it will. What do they do if they feel the plane diving - presume the pilot is trying to kill everyone or presume the pilot is just performing their duty?

The F/A training I went through at HA (and I would assume most US based airlines are similar) involved the use of some cockpit equipment (i.e. jump seat quick-donning oxygen mask). The primary reason for the F/A in the cockpit is NOT to prevent a suicide, that is "side-benefit." The primary reason is that the F/A can open the door to let the pilot back in if something happens (medical issue, mechanical issue, etc.)

-Aloha!
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PlanesNTrains
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:38 pm

Perhaps it's time (I'm not censoring!) to open a Tech/Ops discussion about cockpit security. When we are all trying to digest this tragedy and what happened, wading through post after post after post about what we should do or how we could make a door better etc is making it increasingly difficult and time consuming in keeping up with the thread topic.

It's just a friendly request - if this is the place to brainstorm cockpit security, I'm not in charge so feel free.  

-Dave
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LTC8K6
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting CO953 (Reply 57):
That's why I'm going to hold open a sliver of daylight for him until/if the FDR chip is found. If not one word was heard from the cockpit, then there is possibly still something here not totally understood. I agree that it looks weird. But it doesn't look good.

It seems hard to believe that he just sat there quietly.

Makes you think that he took something to knock himself out.
 
liquidair
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:40 pm

I still don't understand the slow descent... It's a failure point in terms of risk. Surely just pointing down would have been more likely?
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 64):
It seems hard to believe that he just sat there quietly.

Makes you think that he took something to knock himself out.

I would think the same thing. What a crazy thought that instead of a very brief, steep dive that he instead sat for minutes and just watched the impending doom approach.

-Dave
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MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
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seahawk
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 66):

I would think the same thing. What a crazy thought that instead of a very brief, steep dive that he instead sat for minutes and just watched the impending doom approach.

-Dave

Not much different to people who drive onto the wrong lane of the highway and just keep going until they hit another car.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 65):
I still don't understand the slow descent... It's a failure point in terms of risk. Surely just pointing down would have been more likely?

Perhaps he could not directly do it himself.

Had to be unconscious when it happened.

So, set the AP for the descent, and then take poison.
 
bleudefrance
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:46 pm

What a tragic event. My thoughts go to the families of the victims and everybody else involved in this flight, even for the suicide pilot, i'm sure he was going through a deep mental ilness to be able to provoke an horrendous tragedy like this.
 
rta
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 65):

I still don't understand the slow descent... It's a failure point in terms of risk. Surely just pointing down would have been more likely?

Airbus flight computer wouldn't have allowed a dive. Also, with a slow descent, it's not completely clear what the intentions were. Did he want to crash the plane or did he suffer some sort of incapacitation? He saves face by not making it obvious he was trying to crash the plane, if he was in fact trying to do so.
 
capri
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:50 pm

So basically my understanding, there was no sign of trouble nor a worry nor out of the ordinary comments made by the co-pilot during the first leg. otherwise the Captain would not dare to leave the cockpit, so this is just either a sudden snap or a really well calculated action?
 
rlwynn
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:50 pm

I do not see how the two people in the cockpit rule would help in any way. If that rule was in place and I wanted to crash the plane I would plan on taking out the pilots replacement. I serouisly doubt a female or what I usually see as a male flight attendant would be much of a fight when they do not know what is about to happen.
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757gb
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:51 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 47):
No problem. I might have inferred what it said in the post as being clear, but I read in another post (maybe by Madame Concorde?) a fuller version that made it clear that they could hear everything in the cockpit off of the CVR, including the ATC alls to the aircraft.

I mainly just referred you to the thread to keep from re-explaining it. These threads move so fast that it's almost impossible to stay on top of it all.

-Dave

You are right, it was Madame Concorde on post 68 of previous thread (see below). Thanks for the pointer!

then we hear the contacts form the air control tower in Marseille this occurred several times but without any answers from the co-pilot

the air traffic controllers then request to activate the distress call from the transponder (the 7700) which means that this aircraft was becoming a priority among all the other aircraft for a possible forced landing

the air traffic control tower has even asked other aircraft do do a radio relay to get in contact with this Airbus but no answer had intervened
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
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scbriml
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 65):
I still don't understand the slow descent... It's a failure point in terms of risk. Surely just pointing down would have been more likely?
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 66):
I would think the same thing. What a crazy thought that instead of a very brief, steep dive that he instead sat for minutes and just watched the impending doom approach.

You're both guilty of applying rational, logical thought to an irrational, illogical course of action. Ration and logic went out the door (literally), when the captain answered the call of nature.
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana!
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A332DTW
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:52 pm

His breathing must have been very deep and rapid for the microphones to pick it up. He was possibly hyperventilating? Even if he was aware of what he was doing, his body must have gone into an adrenalin rush... which would explain the heavy breathing. I'm sure there are medical professionals on here who could explain that.
 
rta
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 72):
I serouisly doubt a female or what I usually see as a male flight attendant would be much of a fight when they do not know what is about to happen.

It's not fail proof, of course.
But they could attempt to open the door. And there would be more information on the CVR
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting MadameConcorde (Reply 58):
Rot in Hell co-pilot Andreas Lubitz

My daughter committed suicide in her late teens as a result of a mental illness in a way that could have, but fortunately didn't, kill others at the same time. Do you think she should rot in hell?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
DDR
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Ok, I admit I am confused. I thought the authorities said that the co pilot definitely crashed the plane on purpose. So it would seem, they know for a fact that there was no medical issue involved. Yes?
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 72):
I do not see how the two people in the cockpit rule would help in any way. If that rule was in place and I wanted to crash the plane I would plan on taking out the pilots replacement. I serouisly doubt a female or what I usually see as a male flight attendant would be much of a fight when they do not know what is about to happen.

It is a deterrent in the first place.

A fight at least allows the possibility that the FA will win and open the door.

I think the FA chosen to be in the cockpit, after these events, will not be the smallest one of the cabin crew.  
 
FltAdmiralRitt
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:57 pm

The solution to this type of situation is for the cockpit doors to be designed
to be forced open, and by force I mean the force of 30 Passengers force on some portion
of the door, that Breaks or bends the door at the attachment points.

With a highjacking no passenger is going to help the highjackers overcome the door.
With a crazy pilot he wont be able to count on an uninterrupted stay at the controlls

You would have to train the Cabin crew to recognize when the flight has left
expected flight profile, in case one of the pilots just KILLs w/o the cabin crew
hearing a disturbance.
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 74):
You're both guilty of applying rational, logical thought to an irrational, illogical course of action.

Guilty as charged.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
Skydrol
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 75):
His breathing must have been very deep and rapid for the microphones to pick it up.

I am not sure of this, but maybe mic in the O2 mask is also continuously recorded on CVR, not just with PTT active.




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LTC8K6
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 77):

My daughter committed suicide in her late teens as a result of a mental illness in a way that could have, but fortunately didn't, kill others at the same time. Do you think she should rot in hell?

Straw man, and a bad one.

I have seen no indication of mental illness on the part of the FO.
 
757gb
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 77):

So sorry for your loss. You bring up an important point in my opinion: as much as we need to vent or find blame, people suffering from mental illness at times are not responsible for their actions.
God is The Alpha and The Omega. We come from God. We go towards God. What an Amazing Journey...
 
capri
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 78):
Ok, I admit I am confused. I thought the authorities said that the co pilot definitely crashed the plane on purpose. So it would seem, they know for a fact that there was no medical issue involved. Yes?

No only that, they said he didn't respond to anything, I may have missed something, unless they published CVR, he may had argument in beginning of descent with captain and then full silence from him, let's say the rest of 7 mns
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 72):
I serouisly doubt a female or what I usually see as a male flight attendant would be much of a fight when they do not know what is about to happen.

FAs are not that stupid or weak. All they would have to do is open the door.
Not a very nice opinion.
 
LTC8K6
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 78):
Ok, I admit I am confused. I thought the authorities said that the co pilot definitely crashed the plane on purpose. So it would seem, they know for a fact that there was no medical issue involved. Yes?

A sudden medical issue cannot explain the locking out of the Captain, or the setting of the plane for descent towards the Alps.
 
747megatop
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 77):
My daughter committed suicide in her late teens as a result of a mental illness in a way that could have, but fortunately didn't, kill others at the same time. Do you think she should rot in hell?

My sympathies to you and your family; but the comparison is not valid. In your daughter's case she was genuinely ill and needed medical help. In this co-pilot's case; if he was mentally ill then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the flight deck. But if he wasn't mentally ill then, sure, why not rot in hell? Or ideally, if he survived and was captured then why not put him in jail for life if proven guilty after thorough investigation?

[Edited 2015-03-26 13:34:19]
 
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Finn350
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 78):
Ok, I admit I am confused. I thought the authorities said that the co pilot definitely crashed the plane on purpose. So it would seem, they know for a fact that there was no medical issue involved. Yes?

Yes, the co-pilot crashed the plane. The start of the descent with the Flight Management System was a deliberate action.

The authorities have not commented on any medical issue; the authorities certainly will look at his state of mind and mental health in the weeks and months preceding the act.
 
rlwynn
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting curiousflyer (Reply 86):
FAs are not that stupid or weak. All they would have to do is open the door.
Not a very nice opinion.

It is not an opinion, just reality. Who would have thought this guy would have done what he did. Who would think that the next guy is going to do what he is going to do. But the next guy is going to plan on taking out whomever comes in the cockpit after the other goes to take a leak. They are not going to be expecting anything and then wham. The door is locked and there is nobody to help.

[Edited 2015-03-26 13:07:17]
I can drive faster than you
 
PlanesNTrains
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:08 pm

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 83):
I have seen no indication of mental illness on the part of the FO.

Whatever we know now is not nearly what they will discover during the investigation. He may not have been mentally ill but neither you nor I are in a position to call that one just yet.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 88):
In this co-pilot's case; if he was mentally ill then he shouldn't have been anywhere near the flight deck.

That's the point. If he was mentally ill he might not have fully understood what he was doing. I'm not saying by any stretch of the imagination that that would be ok or "forgivable" but it's different than him just deciding to off himself and take 150 people with him for some vendetta or something.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 88):
Or ideally, if he survived and was captured then why not put him in jail for life if proven guilty after thorough investigation?

To some of us, that'd be much more endurable than rotting in Hell for all eternity. Though I understand the sentiment and would probably wish it on him if I had been directly impacted by this tragedy.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
liquidair
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 74):

That's undeniably true.

Quoting rta (Reply 70):

I'm pretty sure a few buttons pressed result in direct law...

Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 68):

Makes sense, in a way- but the risk of failing is still absolutely massive... Too big a risk IMO.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 77):

So sorry for your loss.
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
hivue
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 77):

The reason medicines and medical treatments often (though, unfortunately, not nearly often enough) help in cases of severe depression is that it is a disease with a physiological basis. MadameConcorde would do better to wish that more people with the illness get the treatment they need.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting diverted (Reply 48):
[email protected] if you do, [email protected] if you don't...

Nice way to sum up what I've been saying.

Quoting jsquared (Reply 56):
At the very least they could help prevent the non flying pilot from being locked out of the cockpit.
Quoting aloha73g (Reply 62):
The F/A training I went through at HA (and I would assume most US based airlines are similar) involved the use of some cockpit equipment (i.e. jump seat quick-donning oxygen mask). The primary reason for the F/A in the cockpit is NOT to prevent a suicide, that is "side-benefit." The primary reason is that the F/A can open the door to let the pilot back in if something happens (medical issue, mechanical issue, etc.)

That makes sense, presuming the door always can be operated from the inside (means you always trust everyone who's gotten access to the cockpit) regardless of the position of the switch on the panel.
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spacecadet
Posts: 3533
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2001 3:36 am

RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 80):
The solution to this type of situation is for the cockpit doors to be designed
to be forced open, and by force I mean the force of 30 Passengers force on some portion
of the door, that Breaks or bends the door at the attachment points.

That's not a good solution - for one thing you can't fit 30 passengers into that area of the plane. The number of passengers you *could* fit would be approximately the number of terrorists who have taken over airliners in the past.

The solution is to just not make it possible to ever completely lock out the crew. There are various ways to do that and still keep the cockpit door secure.
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MigPilot
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2005 6:17 am

RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:12 pm

A person committing suicide often changes its mind in the last moments. Anyone thought about the possibility that maybe after he locked out the captain, set the AP to descent and waited a few moments to be sure the plane would hit ground in the next 5 minutes he took some knockout drops to seal his fate?

Even more speculation, I know. But it just crossed my mind as I was thinking about why there was zero response from the cockpit while normal breathing was heard on the CVR.

Anyway, surely this will be confirmed (or not) by forensic analysis.
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 91):

Whatever we know now is not nearly what they will discover during the investigation. He may not have been mentally ill but neither you nor I are in a position to call that one just yet.

I haven't "called" anything.

There isn't any sign of mental illness so far.

His last act may be due to mental illness, and it may not.
 
rta
Posts: 1413
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting MigPilot (Reply 96):
Anyone thought about the possibility that maybe after he locked out the captain, set the AP to descent and waited a few moments to be sure the plane would hit ground in the next 5 minutes he took some knockout drops to seal his fate?

Even more speculation, I know. But it just crossed my mind as I was thinking about why there was zero response from the cockpit while normal breathing was heard on the CVR.

The general consensus right now is that if the copilot had knocked out, he wouldn't have been able to lock the pilot out of the cockpit.
 
LTC8K6
Posts: 1538
Joined: Fri Jun 05, 2009 8:36 pm

RE: Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 10

Thu Mar 26, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting MigPilot (Reply 96):
A person committing suicide often changes its mind in the last moments. Anyone thought about the possibility that maybe after he locked out the captain, set the AP to descent and waited a few moments to be sure the plane would hit ground in the next 5 minutes he took some knockout drops to seal his fate?

Yes, the idea has been posted a few times, including in this thread.  

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