Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 3): So he is not mentally ill then. |
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 3): Back to square one. |
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 3): Why does he crash the plane? |
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 2): It is time to put certain people, with lots of lives in their hands, into a special category, imo. Where it is less likely that a medical/mental problem can be concealed from their employer. |
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): We don't know. Focus says he bought 2 Audi cars last week, one for him, one for his girlfriend. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 8): Yes... Of course. Let's create a situation where a false diagnosis can end someone's career. Or even a legitimate one. Let's take away the rights and freedoms (and responsibilities) of individuals to be more 'safe'. Except guess what? It doesn't work that way. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): He woulld have taken LH to court and won. |
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): We don't know. Focus says he bought 2 Audi cars last week, one for him, one for his girlfriend. |
Quoting QF789 (Reply 14): That's interesting. There have been reports today that he and his girlfriend have recently broken up. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 12): a pilot cannot be allowed to simply ignore the medical situation as Lubitz did. |
Quoting 26point2 (Reply 4): It's probably been said before in this long thread but the terrorists win...again. |
Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6): I think it is time to let the people do their work and wait. |
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15): Even more interesting. German reports are coming out that the co-pilot may have recently converted to Islam. http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam.html The source is not prime material, but let's see where that goes. |
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15): Even more interesting. German reports are coming out that the co-pilot may have recently converted to Islam. http://speisa.com/modules/articles/i...airbus-was-a-convert-to-islam.html The source is not prime material, but let's see where that goes. |
Quoting seahawk (Reply 19): Fake. All reports were bad fakes. |
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15): Even more interesting. German reports are coming out that the co-pilot may have recently converted to Islam. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 12): So you'd be perfectly happy for a pilot to conceal a mental or physical issue that has an impact on his ability to perform his job, from his employer? |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 12): Just to remind you, his job is to safely transport hundreds of people from A to B, possibly multiple times a day. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 12): You reduce the chances of a false diagnosis by always having a second, independent opinion. If two doctors agree that a pilot is unfit for work (for whatever reason), then there must be a compulsion for the employer to be advised - a pilot cannot be allowed to simply ignore the medical situation as Lubitz did. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 8): Also let's not forget putting people under that level of scrutiny may CAUSE more/different problems. A far better way to deal with this is have companies that give a $hit about their employees and staff and create an environment where people feel supported, and comfortable that if they have an issue, they can take the time to deal with it and not end their career in the process. |
Quoting LTC8K6 (Reply 3): So he is not mentally ill then. |
Quoting Dreadnought (Reply 15): The source is not prime material, but let's see where that goes. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 22): Quoting osiris30 (Reply 8):Also let's not forget putting people under that level of scrutiny may CAUSE more/different problems. A far better way to deal with this is have companies that give a $hit about their employees and staff and create an environment where people feel supported, and comfortable that if they have an issue, they can take the time to deal with it and not end their career in the process. |
Quote: According to data from Flightradar24, a crowd-sourced provider of automatic dependent surveillance broadcast (ADS-B) tracking, the Germanwings co-pilot likely changed the altitude command for the Airbus’s autopilot system shortly after arriving at cruise altitude. After the captain left the cockpit, the co-pilot presumably dialed the autopilot system hold altitude down to 100 ft. Flightradar24 officials say it took two days to decode the ADS-B data, which is included in the transponder stream and had been sent to investigators in addition to being published online. |
Quoting PanHAM (Reply 10): A guy with a medical record at Lufthansa saying "needs regular psychological tests", with little flight hours in 18 months time and regular professional timeouts for psychological treatment, you're not putting that guy in full responsibility of a 70 tons airplane with 150 souls in the back, flying at 38000 feets at 850km/h, ALONE. I know that airline employees here won't agree to me but I don't care, I seriously think about not letting my family take any airplane in the next 18 months until all airlines optimized their pilot assessments, which will for sure happen now. Lufthansa made some very very big mistakes here. Alfons |
Quoting hivue (Reply 24): Significant clinical depression for an airline pilot will be career ending. No way giving a $hit about employees will sugarcoat that. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 28): If you're saying untreatable/managable/'curable' then sure, I agree. But where is the line and when does it cross that threshold. If you give people the hope they can deal with issues and then return to work eventually many more will actually get help. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 28): A lot of depression can be managed. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 28): but the way things are handled now, being unfit to fly in any major way for any length of time, results in pretty much never being able to fly again... that causes people to not get treatment and report. |
Quoting hivue (Reply 30): My point is that things will stay that way. I'm not saying it's right -- it's just the way things are. |
Quoting hivue (Reply 30): it's just the way things are. |
Quoting s5daw (Reply 29): |
Quoting AR385: Quoting Lizzie (Reply 128): I'm just warning that making depression trigger a lifetime ban on flying is going increase the risk of pilots with undiagnosed and untreated depression flying, not reduce it. There are certain jobs that people diagnosed with Clinical Depression, that are taking medication and receiving professional counseling should not be engaged in. Pilot is one of them. Sorry to disagree. A pilot with CD, and meds for it cannot be flying unless total disclosure is made mandatory and the airline has a program to accommodate such a pilot. |
Quoting AR385: 15% of those diagnosed with Clinical Depression will commit suicide. Of those diagnosed with their first episode of CD, their chances of having a second episode are 50% and once a second episode has ocurred, the chances of having a third episode are 70%. If this person already had what appears to be a major episode while in training, LH really screwed up here as regular monitoring should have been required and questions asked about wether he was fit to continue in their program. Somebody decided he was, today we see the results. And while yes, this is not typical, it´s a known risk. So the question may be, how much risk is the flying public willing to take when a person with a clearly, diagnosed mental illness is sitting up front? A condition that is known to have a suicide as one of its consequences in not a small percentage of those diagnosed with it. |
Quote: Now, maybe people here are confusing being a bit sad or going over a rough patch with Clinical Depression and that is a common mistake but they are not the same at all. I am talking about major, severe, clinical depression. |
Quoting AR385: Quoting Lizzie (Reply 184): and a blanket ban on anyone with a diagnosis of depression from flying a commercial aircraft would be a strong incentive to secrecy, as well as being ineffective. Again, I disagree. Piloting is not a profession where you want someone diagnosed with Clinical Depression to be in the cockpit, unless special provisions are in place. Such as constant monitoring, periodic and constant evaluations, flying simple routes during non-stressful hrs. |
Quoting AR385: The Captain of tha AF A340 that went off the runway at Toronto was under a similar regime by AF due to a "mental" situation and he was limited to flying only the "short" daytime transcons. CDG-ATL, CDG-ORD-, CDG-NYC were his normal routes. The mere fact that most depressed pilots are not going to crash their airplanes, while true, it´s no guarantee they won´t. As we´ve just seen. And I am sorry if this is not politically correct. |
Quoting scbriml (Reply 12): If two doctors agree that a pilot is unfit for work (for whatever reason), then there must be a compulsion for the employer to be advised - a pilot cannot be allowed to simply ignore the medical situation as Lubitz did. |
Quoting osiris30 (Reply 28): Even if you can't fly anymore, maybe there is still a place for you within the organization. |
Quoting pvjin (Reply 33): I guess some random person posted bunch of made up junk and the media took it for real, that's all. |
Quoting rolfen (Reply 25): Whatever the case, there is, in most cases, "warning signs" that one can dig up when looking at someone's past. People will say they should have heeded the warning, they should've known, but you know what they say, hindsight is 100/100. |
Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 41): I'm still dumfounded that one of the most admired airlines of the world (Lufthansa) has new hires in the right seat of an A320 with 630 hours total time, and 100 hours in-type. |
Quoting hivue (Reply 24): Significant clinical depression for an airline pilot will be career ending. No way giving a $hit about employees will sugarcoat that. |
Quoting Lizzie (Reply 34): that making depression trigger a lifetime ban on flying is going increase the risk of pilots with undiagnosed and untreated depression flying, not reduce it. |