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badgervor
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Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:44 pm

Not sure if this has been previously posted:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...-diversion-sues-airline?cmpid=yhoo

I guess I'm not surprised with how sue happy this country is..
 
alasizon
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:54 pm

Did he sign his release when it was printed for him? Typically the line above where the captain signs says that he is fit for duty and fit to complete said flight. Pretty sure that voids the lawsuit right there.
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OMP777X
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:58 pm

ThIs is very bizarre in my opinion. How obvious could the outward signs of his condition have been if his colleagues still felt comfortable enough to allow him to pilot a plane full of people? I'm not entirely surprised that he would sue, seeing as how he is out of a career and all, but the basis of his lawsuit seems a bit far fetched IMO. I'll be more surprised if he actually provides sufficient evidence to pin a good enough suit on JetBlue to win a settlement or a judgement in the end. I am glad that his scenario didn't end in the same way as the one with 4U9525.

Best,

OMP777X
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ikramerica
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:02 pm

He's suing for loss of livelihood as a pilot but it sounds as if whether or not the event had happened, the seizures would have started and he would have been deemed unfit for duty as a pilot going forward. He might have had a place in operations or training. So there is some merit to what he is saying, but not $14.5 million worth of merit.

If anything, the FAA should investigate the claims that he was clearly unfit for duty and allowed to fly if it as clear as he claims, and frankly, it sounds like at least he should have been pulled aside for suspicion of drugs/alcohol.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
Boeing744
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:09 pm

What I don't understand, however, is what he actually lost in this incident, and how JetBlue caused that loss.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
He's suing for loss of livelihood as a pilot but it sounds as if whether or not the event had happened, the seizures would have started and he would have been deemed unfit for duty as a pilot going forward. He might have had a place in operations or training. So there is some merit to what he is saying, but not $14.5 million worth of merit.

Exactly. JetBlue didn't give him the seizures.

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 1):
Did he sign his release when it was printed for him? Typically the line above where the captain signs says that he is fit for duty and fit to complete said flight. Pretty sure that voids the lawsuit right there.

Doesn't mean anything if he was impaired when he signed it.
 
silentbob
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting Alasizon (Reply 1):
Did he sign his release when it was printed for him? Typically the line above where the captain signs says that he is fit for duty and fit to complete said flight. Pretty sure that voids the lawsuit right there.

How can someone with degraded mental capacity (for whatever reason) be expected to make that decision?
 
alasizon
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 5):
Quoting Alasizon (Reply 1):
Did he sign his release when it was printed for him? Typically the line above where the captain signs says that he is fit for duty and fit to complete said flight. Pretty sure that voids the lawsuit right there.

How can someone with degraded mental capacity (for whatever reason) be expected to make that decision?

In no way am I stating that he was capable of making said decision, just saying that may just simply shut the lawsuit down.
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wjcandee
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:06 pm

The complaint isn't in PACER yet. I was hoping for some funny dinnertime reading.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:07 pm

Quoting Boeing744 (Reply 4):

His good name and job. He was arrested and put on trial. But his argument is that the airlines have safeguards in place to catch someone who seems "not right" and B6 ignored what he claims were obvious red flags and because of his seizure he couldn't self-report. That's why I said the FAA might want to investigate the claims.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:34 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 5):
Quoting Alasizon (Reply 1):Did he sign his release when it was printed for him? Typically the line above where the captain signs says that he is fit for duty and fit to complete said flight. Pretty sure that voids the lawsuit right there.
How can someone with degraded mental capacity (for whatever reason) be expected to make that decision?

Then at what point and at whose discretion would the pilot be declared unfit for duty? When is the company reasonably expected to conduct a fit-for-duty assessment?

At my company, fit-for-duty assessments are performed by Employee Medical Relations in conjunction with medical and/or neurological and psychological professionals, but only when the employee clearly exhibits behavior that would require it. An airport CSA cannot declare a pilot unfit for duty, nor can any single member of the cabin or flight deck crew. They can and should report their concerns to management or refuse to fly with that individual if they fear safety is being jeopardized.

It's likely that what the lawsuit states were "behavioral changes" exhibited by the PIC were so subtle that they would not be noticed or cause concern among most people, and probably not rising to the level of refusing to fly with him based on it.

Much like the Germanwings F/O; had any member of the crew felt he was a danger to himself or others, they'd have not let that aircraft off the ground.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
wjcandee
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:55 pm

One summary of the complaint says that the complaint claims that the captain himself realized that he wasn't fit for duty when he failed to respond to ATC twice and the FO brought that to his attention. It claims that at that point, he told the FO that he wasn't fit for duty and relieved himself of duty. In midair. I don't remember seeing that in the FO's summary or anywhere up until now. I wonder how much of the CVR was retained and whether it encompassed this period. I suspect that if this had been the case, the deadheading B6 pilot would have been called to the cockpit to assist in flying, rather than to assist in keeping the captain out of the cockpit.

I am also interested that his criminal defense lawyers initially blamed his condition on "lack of sleep". Guess they found an expert who was happy to make a causal connection between a childhood injury and this eruption, something that I am fairly confident is like lower back pain: totally unprovable or disprovable.

I'm pretty sure that there are consequences for an FO who calls the cops on a hungover pilot, as long as his BAC is now negligible, so I think it was actually an act of courage for the FO to take the action he did, even if he arguably could have done it sooner.

"They had seen him at work before and he was different then," so now he must clearly be unfit to fly and a danger to himself and others? Apply that standard, and a large percentage of flights won't be taking off today.
 
ikramerica
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:00 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):

MRI and EEG can reveal brain damage and seizure activity. Maybe it simply wasn't done during criminal defense because it isn't necessary for "mental defect" affirmative defense. But wouldn't you want to find out what was wrong ?
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
werdywerd
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:05 am

This is a simple "money grab"

- Ex-Pilot's lawyer has probably been mulling over how to sue JetBlue over this whole thing for a while.
- German Wings goes down and it is found that the co-pilot was at fault
- Lawyer gets super excited that he can somehow use this and calls the ex-pilot
- They hatch up a scheme to sue JetBlue for nonsense knowing that they don't have a case. What they do have is publicity at a time that a plane just crashed due to a most likely un-stable or mentally ill pilot.
- Lawsuit basically says "hey same thing could have happened with this JetBlue flight... this pilot could have done the same thing and it would have been all JetBlue's fault!
- Hoping that JetBlue doesn't want this negative publicity and pays out $$$ a settlement ASAP is all this is about.

Just my opinion.
 
Prost
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 2:58 am

I must say the timing is....suspect.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:04 am

Another "Only in 'Murica"  
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lightsaber
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:31 am

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 3):
He's suing for loss of livelihood as a pilot but it sounds as if whether or not the event had happened, the seizures would have started and he would have been deemed unfit for duty as a pilot going forward.

Sounds like a 'hail Mary' lawsuit. I hope B6 fights it rigorously.

Quoting Prost (Reply 13):

I must say the timing is....suspect.

The problem for the ex-pilot is that it won't go to court for a long time. By then, he'll still be unemployed.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 14):
Another "Only in 'Murica"

Sigh... I wish that wasn't true.

Lightsaber
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ASFlyer
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:44 am

We work in a weird job. We work with people all the time that we've never seen before. I don't know if someones behavior is typical for them or not if I've never seen them before. Obviously, if someones behavior was erratic I would address it but if there were only subtle hints how would anyone know? Showing up for work in a disheveled uniform. Has anyone looked at flight crews in the U.S. anytime recently? This isn't all that odd. Odd behavior isn't necessarily alarming - even weird people work. Just because someones behavior is odd doesn't mean they are worthy of a psych evaluation. To a point. If I remember correctly, this pilots behavior really started unraveling in the air, during their flight. Prior to that, how could anyone be expected to know that they weren't behaving normally. This is a money grab by someone that is out of a job and has no job prospects in the field they've been trained in.
 
silentbob
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):
Then at what point and at whose discretion would the pilot be declared unfit for duty? When is the company reasonably expected to conduct a fit-for-duty assessment?

I've refused to fly with people when I wasn't comfortable with their behavior. The other pilot or flight attendants on that plane could have done the same thing.
 
N1120A
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 4:42 pm

Quoting badgervor (Thread starter):
I guess I'm not surprised with how sue happy this country is..

It is shocking how little non-lawyers actually understand about the justice system.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:21 pm

The timing of this lawsuit is unusual, at best.

Virtually every pilot I know carries "Loss of License" insurance that would cover his supposed loss of income. I have had many say that you never know when you go in for a physical that they are not going to find an anomaly on the EKG or some other issue that can cause you to be grounded. It is smart to protect yourself and your family from this happening.
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ltbewr
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:49 pm

The may be a case here against JetBlue. If he, as claimed, missed a pre-flight briefing, looked 'disheveled' or acting weird, that perhaps JetBlue supervisors or his co-pilot at JFK should not have him do that flight. I am quite sure supervisors or co-crew members will or should note if a pilot or any other crew member when they report for duty for a flight, may not be fit, including if intoxicated, for example, reported to their supervisors and not fly.

Don't forget too the JetBlue will 'laywer up', do some intensive discovery including seeking all possible medical, pharmacy and mental health records, him seeing several doctors and other medical professionals selected by JetBlue's counsel, depositions, thorough background checks including any social media postings as well as deposing any witnesses, co-workers, supervisors and the Plaintiff's experts. Of course, he and his lawyers are looking for a lottery jackpot and as others noted, JetBlue is likely file motions to dismiss the case as want to keep this from a public court trial and in the end likely settle.
 
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EA CO AS
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 17):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 9):Then at what point and at whose discretion would the pilot be declared unfit for duty? When is the company reasonably expected to conduct a fit-for-duty assessment?
I've refused to fly with people when I wasn't comfortable with their behavior. The other pilot or flight attendants on that plane could have done the same thing.

I pointed out previously that this would be the only remedy for frontline (including flight deck and cabin crew) employees; while you can say you won't fly with someone, you cannot declare them unfit for duty.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
nws2002
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RE: Former JetBlue Pilot Sues Former Employer

Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 10):
"They had seen him at work before and he was different then," so now he must clearly be unfit to fly and a danger to himself and others? Apply that standard, and a large percentage of flights won't be taking off today.
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 16):
We work in a weird job. We work with people all the time that we've never seen before. I don't know if someones behavior is typical for them or not if I've never seen them before.

Exactly. I've had many trips where a fellow crewmember arrived disheveled because they were commuting in to base and their flight was late. Maybe they are acting quieter than normal because of a personal issue, or they are stressed because of a divorce or tight finances. All that would also only encompass the people I actually know. It is very typical to fly with a complete crew of people you have never met or worked with before. While their behavior may be a bit off, you don't know if that is the baseline for them or not. Some people are great at their job but just quirky.

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