jkenworthy
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Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:12 pm

Just had a look on the Airbus website and it is still "advertising" the Airbus A340.

Is this aircraft still available for Order/Delivery?

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/passengeraircraft/a340family/
 
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Miami
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:14 pm

Nope. Production ended in 2011
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SKY1
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:16 pm

No, the A-340 is not longer available for order. The last one was delivered to IB in 2010. Here you're the thread: Last A340 600 Delivered By Airbus To Iberia (by corernagh14 Jul 17 2010 in Civil Aviation)
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Miami
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:18 pm

Last one ever built was for Iberia (EC-LFS) A340-600.


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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:20 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 1):
Nope. Production ended in 2011
Quoting SKY1 (Reply 2):
The last one was delivered to IB in 2010

The particular aircraft is EC-LFS, I believe.

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[Edited 2015-03-27 15:21:04]
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mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:21 pm

Airbus has used ones for sale.
 
karadion
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:22 pm

Production may have ended but Airbus certainly does have a stock of them (25?) laying around which I only assume is why the page still exists. "For only $19.95, this can be yours now! Call now and get yours today!". Anyways I noticed some of the planes are Emirates planes.
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:27 pm

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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting jkenworthy (Thread starter):
Is this aircraft still available for Order/Delivery?

The website airbus.com is not really meant for customers, it's meant for the general public. So you will find information about out of production aircraft because they are still in service.
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Motorhussy
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:31 pm

Off the same production line comes the A330 no? Which is now meeting and exceeding most of the previously A340 and 77E targets.
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karadion
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:38 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):

Boeing still "advertises" the 707!

Under "Out-of-Production Models"
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 10:43 pm

Just had this topic...
Airbus Refusing To Cede The A340 As Defunct? (by LAX772LR Jan 26 2015 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2015-03-27 15:44:15]
 
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HELyes
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Fri Mar 27, 2015 11:19 pm

The VIP version M-IABU was the very last A340-300 delivered in 2009, after AY received 4 aircraft in 2007-2008, right?


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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting Karadion (Reply 6):
"For only $19.95, this can be yours now! Call now and get yours today!"

There should be asterisk next to $19.95.

"For only 19.95*..."

*One Million Easy Payments 
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Aesma
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 5:56 am

I had an Airbus engineer at my table the other day and we talked about this, he confirmed that A340 production is now impossible.
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:06 am

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
I had an Airbus engineer at my table the other day and we talked about this, he confirmed that A340 production is now impossible.

In what way? The A330ceo and A340 share a common wing, fuselage, tail, cockpit. I don't deny that it's true what he says, but what's making it impossible?
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LAX772LR
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:26 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 15):
I don't deny that it's true what he says, but what's making it impossible?

Same reason that Boeing doesn't want to do 772As, 773As, and (arguably) 772ERs anymore-- because while they do share overwhelming commonality with each other, there are still some unique parts/structures/systems unique to them and different from the 77L/77W (or in Airbus' case, the A330s), sufficient that the OEM would rather end production/shipment/assembly of them and write off those aspects.

Also, every one of those such models tying up the line, is a space that could've otherwise gone toward the production of a more lucrative and higher yielding A330/777.

Lastly, in Airbus' case, getting rid of the A340 allowed them to start optimizing the shared wing in favor of the A330. The A330NEO won't have several systems in the wing that were previously devoted to engines #3 and 4 on the quad, and IINM, the new HGW birds that DL is taking delivery of, won't have them either.
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DocLightning
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting HELyes (Reply 12):
The VIP version M-IABU was the very last A340-300 delivered in 2009

One of my private jets will be an A340. I'll also have an MD-11 and a 744. And a 787 for when I get bored with them.  

The page is an informational page about the A340 and also probably aims to create buzz around the model to possibly do what little it can to boost residual value.

It would be far stranger if Airbus simply didn't have any information about the A340.
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
One of my private jets will be an A340. I'll also have an MD-11 and a 744. And a 787 for when I get bored with them.  

No, no! Those are good, but you want more pizzazz than that!

A DC-7 (in a CO livery), a 737-800 (loaded, of course, Scimitars, WiFi, leather, the whole 9 yards  ), a G650 (perhaps painted in something a ledgendary as M-USIK), and if I'm board, I'll fly something bizarre...like a Cri-Cri   

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 16):
Same reason that Boeing doesn't want to do 772As, 773As, and (arguably) 772ERs anymore-- because while they do share overwhelming commonality with each other, there are still some unique parts/structures/systems unique to them and different from the 77L/77W (or in Airbus' case, the A330s), sufficient that the OEM would rather end production/shipment/assembly of them and write off those aspects.

Also, every one of those such models tying up the line, is a space that could've otherwise gone toward the production of a more lucrative and higher yielding A330/777.

Lastly, in Airbus' case, getting rid of the A340 allowed them to start optimizing the shared wing in favor of the A330. The A330NEO won't have several systems in the wing that were previously devoted to engines #3 and 4 on the quad, and IINM, the new HGW birds that DL is taking delivery of, won't have them either.

Fair enough. Certainly the wings will have far less business in there.

Weight wise, what's the difference of an A330-300HGW as opposed to, say, an A340-300?
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n1786b
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
The website airbus.com is not really meant for customers, it's meant for the general public. So you will find information about out of production aircraft because they are still in service.
Quoting scbriml (Reply 7):
Boeing still "advertises" the 707!

Well, the 707 is listed as an out of production aircraft on the Boeing site (check out the Menu on the left). And on Airbus' site, the only out of production aircraft "families" are the A300-600, A300-600F and 310.

http://www.airbus.com/aircraftfamilies/out-of-production/

So as long as they keep the A330 in production, the A330/340 "family" will still be considered in production on their site I suppose...

Correct me if I am wrong, but couldn't we consider the A300-600, -600F and A310 a single "family"?   
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 9:34 am

I fully agree that it is very unlikely to see a new build A340 ever again. But to declare it as impossible one should follow it with arguments. Regarding the wing, I assumed the A330MRTT was using the A340-200/300 wing, using the outer engine attach points and Fuel supply for the refuelling pods. But anyway what should stop the ability to produce a pair of A340-200/300 wings?

So I could believe that it would be impossible to produce the A340-500/600, but the A330 and the A340-200/300 are that similar, that to my believe they could produce a A340-200/300 while the A330 line is running. Same fuselage, same wingbox and largely same wing.
 
mwhcvt
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:45 pm

Strickly speaking it should be possible if some airline really wanted it, as I'm fairly sure the A330 MRTT actually is an A330 with and A340 wing making use of the additional engine mounting points to mount the hose based fuel delivery systems on each wing..
Must think up a new one soon, slow moving brain trying to get into gear ;)
 
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anfromme
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:47 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
I had an Airbus engineer at my table the other day and we talked about this, he confirmed that A340 production is now impossible.

  

Airbus did indeed announce "completion" (their term) of A340 production in November 2011.
http://www.airbus.com/presscentre/pr...chapter-in-the-a340-success-story/

Quote:
Twenty years after its maiden flight, Airbus has completed production for the A340 jetliner, reflecting changing market dynamics. While new aircraft are no longer to be built, Airbus will continue to fully support the current global fleet of A340s

Note that this was almost 1 1/2 years after the last A340, the previously mentioned EC-LFS, was delivered to Iberia.

Quoting n1786b (Reply 19):
So as long as they keep the A330 in production, the A330/340 "family" will still be considered in production on their site I suppose...

I'd say so - I'd also expect them to keep the A340 on their site while they're still trying to place second hand A340s. Airbus Asset Management currently lists 25 A340s as available (13x A343, 11x A345, 1x A346).
http://www.airbus.com/company/market/asset/aircraft-available/
Most of the A345s are ex-EK, and the A346 is ex-VS.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 20):
I fully agree that it is very unlikely to see a new build A340 ever again. But to declare it as impossible one should follow it with arguments.

They've changed the assembly line and production process to remove all the A340-specific elements. It's of course technically possible to put these back in, but it really wouldn't make any sense commercially.
42
 
doulasc
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 1:25 pm

Basically the A340 is a A330 with 2 more engines
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 22):
They've changed the assembly line and production process to remove all the A340-specific elements. It's of course technically possible to put these back in, but it really wouldn't make any sense commercially.


How? Could you get more concrete? What was changed? In what way could Airbus not any longer produce the A340-200/300?
It is possible that they got rid of the tools in regard to the A340-500/600, but the A340-200/300? Again same fuselage as the A330. Same wingbox. If a A330MRTT is produced the wing is at least different to the standard A330 and according to my information a A340-200/300 wing. What have they done that a A340-200/300 wing would not fit the tools any longer or could not be produced anylonger?
The differences are so slight that IMO there would be only slight problems to do a A340-200/300.

But still I agree it is very unlikely that Airbus will ever produce a 340 again
 
lowbank
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 3:41 pm

Just to add, at the end of last year we scrapped all the in wip and stock material to make Trent 500 fan blades. Tooling has also been scrapped. Not even making any spares from now on.
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hamster
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:18 pm

There were tremendously inefficient. Unless you are talking a really large aircraft, four holers are probably done for good.
 
Ferroviarius
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 7:48 pm

Good evening,

I think we cannot exlude that, given that there are quite a number of 343s and some 342s around and active, a re-engining program with P&Ws GTF could be started. The GTFs thrust is slightly smaller than the currently newest version of CFM56s installed on these frames, but the GTF also appears to be less heavy than the currently installed engines, if I interpret P&W's web page information on this issue corretly.

This would extend the range of the 343s to something like 15.000kms - 16.000kms - or increase the max. load by the resp. factor - at the same quantity of fuel.

Best wishes,

Ferroviarius
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 22):
I'd say so - I'd also expect them to keep the A340 on their site while they're still trying to place second hand A340s.

      Airbus has been trying very hard to maintain the secondary market for the A340. This is partly because it sold some A340s with resale guarantees which, rumor has it, are now underwater, and partly because it occasionally makes A330/A350/A380 deals where it takes A340s back. (That's why it has 25 A340s in inventory right now.) Treating the A340 as an up-to-date product on the website is a small part of that effort.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 24):
Could you get more concrete?

When A340 production stopped, Airbus modified the wing of the A330 to reduce weight and to facilitate higher A330 MTOW options. The production process is now oriented around that new wing. Also, there are a variety of A340-specific systems parts that are no longer produced.

Quoting Ferroviarius (Reply 27):
a re-engining program with P&Ws GTF could be started.

I expect Airbus would rather that P&W used their production capacity to make engines for the A320neo. P&W will be pumping out GTFs as fast as it can for new frames.

The result of an A340-300 re-engining also wouldn't be ideal for airlines. You'd be in a A340-600 situation -- the frame would be incredibly capable, but heavy enough to have trouble competing with the 787 and A330 on anything short of ULH routes.
 
starrymarkb
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:48 pm

Quoting hamster (Reply 26):
There were tremendously inefficient. Unless you are talking a really large aircraft, four holers are probably done for good.

Actually the A340 still is pretty efficient, the A343 is close to the 772, the problem was the 773ER beat all expectations (even Boeings) and the A333 improvements have squeezed it from below.
 
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Boeing778X
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 29):
the problem was the 773ER beat all expectations (even Boeings) and the A333 improvements have squeezed it from below.

It'll be interesting to see how the A350-1000 performs against the 777-300ER.

The 77W really did exceed expectations.
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mercure1
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:56 pm

Airbus stopped marketing the A340 itself almost 10-years ago.

There was a time when it happily presented clients a picture of a complimentary family of aircraft models with the A330-A340 combo.
But shortly after the A330 largely matched A340 range and client needs, that sales pitch ended and Airbus focused fully on marketing the A330 series.
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DocLightning
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting mwhcvt (Reply 21):

Strickly speaking it should be possible if some airline really wanted it,

RR no longer makes the Trent 500, so that would be highly impractical. And they can't just start making it again because they've destroyed the tooling for the fan blades, so if they re-made the tooling and updated the production process they'd have to recertify the engine, which would make it prohibitively costly unless somehow there were a market for several hundred new A345/6 airframes.

Quoting doulasc (Reply 23):
Basically the A340 is a A330 with 2 more engines

And a center MLG.

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 29):
the A343 is close to the 772

Do you have numbers? I can't find any good ones. All the numbers I have are provided by Boeing showing that the 772 is 11% more efficient per ASM (on fuel costs) than the A343. Needless to say, I expect that Boeing would provide perfectly objective and trustworthy numbers about their own products vs. their competitor's.  
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KarelXWB
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting doulasc (Reply 23):
Basically the A340 is a A330 with 2 more engines
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 32):
And a center MLG.

The fuel system is different too.
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ADent
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 10:40 pm

Typically a 4 engine wing can be made weaker than a 2 engine wing - at the inner wing you can subtract out the weight of the outboard engines.

Of course you have to make sure the wing is strong enough to hold the engines and their loads (see Electra whirl mode) and turbulence loads and such - so maybe it is a wash in the real world.
 
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Aesma
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:43 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 15):
In what way? The A330ceo and A340 share a common wing, fuselage, tail, cockpit. I don't deny that it's true what he says, but what's making it impossible?
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 20):
But to declare it as impossible one should follow it with arguments.
Quoting anfromme (Reply 22):
They've changed the assembly line and production process to remove all the A340-specific elements. It's of course technically possible to put these back in, but it really wouldn't make any sense commercially.
Quoting Lowbank (Reply 25):
Just to add, at the end of last year we scrapped all the in wip and stock material to make Trent 500 fan blades. Tooling has also been scrapped. Not even making any spares from now on.

To add to those answers, just like RR, the other suppliers of A340 specific parts also built a spare inventory then shut down production.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 18):
Weight wise, what's the difference of an A330-300HGW as opposed to, say, an A340-300?

Highest A333 MTOW currently available is 242T, whereas A343s went into the 270s and up.

I doubt you'll see the A330 go beyond 250T or so... in part because they'd likely need to add the center gear (which could have regulatory implications in its own right) and in part because it'd just step further onto the A350's toes.


Quoting hamster (Reply 26):
There were tremendously inefficient.

Not really... the A340s were remarkably efficient, and could fly circles around the M11s/747s of the past 20yrs.

The problem was that the 777 was just *that* much better. Boeing hit a homer with the 772ER, and they hit it clear outta the ballpark with the 773ER. That was a 1-2 punch that the A340 just couldn't contend with.

Then, having its own little brother (i.e. A330) become such a transoceanic powerhouse in its own right, was strike-3: the A340 was out.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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anfromme
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:14 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 24):
What have they done that a A340-200/300 wing would not fit the tools any longer or could not be produced anylonger? The differences are so slight that IMO there would be only slight problems to do a A340-200/300.

I never said it's impossible - Airbus and RR could recreate the tooling they've already destroyed, but there's obviously cost associated with it. Which makes the whole endeavour economically prohibitive.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 31):
Airbus stopped marketing the A340 itself almost 10-years ago

As a new-built plane, possibly, but they haven't stopped marketing it as a used plane - and (together with RR) are quite active in that regard, even holding conferences dedicated to the future of the A340:
http://leehamnews.com/2013/12/08/air...ems-make-the-case-for-a340-future/
42
 
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scbriml
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:50 am

Quoting hamster (Reply 26):
There were tremendously inefficient.

I'm afraid it's an a.net myth that the A340 series were fuel-hogs.

Quoting starrymarkb (Reply 29):
Actually the A340 still is pretty efficient

   The much-maligned A340-600 offered better payload-range than the 744 at lower fuel burn. Unfortunately for Airbus, Boeing hit it out of the park with the 77W and the A340 could no longer compete.
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mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 37):
I never said it's impossible - Airbus and RR could recreate the tooling they've already destroyed, but there's obviously cost associated with it. Which makes the whole endeavour economically prohibitive.

What tooling regarding the A340-200/300 was destroyed? And if RR has stopped producing Trent 500 that is in regard to the -500/600 only.
 
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anfromme
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 39):
And if RR has stopped producing Trent 500 that is in regard to the -500/600 only.

In an earlier draft I actually pointed out excplicitly that this would of course only affect the -500/-600, while the -200/-300's CFM engines should still be produceable, considering they're just a minor variant of the same engine family the A320ceo and 737NG use. I left that out because bringing back the -200/-300 seems like an even more outlandish idea than bringing back the -500/-600. The -200 never really sold in numbers to begin with (first delivery 02/97, last delivery 11/98), and the -300 stopped selling about two years before the -500/-600 did.

As for "what tooling was destroyed" - with regard to RR, the tooling for the engine blades at the very least, as per user Lowbank. With regard to Airbus, I don't have any specifics, but user kanban in the recent other A340 thread gave a good summary of inventory management/retention, which applies not just to Airbus:

Quote:
When a model is either withdrawn or substantial upgraded with modifications, the old tooling which takes up valuable production space is reviewed for future use.. those tools needed for manufacture of spares and a few AOG prone items are flagged and stored. Those tools that have no spares or AOG use are first disassembled, mothballed and after a reasonable time scrapped.
42
 
mjoelnir
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting anfromme (Reply 40):

So all the time we have talked past each other. I took exception of the sweeping statement that the destruction of tooling would prohibitant production of any type of A340. I always talked that it would be no big problem to produce a few A340-200/300 if ever needed. I agreed that it was very unlikely that any A340 would ever be produced again.

If your statement was regarding the A340-500/600 than you should say so.
 
lowbank
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RE: Airbus A340 Production

Wed Apr 01, 2015 6:25 pm

We do a process called life of type.
This looks at what the future requirement will be and then have say 5000 forgings made and then destroy the tooling. This has been done on the T500 so all the tooling can be disposed of. The T500 would cost way to much to recreate.
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