WN Growth Potential At BOS

cessna53996 · Sat Mar 28, 2015 11:28 pm

Right now WN offers flights to CAK, ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, TYS, & STL with service to CMH, DAL, & IND starting over the summer. Also, starting this Wednesday WN moves to Terminal A gates 18-22.

With that said, what is the growth potential for WN at BOS? Will the airline go against B6 on a few Florida routes like FLL, RSW, MCO, PBI, & TPA or will they serve some additional markets that B6 doesn't currently serve from BOS?

dsuairptman · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:10 am

FYI, WN does not serve TYS.

On the topic of BOS growth does anyone think they may compete head to head with JB on the BOS-LAS route? Do you think they might try BOS-PHX?

Do the 73NGs have the range to do BOS-SFO/OAK?

runningonempty · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:21 am

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
does anyone think they may compete head to head with JB on the BOS-LAS route? Do you think they might try BOS-PHX?

I think that is quite likely for them to go west, as opposed to south. LAS, PHX, and even SEA seem possible. They are much more likely than TPA, MCO, FLL...

IMHO, I think that HQ isn't too interested in big growth at BOS. They seem to be a tad more sporadic than concentrated growth. If there was one area that could see "growth" in the WN network, it'd be Texas.

adamh8297 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:51 am

Flew B6 BOS-SXM today. Only saw 1 WN plane the whole time from 10-11am looking at terminal E from C.

I think BOS-FLL is inevitable if they increase Latam/Caribbean ops in FLL.

Depending on plane utilization needs I could see WN trying weekly CUN/AUA/PUJ from BOS

barney captain · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:10 am

Quoting runningonempty (Reply 2):
I think that is quite likely for them to go west, as opposed to south.

Or maybe east.

IMO, this could be the main focus of BOS.

We shall see.

SCL767 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
I think BOS-FLL is inevitable if they increase Latam/Caribbean ops in FLL.

Yep. On another note FLL-LIM might be WN's first route to South America.

iowaman · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
With that said, what is the growth potential for WN at BOS? Will the airline go against B6 on a few Florida routes like FLL, RSW, MCO, PBI, & TPA or will they serve some additional markets that B6 doesn't currently serve from BOS?

It makes sense to me to connect MCO, TPA, and FLL with BOS eventually even if they only have a piece of the market. MCO and TPA in particular have a good WN following.

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
Do the 73NGs have the range to do BOS-SFO/OAK?

Yes, although in the winter time a -700 is probably better suited for the route due to headwinds. I would expect BOS-OAK over BOS-SFO but I would be surprised to see that come to be. There are a few WN transcon routes out there such as LAX-BWI, SEA-BWI, OAK-BWI. These all have focus cities on one end or both ends.

Quoting runningonempty (Reply 2):
I think that is quite likely for them to go west, as opposed to south. LAS, PHX, and even SEA seem possible. They are much more likely than TPA, MCO, FLL...

I would be relatively surprised to see BOS-SEA. BOS-LAS or PHX could happen eventually, but I doubt it is a high priority now. LAS and PHX have the customer following where as SEA not as much. These are long routes (by Southwest standards) tieing up aircraft and are already served by other airlines.

Quoting runningonempty (Reply 2):
IMHO, I think that HQ isn't too interested in big growth at BOS.

Probably not too large as they have already added most of the key focus cities from BOS in the Midwest and east coast. It is worth noting they are adding IND-BOS and DAL-BOS. CMH-BOS is the result of a revenue guarantee.

N1120A · Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:53 am

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
Do the 73NGs have the range to do BOS-SFO/OAK?

This is a question? They have only been doing such flights for a decade or more. Every 737NG has the range to do that flight, with only the 739ER having potential difficulty during certain times of year.

barney captain · Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:09 am

3500nm range from BOS (purported effective range of the MAX-8)

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=&R=3500nm...%0a&MS=wls&MR=1800&MX=720x360&PM=*

allegiantflyer · Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:38 am

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
Do you think they might try BOS-PHX?

Interesting you pointed this out, but I'm surprised nobody has said the following already: PHX-BOS was actually done a couple years ago. Unfortunately the route didnt last so long...maybe 8 months I recall? not sure but WN definitely was the looser to B6 and US on this one.

Quoting barney captain (Reply 4):
Or maybe east

when it comes to "going east" im positive WN is more focused on BWI,WN just doesn't have any massive connection opportunities in Boston or a significant FF base. and the thought of Europe is still pretty far down the road so lets not all get ahead of ourselfs here.

RL757PVD · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:24 pm

WN goes where B6 does not, and any fueler of growth is going to be an attempt to restrain B6 growth at BOS, That's their #1 objective.

For BOS Based business travelers, the only think that WN really offers the market that B6 doesnt is ATL, and those travelers will use DL. I cant imagine its a very lucrative position for WN, however in their eyes necessary to keep their fellow LCC competitor in check.

If WN really wanted to grow and invest in the local BOS market, they would have more of a Florida presence than the seasonal FL holdovers.

georgiabill · Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:34 pm

I am hoping they might give BOS-PHX another try perhaps starting off as seasonal service during the winter. With B6 flying BOS-CLE, WN might try BOS- MSP before B6 considers operating the route..
With 5 gates how many flights a day can they operate daily?

adamh8297 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):

I would consider STL, MCI, IND, and CMH business markets.

ipodguy7 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
Right now WN offers flights to CAK, ATL, BWI, MDW, DEN, HOU, MCI, MKE, TYS, & STL with service to CMH, DAL, & IND starting over the summer. Also, starting this Wednesday WN moves to Terminal A gates 18-22.

With that said, what is the growth potential for WN at BOS? Will the airline go against B6 on a few Florida routes like FLL, RSW, MCO, PBI, & TPA or will they serve some additional markets that B6 doesn't currently serve from BOS?

You're missing BNA, WN launched BNA-BOS about a year ago IIRC. I believe its double-daily now.

MaverickM11 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
It makes sense to me to connect MCO, TPA, and FLL with BOS eventually even if they only have a piece of the market. MCO and TPA in particular have a good WN following.

WN can't compete against B6 from the Northeast to Florida.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
WN goes where B6 does not, and any fueler of growth is going to be an attempt to restrain B6 growth at BOS, That's their #1 objective.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
If WN really wanted to grow and invest in the local BOS market, they would have more of a Florida presence than the seasonal FL holdovers.

rtalk25 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:18 pm

One opportunity might be BOS-AUS at 1x daily but timed for Texas travelers heading up to BOS, unlike B6's flight. Presumably DAL and HOU pax could choose DAL/HOU-AUS-BOS with the AUS-BOS flight leaving still in the morning before 9am Central.

rtalk25 · Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting georgiabill (Reply 11):

It'd be strange for WN to offer BOS-MSP before even BWI-MSP, but it wouldnt surprise me either if WN added it. I think BOS-SEA would be very surprising given the long stage length, no hub on either side and WN not a top carrier at either side. As far as transcons go, I was hoping for WN to re-add LAX-PHL given its large size at LAX and limited competition (since VX left) but that route would also have no connecting hub (or good connections) on either side.

I was thinking at some point a B6 route would be challenged, like possibly WN adding BOS-AUS 1x daily (as mentioned above), or BOS-DCA maybe at 3x daily since WAS is BOS's largest market and demand swells in the summer. BOS-Florida could be popular as well although it might dilute it's own MHT-Florida.

[Edited 2015-03-29 16:43:35]

tomaheath · Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:14 am

First off I'm all for more flights from MHT so my opinions will be more positive toward Manchester. So what I have gathered is that ever since LCCs came to Boston Manchester and Providence have lost flights. So with literally bus loads of people from NH VT and ME going to Boston to catch these cheap flights I'm guessing mostly from Jetblue wouldn't Southwest benefit from adding flights at MHT to catch these people traveling to Boston to fly on another airline?

tomaheath · Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:15 am

I would think the same holds to for Green in RI.

RL757PVD · Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:46 am

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 12):
I would consider STL, MCI, IND, and CMH business markets.

As I had mentioned

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
is going to be an attempt to restrain B6 growth at BOS, That's their #1 objective.

Those are all the "next tier" of places B6 would want to serve from BOS... esp STL, which is why it was one of WN's first BOS routes.

WN knows they cant beat B6 at BOS, heck their DAL flight is only a 1x midday turn, that should be pretty telling right there.

Cubsrule · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:07 am

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 13):
You're missing BNA, WN launched BNA-BOS about a year ago IIRC. I believe its double-daily now.

Well more than a year ago, actually. I flew it in September, 2013, and it wasn't terribly new then.

frostyj · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:23 am

They could go to Ireland and Iceland easily but that probably won't happen. I would say that routes will be focusing on Florida, perhaps they could launch a route to Bermuda; no one seems to focus on there.

I think that this could be a good entry point to Canada.

TWA772LR · Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:59 am

Just throwing this out there, didn't/doesn't WN have an interline/codeshare agreement with FI?

wnflyguy · Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:58 am

BOS new gates for WN add in HUGE flexibility from a scheduling stand point. The soon to be old E gates had Hugh restraints because of the tight space and hold waiting for A aircraft to push off a gate . The new gates give a smoother aircraft flow in and out of the new gates.

Flyguy

chrisnh · Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:56 pm

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 17):
First off I'm all for more flights from MHT so my opinions will be more positive toward Manchester. So what I have gathered is that ever since LCCs came to Boston Manchester and Providence have lost flights. So with literally bus loads of people from NH VT and ME going to Boston to catch these cheap flights I'm guessing mostly from Jetblue wouldn't Southwest benefit from adding flights at MHT to catch these people traveling to Boston to fly on another airline?

I was a MHT advocate myself, but these days it's like pushing a rock uphill. Happily, I did an awful lot of business flying pre-2005...which was the high-water mark for MHT. It's been downhill ever since. As a business traveler, we need more options than the airlines give us at MHT (well, the ones not named WN, anyway). These days, I happily use BOS because the bus service is so good. My only flights out of MHT are BWI ones, where I'll be heading on April 20th for a week. Aside from that route and certain ones to Florida, I'm inclined to favor BOS.

The paradox is that while 'MHT' really is 'BOS' to an airline, it really is a good market unto itself. The people are there, the income levels are there, the road infrastructure is, too. It's a good demographic. Is it good enough to support more than we have there? I'd say no. Which is OK. I get it. Long gone are the days where I'd pine and moan for MHT to 'rebound.' I care about going to places using nice planes and convenient schedules. And if that means BOS, so be it. MHT officials probably don't like hearing people like me say that, but tough nuggets. They haven't done anything to sway me.

jetbluefan1 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
Will the airline go against B6 on a few Florida routes like FLL, RSW, MCO, PBI, & TPA

I don't think WN wants to pick a battle with B6 in markets where B6 clearly dominates. There is no way WN could command a revenue premium over B6 on any of these routes, especially given B6's strong following on both ends.

The only one I could see is BOS-FLL, when (or if) WN decides to expand internationally from FLL.

If anything, I'd expect DL to enter or expand BOS-Florida as retaliation if/when B6 enters MSP/ATL.

Quoting cessna53996 (Thread starter):
will they serve some additional markets that B6 doesn't currently serve from BOS?

That seems to be the route WN is going, with IND and CMH recently being added. Makes more sense to have a monopoly on a route rather than challenge B6, which has already dropped yields and stimulated demand in the markets it serves.

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
does anyone think they may compete head to head with JB on the BOS-LAS route?

No, especially not with now VX on the route. Given that LAS hasn't been added already, it's hard to see it being added now (unless oil prices remain suppressed for a long period of time).

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
Do you think they might try BOS-PHX?

As noted above, this was tried before. B6 entered the market at around the same time, and there just isn't enough profitable demand to fill these flights alongist AA, the third competitor. Even to this day, I doubt the route is profitable for B6. PHX is incredibly low yielding.

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 1):
Do the 73NGs have the range to do BOS-SFO/OAK?

I believe so. But WN wouldn't stand a chance on either of these routes, given the lack of a hub on either end of these routes, and the competition from B6/VX/UA.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):

WN goes where B6 does not, and any fueler of growth is going to be an attempt to restrain B6 growth at BOS, That's their #1 objective.

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 15):
One opportunity might be BOS-AUS at 1x daily but timed for Texas travelers heading up to BOS, unlike B6's flight.

This is an opportunity that I think WN is aware of. B6 has a monopoly on BOS-AUS but the flight is timed to cater to BOS travelers.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 19):
WN knows they cant beat B6 at BOS, heck their DAL flight is only a 1x midday turn, that should be pretty telling right there.

It's pretty unbelievable that WN is only entering DAL-BOS with one frequency. B6 barely flies BOS-DFW 2x, and the only other competitor is AA, so I'm not sure why this market is so difficult.

adamh8297 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 25):

Concerning BOS-DAL, isn't the one frequency more of a gate constraint issue for WN at Love Field?

RL757PVD · Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 25):
It's pretty unbelievable that WN is only entering DAL-BOS with one frequency

I think that speaks volumes of WN's presence at BOS... the only places they can grow are places where no one else flies the route (aside from maybe RJs)... STL, MCI, MKE, BNA, IND. Even ATL they cant maintain FL levels of service and are down to 3x.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 26):
Concerning BOS-DAL, isn't the one frequency more of a gate constraint issue for WN at Love Field?

They arent so constrained at DAL that they couldn't add another frequnecy

gr8slvrflt · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:01 pm

Southwest Airlines is moving to Terminal A satellite, gates 18 through 22 on April 1st. Who vacated them? Delta? What's happening to WN's old E gates?

bjorn14 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:15 pm

WN could get 50-60 flights a day out of those 5 A gates. IIRC, they get 11.7 flights a day per gate at LAS.

SunsetLimited · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:18 pm

I think we might see BOS-MSY at some point. Currently B6 offers 1 daily A320, but there's enough O&D to support another nonstop. It wouldn't shock me to see this route started considering the overall popularity of the airline in New England and New Orleans.

tlecam · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting gr8slvrflt (Reply 28):
Southwest Airlines is moving to Terminal A satellite, gates 18 through 22 on April 1st. Who vacated them? Delta? What's happening to WN's old E gates?

You can read everything here:

Boston Aviation 3

Does anyone have a sense as to what % of WN passengers are Boston originating vs. originating elsewhere? I have a theory that WN passengers in Boston tend to originate elsewhere. If that's true, then maybe the likely additional dots on the WN map from Boston will be larger WN cities that don't yet have service?

I only say his because I rarely hear of anyone I know in Boston flying WN. I hear B6 a lot, plus Delta and AA/US and then the assortment of other carriers less frequently. Anecdotally, I rarely hear people talking about flying WN?

ScottB · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:51 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
I think that speaks volumes of WN's presence at BOS... the only places they can grow are places where no one else flies the route (aside from maybe RJs)... STL, MCI, MKE, BNA, IND. Even ATL they cant maintain FL levels of service and are down to 3x.

IMO WN's presence at BOS is far more about offering a broad set of key destinations from all those "other" cities, rather than attracting BOS-based passengers. So, from CMH, for example, they serve 16 destinations non-stop, far more than any other carrier. It's basically the same strategy they've followed with their DCA & LGA slots -- connecting those airports to their key cities.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
If WN really wanted to grow and invest in the local BOS market, they would have more of a Florida presence than the seasonal FL holdovers.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
WN can't compete against B6 from the Northeast to Florida.

Well, in the end, I think they'd only find themselves in a protracted fare war against an entrenched competitor with very similar costs, and there's no way for them to "win" that battle without B6 exiting those markets, which just isn't going to happen. B6 has the advantage in the BOS point-of-sale which is the driver of traffic on BOS-Florida.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 27):
They arent so constrained at DAL that they couldn't add another frequnecy

Sure, but there are plenty of other places which could use additional frequency from DAL, too.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 10):
WN goes where B6 does not, and any fueler of growth is going to be an attempt to restrain B6 growth at BOS, That's their #1 objective.

No, WN adds flights to BOS from cities where that results in an improved network for their customers. They were already the leading carrier at STL, so adding STL-BOS adds to their dominance. Similarly, they carry about one-third of passengers at CMH, so serving CMH-BOS makes them a more attractive choice for frequent flyers, particularly when the competition is 50-seat RJ's.

Revelation · Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting iowaman (Reply 6):
It makes sense to me to connect MCO, TPA, and FLL with BOS eventually even if they only have a piece of the market. MCO and TPA in particular have a good WN following.

As long as they keep their hands off my favorite route MHT-TPA I'm ok with it!

Quoting barney captain (Reply 8):
3500nm range from BOS (purported effective range of the MAX-8)

I thought WN tried to avoid tying up an a/c for long range flights unless they really sold well. They'd rather sell routings via "hubs" such as BNA and the WN customer set seems to put up with such routings fairly well.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 14):
WN can't compete against B6 from the Northeast to Florida.

Except where B6 chooses not to compete, such as MHT etc.

MaverickM11 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:22 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 33):
Except where B6 chooses not to compete, such as MHT etc.

Even WN barely wants to be in MHT

slcdeltarumd11 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:26 pm

I would think we will see LAS before Florida. LAS seems like a good possibility

Revelation · Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 34):
Even WN barely wants to be in MHT

LOL, you got me there!

rtalk25 · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting jetbluefan1 (Reply 25):
given the lack of a hub on either end of these routes,

OAK is technically a hub but WN doesn't generally flow traffic through it from eastern US stations. CMH is one new exception but the circumstances and competitive environment of WN offering CMH-OAK is different. BWI is another exception but there is a hub on both sides. BOS-SFO is very competitive.

WN still offers PHL-MCO at least 4x daily even though US/AA is the dominant carrier on the route. I don't see why it would be a concern to become the number 2 carrier on BOS-MCO. As long if it makes a profit, WN is fine being #2 in some cases.Though to fund this capacity, it might come at the expense of MHT.

I don't know how many BOS based travelers head up to MHT though. Many PHL based pax head to ACY to catch NK to catch Florida flights.

CIDFlyer · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:35 pm

most of the cities except a couple like IND & CMH for example, are WN "hubs" or as they term them focus cities. Outside of that they may add a route here or there but I think for the most part BOS is a B6 stronghold and WN will probably have a good presence to most of their focus cities in the east but probably wont get terribly huge there. I dont think they want to go head to head too much with B6

tomaheath · Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:39 pm

If they didn't want to be at MHT than why are they there? Didn't they just extend there lease at the airport?

runningonempty · Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:14 am

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 39):
If they didn't want to be at MHT than why are they there? Didn't they just extend there lease at the airport?

*their. Sorry, had to do it!

Anyway, yes, I also believe that Southwest enjoys the MHT market as it parallels in many ways with ISP. Both are, in a sense, a premium market. WN may never make what it used to be, but they aren't hurting with what they currently have. MHT (like ISP) has been very good to WN, and it's not for nothing...

tomaheath · Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting runningonempty (Reply 40):

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 39):
If they didn't want to be at MHT than why are they there? Didn't they just extend there lease at the airport?

*their. Sorry, had to do it!

Anyway, yes, I also believe that Southwest enjoys the MHT market as it parallels in many ways with ISP. Both are, in a sense, a premium market. WN may never make what it used to be, but they aren't hurting with what they currently have. MHT (like ISP) has been very good to WN, and it's not for nothing...

Haha. Thanks for the corrected Manchester New Hampshire public schools. I don't want to get to far off the original topic but all I think is with all the people traveling right past MHT to BOS I would think there could be a huge market. I'm guessing that it's the same story for Green in Provodence. But I'm glade Southwest is happy here in Manchester? How come Southwest didn't got to Boston in the first place?

Revelation · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:21 am

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 41):
Thanks for the corrected Manchester New Hampshire public schools.

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 41):
Provodence

Please tell me you did that intentionally...

In any case, it seems the consensus is that WN doesn't have much ability to grow at BOS?

I've used WN and B6 out of BOS and both were quite acceptable experiences in their own way. Chances are I would use either again, and wouldn't have much favoritism towards either. I'd look for itinerary (strong preference for non-stop, moderate preference for MHT over BOS) and cost (including bag when needed) and move out from there. Last time I looked for a flight I needed to get to MIA (and not FLL) and neither WN or B6 did MIA (has that changed?) so I went with DL MHT-LGA-MIA.

runningonempty · Tue Mar 31, 2015 2:53 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):

Quoting tomaheath (Reply 41):
Provodence

Please tell me you did that intentionally...

I concur!

Quoting Revelation (Reply 42):
and neither WN or B6 did MIA (has that changed?)

Nope, that has yet to change. FLL is the station of choice, and that is likely to remain that way.

I wouldn't say WN can't expand in Boston, I think it's more of an issue of resource allocation. If WN wanted to serve 7 more cities and was ready to fly them next week, but needed a gate or two, I would infer that Massport would go out of their way to make that happen.

It's a long shot, but ORH could be a decent OP for WN. Massport could subsidize the heck out of it a first, and get something like ORH-BWI/MDW/TPA to stick. IRROPS is a breeze because of their stations at MHT, BOS, and BDL. This may be something we see down the line. I would venture to guess that in the next 3 years, ORH will see a new carrier.

allegiantflyer · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 37):
WN still offers PHL-MCO at least 4x daily even though US/AA is the dominant carrier on the route. I don't see why it would be a concern to become the number 2 carrier on BOS-MCO

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 37):
WN is fine being #2 in some cases

Lets take a trip into a time machine back to a decade ago when Southwest planes first began landing in Phili.

Lets be real, Southwest did not want to be "#2" they were doing everything and adding frequencies thinking they could take traffic. However they definitely underestimated US, US and their FF base stood their ground and eventually WN surrendered on routes. They are not "OK" with it.

rtalk25 · Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:19 am

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 44):

Lets take a trip into a time machine back to a decade ago

It's not living in the past.

Quoting allegiantflyer (Reply 44):
They are not "OK" with it.

Then why it's commiting 4x daily on the route still? Maybe it will be phased out, but it keeps frequency year round at 4x daily (although it used to be more) with TPA (1x to 2x daily) and FLL/PBI seasonal.

Surely those planes that fly PHL-MCO could fly BWI-MSP at this point, if business routes and just augmenting the connecting complexes "hubs", or flying from middle America to business markets on the coasts, are all that matter.

To me, it seems WN wants to still be a #2 on leisure route that is PHL-MCO, than say launch BWI-MSP (which is more a business route) and be a #2 , in that case, against Delta.

I'd think BOS-MCO could be leisure route that could complement the random mix of business routes that it's offering out of BOS, even if Southwest isn't dominating the market pair and is a distant #2 or 3, on the route.

[Edited 2015-03-30 21:42:05]

sirloin · Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:05 am

WN may not be what it used to be in PHL, but it at least maintains a respectable level of service for a secondary carrier out of the airport, and with WN being the biggest player in MCO, there's probably enough traffic on both sides of the route (even if MCO tends to fall more on the D side of O&D) to justify its continued existence.

PHLBOS · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:02 pm

Do keep in mind that another reason why WN maintains PHL-MCO was because FL flew it as well (& WN consolidated the frequencies during the merger); many years ago, MCO was a hub for the original pre-J7 FL... so there is some history there (FWIW).

MCO seemed to be the only consistent non-stop route that FL flew out of PHL besides its primary ATL hub.

airbazar · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting barney captain (Reply 4):
Or maybe east.

They won't even go North so don't hold your breath for East

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 37):
I don't know how many BOS based travelers head up to MHT though.

None or close to none would be my guess. I live smack in the middle between the 2, and have lived here for 10+ years and I have only used MHT 3 times in those 10+ years. The closer to BOS you live the less attractive MHT will be. And if you live anywhere within a cab ride of the airport, then forget about the drive to MHT, let alone if you live in Boston proper and can take public transportation to the airport.

RL757PVD · Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 48):
None or close to none would be my guess.

I live in Cambridge and if im traveling before/after T hours, or if i am parking my car for more than 3 days, i'll use PVD if the fare is comprable. It takes 45 or do min on the T from door to door, so only 20 min more to get to PVD.

If I am parking, I can park my car in a garage at PVD for an entire week for what it costs for 2 days at BOS.

This year has been a lot of day day trips or single night from BOS, and multi night trips, primarily Florida from PVD.

Im also going to be using the DE PVD-FRA service this summer as well.

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