Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 878
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 12:59 am

American Airlines was non existant at MIA,Florida and the southestern USA before deregulation.Even when AA started
service to MIA I think around 1980 what routes did they have,I know DFW for one.Through the 1980s AA had a fairly small
presence at MIA because Eastern and Pan Am were still flying.AA's first cities in Florida were MIA,TPA and MCO,when
did they add FLL? When Eastern went under in 1991 that's when AA more than tripled their operations at MIA.I don't think
they had any MIA-Europe routes before Pan Am went under.
 
TUSAA
Posts: 156
Joined: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:20 am

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:34 am

I remember a SFO-MIAMI 707 that may have continued on to SJU. Don't have access to my timetables right now.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:43 am

They may have had 'humble beginnings' but when Eastern folded they jumped in to MIA with both feet and brilliantly capitalized on an underserved market with huge potential.



They weren't going to make a mistake again like the massive one they made when they declined to bid on Pan Am's Pacific routes, one of AA's biggest blunders that was eventually eclipsed by their takeover of TWA.



Interesting to ponder the Airline scene today if AA had outbid UA for those Pacific routes.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
727LOVER
Posts: 8633
Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2001 12:22 am

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
They may have had 'humble beginnings' but when Eastern folded they jumped in to MIA with both feet and brilliantly capitalized on an underserved market with huge potential.

Actually, no. The hub began in 1989...and when they acquired EA's Latin American assets, that when the buildup really began. That was summer 1990 and EA was still operating.
"We must accept finite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
 
NorthstarBoy
Posts: 1416
Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:53 pm

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:12 am

On the general subject of AA at MIA, the last time I flew through their MIA hub was 10 years ago and Terminal A appeared to be brand new, yet, within a matter of years they had demolished it along with terminals B, C, and D to rebuild Terminal D. Any idea what their logic in doing that was instead of renovating and connecting the existing terminals together?
Yes, I'd like to see airbus go under so Boeing can have their customers!
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 1):
I remember a SFO-MIAMI 707 that may have continued on to SJU. Don't have access to my timetables right now.

In the January 20, 1979 timetable AA only had 3 daily departures from MIA, a 727 to DFW and 2 707s, one to SFO and one to SJU. However the SFO 707 overnighted at MIA and returned to SFO the next morning. The 707 to SJU arrived an hour or so earlier from SJU and turned around and went back to SJU.

MIA departures:

AA693 707 SFO 0945
AA683 707 SJU 1705
AA601 727 DFW 1800

MIA arrivals:

AA684 707 SJU 1607
AA152 727 DFW 1650
AA474 707 SFO 2047
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1994
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
Interesting to ponder the Airline scene today if AA had outbid UA for those Pacific routes.

UA was a step ahead of everyone back in the 80's with Richard Ferris and Stephen Wolf at the helm. They bought the Pan Am Pacific routes/NRT hub as well as Pan Am's LHR operation including the intra-Europe route authority. Truly remarkable planning and execution. It didn't take 5 years to merge the Flight Attendant groups either.

I'm not familiar with UA's Miami/Latin Am route acquisition or why they weren't able to hang on and put up a bigger fight with AA unless they were simply too spread out with all the other recent acquisitions. MIA was definitely 'do or die' for AA as they didn't have the Pacific to fall back on like UA did. AA put all their chips on MIA and simply out-muscled everyone else.
 
User avatar
jsnww81
Posts: 2542
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 3:29 am

AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 4):

On the general subject of AA at MIA, the last time I flew through their MIA hub was 10 years ago and Terminal A appeared to be brand new, yet, within a matter of years they had demolished it along with terminals B, C, and D to rebuild Terminal D. Any idea what their logic in doing that was instead of renovating and connecting the existing terminals together?

Concourse A actually wasn't demolished and rebuilt. It opened around 1995 and originally handled a smattering of international carriers (it was connected to the now-demolished FIS facility in Concourse B). AA moved in around 2004-2005, then shut the concourse down for about a year or so to build the Skytrain tracks and station, which did require closing a few of the gates permanently. Once the Skytrain was up and running, Concourse A was reopened, but the building is the same one that was there before.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:28 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 3):
Actually, no. The hub began in 1989...and when they acquired EA's Latin American assets, that when the buildup really began. That was summer 1990 and EA was still operating.

Semantics, EA was done for, that was obvious.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 6):

UA was a step ahead of everyone back in the 80's with Richard Ferris and Stephen Wolf at the helm. They bought the Pan Am Pacific routes/NRT hub as well as Pan Am's LHR operation including the intra-Europe route authority. Truly remarkable planning and execution. It didn't take 5 years to merge the Flight Attendant groups either.

I'm not familiar with UA's Miami/Latin Am route acquisition or why they weren't able to hang on and put up a bigger fight with AA unless they were simply too spread out with all the other recent acquisitions. MIA was definitely 'do or die' for AA as they didn't have the Pacific to fall back on like UA did. AA put all their chips on MIA and simply out-muscled everyone else.

I couldn't agree with you more, the $750 Million UA paid for those Pacific routes was probably the best airline investment ever made and their subsequent moves were very well executed.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
FlyASAGuy2005
Posts: 3965
Joined: Sun Sep 23, 2007 4:55 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:07 am

It's funny to consider that DL is one of ZmIA's oldest tenants and prior to deregulation had a healthy operation.
What gets measured gets done.
 
OB1504
Posts: 3994
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:07 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):
It's funny to consider that DL is one of ZmIA's oldest tenants and prior to deregulation had a healthy operation.

   They've been in Concourse H since it was first built in 1961 and they've been flying to MIA since day one.
 
slvrblt
Posts: 383
Joined: Tue Dec 28, 2004 11:19 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 1:35 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 10):
They've been in Concourse H since it was first built in 1961 and they've been flying to MIA since day one.

Yes, and AA shared the H concourse for quite a long time with DL, even post 1989 when the buildup for AA began. It was a busy time with AA DC10's coming and going, and sitting alongside DL's L1011's on H.
AA moved over to the old D concourse in '91 I think it was, when the Latin American and other routes really started ramping up, and H became too small for the AA operation...and I think DL was sick of AA by then too.  
..everything works out in the end.
 
eastern747
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:12 pm

Humble beginnings my ass! When we were having troubles, they swooped down on those routes like vuluers on a dead dog. Absolutely disgusting. They never did the ground work, they never did the backup, they didn't built a base, they did NOTHING! Eastern opened all the doors and AA walked in.
 
Capt.Fantastic
Posts: 863
Joined: Thu Aug 12, 1999 4:01 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:21 pm

American got the Latin American routes from Eastern: Eastern picked them up from Braniff. I've always been curious about what would have transpired had Braniff played heir cards differently post-deregulation; i.e. if they focused on developing their Latin American network, instead of entering new Pacific and European markets, could things have turned out differently?
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):
Humble beginnings my ass! When we were having troubles, they swooped down on those routes like vuluers on a dead dog. Absolutely disgusting. They never did the ground work, they never did the backup, they didn't built a base, they did NOTHING! Eastern opened all the doors and AA walked in.

First off, as already mentioned, AA did, indeed, start out quite humbly in MIA fairly soon after deregulation, and long before the acquisition of Eastern's Latin route system. AA's first foray into MIA was just a few flights to a few markets, and was certainly dwarfed by the traditional heavy hitters in the market at that time - Eastern and Pan Am.

Second, while it's true that the mantle of AA's present dominant position at MIA was built upon the assets acquired from Eastern, it's simply not true that AA "never did the ground work" or never "built a base." On the contrary, in anticipation of the collapse of Eastern that did, indeed, come mere months later, AA as early as 1989 was already laying the groundwork to expand in the region by organically building an operation based upon domestic routes (BOS, MSY, PHL, etc.) and select international markets (GCM, KIN, MBJ, PAP, SJO, SDQ, etc.) where route authorities were available. Again - this all happened pre-1990.

In general, I'm not really sure what the beef is with AA. Again, it's certainly true that AA's immense MIA gateway rests on the shoulders of what Eastern built there, just as does United's Asia franchise or Delta's Atlantic operation owe at least some of its lineage to Pan Am. But it was more than two decades ago. In that time, for better or worse, I don't really see how anybody could fault AA for any lack of commitment or investment in the region - sure, AA bought into South America via Eastern, but AA has turned into something far, far bigger and stronger than anything Eastern ever did.
 
ozark1
Posts: 871
Joined: Fri Mar 03, 2006 4:38 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:41 pm

I am REALLY dating myself, but I remember working a 707 from DFW to MIA soon after the service began. I can distinctly recall that moldy, damp, humid air walking up the jetbridge. You know, one of those unique smells that you won't ever forget! I have no recollection if we had decent loads at the start. Everyone have a great evening.
 
rugger
Posts: 394
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:03 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:52 pm

Or the cabin fogging on arrival once the L1 was cracked open. All that humidity in the air!
 
afcjets
Posts: 3539
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting NorthstarBoy (Reply 4):
On the general subject of AA at MIA, the last time I flew through their MIA hub was 10 years ago and Terminal A appeared to be brand new, yet, within a matter of years they had demolished it along with terminals B, C, and D to rebuild Terminal D. Any idea what their logic in doing that was instead of renovating and connecting the existing terminals together?
Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 7):
Concourse A actually wasn't demolished and rebuilt. It opened around 1995 and originally handled a smattering of international carriers (it was connected to the now-demolished FIS facility in Concourse B). AA moved in around 2004-2005, then shut the concourse down for about a year or so to build the Skytrain tracks and station, which did require closing a few of the gates permanently. Once the Skytrain was up and running, Concourse A was reopened, but the building is the same one that was there before.

I haven't flown into MIA in 13 years but I remember soon after I thought American was building what they were calling "Super A" terminal exclusively for American. What ever happened to that?
 
OB1504
Posts: 3994
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 2004 5:10 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 17):
I haven't flown into MIA in 13 years but I remember soon after I thought American was building what they were calling "Super A" terminal exclusively for American. What ever happened to that?

That became the North Terminal, which incorporated parts of the existing Concourse A (formerly gates A3, A5, A7-A26, now D1-D15, D17, D19) and Concourse D (formerly gates D2, D4, D6, D8, D12, now D31-D34, D36). The remainder of the current facility is new construction.

It was originally going to be known as the World Gateway, but the title was quietly dropped after DTW finished their World Gateway first.

[Edited 2015-03-29 12:46:48]
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 15):
distinctly recall that moldy, damp, humid air walking up the jetbridge

i remember that smell when i went to Pan AM's tariff training class for travel agents back in August of 1990 near MIA!
 
simairlinenet
Posts: 819
Joined: Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:24 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:36 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
They weren't going to make a mistake again like the massive one they made when they declined to bid on Pan Am's Pacific routes, one of AA's biggest blunders that was eventually eclipsed by their takeover of TWA.

My understanding is that American wasn't even given a chance to bid.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:34 am

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 20):
My understanding is that American wasn't even given a chance to bid.

In regard to the Pacific network, thats my understanding as well. Wasnt there some bad blood between the CEOs? If thats the case then AA's biggest blunder would have been the failure to acquire NW.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
dfw-man
Posts: 169
Joined: Tue Jul 27, 1999 5:19 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:34 am

I personally think that Concourse D in Miani is Americans best terminal even better than the D concourse in my own hometown. Flown through it many a times and always have admired the number of eataries within the terminal

[Edited 2015-03-29 17:36:24]
 
DDR
Posts: 1736
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:02 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):

Couldn't the same be said about Eastern and Braniff International? Braniff did the homework and established the S.A. Routes, not Eastern.
 
flymia
Posts: 7131
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 6:33 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 3:05 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 9):

It's funny to consider that DL is one of ZmIA's oldest tenants and prior to deregulation had a healthy operation.

They still have decent ops here, and a strong FF base. But yes they have been going strong at H for some time now.

Quoting dfw-man (Reply 22):
Flown through it many a times and always have admired the number of eataries within the terminal

It took a LONG time to get the terminal complete but along with even longer time to get good food in there but yes, I have to agree. It has a lot of food and shopping options for a U.S. airport.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 14):
In general, I'm not really sure what the beef is with AA. Again, it's certainly true that AA's immense MIA gateway rests on the shoulders of what Eastern built there, just as does United's Asia franchise or Delta's Atlantic operation owe at least some of its lineage to Pan Am. But it was more than two decades ago. In that time, for better or worse, I don't really see how anybody could fault AA for any lack of commitment or investment in the region - sure, AA bought into South America via Eastern, but AA has turned into something far, far bigger and stronger than anything Eastern ever did.

Well said.

Quoting simairlinenet (Reply 20):
My understanding is that American wasn't even given a chance to bid.

If that's the case I've never heard of it. I do remember Crandall expressing regret after UA placed the winning bid.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
topbanana
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 10:12 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):
Humble beginnings my ass! When we were having troubles, they swooped down on those routes like vuluers on a dead dog. Absolutely disgusting. They never did the ground work, they never did the backup, they didn't built a base, they did NOTHING! Eastern opened all the doors and AA walked in.

Please correct me if I am wrong...

"When we were having troubles, they swooped down on those routes like vuluers on a dead dog."

Is that not the same way that Eastern obtained many of those South American routes from Braniff?

In the early 80s... did Eastern not swoop in and buy most of those South American routes from Braniff during Braniff's darkest days?
Top Banana in the West. Yes.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3539
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:14 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 12):
EASTERN747

Why does it matter? I loved Eastern and think it is the most under-rated iconic airline in airline history and am sad it went under, but AA expanding in MIA had nothing to do with the demise of EA. I am glad AA came in and filled the void and turned MIA into something even much bigger than EA, and almost overnight. I can see why former Braniff employees might have disdain for American, but don't see what American did to Eastern.
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 27):
I can see why former Braniff employees might have disdain for American

What did American do to cause disdain among ex-Braniff employees?
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
User avatar
EA CO AS
Posts: 15797
Joined: Wed Nov 14, 2001 8:54 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 11:45 am

Quoting TopBanana (Reply 26):
In the early 80s... did Eastern not swoop in and buy most of those South American routes from Braniff during Braniff's darkest days?

Yes, but where was BN operating those South America flights from? A huge Latin American operation out of MIA - under EA - was a stroke of genius.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
sccutler
Posts: 5843
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 28):
What did American do to cause disdain among ex-Braniff employees?

AA engaged in questionable behavior at DFW in Braniff's waning days, some of which was unprofessional childishness (alleged to have purposely rolled-out long to require go-arounds by BN inbounds, stuff like that). Of course, Braniff was something close to a dead man walking by then (financially), as a result of poor management decisions and ridiculous expansion.

If they'd had the sense to arrange DIP financing, though, they could easily have survived. C'est la vie.
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
ckfred
Posts: 5188
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2001 12:50 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:59 pm

Quoting TUSAA (Reply 1):
They weren't going to make a mistake again like the massive one they made when they declined to bid on Pan Am's Pacific routes, one of AA's biggest blunders that was eventually eclipsed by their takeover of TWA

Buying TWA was only a bad idea after 9/11. The summer of 2000 was miserable at ORD. It seemed like every day, I saw a crawler on The Weather Channel for severe thunderstorm watches and warnings, which then threw the ORD schedule out the window.

Having another Midwest hub only 300 miles away made sense. Even in the winter, if a storm comes up from the southwest, STL is usually resuming operations as ORD goes down to 1 or 2 runways.

Further, TWA had a lot of unused European route authorities. No one knew at the time if the EU was going to decide that it would negotiate route authorities on behalf of all member countries. So, having all of those route authorities made sense, until the EU decided that it could negotiate an open skies agreement on behalf of the entire membership.
 
superjeff
Posts: 1385
Joined: Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:14 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting TopBanana (Reply 26):
Is that not the same way that Eastern obtained many of those South American routes from Braniff?

Not quite. Braniff tried to "lease" their South American routes to Eastern; the agreement was pending when Braniff (I) shut down in May, 1982, and Eastern had to jump in several weeks early. I do think it is interesting to note that EAstern took many of Braniff's South American staff, as well as many of their South American based cabin staff; and then later on, when Eastern died, American did the same things. Braniff's problem was Howard Putnam didn't understand how Braniff's system operated. He assumed they were losing money there, but it was a real cash cow. They had some screwy accounting to avoid Soth American currency controls.

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 28):
What did American do to cause disdain among ex-Braniff employees?

Many Braniff employees believe that American (1) moved their headquarters to Fort Worth from New York and overlaid Braniff's route map with competitive flights; then did everything they could to run Braniff out of business, including requesting landing at DFW on the runways closest to the Braniff terminal (now Terminal B). There are also those at Eastern and Pan Am that believe that American helped run those two carriers out of business using some of the same tactics.

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
Yes, but where was BN operating those South America flights from? A huge Latin American operation out of MIA - under EA - was a stroke of genius.

Braniff operated to South America from Miami, with continuing service to/from JFK and IAD, and connecting flights into MIA from DFW, MSY, and TPA. Their JFK/IAD flights could not carry local traffic prior to deregulation.
 
eastern747
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:55 pm

Eastern did acquire routes from Braniff, but totally expected to expand as we received more aircraft. However more damn problems with the unions, all of them, was sinking us deeper into the sand. The idiots at the unions didn't grasp the fact that as we expanded and got stronger, made more money,and they would benefit from. But every different union wanted to feel more important then the others and rule the roost. We had plans to build our own terminal where I guess "A" is now, (haven't been there for a while) with it's own customs and immigration, so we avoided the stupid requirement to drag aircraft from the international arrivals side back over to our departure gates. Eastern was going to pay the salaries of the government folks. But union pressure slowed the process and we went under before plans were completed. BTW. I believe it was trans america airline we bought and really got us into the Carribean.
 
KELPkid
Posts: 5247
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:33 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 31):
Buying TWA was only a bad idea after 9/11. The summer of 2000 was miserable at ORD. It seemed like every day, I saw a crawler on The Weather Channel for severe thunderstorm watches and warnings, which then threw the ORD schedule out the window.

I thought TWA was on financial shaky ground before 9/11...Carl Icahn's stock acquisition and subsequent "investor activism" certainly didn't do anything to help   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:48 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 27):
but AA expanding in MIA had nothing to do with the demise of EA

What? AA expanding at MIA had everything to do with the demise of EA.
 
doulasc
Topic Author
Posts: 878
Joined: Sat Dec 17, 2011 5:12 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Mon Mar 30, 2015 10:36 pm

If Pan Am and Eastern survived, AA would only be serving,DFW,SJU ,maybe JFK and ORD out of MIA
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 32):
Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 29):
Yes, but where was BN operating those South America flights from? A huge Latin American operation out of MIA - under EA - was a stroke of genius.


Braniff operated to South America from Miami, with continuing service to/from JFK and IAD, and connecting flights into MIA from DFW, MSY, and TPA. Their JFK/IAD flights could not carry local traffic prior to deregulation.

Braniff also had a few nonstops from JFK to BOG and EZE. In the October 1974 timetable they also operated LAX-LIM nonstop 3 days a week, continuing to various points beyond. LAX-LIM flights originated SFO (no traffic rights SFO-LAX)

[Edited 2015-03-30 17:25:13]
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5113
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting superjeff (Reply 32):
Many Braniff employees believe that American (1) moved their headquarters to Fort Worth from New York and overlaid Braniff's route map with competitive flights; then did everything they could to run Braniff out of business, including requesting landing at DFW on the runways closest to the Braniff terminal (now Terminal B). There are also those at Eastern and Pan Am that believe that American helped run those two carriers out of business using some of the same tactics.

So much sour grapes in this thread. Water under the bridge. By the way, there are no Braniff, Eastern, or Pan Am employees anymore. Maybe all those former employees should let go of events that happened decades ago when AA was a much, much different company. And maybe, just maybe, little things like another airline landing closer to their terminal wouldn't have helped put them out of business if they'd been run better overall.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 38):
So much sour grapes in this thread

  
Ah, the scapegoat syndrome, it's always easier to blame others  

AA has done an excellent job over 25 years turning MIA into the powerful hub it is today. Despite the ups and downs of quite a few of the Latin American economies, they remained committed.
Peter Dolara and Art Torno are the two guys deserving most of the credit, but they couldn't have done it without the 'laissez faire' attitude of Crandall and his successors. Congrats to my hometown airline.   
 
miaami
Posts: 943
Joined: Thu Jul 12, 2007 2:27 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:44 am

Does anyone know if the new MIA-FRA flight is going to be seasonal/ summer only. I looked on AA.com and it was not bookable for November 2015.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 6:55 am

Quoting miaami (Reply 40):

Does anyone know if the new MIA-FRA flight is going to be seasonal/ summer only. I looked on AA.com and it was not bookable for November 2015.

Yep. MIA-FRA will operate from May 14th through September 29th. Even though AA's PR about the service does not explicitly state that it is a seasonal service, it does hint that it is indeed for the "peak season":

Quote:
The flights will depart Miami at 2:45 p.m. daily, arriving in Frankfurt at 6:15 a.m. Flights will depart Frankfurt at 10:30 a.m. daily, arriving in Miami at 2:55 p.m. American Airlines now has four daily peak season flights to Frankfurt from its hubs in Miami, Dallas/Fort Worth, Charlotte, and Philadelphia.
http://hub.aa.com/en/nr/american-air...new-flight-from-miami-to-frankfurt
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:31 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 31):
Buying TWA was only a bad idea after 9/11.

Interesting theory, perhaps you should look at what remains of this disastrous 'acquisition'
to remind you how pointless it was. It basically crippled American and added a massive
amount of debt when they needed it least.


And what exactly did they get in return ?


Nothing that remains apart from a few, ancient MD80's.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5113
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 42):
Interesting theory, perhaps you should look at what remains of this disastrous 'acquisition' to remind you how pointless it was. It basically crippled American and added a massiveamount of debt when they needed it least.And what exactly did they get in return ?Nothing that remains apart from a few, ancient MD80's.

The most valuable thing AA ever got from TWA was long before their acquisition of TWA - the London route authorities in 1991.

Although getting TWA's JFK slots and infrastructure was a pretty big deal.
 
MAH4546
Posts: 26423
Joined: Wed Jan 24, 2001 1:44 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:13 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 41):
Yep. MIA-FRA will operate from May 14th through September 29th. Even though AA's PR about the service does not explicitly state that it is a seasonal service, it does hint that it is indeed for the "peak season":

While not bookable past that date, the route is planned currently to operate year-round.
a.
 
afcjets
Posts: 3539
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:27 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 35):
What? AA expanding at MIA had everything to do with the demise of EA.

Eastern was losing money for almost two decades before American began expanding in MIA in the very late 1980s. Also, the union battles mentioned in this thread and Frank Loreno had nothing to do with American, and Eastern would have likely had the same fate. Besides, almost all of AA's expansion in MIA took place after Eastern quit flying.
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 35):

No it didn't. EA wasn't making money long before AA showed up in MIA. I know a.netters love to think that airlines put one another out of business, but failed airlines and failed companies fail because they have bad business plans or cannot adapt.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8634
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
The most valuable thing AA ever got from TWA was long before their acquisition of TWA - the London route authorities in 1991.

Agree with that.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 43):
Although getting TWA's JFK slots and infrastructure was a pretty big deal.

It would have been worth it as a separate acquisition, buying the whole Airline was a huge mistake, in fact I think AA would have avoided bankruptcy if they had left TWA alone.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
User avatar
N62NA
Posts: 4493
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 1:05 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:13 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 45):
almost all of AA's expansion in MIA took place after Eastern quit flying.
Quoting MVAair (Reply 46):
No it didn't.

The ending of EA definitely allowed AA to greatly expand MIA.
 
User avatar
cageyjames
Posts: 672
Joined: Fri Nov 03, 2006 2:08 am

RE: AA's Humble Beginning At MIA

Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 47):
in fact I think AA would have avoided bankruptcy if they had left TWA alone.

They had to shed costs and the only way to do that with a unionized workforce is bankruptcy. Once everyone else went bankrupt, they had to follow.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos