CyberEntomology
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:44 pm

https://twitter.com/Brett_CBC/status/582244266400956416/photo/1

CBC is calling the Localizer antenna the "Runway navigation lights"...
 
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DocLightning
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting Lostsound (Reply 16):
Partially destroyed. Definitely a write off.

Oof. That doesn't look like it felt very nice. Glad everyone is OK.

Quoting sixtyseven (Reply 75):

These things get torn up pretty quickly when they go off road. You look at AF in YYZ and everyone walked off you would have thought that looking at the burnt out hulk. Looking at the aircraft afterwards is not what an investigator will do to classify the severity of the incident.

Yes, but that's post-crash fire. The airframe after the crash but before the fire didn't look that bad.

Generally if the fuselage is intact and right-side up, the people inside are going to be OK. Banged up, for sure, but OK.
-Doc Lightning-

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aviatorcraig
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting Lostsound (Reply 93):
Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 32):
Are you an aircraft engineer?

Are you serious?

Lets review:
- One wings completely mangled and destroyed
- Belly of plane damaged
- Nose of plane heavily damaged
- One engine has ripped off and has been destroyed
- Landing gear ripped off and collapsed

Written off ? What's the problem? A good mechanic and a few rolls of speed-tape and she'll be flying again in a few days.  
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exfss
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:11 pm

From the new here, (in french) people seem to have stayed 50 minutes outside, on the runway, beside the crashed airplane, waiting for help.
People coming back from south, with summer clothes on only, some with no shoes ...

50 minute for intervention is quiet long.
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
NSMike
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 97):
It's worth remembering that seven crew members lost their lives when MK Airlines 747-200F 9G-MKJ hit this same Berm at Halifax on 14th October 2004. It was going the opposite direction of course and hit the Berm on take off. Used wrong weight and consequently calculated wrong speeds failing to gain altitude. Now this same localiser antenna is wrecked again. Maybe the time has come to to re profile the ground in this area!

It's not the same berm. Runway 05-23 was extended by about 1500' (around 1000 feet at the 05 end) a few years ago.
Pearl Snares, Taye Drums, Sabian Cymbals, Remo Heads, Los Cabos Sticks
 
Viscount724
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 23):
First Air Canada hull loss since Cincinnati (32 years ago)? Can't recall any others,
Quoting SpaceshipDC10 (Reply 40):
When was the last time this kind of accident happened in Canada to a canadian registered aircraft? The last I can think of is Canadian DC-10 at YVR, but the outcome was not as terrible as this one since the DC-10 was repaired.

As already mentioned in Reply 25, there was also the AC CRJ accident (landing in fog) at YFC (Fredericton, New Brunswick) in December 1997.

http://www.baaa-acro.com/wp-content/uploads/1997/12/CRJ-AirCanada.jpg

Much more serious was the First Air 737-200C crash on approach to Resolute Bay (YRB) in the Canadian arctic in August 2011, killing all 12 aboard. That was a charter flight.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20110820-0
http://avherald.com/h?article=4419c56e

http://avherald.com/img/firstair_b732_c-gnwn_resolute_bay_110820_2.jpg
 
kaitak
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting exfss (Reply 104):
People coming back from south, with summer clothes on only, some with no shoes ...

I saw that and I thought to myself ... Did the not check the forecast before leaving wherever they had been? What kind of weather were they expecting in March?

Does anyone know AC procedures in situations such as this? Are the flight crewmembers suspended immediately, pending the outcome of the Canadian air accident investigation report?
 
osiris30
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting cyberentomology (Reply 101):
https://twitter.com/Brett_CBC/status/582244266400956416/photo/1

CBC is calling the Localizer antenna the "Runway navigation lights"...

Well that looks to settle whether or not they hit anything before they landed...

Quoting EMAman (Reply 92):

It never rains it pours, 3rd A320 in as many months!! I am pleased this one ended with no casualties. Good luck to all on board.

At first blush is appears that the most recent 2 (I don't remember what the 3rd is) can hardly be blamed on the airframe. On the contrary the Airbus engineers showed how remarkably well built their aircraft can be with this accident in Halifax. Just like the B777 Asiana flight. Miraculous engineering at play.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 94):
There seems to be some defensiveness over this. No one is saying anything bad about Air Canada.

      This was a crash.. a crash landing, but still a crash and certainly not a runway overrun as it's been called. It actually irks me that Air Canada is referring to it as such. Good airlines can have accidents. No one died. Everyone should be thankful for that, but to call it an overrun just feels wrong.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
sixtyseven
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 102):
Quoting Lostsound (Reply 16):
Partially destroyed. Definitely a write off.

Oof. That doesn't look like it felt very nice. Glad everyone is OK.

Quoting sixtyseven (Reply 75):

These things get torn up pretty quickly when they go off road. You look at AF in YYZ and everyone walked off you would have thought that looking at the burnt out hulk. Looking at the aircraft afterwards is not what an investigator will do to classify the severity of the incident.

Yes, but that's post-crash fire. The airframe after the crash but before the fire didn't look that bad.

Generally if the fuselage is intact and right-side up, the people inside are going to be OK. Banged up, for sure, but OK.

You must have seen some pics snapped pretty quick. The first engine on AF cooked off within 30 seconds of it coming to rest.

My point is this. Don't look at these pictures and try to judge the severity of the incident. Look at the people. They all walked away. From no doubt a harrowing, wild, rough, and upsetting ride.

The fuselage stayed in one piece, no fire. The aircraft did what it was designed for post crash. For me this doesn't look that bad. It's a write off but the important part is solid, and in one piece and allowed for an orderly and successful evacuation. Other stuff is strewn about who cares. What we need to do is wait and see what caused it to get to this condition.
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exfss
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting kaitak (Reply 107):
What kind of weather were they expecting in March?

Well actually, we dont want to carry extra weight on a south vacation.
Usually, when thing go correct, we dont get to go outside when at destination.

Since there is no locker in airport anymore,we just need someone to bring clothe for us at the airport.
(There is no way i am gonna carry winter booth and hat and mits and wintercoat all the way south for nothing)
I prefer stick to the idea that everything will go well...:¬)
No question is stupid.Only answers can be.
 
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DocLightning
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 108):
At first blush is appears that the most recent 2 (I don't remember what the 3rd is) can hardly be blamed on the airframe.

On Air Asia X there was a fault in the flight augmentation computer and the crew decided to disconnect and reboot it. As soon as they disconnected it, the aircraft went into an uncontrolled climb and then an unrecoverable stall. I would blame that in part on the aircraft. The flight augmentation computer should *never* fail on a FBW aircraft.
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rta
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Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:01 pm

Just need to buff it out a bit - should be back in service in no time.   




Yeah that looks pretty bad. Glad everyone made it out okay.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 111):
Just need to buff it out a bit - should be back in service in no time.

Might need a fresh coat of paint, too.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 111):
On Air Asia X there was a fault in the flight augmentation computer and the crew decided to disconnect and reboot it. As soon as they disconnected it, the aircraft went into an uncontrolled climb and then an unrecoverable stall. I would blame that in part on the aircraft.

I really hadn't followed that particular accident so I can't comment, but I based on what you describe that certainly isn't a 'good thing' to have happened. This flight and the Germanwings flight however, look like they will be hard to pin on the aircraft... although I suppose it's possible there was a system issue on this AC flight. That said I'd be surprised that we hadn't heard about anything yet. However in general the silence is deafening from AC and company considering an aircraft was written off last night. The only thing I've seen so far reported from them on the news is a very vague general statement that it may take months to find out what happened...
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:09 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 107):
This was a crash.. a crash landing, but still a crash and certainly not a runway overrun as it's been called. It actually irks me that Air Canada is referring to it as such.

Where has AC referred to a "runway overrun"? I can't find any such reference in any AC communications, including in the 3 updates on their website.

I agree it most definitely wasn't an overrun whicih implies going off the end. In fact it came down short of the runway and stopped quite close to the beginning of the runway. That's certainly not an overrun.

I would change the subject to: Air Canada Landing Accident at Halifax".
 
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AirlineCritic
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:11 pm

This is clearly a crash. I am very happy that everyone walked away (or was at least only mildly hurt). Hitting structures before landing clearly counts as crash in my book, as does significant damage to the airframe. Of course, the hull stayed mostly intact to protect the participants, and that's a testament to today's aircraft engineering that these planes can withstand fairly aggressive events. Just look at Asiana in SFO, for instance.

It is also clearly a write-off.
 
Okie
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:12 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 107):
Well that looks to settle whether or not they hit anything before they landed

By looking at the satellite images and google earth from the road/highway quite some distance before the localizer antennas you can see the power lines.
The power lines seem to be at about the same elevation as the antennas.

They appear to have been way low for quite some time before contacting the power lines much less the antennas.

Okie
 
osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 114):
Where has AC referred to a "runway overrun"? I can't find any such reference in any AC communications, including in the 3 updates on their website.

An AC statement and/or tweet was quoted last night (well early AM EST) on the news that said either runway overrun or aircraft went off the runway. I'll try and find the source, but it may have been poor reporting by CBC or a later retracted tweet. Either way I'm surprised by how quiet AC has been about this whole thing.

[edit]
https://twitter.com/AirCanada/status/582037344494174209 That's just one.. I know there are/were others.

[Edited 2015-03-29 13:18:33]

[edit 2]
http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/ID/2661358911/ watch the dodgy answers there too... pretty brutal.


[Edited 2015-03-29 13:31:56]
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:14 pm

AC still has a pretty impressive safety record. The most recent fatalities predate the Gimli Glider, and the last (and only) time they lost all souls on board was in 1970 (although they did have a training flight in 1967 where all 3 crew were killed, but no pax on board)
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:16 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 102):

Written off ? What's the problem? A good mechanic and a few rolls of speed-tape and she'll be flying again in a few days.

My comment was based on the photo in post 16. The photos after that were posted subsequent to my comment.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
yfbflyer
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 105):
Much more serious was the First Air 737-200C crash on approach to Resolute Bay (YRB) in the Canadian arctic in August 2011, killing all 12 aboard. That was a

That is news to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560

Of the 15 people on board, 12 were killed, and three were injured but survived
 
CyberEntomology
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:04 pm

It looks like the terrain at Halifax follows the glideslope for a bit - can anyone who's flown in there confirm? Nothing as dramatic as TGU, though...
 
threepoint
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:06 pm

Quoting cyberentomology (Reply 121):
It looks like the terrain at Halifax follows the glideslope for a bit

There is no glideslope for the runway in use (Rwy 05).
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:19 pm

TSB has a briefing at 5:30 EST (in about 10 minutes).
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
EMAman
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:28 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 107):
At first blush is appears that the most recent 2 (I don't remember what the 3rd is) can hardly be blamed on the airframe. On the contrary the Airbus engineers showed how remarkably well built their aircraft can be with this accident in Halifax. Just like the B777 Asiana flight. Miraculous engineering at play.

The 3 are Air Asia, Germanwings and Air Canada. I wasnt blaming the air frame, more insinuating that these things tend to come in 3's and I hope that this is third for the A320, and tehre wont be any more.

I fully agree that in many ways it is a testament to the modern engineering that these accidents happen, similarly e.g. OZ214, BA038 and people rarely die any more.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting yfbflyer (Reply 120):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 105):
Much more serious was the First Air 737-200C crash on approach to Resolute Bay (YRB) in the Canadian arctic in August 2011, killing all 12 aboard. That was a

That is news to me

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Air_Flight_6560

Of the 15 people on board, 12 were killed, and three were injured but survived

Thanks. Misread the report.
 
osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:33 pm

Aircraft touched down 1100ft short of the runway per the briefing.

Cvr and fdr enroute to Ottawa (as expected)

French investigators are on the way as well as representatives from Airbus.

[Edited 2015-03-29 14:35:25]

Damage occurred prior to impact with ils array. Landing gear was sheared off on landing and prior to impact with structures on the ground.

Debris starts at point of initial imimpact.

Power line was severed by aircraft.


[Edited 2015-03-29 14:42:11]

Pax "pretty lucky".

Apologies for typos, doing this from my phone.


[Edited 2015-03-29 14:44:37]
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
DDR
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:36 pm

I often wonder why power lines near runways aren't buried. These obviously had to be close to the runway because they (the AC flight) weren't too far from the runway where they?
 
osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 127):

I often wonder why power lines near runways aren't buried. These obviously had to be close to the runway because they (the AC flight) weren't too far from the runway where they?

They touched down 1100ft short after hhitting the ils "antenna array" per the tsb.
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
Okie
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 127):
I often wonder why power lines near runways aren't buried. These obviously had to be close to the runway because they (the AC flight) weren't too far from the runway where they?

The power lines were a considerable distance before the antenna array and appears to be at the same elevation as the array.

The plane was way way below the glide slope and hitting objects including power lines and the antenna array what appears to be at least a km before the PAPI's.

I am not privy to the CVR or FDR but it appears at first glance they were in a situation that would have called for a go around long before they found the power lines or antenna array.

Okie
 
SpaceshipDC10
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 127):
I often wonder why power lines near runways aren't buried. These obviously had to be close to the runway because they (the AC flight) weren't too far from the runway where they?

Open the link below and scroll down to the Google Earth screenshot and you'll see the location of everything, including the point where aircraft should land ideally on the runway, that is where taxiway B connect to the runway. The aircraft stopped short of it. So it's not a matter of power lines location in this case but instead an aircraft approaching below glideslope, for a reason we don't officially know yet.

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=483e7337&opt=0
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:17 pm

I so don't want to start an A vs B war, and I'm not a fanboy of either but here goes...

Has anyone else pondered that if this had been a 737-800 the fuselage would be in three distinct parts now?
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Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 123):
TSB has a briefing at 5:30 EST (in about 10 minutes).

Video of the TSB update.
http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/air-can...sh-hit-antenna-array-tsb-1.2302693
 
737tdi
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 131):
Has anyone else pondered that if this had been a 737-800 the fuselage would be in three distinct parts now?

Maybe, but as I have stated many times on Anet the structure of Boeings are different. The strongest part of a Boeing is it's center section, fuel tank/keel beam area. An aircraft is going to break at it's weakest point. Either way the outcome would be the same, injuries and all survived. JMO.
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 131):
Has anyone else pondered that if this had been a 737-800 the fuselage would be in three distinct parts now?

Oh goodie. I'll get my popcorn.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 10:51 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 127):

It wasn't the distance of the power lines to the runway, that was the problem...it was the distance of the aircraft to the power lines.

Unless there was something wrong with the aircraft, it is going to be very difficult to describe this accident as anything other than CFIT.
What the...?
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 133):
Maybe, but as I have stated many times on Anet the structure of Boeings are different. The strongest part of a Boeing is it's center section, fuel tank/keel beam area. An aircraft is going to break at it's weakest point. Either way the outcome would be the same, injuries and all survived. JMO.

We all know the difference of cockpit and control surface differences between A and B. But I have never heard structurally their is any difference between similar products (i.e. 737 v A320). Is this substantiated or just opinion?

What would the reason be for a more fortified section of plane vs. a less fortified section? Meaning, I get the Airbus FBW mindset vs. Boeing Pilot mindset. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I can think of not "pros" or "cons" of a less fortified section of plane.

I am not saying I don't believe it. Just saying I'd like some more info.
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
YQBexYHZBGM
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:23 pm

I took a drive by the site a couple hours ago. The aircraft is still in position, and the main runway at YHZ remains closed. Crosswind runway is in operation.

Radio reports were still describing accounts of the aircraft striking powerlines as speculative, but the lines were clearly down and were in the process of being repaired by power crews. The aircraft took out the approach light structures and most of the ILS array on top of the berm at the southern end of the runway. Two landing gear strut and tire assemblies were protruding from the snowbank near the end of the runway to the right of centerline. Knowing the distance it normally takes an aircraft to slow to taxi speed after landing on this runway, seeing the position of this aircraft, it's clear the deceleration forces experienced after initial impact would have been considerable. Passengers described banging heads against the seats in front of them, with reports of broken noses and other facial injuries.

I was on the highway about 30 km west of the airport at the time of this incident. Ground level visibility was terrible at 80 km/h, let alone aircraft landing speed. 20/20 hindsight would have favored diverting to YQM, YYG or YQY, which, contrary to most storms this winter, seemed to have escaped the brunt of this particular coastal storm.

I'm just thankful everyone survived.

-Al
YQBexYHZBGM
(minus the YQB part, I'm no longer there)
 
osiris30
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting osiris30 (Reply 126):
Damage occurred prior to impact with ils array. Landing gear was sheared off on landing and prior to impact with structures on the ground

Just want to clarify this. Damage occurred prior to impact, with ils array. The comma is terribly important there but typing on the phone is proving challenging for detailed notes  

In other words, the damage starts at the ils array before the touchdown point.

[Edited 2015-03-29 16:50:28]
I don't care what you think of my opinion. It's my opinion, so have a nice day :)
 
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b777900
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Sun Mar 29, 2015 11:51 pm

there are injuries... some are still in hospital.
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Vio
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:09 am

Well I don't want to be the armchair TSB investigator, but I agree with everyone else here saying that some people are down playing this. The incident is an aircraft accident. If the air frame is a write-off (not to mention injuries sustained by some passengers), not just a runway excursion.

I'm very sad to see this, as I commute with AC on a regular basis to and from work and I really want to work for them one day.
Superior decisions reduce the need for superior skills.
 
Viscount724
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting b777900 (Reply 139):
there are injuries... some are still in hospital.

Only one person was still in hospital at the time of the last AC update much earlier today.
http://www.aircanada.com/en/news/150329.html
 
DDR
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:37 am

JoeCanuck, Spaceship, and everyone else that responded to my post, thank you. You guys are right. Power lines should not have been an issue.
 
DDR
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:38 am

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 131):

Sort of like the AA Super 80 in Little Rock.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting YQBexYHZBGM (Reply 137):
I was on the highway about 30 km west of the airport at the time of this incident. Ground level visibility was terrible at 80 km/h, let alone aircraft landing speed. 20/20 hindsight would have favored diverting to YQM, YYG or YQY, which, contrary to most storms this winter, seemed to have escaped the brunt of this particular coastal storm.

What is the largest aircraft YQY sees regularly?
 
YQBexYHZBGM
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RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 12:58 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 144):
What is the largest aircraft YQY sees regularly?

YQY gets 737s (not sure which variant) from WS during the summer season, and a mix of CRJ2 and DH8s year round from AC Express (previously AC mainline DC9s and likely 727-200s on occasion as well).

-Al
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:05 am

Quoting DDR (Reply 143):
Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 131):


Sort of like the AA Super 80 in Little Rock.

Or the SAS MD-80 at Stockholm in 1991. Engines flamed out just after takeoff due to ice ingestion from inadequate de-icing.



Or the early Continental 707-124 at the old downtown Kansas City airport (MKC) in 1965. Hydroplaned off the end.

 
AIRWALK
Posts: 239
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:33 am

RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:15 am

Quoting vio (Reply 140):
Well I don't want to be the armchair TSB investigator, but I agree with everyone else here saying that some people are down playing this. The incident is an aircraft accident. If the air frame is a write-off (not to mention injuries sustained by some passengers), not just a runway excursion.

It is an accident regardless as to the extent of the damage. The aviation definition of accident is:

An occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked, in which:

b) the aircraft sustains damage or structural failure which:

- adversely affects the structural strength, performance or flight characteristics of the aircraft, and

- would normally require major repair or replacement of the affected component

If it fits into this category it is an accident, regardless of how it looks.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
737tdi
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting susej772 (Reply 136):
What would the reason be for a more fortified section of plane vs. a less fortified section? Meaning, I get the Airbus FBW mindset vs. Boeing Pilot mindset. Both have their strengths and weaknesses. I can think of not "pros" or "cons" of a less fortified section of plane.

There really is no fortification. That is and was not the intent. To use the 737 as an example, the wings are physically connected to each other through the center. I should say structurally. Just like a ship most aircraft have a keel beam. Through that and the center fuel tank it makes for a very strong section of the aircraft. If you were to crawl into the center tank of a Boeing you would realize. It is built like a tank, very strong structure. As I said it was not built as a failure point or a strong point of the aircraft, it just turned out that way by general physics. I can not speak to the Airbus because the last Airbus I worked on was an A300 and we were scrapping it. It really doesn't matter though, both manufacturers build awesome aircraft but have different philosophies about how. Same as Douglas and British Aerospace. There is little commonality between any of them but they all are physically safe. IMO Douglas built the strongest aircraft ever made but we have learned that aircraft, just like cars, need to be able to shed parts to be safe (i.e. Formula one cars).
 
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speedbird707
Posts: 39
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: Air Canada Landing Accident At Halifax

Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:48 am

As far as write offs go...what happened the the Dash 8 at Edmonton a few months ago...what that repaired or scrapped...also, does AC have anything spare to replace this frame?...desert maybe

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