AF operated the inaugural 777-200ER service CDG-YVR-CDG on Sunday. Seasonal service until late October, 3 x week until early May, then 5 x week during the peak until mid-September, and back to 3 x week for the last month or so.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1509...s-non-stop-paris-vancouver-flights

Inaugural flight arrived about 30 minutes late and departed about 45 minutes late but AF website is showing on-time arrival at CDG. The French ambassador to Canada was part of the welcoming delegation. Expect there will be some photos or video eventually with the usual water cannon salute, although based on currrent YVR weather report the water cannon salute may have been redundant.
http://weather.gc.ca/city/pages/bc-74_metric_e.html
http://weather.gc.ca/warnings/report...c42#937527201927744167201503290502

Info for the media on the inaugural event at YVR.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/story/1509...ht-from-paris-to-land-at-yvr-today

Westbound, AF374
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR374

Eastbound, AF379
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AFR379

Wonder if this will affect DL's SEA-CDG LFs.

Quoting ana787 (Reply 1): Wonder if this will affect DL's SEA-CDG LFs.

Honestly the two markets are quite insular from each other. First they are not *that* close, there is something like 200 kilometers (120 miles, a two+ hour drive) between the two cities and no continuous conurbation. Second there is actually surprisingly not that much political/social/economic ties between them. And finally, because of customs and the higher fares, no one from the SeaTac region would drive up to YVR except to fly direct to elsewhere in Canada. The only real overlap in the market is the Canadians who would drive down to SEA for the lower fares and wider network but this only makes sense when the final destination is within the US. No point in clearing U.S. customs to fly to a third country.

All this to say that I don't think SEA-CDG will see competition from the AF flight. They serve very distinct markets.

I don't think this route is seasonal anymore. A couple of months ago, I remember reading on Air France's Twitter acct that dates in Winter 2015 were available.

I just checked Airfrance.ca. Flights are still available on Days 1,3 and 5 from Nov 2015-March 2016

[Edited 2015-03-29 16:53:25]

Quoting ana787 (Reply 1):

If anything, I would expect it to affect the KL AMS-YVR service.

Quoting Allee (Reply 3): I don't think this route is seasonal anymore. A couple of months ago, I remember reading on Air France's Twitter acct that dates in Winter 2015 were available. I just checked Airfrance.ca. Flights are still available on Days 1,3 and 5 from Nov 2015-March 2016

Yes that seems to be correct.
http://airlineroute.net/2014/11/25/af-yvr-w15/

Congrats, let's hope it works

AF 772 after landing YVR from the following newspaper item. Nice rainy day.
http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Fra...vice+Vancouver/10930203/story.html

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 4): If anything, I would expect it to affect the KL AMS-YVR service

i have no doubt this route will work. France/Canada West market has yet to be developed and the French have yet
to discovered Western Canada. Give it some time it will work well.

I think with the low Canadian $, there is room for both KL and AF. Delta ex Seattle was pulling in a fair number of AMS and CDG bound passenger
out of Vancouver.

KLM is planning daily this winter YVR-AMS, from what I understand?

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 8): KLM is planning daily this winter YVR-AMS, from what I understand?

This is incorrect.

The KL/AF schedules are closely coordinated. Yes, YVR-AMS has been doing extremely well for KL over the years and load factors were very high during summer, reason for AF/KL to introduce the 5x/week YVR-CDG routing in S15. The group is expanding capacity by electing to move YVR up to a two hub service (AMS and CDG). AF/KL have adopted this dual hub approach in many stations were traffic demanded multiple daily service (PTY, BOG, LIM, GIG, EZE, SCL, etc)

Yes, AF will operate 3x/weekly in winter, but this will count as expansion for the group AF/KL.

Therefore KL remains 5x/weekly in W15.

TBH I find it hard to believe this was not already a route. Western Canada is a decent sized market, and Air France can offer a lot for european travel.

It can't be soon enough for me! I booked 2 trips back and forth on this AF flights already for this year. I have to say the fare was great, and connection time at CDG was much shorter than KL via AMS.

The flight is not daily, but if you happen to want to fly on those days when AF does not fly the route, KL flights are offered as AF flights operated by KL.

I am also quite impressed with the VIP list at the inaugural event. The French ambassador and a national minister. AF really knows how to get people's attention.

[Edited 2015-03-30 00:33:14]

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 4): If anything, I would expect it to affect the KL AMS-YVR service.

Actually not.

As the KLM YVR route worked pretty good, AF started to send their own bird. That's the way it works with AF and KLM.
Just like for instance, the BOG route. AF is doing well, so KLM is starting the route itself.

V

I think I agree with most so far. They both can work just like in YYZ. KL has 2 flights daily in the summer in YYZ. I wonder how many connections there will be beyond Europe from YVR?

Also, I think if it plays out anything like in ON, I usually find flights from Canada to Europe cheaper than crossing the border to BUF or DTW.

Is it a codeshare flight with DL/VS?

Quoting YYZAMS (Reply 13): Is it a codeshare flight with DL/VS?

Yes. The route carries DL codes, DL8305 / DL8306.
For example, the DL desktop timetable shows LAX-YVR-CDG as a legal routing for LAX-CDG.

Quoting GE9X (Reply 2): The only real overlap in the market is the Canadians who would drive down to SEA for the lower fares and wider network but this only makes sense when the final destination is within the US. No point in clearing U.S. customs to fly to a third country.

You would be surprised by the numbers of people who do it. When I was working in YUL, many people going to Europe would drive or take the bus down to BTV to add a border crossing and a connection or two (sometimes as far out of the way as ORD)to save some airfare $$. The only effect of this is to deplete the YUL flights of the cheapest travelers, with whom airlines don't really make money; so it's probably not a big deal, as they'd rather sell these seats at a higher fare at the last minute to people who want them. However this was pre-JV days, and pre-recession, so it's likely that things have now changed.
I would be surprised if people in YVR don't also do it, they may start their journey in SEA or Bellingham, but not necessarily on the DL SEA-CDG flight, rather on any SEA-US hub flight.

Salut...view from a spotter.

Quoting A320fan (Reply 10): I find it hard to believe this was not already a route.

Air Transat has operated seasonal YVR-CDG service, normally with a stop at YYC, for the past couple of years. This summer it looks like it's up to 3 x week.

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 4): If anything, I would expect it to affect the KL AMS-YVR service.

Cant comment on the pax side, AF would not have done it if they thought both services would not compliment each other. However, it will certainly decimate KLM's cargo yields. Their best revenue was West Africa routes with little competition by funneling it over to CDG for AF. Now it will go direct. KL also have holds to fill ex YYC, YUL, YYZ and soon YEG too. They have a lot of spare capacity already and AF certainly do not help in this regard.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 15): I would be surprised if people in YVR don't also do it, they may start their journey in SEA or Bellingham, but not necessarily on the DL SEA-CDG flight, rather on any SEA-US hub flight.

It works more for Hawaii and US flying. Not that this is conclusive by any means, but I have consistently found that when looking to fly to Europe via SEA by the time you have paid to get there you lose that saving. Generally you either have to pay to park plus the gas or to avoid that the bus or train are so slow you generally have to overnight in a hotel. Flying YVR-SEA as a standalone fare is big bucks too, even with the intro of DL.

Quoting A320fan (Reply 10): Western Canada is a decent sized market, and Air France can offer a lot for european travel.

There is a bit of everything in YVR, but I would not say there is exactly a huge connection to France here, a lot more Brits, Irish, Dutch and Germans and not insignificant Italian, Slavic and eastern European communities too. In terms of Euro connections, AF do not really offer anything that KL, BA and LH do not already - apart from choice of course which is always good. Very small to non existent West African population here which is what AF really brings to the table. Also I believe that connections through AMS and LHR T5 are much better than CDG.

Anyway, always happy to see a new carrier here and I wish them well!

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18): Also I believe that connections through AMS and LHR T5 are much better than CDG.

I avoid LHR connections regardless of terminal as any airport operating at about 99% capacity is more prone to delays and disruptions when anything unusual occurs (e.g. weather events). I fully agree with the AMS vs CDG comment. I would never choose CDG to connect if there was an AMS option. Far more pleasant and convenient.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18): In terms of Euro connections, AF do not really offer anything that KL, BA and LH do not already - apart from choice of course which is always good. Very small to non existent West African population here which is what AF really brings to the table. Also I believe that connections through AMS and LHR T5 are much better than CDG.

I beg to disagree. If I were to fly BA I'd have the option of a) spending a night in London on my own dime OR b) taking some bus service or taxi from LHR to LGW, again on my own dime, and probably have my lugguage not arriving with me. And that is because at VCE we have been blessed with ONE daily flight to LHR. Nonetheless almost all secondary cities in Europe are only served by LGW. Like I mentioned in my post, connectivity is great for me at least, with AMS having an annoying layover of 3-5 hours.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18): Also I believe that connections through AMS and LHR T5 are much better than CDG.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19): I would never choose CDG to connect if there was an AMS option. Far more pleasant and convenient.

I don't agree, as now AF operations at CDG are focused on Terminal 2F (Schengen area and France) and Terminal 2E (all international long-haul and medium-haul flights, where YVR, YUL and YYZ depart and arrive).

Now the system for connections is very easy and well organized, in my opinion you walk less than in AMS.

What a great welcome!

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 21): Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18): Also I believe that connections through AMS and LHR T5 are much better than CDG. Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 19): I would never choose CDG to connect if there was an AMS option. Far more pleasant and convenient. I don't agree, as now AF operations at CDG are focused on Terminal 2F (Schengen area and France) and Terminal 2E (all international long-haul and medium-haul flights, where YVR, YUL and YYZ depart and arrive). Now the system for connections is very easy and well organized, in my opinion you walk less than in AMS.

I'd much rather walk at AMS than deal with connecting at CDG which I've always found confusing and unpleasant. And far more staff at AMS speak fluent English than at CDG. They could also do a better job of keeping the terminal cleaner. And too many of my flights to/from CDG have parked at remote stands requiring a tedious bus trip to/from the terminal. That almost never happens at AMS except for the CityHopper regional flights which are also quite convenient even with the buses. AMS is just an altogether much more pleasant airport, by far my preferred major hub in Europe. I'll only use CDG if the fares are significantly lower, which is rarely the case when comparing KL and AF fares.

Quoting AirGabon (Reply 21): I don't agree, as now AF operations at CDG are focused on Terminal 2F (Schengen area and France) and Terminal 2E (all international long-haul and medium-haul flights, where YVR, YUL and YYZ depart and arrive). Now the system for connections is very easy and well organized, in my opinion you walk less than in AMS.

  

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): I'd much rather walk at AMS than deal with connecting at CDG which I've always found confusing and unpleasant. And far more staff at AMS speak fluent English than at CDG. They could also do a better job of keeping the terminal cleaner. And too many of my flights to/from CDG have parked at remote stands requiring a tedious bus trip to/from the terminal. That almost never happens at AMS except for the CityHopper regional flights which are also quite convenient even with the buses. AMS is just an altogether much more pleasant airport, by far my preferred major hub in Europe. I'll only use CDG if the fares are significantly lower, which is rarely the case when comparing KL and AF fares.

I can only agree with AirGabon. You obviously haven't been at CDG2F/2E for a while. Connections are a breeze now.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): I'd much rather walk at AMS than deal with connecting at CDG which I've always found confusing and unpleasant. And far more staff at AMS speak fluent English than at CDG. They could also do a better job of keeping the terminal cleaner. And too many of my flights to/from CDG have parked at remote stands requiring a tedious bus trip to/from the terminal. That almost never happens at AMS except for the CityHopper regional flights which are also quite convenient even with the buses. AMS is just an altogether much more pleasant airport, by far my preferred major hub in Europe. I'll only use CDG if the fares are significantly lower, which is rarely the case when comparing KL and AF fares.

When did you last transfer at CDG?

Great to see this new service; can't believe it took this long. Will be flying AF from YVR to DXB via CDG very soon and looking forward to the service.

Quoting GE9X (Reply 2): Quoting ana787 (Reply 1): Wonder if this will affect DL's SEA-CDG LFs. Honestly the two markets are quite insular from each other. First they are not *that* close, there is something like 200 kilometers (120 miles, a two+ hour drive) between the two cities and no continuous conurbation.

   I've said it a few times on here too because people here just look at google maps and naturally think there's this huge market in YVR for SEA flights. People not from this area don't realise that traffic in Vancouver and in Seattle is HORRENDOUS in the mornings and evenings and that makes the commute exponentially worse if your timing isn't right. Unless you can afford to go down mid-day and stay in a hotel in SEA overnight, you face rough traffic getting out of Van all the way down 99 to the Massey Tunnel and even worse traffic on the I-5 corridor between Everett and Seatac. What should take about 2.5 hours takes 3.5-4 hours on most days to drive from YVR to SEA.

Quoting GE9X (Reply 2): Second there is actually surprisingly not that much political/social/economic ties between them. And finally, because of customs and the higher fares, no one from the SeaTac region would drive up to YVR except to fly direct to elsewhere in Canada.

Disagree; there are definitely social ties between Seattle and Vancouver. The two cities have very similar demographics (young, upper middle class, politically progressive/liberal, green, lots of immigration, etc). The sports teams are a great example - the Seahawks are HUGE in British Columbia (the Seahawks 12th man flag was flying in front of the provincial parliament in Victoria and in Surrey back in January/February) and have a very close following here. Likewise, I was in Seattle for one of the 2011 Stanley Cup games between the Canucks and Bruins and there was a large, noticeable Canucks following in Seattle at that time. People from Vancouver routinely drive down to Marysville and Woodburn, OR for the outlets/shopping and to Seattle for both Seahawks/Mariners games and for concerts. My only point is, it's not substantial in the same way that half the people in Nova Scotia follow the Boston Red Sox and Bruins (and they have a 'Nova Scotia Day' at Fenway for Sox games every spring), but to say there is 'surprisingly not that much social ties' between Seattle and Vancouver is misleading.

Quoting CPA62 (Reply 8): Delta ex Seattle was pulling in a fair number of AMS and CDG bound passenger out of Vancouver.

This was also before the Canadian currency took a nosedive. At .80 cents to the dollar, I don't think SEA is pulling as many passengers out of YVR as they were when the two currencies were at parity AND fares at SEA were cheaper over the last few years.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 18): It works more for Hawaii and US flying.

   With the exchange rate what it is, add an extra 20-25% to any fare that is sold in USD if you are Canadian; this is usually the great equalizer and over the last few months it has been the same price or cheaper to fly out of YVR instead of SEA to destinations in Europe/Asia for people who actually live here. If it's the same price or cheaper to fly out of YVR, why in God's name would you spend 3-4 hours driving down to SEA.

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 15): I would be surprised if people in YVR don't also do it, they may start their journey in SEA or Bellingham, but not necessarily on the DL SEA-CDG flight, rather on any SEA-US hub flight.

Have you seen any of the other threads on a.net about declining Canadian traffic at US airports due to the currency problems and the weak CAD? Anyone can go on kayak right now and price to similar flights, one from YVR and one from SEA. Adjusting for the exchange rate, it's almost always either about the same price, or cheaper to fly out of YVR right now. It's a 3-4 hour drive from YVR to SEA and it's a 90-120 minute drive even to BLI if you don't go mid-day or late at night with the border queues and traffic on BC 99. There have been multiple articles from the newspaper in Bellingham, WA recently that have mentioned the decline in passenger traffic at BLI is connected to the declining Canadian dollar. So, other than flying out of BLI or SEA to go to Hawaii or other US destinations, I sincerely doubt any long haul international flight out of SEA or connecting from BLI will poach a significant number of YVR area passengers in the near future. This won't change until the Canadian dollar gets stronger again, and that might not happen for a long time.

Quoting AF682 (Reply 25): Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): I'd much rather walk at AMS than deal with connecting at CDG which I've always found confusing and unpleasant. And far more staff at AMS speak fluent English than at CDG. They could also do a better job of keeping the terminal cleaner. And too many of my flights to/from CDG have parked at remote stands requiring a tedious bus trip to/from the terminal. That almost never happens at AMS except for the CityHopper regional flights which are also quite convenient even with the buses. AMS is just an altogether much more pleasant airport, by far my preferred major hub in Europe. I'll only use CDG if the fares are significantly lower, which is rarely the case when comparing KL and AF fares. When did you last transfer at CDG?

Last April, DUS-CDG-GVA. That was OK since both flights used the same terminal but 2F was still very crowded and quite dirty.

I've connected on KL at AMS 14 times since then, and again twice next weekend.

[Edited 2015-03-31 18:54:23]

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 26): Unless you can afford to go down mid-day and stay in a hotel in SEA overnight, you face rough traffic getting out of Van all the way down 99 to the Massey Tunnel and even worse traffic on the I-5 corridor between Everett and Seatac. What should take about 2.5 hours takes 3.5-4 hours on most days to drive from YVR to SEA.

Agree, I would never plan to drive to SEA for a flight departing the same day. Border crossing wait and traffic beyond, especially from about Everett south, is too unpredictable. It was bad enough when I lived in YVR in the '70s and '80s. Must be much worse now.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 23): I'd much rather walk at AMS than deal with connecting at CDG which I've always found confusing and unpleasant. And far more staff at AMS speak fluent English than at CDG. They could also do a better job of keeping the terminal cleaner. And too many of my flights to/from CDG have parked at remote stands requiring a tedious bus trip to/from the terminal. That almost never happens at AMS except for the CityHopper regional flights which are also quite convenient even with the buses. AMS is just an altogether much more pleasant airport, by far my preferred major hub in Europe. I'll only use CDG if the fares are significantly lower, which is rarely the case when comparing KL and AF fares.

I've heard this before. I've also connected at CDG a few times and never seem to have all those problems myself. It was just fine.

I wish AF would come back to SEA. The two best long haul coach experiences I've ever had was AF SEA-CDG, and NH SJC-NRT. (Amazingly one of my best domestic coach experiences ever was OO/AS SEA-FAT on a CR7).

That was cool having AF in SEA.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 26): Great to see this new service; can't believe it took this long. Will be flying AF from YVR to DXB via CDG very soon and looking forward to the service.

You will get to fly the new refurbished cabin on the CDG-DXB leg!  

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 29): I wish AF would come back to SEA. The two best long haul coach experiences I've ever had was AF SEA-CDG, and NH SJC-NRT. (Amazingly one of my best domestic coach experiences ever was OO/AS SEA-FAT on a CR7). That was cool having AF in SEA.

I know! That was such a great flight. Let's hope for a quick return to the great Seattle!!  

V

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 29): (Amazingly one of my best domestic coach experiences ever was OO/AS SEA-FAT on a CR7).

Just out of curiosity, what made it so good? Not meant as criticism, just wondering, because OO isn't what I think of when I think of a great regional (ever flown Porter? Amazing service!). 10-15 years ago I regularly flew the QX SEA-PDX shuttle on CR7's and it was great; free craft beer, happy employees. Now when I fly YVR or YYJ to SEA on QX the FA's seem pissed off and there's no service at all because of the flight time, so it's been a while since I've had QX's free local craft beer. Does OO offer this on AS flights?

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 28): Border crossing wait and traffic beyond, especially from about Everett south, is too unpredictable.

Actually it has become a bit more predictable from Everett to Seatac, on either I-5 or 405.. What I mean by "predictable" is that it's now consistently horrible, congested and time consuming between about 7am-10am and 3pm-7pm on weekdays. There has been an influx of people moving into Seattle suburbs in the last 10 years that was accelerated by the recession in the US. I read somewhere last year that two of the most popular destinations for people leaving/moving out of California were Oregon and Washington, and there are a significant number of people from the northeast and midwest who have moved into the Seattle and Portland areas too. Infrastructure hasn't kept up and it's been a disaster. I listen to NPR from Seattle on the radio and every morning the traffic report is predictable - ~2 hours to get from Everett to Tacoma! Every time I drive down there on a week day in the morning or evening it is a disaster.

Quoting zoulastar (Reply 30): You will get to fly the new refurbished cabin on the CDG-DXB leg!

  

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 31): I've had QX's free local craft beer. Does OO offer this on AS flights?

Yes, AS insisted that the former QX flights that are turned over to OO still provide free beer and wine.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 31): Just out of curiosity, what made it so good?

See above for what made it so good. My beer glass was never empty (I truthfully told the F/A that we were just walking across the street to the hotel in FAT). The F/A was very nice and attentive.

Same with my NH SJC-NRT and AF SEA-CDG flights in coach. Nice flight attendants and my wine glass was never empty.

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 26): With the exchange rate what it is, add an extra 20-25% to any fare that is sold in USD if you are Canadian; this is usually the great equalizer and over the last few months it has been the same price or cheaper to fly out of YVR instead of SEA to destinations in Europe/Asia for people who actually live here.

One of the passenger on Sunday's inaugural YVR-CDG flight who was interviewed by the media is a college student from Seattle traveling with a friend going to Europe. She stated the AF flight ex-YVR was the best deal she could find. She didn't say whether she took a flight from SEA to YVR to connect to the AF service or simply took ground transportation up north, but I'm wondering if the strong USD relative to the CAD could be a factor in the pricing deal she alluded to.
http://globalnews.ca/news/1910762/air-france-lands-in-vancouver/

If that's the case and the CAD continues to slide, could there be a reverse trend of those in the US Pacific NW coming up to YVR to fly transpacific & transatlantic? In general, are there significant number of passengers ex-SEA & ex-PDX who connect in YVR to go to Europe or Asia?

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 33): I'm wondering if the strong USD relative to the CAD could be a factor in the pricing deal she alluded to.

I doubt she intended to take advantage of the exchange rate, but that is what she's inadvertently doing. My guess:
1.) Flights on new routes/service are always discounted, so she probably got a hell of a deal on AF's inaugural flight.

2.) Flights ARE cheaper right now out of YVR, plain and simple. I know this is hard for some Americans to accept given that the trend in the past has been the other way around, but do your own research and do the math. On kayak right now, SEA-CDG non-stop (only offered by DL) is $1400 USD for a one week trip, roundtrip, in mid-April. The same route on the same dates, non-stop (on AF) from YVR-CDG, is $1200 CAD. Adjusted for the exchange rate, that is $950 USD. So, by flying out of YVR instead of SEA, she saved $450. That is a substantial savings.

Quoting AirStunt (Reply 33): If that's the case and the CAD continues to slide, could there be a reverse trend of those in the US Pacific NW coming up to YVR to fly transpacific & transatlantic? In general, are there significant number of passengers ex-SEA & ex-PDX who connect in YVR to go to Europe or Asia?

It can't be understated right now how much more affordable it is to fly out of Canada versus the US to Europe/Asia/Africa, due in large part to the declining Canadian dollar combined with other forces (including, thus far, relatively low inflation). This is why I continue to make the repeated argument on a.net that US airlines/routes will not be poaching too many Canadian customers on international routes in the near future given that it is cheaper for Canadians to fly overseas from Canada right now, and that's fact, backed up by simple economics.

To respond to your comment, I don't think there's a flood or exodus of Americans going to Canada to fly overseas right now, but I think that's due in large part to a relative lack of awareness among Americans about how much significantly cheaper it is to fly via Canada right now. Conversely, most Canadians are acutely (and painfully) aware of our currency's recent and substantial decline, and so we are far less likely to go to the US to fly when we can save a lot of money and time by flying from home.