TK KTM Crash Landing Video From Inside Cabin

TK787 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:35 am

I just happened to see this and wanted to share, looks pretty authentic:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLUriZPqIM&feature=youtu.be

[Edited 2015-04-02 04:39:22]

[Edited 2015-04-02 04:52:47]

TK787 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:38 am

Couldn't find part 2 but here's part 3:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7Y65quulU

aircatalonia · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:47 am

Looks like they slammed the plane on the runway "a la southwest"

[Edited 2015-04-02 04:50:33]

migair54 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:56 am

terrible landing, I don´t even understand why did they try to land in such a bad fog, they are lucky.

In the video 3 you can see some of the crew, some of them are carrying the first aid kits, but some of them have their luggage... that´s something they will have to check, bad for the pax evacuating a plane with carry on... not acceptable for crew at all.

zkokq · Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:57 am

For those who like clickable links..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLUriZPqIM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7Y65quulU

andrej · Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:12 pm

Thanks for sharing! I am sure it will be quite informative not only for investigation purposes, but also to learn and improve from mistakes/errors made by the crew (i.e. not to put direct blame on anybody, but to enhance safety for all involved).

Cheers,

Andrej

mandala499 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
terrible landing, I don´t even understand why did they try to land in such a bad fog, they are lucky.

From the moment they entered the hold, then the 1st approach, then went around, then the final landing, took... 1 hour 41 minutes... with at least 20 minutes between go-around and leaving the hold at the end of the missed approach, before recommencing approach (without holding at the 1st holding position)... they have not had enough fuel to divert.

The video 1 only showed about 4 seconds between when the ground is visible and touchdown... and I don't see the runway lights on.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
In the video 3 you can see some of the crew, some of them are carrying the first aid kits, but some of them have their luggage... that´s something they will have to check, bad for the pax evacuating a plane with carry on... not acceptable for crew at all.

And whole the fire crew doused the right engine, 1 pax at 3:14 in video 3, were smoking while taking pics of the aircraft...

What we don't know is did the captain order an immediate evacuation or just an evacuation because they were "stuck there" with no/little fire risk. But for the crew to have taken their luggage, well, they had to make sure the airplane is empty in a non-life threatening situation, and they could take their time... (but yes, not a good idea to do so then hang around with the pax without their luggage). But looking at the number of pax taking their handcarry, it seems that the crew didn't decide on an immediate evacuation. And this was evident on the 1st video with the cockpit crew not announcing evacuation (but the cockpit master warning alarm was going on in the background), and then the engines were shut down slightly later. By 1 minute and 20 seconds after the aircraft had come to a stop, evacuation hadn't commenced.

But seeing the videos makes me think... "geez... heck of a difference" with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kXUfwXZY4I (Where the cabin crew tried to get pax to get out quickly without taking anything as smell of fuel got inside) So... was TK726 an "urgent evacuation" or not?

migair54 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
What we don't know is did the captain order an immediate evacuation or just an evacuation because they were "stuck there" with no/little fire risk. But for the crew to have taken their luggage, well, they had to make sure the airplane is empty in a non-life threatening situation, and they could take their time... (but yes, not a good idea to do so then hang around with the pax without their luggage). But looking at the number of pax taking their handcarry, it seems that the crew didn't decide on an immediate evacuation. And this was evident on the 1st video with the cockpit crew not announcing evacuation (but the cockpit master warning alarm was going on in the background), and then the engines were shut down slightly later. By 1 minute and 20 seconds after the aircraft had come to a stop, evacuation hadn't commenced.

But seeing the videos makes me think... "geez... heck of a difference" with http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kXUfwXZY4I (Where the cabin crew tried to get pax to get out quickly without taking anything as smell of fuel got inside) So... was TK726 an "urgent evacuation" or not?

Evacuation is always a tricky thing, Cockpit crew have to wait for Captain to order evacuation (unless they suspect the cockpit crew is incapacitated), mainly because after the crash the cabin crew has to perform the On Ground evacuation Checklist, it´s basically securing the plane, Parking brake, Shutting down engines, fuel pumps, emergency lights... then give the command of Evacuate, Evacuate... it should take more or less 1 minute, usually less if done properly.

I said it´s tricky because it create panic, chaos and usually people get scare and some minor injuries occur, so Crew must be sure it is necessary, In this case it is of course.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
From the moment they entered the hold, then the 1st approach, then went around, then the final landing, took... 1 hour 41 minutes... with at least 20 minutes between go-around and leaving the hold at the end of the missed approach, before recommencing approach (without holding at the 1st holding position)... they have not had enough fuel to divert.

That´s a bigger mistake than the landing itself if it´s true they didn´t have enough fuel, that bad decision create the rest of the problems, when the plane reaches the minimum diversion fuel or even before, there should be no question, divert, refuel and wait for weather to improve.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
And whole the fire crew doused the right engine, 1 pax at 3:14 in video 3, were smoking while taking pics of the aircraft...

One thing i was thinking, every time I do my recurrent training about fire I´m told when fuel (liquids) is a factor they should use foam and not water, otherwise fire (Fuel) spreads with the water, don´t you think they should have used Foam instead of water??

LawnDart · Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:26 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
But looking at the number of pax taking their handcarry, it seems that the crew didn't decide on an immediate evacuation.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
(Where the cabin crew tried to get pax to get out quickly without taking anything as smell of fuel got inside) So... was TK726 an "urgent evacuation" or not?

Urgent evacuation? Evidently not! From around 5:10 through 5:20 in the second video (Part 3), you can see what appears to be the cabin crew standing around... most of them with THEIR luggage!

mandala499 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
when the plane reaches the minimum diversion fuel or even before, there should be no question, divert, refuel and wait for weather to improve.

There lies the problem. If you reach minimum diversion fuel, you divert... don't wait for weather to improve.
One issue here could have been the long missed approach procedure and the distance between the missed approach holding end point to the initial approach fix was bigger... so by the time they reached the missed approach holding, they may have missed diversion a bit... (it wouldn't be the first time someone screwed up a rule of thumb mental calculation)... but, this is a hard one to bite...

A388 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:38 pm

Looking at the first video, I see the aircraft approaching the runway and all of a sudden it slams the runway but when the person who is filming turns the camera to film the cabin I see people already standing while that camera is still shaking a lot (I assume due to the aircraft not having come to a full stop yet). Because of this it looks like the passengers weren't even aware or told that the aircraft was almost touching down on the runway? Am I seeing this right or what am I missing?

A388

debonair · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
Evacuation is always a tricky thing, Cockpit crew have to wait for Captain to order evacuation (unless they suspect the cockpit crew is incapacitated), mainly because after the crash the cabin crew has to perform the On Ground evacuation Checklist, it´s basically securing the plane, Parking brake, Shutting down engines, fuel pumps, emergency lights... then give the command of Evacuate, Evacuate...

Well, not in the companies I have worked for! The rule was always to start an evacuation after standstill, regardless of any command from the flight-deck, in case of fire/black smoke, forced water landing and gear failure...

Quoting LawnDart (Reply 8):
you can see what appears to be the cabin crew standing around... most of them with THEIR luggage!

There seems a LOT problems with the training or emergency rules - this video shows following crew errors (normally standard in every international airline):
1. no shouting of "Brace/Safety Position" after the gear collapsed
2. emergency commands given only once, not twice
3. no emergency equipment taken from board the a/c by the crew
4. no head count, nor group leading on the ground
5. and worst part, crew collect their own luggage

This crew needs most urgently re-qualify for emergency procedures...

mandala499 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 10):
I see the aircraft approaching the runway and all of a sudden it slams the runway but when the person who is filming turns the camera to film the cabin I see people already standing while that camera is still shaking a lot (I assume due to the aircraft not having come to a full stop yet).

On the video the aircraft touched down at 2:29
Aircraft stopped at about 2:46 to 2:50 No one was seen standing at 2:50
Cockpit crew announcement (most likely remain on station (for the cabin crew) which is "wait/standby while we assess the situatin") at 3:06
Engines shut down at 3:10 whilst cabin crew tells people to (remain seated (?) and) unfasten seatbelt.
3:28 is the first instance in the video showing people standing up.

During the roll between 2:29 and 2:46, there were footage of the cabin with people with their hands up... but not standing.

Dreamflight767 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting debonair (Reply 11):
There seems a LOT problems with the training or emergency rules - this video shows following crew errors (normally standard in every international airline):
1. no shouting of "Brace/Safety Position" after the gear collapsed
2. emergency commands given only once, not twice
3. no emergency equipment taken from board the a/c by the crew
4. no head count, nor group leading on the ground
5. and worst part, crew collect their own luggage

This crew needs most urgently re-qualify for emergency procedures...

It also distributes me they are all huddled around each other. They should all be interacting with PAX checking on them.

Very shameful TK.

mandala499 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting debonair (Reply 11):
Well, not in the companies I have worked for! The rule was always to start an evacuation after standstill, regardless of any command from the flight-deck, in case of fire/black smoke, forced water landing and gear failure.

Over here it's whenever there's fire/smoke (doesn't have to be black smoke), forced water landing, and (a) main landing gear(s) failure, and whenever there's an obvious abnormality and cockpit doesn't answer cabin crew's calls or acknowledge through some other way (varies from company to company).

It differs from country to country, but yes, I agree, deficiencies are obvious for some in this video.

Quoting debonair (Reply 11):
1. no shouting of "Brace/Safety Position" after the gear collapsed

Main gears? Nose gear? or any Gear?

Quoting debonair (Reply 11):
2. emergency commands given only once, not twice

The disturbing part for me here is that in such an abnormal situation and where the cockpit says something other than an evacuation, the verbal commands are just... not stern enough... let alone do it twice.

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 13):
Very shameful TK.

Proof that when the fecal material hits the fan, Skytraxx and other awards are just that... fecal... :p

max999 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:12 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 7):
Evacuation is always a tricky thing, Cockpit crew have to wait for Captain to order evacuation (unless they suspect the cockpit crew is incapacitated), mainly because after the crash the cabin crew has to perform the On Ground evacuation Checklist, it´s basically securing the plane, Parking brake, Shutting down engines, fuel pumps, emergency lights... then give the command of Evacuate, Evacuate... it should take more or less 1 minute, usually less if done properly.

I said it´s tricky because it create panic, chaos and usually people get scare and some minor injuries occur, so Crew must be sure it is necessary, In this case it is of course.

Have there been past incidents where passengers decided to self evacuate before crew announced it because they were in immediate danger?

And are passengers within their right to self evacuate if they feel there's imminent danger and the crew haven't announced an evacuation?

mandala499 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting max999 (Reply 15):
And are passengers within their right to self evacuate if they feel there's imminent danger and the crew haven't announced an evacuation?

If they did not reasonably try to raise alarm and initiated evacuation themselves, no, they are not. Over here we've had passengers jumping out of a plane when the engine had a smoky start... and on a runway excursion (a simple overrun with no landing gear collapse and the airplane was intact, no damage), a passenger decided to evacuate by running to the front left exit, when the cabin crew told the passenger to remain seated he punched the purser screaming "murderers", and proceeded to open the door and jumped out. So no... they are NOT within their right to automatically initiate an evacuation if they feel there's imminent danger and the crew haven't announced an evacuation.

wiss · Thu Apr 02, 2015 4:57 pm

Slightly off topic, but will this plane be repaired or it will be a write off? Any news about its status?

andrej · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting wiss (Reply 17):
Any news about its status?

There are rumors that TC-JOC will be written off. So far nothing official.

But do check this thread:

How Is The Repair To TC-JOC Doing? (by TC957 Mar 31 2015 in Civil Aviation)

More information:

http://avherald.com/h?article=482a5e9e&opt=0

A388 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12):
During the roll between 2:29 and 2:46, there were footage of the cabin with people with their hands up... but not standing.

You are correct, I mistook those hands for people that were standing and combined with some overhead bins open I thought those were standing passengers but they were hands. I assume those overhead bins opened due to the hard impact of the aircraft on the runway(?)

A388

MHTripple7 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 13):
It also distributes me they are all huddled around each other. They should all be interacting with PAX checking on them.

Very shameful TK.

I'll second this, TK really sh*t the bed. Does anyone know what happened to the cockpit crew? Hopefully they were all terminated at the very least.

northstar80 · Thu Apr 02, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 6):
From the moment they entered the hold, then the 1st approach, then went around, then the final landing, took... 1 hour 41 minutes... with at least 20 minutes between go-around and leaving the hold at the end of the missed approach, before recommencing approach (without holding at the 1st holding position)... they have not had enough fuel to divert.

Not enough fuel to divert; I dont think this is a fact, and I dont think this is correct. I work close to the airline and I am together with TK pilots all the time, but this is the first time I heard of someone saying that they did not have enough fuel to divert. From what I know, they still had fuel to divert if they did go around 2nd time.

TW870 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:28 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 15):
Have there been past incidents where passengers decided to self evacuate before crew announced it because they were in immediate danger?

There is no explicit law in the U.S. that governs this - but I am not sure about other places. When I was a flight attendant, we trained on being proactive with events like engine torching during start or even compressor stalls followed by aborted takeoffs. Those events have scared passengers and made them think the engine is "on fire" or "exploding". If a passenger opens an overwing exit after torching, it is not a "crime". It is confusion. All the crew can do is get to the impacted area and calm the passengers with information.

Oshkosh1 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:30 am

Sooooo...where's the crash??

a320fan · Fri Apr 03, 2015 1:48 am

Were the runway light approach lights on?

Looking at this video, you can see bright lead in lights along the center line, yet the runway itself has no lead in lights.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmqDRp0drxQ

TheRedBaron · Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:26 am

Way to destroy a new aircraft ! I once tried to land in LAX and the same thing very low clods and minimums were not met, divert to TIJ waited 90 minutes and then it was clear....

Better safe than sorry

TRB

Dreamflight767 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:05 am

I'll also throw in, this being TK's second major crash in recent years makes me question their safety training & culture.

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 20):
Quoting Dreamflight767 (Reply 13):
It also distributes me they are all huddled around each other. They should all be interacting with PAX checking on them.

Very shameful TK.

I'll second this, TK really sh*t the bed. Does anyone know what happened to the cockpit crew? Hopefully they were all terminated at the very least.

Their body language is almost stand-offish...almost like "don't bother us," "we aren't here," "find help else where"...etc.

mandala499 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:24 am

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 21):
Not enough fuel to divert; I dont think this is a fact, and I dont think this is correct.

And I just checked the text again and I forgot to put the word... "may"

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 21):
From what I know, they still had fuel to divert if they did go around 2nd time.

The question isn't if they had enough fuel to divert if they went around the 2nd time... the question is, would they stil had it after a 1 hour and 40 minutes of holding... Emphasis on the long hold. The last time I heard a TK flight may have gotten cornered into a "commit" was due to a prolonged holding as well (but they diverted safely to a nearer alternate than the one they wanted, and that was after shuffling some airplanes around to allow them to get in)...
Anyway, if true, these rarely happen anyway.

FlyboyOz · Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:04 am

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12):
1. no shouting of "Brace/Safety Position" after the gear collapsed

Nobody knew what happened to the aircraft and where it was. It took long time for the pax/crew to figure out what happened. They thought that it was not an accident.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 12):
3. no emergency equipment taken from board the a/c by the crew

Of course they did (you mean first aid bag?).... That guy filmed that cabin crews in the beginning... of course captain was with them. I could not believe that they brought their suitcases.

LONGisland89 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:59 am

I played the video frame by frame and it appears they didn't even land on the pavement. At the point of touchdown the aircraft is completely off the left side of the runway. All the articles/information I've read said they landed and then exited the runway.

[Edited 2015-04-03 01:12:59]

MEA330 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:02 am

sources at Airbus say they are on their way to fix it at KTM.
but will be a long and VERY expensive process.

mandala499 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:02 am

Quoting FlyboyOz (Reply 28):

Did you mean to quote someone else?

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 29):
At the point of touchdown the aircraft is completely off the left side of the runway.

It is quite possible, but seriously, I don't think the airplane even flared...

AR385 · Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 20):
I'll second this, TK really sh*t the bed. Does anyone know what happened to the cockpit crew? Hopefully they were all terminated at the very least.

Do you have the final incident report?

Why should they be terminated? Retraining and maybe temporary demotion but terminating? What is the reason you think that should be the consequence?

litz · Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:25 pm

I wonder how much grass/mud ended up sucked through the engines ... in the video during the 'landing', you can see there's a ton of the stuff being blown all about, both from the offroad transit of the plane, and (presumably) the reversers in operation ...

sq_ek_freak · Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:06 am

Right so as someone who used to be cabin crew that video kind of hit me harder than I thought it would.

The cabin crew did the right thing right after the crash landing, ordering the passengers to unfasten their seat belts before the order to evacuate was given from the flight deck. But they didn't manage (or seem to even attempt to) keep the passengers from crowding the aisles or immediately reach for their bags.

What seems most damning to me though is that there's a group of them congregating WITH THEIR BAGS on the taxiway not assisting any passengers. Its one thing for passengers to leave with their bags in a panic, but pretty unforgivable for the crew to do that. How can we expect passengers to do as they are supposed to if the crew don't - look at the crew who oversaw the evac of QF 32 in Singapore - what a contrast. The CSD was the last cabin crew off the plane and not one bag made it off with the pax. And what's worse is that passengers seem to be still evacuating aircraft through the slides while it looks like a significant chunk of the A330 cabin crew compliment already evac'd the aircraft before them (bags and all) and aren't doing anything to assist. That in my eyes as ex-cabin crew is pretty unforgivable. Seems like two of the male cabin crew took the the first aid kits with them which in theory was the right thing to do, but serves no purpose if you're not doing anything with them - there might not have been a need for them, but you wouldn't know that while your passengers are still going down the slides and you're on the taxiway with your colleagues chatting about what just happened and not overseeing the evacuation.

In my humble opinion the video shows more than it intended to - some pretty appalling stuff from that group of TK crew.

[Edited 2015-04-03 19:07:26]

777Jet · Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting zkokq (Reply 4):
For those who like clickable links..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GkLUriZPqIM&feature=youtu.be

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sr7Y65quulU

Thank you, sir!

I really like and prefer 'clickable' links

spacecadet · Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting litz (Reply 33):
in the video during the 'landing', you can see there's a ton of the stuff being blown all about, both from the offroad transit of the plane, and (presumably) the reversers in operation ...

I think most of what you see in the video is from the landing gear digging into the grass/dirt. The video is shot from pretty much just behind the gear.

a320fan · Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 36):

Quoting litz (Reply 33):
in the video during the 'landing', you can see there's a ton of the stuff being blown all about, both from the offroad transit of the plane, and (presumably) the reversers in operation ...

I think most of what you see in the video is from the landing gear digging into the grass/dirt. The video is shot from pretty much just behind the gear.

I'm not sure. It looks like the aircraft is stationary already when we see all the dirt blowing back.

RickNRoll · Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting A320fan (Reply 37):
I'm not sure. It looks like the aircraft is stationary already when we see all the dirt blowing back.

The engines change their tone as well, as if they are chewing up dirt.

Aesma · Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:42 pm

Quoting MHTripple7 (Reply 20):
I'll second this, TK really sh*t the bed. Does anyone know what happened to the cockpit crew? Hopefully they were all terminated at the very least.

Hopefully they were not, otherwise it would be a sign the airline doesn't want to improve, instead placing quick blame on the crew.

notaxonrotax · Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:52 am

Any news on this airframe perhaps?

No Tax On Rotax

TK787 · Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 40):

Latest I have heard, TK send a pretty sizeable technical crew to KTM and with Airbus they are trying to save this frame. It might take 6 months or longer. Not sure where are they planning on flying it to get this done. First thing they will fix it to fly it to a tech facility.

notaxonrotax · Fri Apr 17, 2015 11:42 am

6 months!
If they commit themselves to such a long time, I guess it's not a write off.

Enjoyed a little jaunt in a Turkish A332 today, hence my question.
The flight to Basel returned to base due to a bomb thread but luckily I had no issues.

My only observation was the gianormous queue for take off at IST!

Cheers,

No Tax On Rotax

TK787 · Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:28 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 42):

Sorry to hear that, seems like TK getting those threads daily. I hope they take every single one of them seriously and don't get complacent. How long was the queue? My record was 14 during lunch hour, I guess that is not that bad these days.

JOYA380B747 · Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:22 am

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 40):
Any news on this airframe perhaps?

Flew in and out of KTM 4 times 2 weeks back and this A332 is still sitting in the tarmac on the other side with logos removed and nose drooped. Since it has been pushed pretty far back on the other side of the terminal apron area, not much can be understood from afar except that nothing much seems to have bee done till now.

The regular TK flights still land as per schedule, with the injured Mamma overlooking them. Wow!

The pic below is taken by me, low quality I know, sorry about that....

notaxonrotax · Fri May 01, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 43):
How long was the queue? My record was 14 during lunch hour, I guess that is not that bad these days.

20 aircraft, according to the Captain.

No news, anybody?
In between all the mayhem in Nepal, I don't think the Airbus repair is of great priority.

No Tax On Rotax

Who is online

Popular Searches On Airliners.net