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Spacepope
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 26):

since the 762s are all retired, who cares?

Several ex HP 752s used on the Hawaii runs have over 100000 hours . They need to be replaced by something.
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StlHsvSfoSan
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:05 am

I don't know if this means anything, but it looks like AA sent a 787 to PHX (and STL) a couple times in the last week.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AAL9770

I assume these are just training flights ?
 
DeltaXNA
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:05 am

If BA can use a 744 all these years, then AA can easily make it work with a 772. The 77W would do well, however it would do far better on some other routes.

[Edited 2015-04-03 22:30:08]
 
KD5MDK
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:42 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 44):
They can in the sense that there's nothing legally stopping them...

...but they have a JV that likely includes reciprocity requirements (similar to what DL/AF/etc's JV does).

So if BA gives up 350+ seats to AA LHR-PHX, that's fine, but BA's going to have to make up that capacity elsewhere in the N.Am system. They can swap out another extant flight (e.g., JFK/ORD-LHR) frequency with AA, or they could add additional routes (e.g. MSY/STL-LHR) to bring the balance back into synch.

BA has already replaced AA in BOS-LHR and more of the flights for JFK-LHR compared to the start of the Joint Venture. I'm not taking any position on this particular change, but if anything AA needs to increase TATL flying to make up for those changes.
 
strfyr51
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:21 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 1):





Could see the HNL thing happening, perhaps.
Sincerely doubt the LHR thing though... unless we hear of some quid pro quo in another market, that equalizes the capacity tradeoff.

Why? BA and AA are both OW are they not? There's no real loss for either of them and no quid pro quo even necessary..
With 2 carriers flying the load neither might stand to break even. But with one carrier sharing the load for BOTH?
They could both be profitable Especially until the route get's too big for one carrier. PHX is Parker's home Turf coming form America West.
I do not find it surprising he threw them a Bone just like Philadelphia. I'm Surprised he hasn't yet seemed to commit to CLT like I thought he would.
I'm not saying he Didn't. I just thought it would be a center piece... Frankly? I'm surprised United didn't do more at CLT.
They didn't have any problem sopping up the gravy when it was on the plate.
But they don't want to cook a meal there and I think that might be some good business they're passing up.
IMHO.
 
afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:13 am

Quoting spacepope (Reply 50):
since the 762s are all retired, who cares?

The 762 did not work on CLT-HNL in part because of too many diversions related to range and they discontinued it. No 763s were in the US fleet to deploy that aircraft on route and now there are with the AA merger.
 
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drerx7
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:59 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 26):
US discontinued CLT-HNL largely because the 762 diverted too frequently. The range of the 762 was the issue as that is the aircraft that was flown on that route and the diversions were due to the range of that aircraft.

Loads/yields were not that great either...or service. It was a long miserable flight.
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etops1
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:24 pm

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 43):

Both . There will be no 777's or 767-300 operating out of PHX anytime soon .. This is just all a complete unfactaul rumor ..
 
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 12:44 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 53):

AA have increased non-LHR Europe, so the proportions are fairly constant overall
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uberflieger
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 31):
a separate configuration (Hawai/Caribbean)

  
A high density 763 configuration would improve CASM DFW-HNL/OGG, and be an ideal plane to re-start ORD-Hawaii, an inexcusable gap in American's (Chicago) network.
Both PHX & LAX benefit from their geography. They are within range of the 752 & A321neo, ideal planes to operate at higher frequency.
 
commavia
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 31):
AA should do like DL and UA and do like they themselves did in the 80s and 90s and have a separate configuration for Hawaii (Hawaii/Caribbean for AA) and stop flying J configured 763s DFW to Hawaii, which is no more premium than PHX. Or at least have a small sub-fleet of standard domestic configuration with regular F seats where they could also use on other domestic markets too.
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 59):
A high density 763 configuration would improve CASM DFW-HNL/OGG, and be an ideal plane to re-start ORD-Hawaii, an inexcusable gap in American's (Chicago) network.

The trade-off, of course, is scheduling flexibility. If you had a separate configuration just for Hawaii, it would effectively limit how those airplanes could be swapped out and exchanged with other 767s on other routes in the case of OSO, a plane going tech, etc. The added complexity would also add cost.

AA did, indeed, for years operate separate aircraft configurations (with DC10s and then, at least initially, also 767s) just for Hawaii. But given all the places the 767s have long flown for AA, and how small a segment of that flying is dedicated to Hawaii, the economics likely didn't work to configure jets just for that mission. It likely did make senes back in 2000 - when AA was flying more 767s to Hawaii, including regularly on LAX-HNL, plus the now-gone ORD-HNL and SFO-HNL routes. At this point, configuring 767s just for Hawaii would essentially be configuring 767s just for DFW-HNL/OGG, which really requires no more than 4-5 jets max, out of a stated future fleet of nearly 30. Hard to imagine that making economic sense.

All that being said, I actually do agree that reconfiguring more of the 767s - up to, in a few years, perhaps the entire remaining fleet - may make sense as the 787 takes over more and more of the 767's longhaul missions. If AA were to decide that those 767s still have some useful life in them, albeit more on high-density domestic and/or MIA-Latin America/Caribbean routes, then it isn't hard to imagine the 767s getting a new layout with a smaller, less-premium F/J cabin and more Y.
 
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cathay747
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:38 pm

Quoting cornishsimon (Reply 30):
I'm fairly certain that the BA LHR-PHX goes back to a 4 class 744 service for winter 15/16 same as the other routes such as LAS

Oh? Source?

The emailed letter they sent to frequent flyers clearly indicated that
this was a permanent change, and it's clearly being done in markets
where they aren't selling F-class (PHX/LAS/YVR/CPT and I want to
say BOM...can't remember)...and they stated that given how they
are refitting only some of their 744's with the new F hard product
they didn't feel they could justify charging a F fare on what they feel
would be a sub-standard product. So they're selling the F-cabin as J.

As you may or may not know, the non-refitted 744's are the ones being
retired earliest, so I see that eventually, PHX will be changed to either a
J/W/Y 3-class 772, which of course would be a pretty big capacity cut,
or maybe at that time they'll bring back F-class by using a 4-class 77W
to keep capacity close to what it is now with the 744. Now mind, that's
my crystal ball at work, but it's what I see happening.
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afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 60):

The trade-off, of course, is scheduling flexibility. If you had a separate configuration just for Hawaii, it would effectively limit how those airplanes could be swapped out and exchanged with other 767s on other routes in the case of OSO, a plane going tech, etc. The added complexity would also add cost.

AA did, indeed, for years operate separate aircraft configurations (with DC10s and then, at least initially, also 767s) just for Hawaii. But given all the places the 767s have long flown for AA, and how small a segment of that flying is dedicated to Hawaii, the economics likely didn't work to configure jets just for that mission. It likely did make senes back in 2000 - when AA was flying more 767s to Hawaii, including regularly on LAX-HNL, plus the now-gone ORD-HNL and SFO-HNL routes. At this point, configuring 767s just for Hawaii would essentially be configuring 767s just for DFW-HNL/OGG, which really requires no more than 4-5 jets max, out of a stated future fleet of nearly 30. Hard to imagine that making economic sense.

I think it would make more sense to have just a domestic configuration, at least for one widebody type aircraft. American had three DC10 configurations, the standard one for domestic, three class for international and select flagship transcon, and Hawaii/Caribbean. The Hawaii/Caribbean ones only had three rows of first class, instead of six, and it shared it's movie screen with the forward coach section. The cabin dividers were largely hollow and coach had a full view of first class. Since the A300s were only ordered for Caribbean and Latin America, they initially only had one configuration and it was high density with the same set up as the DC10 Hawaii/Caribbean configuration, 3 rows of FC (only 2 rows on one side so just 16 seats instead of 18 like the DC10) with a mostly hollow cabin divider sharing the movie screen with coach, but they later flew it on routes such as BOS-LHR too and changed the configuration on some IIRC. I also believe they flew the A300 on their morning flight JFK-LHR too back when they had a daytime flight and it was new.

I don't ever remember AA having a separate configuration for Hawaii/Caribbean on the 767, just a separate domestic and international one, but I have never flown AA to Hawaii on anything other than a DC10. There is no reason AA should go to three configurations on the 767 today, just as there is no need for lie flat seats from DFW-LAX or JFK-MIA or other places it has appeared recently. Having one standard domestic configuration for the 767 would allow them to fly it more efficiently in domestic markets other than just Hawaii and they would therefore have more than 4-5 aircraft. They could also then reintroduce it from not just ORD but the west coast too, where UA and DL and HA still operate wide body aircraft to Hawaii.



[Edited 2015-04-04 08:28:52]
 
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cageyjames
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 3:55 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 59):
They are within range of the 752 & A321neo, ideal planes to operate at higher frequency.

Can an A321neo do PHX-LIH in the summer?
 
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compensateme
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:17 pm

There's no reason to fly the 763 PHX-HNL. Not for capacity (AA's configuration is premium-heavy), not for the premium cabin, not to rotate crews/equipment. The 757 will simply make more money for AA in this market. The perpetual cargo arguments are tiring. Unless AA's hauling bars of gold to the old HPdbaUS HQ, there's little money in it; oodles of capacity exist into Hawaii such that rates for cargo are cheap.
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phillyramp270
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:43 pm

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 63):

Hell no!!! a PHX Summer... Yeah rite
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alasizon
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 4:49 pm

PHX-Hawaii does need a capacity upgrade or a more capable aircraft in some way. The old 752s flying the route now are often weight restricted and break often. If they can bring in some legacy US or legacy AA 752s to replace these old HP birds, that would be great.

During the high periods for Hawaii, it would be nice to see a 763 on PHX-HNL but the times would have to be adjusted because I can't see them just letting a 763 sit in Phoenix, it would have to be a turn to/from Dallas or Chicago. (Chicago could give them same plane service for the missing link).
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cageyjames
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 65):
Hell no!!! a PHX Summer... Yeah rite

That's my thinking too. If a A321neo can't do PHX-Hawaii what is the replacement of 752s and 763s?

Either they stop flying, some sort of A321neoLR option or it's a 788 at that point.
 
cle757
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:10 pm

Any chance of ever seeing UA flying PHX-HNL maybe with the 739er?
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uberflieger
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 60):
reconfiguring more of the 767s - up to, in a few years, perhaps the entire remaining fleet - may make sense as the 787 takes over

  
A high density configuration for Hawaii, some Caribbean & Latin American markets, and rotating them for maximum use on high volume domestic runs seems totally possible.

Quoting cageyjames (Reply 67):
If a A321neo can't do PHX-Hawaii what is the replacement

An A321 variant  
According to www.Airbus.com: A variant of the A320neo (new engine option) with maximum takeoff weight of 97 tonnes will have the longest range of any single-aisle aircraft – 4,000 NM. – while being able to fly 164 passengers in a comfortable three-class layout. This variant was launched by Airbus in January 2015, with the first deliveries set for 2019
 
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 65):
Hell no!!! a PHX Summer... Yeah rite

Are PHX runway lengths a factor?
 
UsAir737
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:23 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 68):

With the 739ER range and performance issues I doubt it. I don't mean to start anything but the -900ER is a dog especially in hot and high airports. I don't think the 321 could do it either
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 70):

I'm not sure.. But I know one thing.. It's the sheer PHX heat. It's usually 110 degrees in the city. And add another 10-15 degrees at the airport

Even in philly we weight restrict the crap out of all the airbuses and rarely the 757
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jc2354
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 9:53 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 44):
So if BA gives up 350+ seats to AA LHR-PHX, that's fine, but BA's going to have to make up that capacity elsewhere in the N.Am system. They can swap out another extant flight (e.g., JFK/ORD-LHR) frequency with AA, or they could add additional routes (e.g. MSY/STL-LHR) to bring the balance back into synch.

I don't mean to be argumentative, or even start an argument. It's a case of "I just don't understand".

Regarding PHX, if an AA 777 replaced a BA744, why would BA have to send it elsewhere in N.Am? Could they not send it to Japan, Africa, or South America?

Or, am I just being taking it too literal?
If not now, then when?
 
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cathay747
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting cle757 (Reply 68):
Any chance of ever seeing UA flying PHX-HNL maybe with the 739er?

Why would they want to, with HA and US/AA firmly entrenched in the
market? It would be suicide, as I seriously doubt the market could
sustain a 3rd carrier, even with a 737 (of any pedigree).
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chrisair
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:33 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 72):
It's usually 110 degrees in the city. And add another 10-15 degrees at the airport

Not sure what Phoenix you're talking about, but it's very rare for the air temperature to be 120-125 degrees at Sky Harbor. I've lived in Arizona for 13 years and I can count on one hand how many times PHX has hit 120 or above. On the ramp: it's easily over 140, but that's irrelevant, unless you work downstairs.

The "official" weather station for Phoenix is the airport. Downtown is generally "warmer" than the airport since there's a lot more concrete to suck up the heat...
 
910A
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 74):

There were four carriers at one point, TZ, AQ (1-stop at SNA) HA, and HP/US.

[Edited 2015-04-05 11:10:28]
 
elmothehobo
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 70):
Are PHX runway lengths a factor?
Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 72):
I'm not sure.. But I know one thing.. It's the sheer PHX heat. It's usually 110 degrees in the city. And add another 10-15 degrees at the airport

At a certain point the issue becomes not about runway length, but about aircraft performance, and climb gradients The hotter it gets, the thinner the air (the higher the density altitude), the more degraded the engine performance. In order to meet departure requirements, you can either wait for temperatures to cool down or lose weight.
 
afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting elmothehobo (Reply 77):
At a certain point the issue becomes not about runway length, but about aircraft performance, and climb gradients The hotter it gets, the thinner the air (the higher the density altitude), the more degraded the engine performance. In order to meet departure requirements, you can either wait for temperatures to cool down or lose weight.

That's what I thought, otherwise I would think PHX would have 15000 foot runways, they have plenty of room in the desert.
 
BD338
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:47 am

Quoting afcjets (Reply 78):
otherwise I would think PHX would have 15000 foot runways, they have plenty of room in the desert.

please check Google Earth. PHX is in the middle of the metro area with major freeways and highways all around the airport, and a river bed. No room for a 15,000 foot runway. It is not in the middle of an empty desert dustbowl.
 
afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:30 am

Quoting BD338 (Reply 79):
please check Google Earth. PHX is in the middle of the metro area with major freeways and highways all around the airport, and a river bed. No room for a 15,000 foot runway. It is not in the middle of an empty desert dustbowl.

I am talking about when they developed it. If longer runways would have helped aircraft takeoff with heavier weights during the hot summers I am sure that would have gone into the initial design, or at least by 1983 when HP started their hub there. I would think if PHL can extend a runway 1500 feet, PHX could find a way too if they had to, or they could have by the early 1980s.
 
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cathay747
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting 910A (Reply 76):
There were four carriers at one point, TZ, AQ (1-stop at SNA) HA, and HP/US.

True, and look what happened to TZ & AQ...mind you not because of
their PHX-Hawaii service, but I'm still of the belief the market couldn't
support more than HA & US/AA now, at this point, given HA's loyal
following and long-term entrenched status, and PHX being a hub for
US/AA.
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austwin
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 pm

I checked the US and AA websites for JULY and they still show the 757 as the aircraft on the PHX-HNL route. Hmmm.
 
robt760
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:34 am

If there are no widebody aircraft coming into PHX from one of the other hubs, that would mean dedicated 763 for the PHX- Hawaii route. Sounds doubtful this will happen.

AA taking over the PHX-LHR route? Who knows. Again, no widebody aircraft currently coming into PHX, where would they get the aircraft?

On a side note (since we are on the topic of heavies).....They're sure been doing alot of test flights with the 787 into Phoenix (and STL) Not sure what sense that makes, as it's doubtful either one of these stations will ever see scheduled service of a 787.
 
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chepos
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:15 am

Quoting robt760 (Reply 83):

PHX is a diversion airport for the 787, that is why it has been visiting the station so frequently. The aircraft has also been to a number of other stations (eg. TUL, STL, etc) as they are considered diversion stations and need to be familiar with the aircraft.
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jfk777
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting chrisair (Reply 75):
The "official" weather station for Phoenix is the airport. Downtown is generally "warmer" than the airport since there's a lot more concrete to suck up the heat...

And the Ramp at Skyharbor Airport is made from what ? Concrete, with no trees for shade which downtown has. The ramp at the airport is hotter then hell.
 
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cathay747
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:55 pm

Quoting robt760 (Reply 83):
If there are no widebody aircraft coming into PHX from one of the other hubs, that would mean dedicated 763 for the PHX- Hawaii route. Sounds doubtful this will happen.

Actually I could see this, and with the US maint. base here,
they could do MX every night...might work. And of course
while turning @ HNL, the aircraft can be rotated with the
ones from DFW.
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compensateme
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 86):

Actually I could see this, and with the US maint. base here,
they could do MX every night...might work. And of course
while turning @ HNL, the aircraft can be rotated with the
ones from DFW.

AA isn't going to be performing maintenance on the 763 at PHX anytime soon and beyond that, most of you are missing the point:

-- there's no reason to rotate the 763 to/from PHX for crew positioning;
-- there's no reason to rotate the 763 to/from PHX for equipment positioning;
-- there's no reason to rotate the 763 to/from PHX for maintenance;
-- there's no reason to operate a 763 on PHX-Hawaii for range reasoning;
-- there's no justifiable reason to operate a 763 on PHX-Hawaii for cargo;
-- there's no justifiable reason to operate a 763 on PHX-Hawaii for capacity (it's premium heavy at AA).

It's possible that around the Christmas/New Year's Holiday and the heart of the winter AA may choose to briefly swap the 757 to the 763, but beyond that, this is just an unfounded rumor; the 757 will simply make more money for AA from PHX-Hawaii.
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ckfred
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 7):

I'd be shocked if was an AA 77W on PHX-LHR. I expect it would be an AA 772 in the new 2-class configuration.

I've said that PHX isn't strictly a leisure destination, which it was in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. But, I'm not sure there is enough premium demand for AA to put a 773 on PHX-LHR. The 2-class 772 would make more sense.

Quoting afcjets (Reply 18):
I would not count ORD as AA has not flown to Hawaii from ORD in what seems like almost a decade now.

AA still flies ORD-HNL during the winter holiday season (typically mid December to mid February). You're right that AA no longer flies ORD-HNL year-round, but I think the end of year round service was around 2008, when oil prices were so high.
 
afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting ckfred (Reply 88):
AA still flies ORD-HNL during the winter holiday season (typically mid December to mid February). You're right that AA no longer flies ORD-HNL year-round, but I think the end of year round service was around 2008, when oil prices were so high

When did they drop SFO-HNL?
 
aztrainer
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 80):
I am talking about when they developed it. If longer runways would have helped aircraft takeoff with heavier weights during the hot summers I am sure that would have gone into the initial design, or at least by 1983 when HP started their hub there. I would think if PHL can extend a runway 1500 feet, PHX could find a way too if they had to, or they could have by the early 1980s.

PHX has three runways 8/26 at 11,489ft, 7L/25R at 10,300ft and 7R/25L at 7,800ft. They could expand both 7L/25R (1,300ft) and 7R/25L (2,300ft) before running into the river bed that is a flood zone and construction is not permitted. You cannot expand 8/26 due to the proximity to the SR-143 and 44th St. PHX uses 8/26 and 7R/25L as landing runways and 7L/25R as their primary take-off runways. This is due to agreements signed by PHX and the city of Tempe to not have simultaneous take-off's to reduce the noise.

PHX has been land locked for a long time and even when HP started you had I-10 to the west and 44th St to the east. Just because you can see desert and bare ground does not mean that you can build something there.
 
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cathay747
Posts: 1500
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting compensateme (Reply 87):
AA isn't going to be performing maintenance on the 763 at PHX anytime soon and beyond that

Only reason I mentioned doing MX @ PHX while the airplane
overnighted here on such a hypothetical upgauge was that in
order to have only 1 frame do a day-in-day-out r/t they'd need
to do constant MX work to make sure the ship doesn't go tech
here as they'd have no stand-by frame; hence also my thought
that it could be routed thru DFW with other ships as well, i.e.
PHX-HNL-DFW-OGG-DFW-HNL-PHX, but all with an eye
toward not having the ship go tech here @ PHX.

But I'm getting out of this debate as everyone, incl. myself, seems
to think they know best; it's a waste of time, especially seeing as
how this is only a rumor anyway. Time will tell.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
wn676
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 80):
I am talking about when they developed it. If longer runways would have helped aircraft takeoff with heavier weights during the hot summers I am sure that would have gone into the initial design, or at least by 1983 when HP started their hub there. I would think if PHL can extend a runway 1500 feet, PHX could find a way too if they had to, or they could have by the early 1980s.

There wasn't a need to have them any longer for quite some time. Prior to 1996 I think the longest scheduled flights had been to HNL. And when there was still room to expand, I doubt anyone could have imagined that the airport would need 10,000'+ runways.

As for extending them today, there's the elevated I-10 restricting the westward expansion of the airport without a major realignment; to the east there are archeological ruins and the Salt River. 8/26 is about the longest any runway at Sky Harbor can be without another major fill section in the riverbed. The 25L RSA project already constricted that section of the river and raised the 100-year water line; there may not be much more that can be excavated without pushing the embankment into the landfill and industrial park off of 40th St.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
afcjets
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Tue Apr 07, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting wn676 (Reply 92):
There wasn't a need to have them any longer for quite some time. Prior to 1996 I think the longest scheduled flights had been to HNL. And when there was still room to expand, I doubt anyone could have imagined that the airport would need 10,000' runways.

I was just asking hypothetically if PHX had infinite runway length if that would solve the takeoff restrctions for certain aircraft during the hot summers month and so far the answer has been no. Even though I am not a pilot or mechanic, I am guessing at some point takeoff speed necessary to create lift during those extremely hot summer days for certain aircraft fully load with pax and fuel becomes a safety issue even if you had say a ten mile runway. If that is the case this whole argument of whether or not PHX has space is irrelevant. I used 15000 feet as DEN has the longest runway in the US at 16000 feet, so I would imagine anything beyond that length would not make a difference.

[Edited 2015-04-07 14:14:30]
 
AirStairs
Posts: 399
Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 6:47 am

RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 61):
Oh? Source?

The emailed letter they sent to frequent flyers clearly indicated that
this was a permanent change, and it's clearly being done in markets
where they aren't selling F-class (PHX/LAS/YVR/CPT and I want to
say BOM...can't remember)...and they stated that given how they
are refitting only some of their 744's with the new F hard product
they didn't feel they could justify charging a F fare on what they feel
would be a sub-standard product. So they're selling the F-cabin as J.

As you may or may not know, the non-refitted 744's are the ones being
retired earliest, so I see that eventually, PHX will be changed to either a
J/W/Y 3-class 772, which of course would be a pretty big capacity cut,
or maybe at that time they'll bring back F-class by using a 4-class 77W
to keep capacity close to what it is now with the 744. Now mind, that's
my crystal ball at work, but it's what I see happening.

First is bookable on PHXLHR from end of October/early November 15. They did not indicate it was a permanent change in the notification email however they did not provide a timeline for the reintroduction of F, which probably led many people to believe it would not happen.

PHX will remain a 744 service (with the new F reintroduced) largely due to cargo hauling requirements.

[Edited 2015-04-07 19:13:33]
 
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cathay747
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:57 pm

Quoting AirStairs (Reply 94):
First is bookable on PHXLHR from end of October/early November 15. They did not indicate it was a permanent change in the notification email however they did not provide a timeline for the reintroduction of F, which probably led many people to believe it would not happen.

PHX will remain a 744 service (with the new F reintroduced) largely due to cargo hauling requirements.

OK...I stand corrected!
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
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EA CO AS
Posts: 15743
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RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:49 am

UPDATE: Not that I believe this, but an IAM shop steward told me the management at AA in PHX has been notified of the supposed upgrade to 763 service to Hawaii and taking over the PHXLHR segment from BA with a 77W.

Either the union is woefully slow at getting their news/rumors (which wouldn't surprise me at all - it IS the IAM after all!) or there might be more to this.

I guess we'll see.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem - government IS the problem." - Ronald Reagan

Comments made here are my own and are not intended to represent the official position of Alaska Air Group
 
QualityDr
Posts: 56
Joined: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:57 am

RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:00 am

Quoting jmc1975 (Reply 4):
decided to turn to A.net to see if the rumor had any legitimacy

Maybe it's just me, but I'd say you have a future in comedy...  
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure. -- Mark Twain
 
wn676
Posts: 1747
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2005 5:33 am

RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:10 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 96):
UPDATE: Not that I believe this, but an IAM shop steward told me the management at AA in PHX has been notified of the supposed upgrade to 763 service to Hawaii and taking over the PHXLHR segment from BA with a 77W.

Either the union is woefully slow at getting their news/rumors (which wouldn't surprise me at all - it IS the IAM after all!) or there might be more to this.

I guess we'll see.

Chances are it's the same person that inspired this thread. It'd be great if true, but I wouldn't hold your breath.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.
 
TWA85
Posts: 359
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2012 10:06 pm

RE: RUMOR: AA Bringing Heavies To PHX

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:56 am

Something to keep in mind. AA's 77Ws have a premium heavy configuration. Does PHX have enough premium demand to justify allocating a premium heavy configured aircraft in the market? Would a 333 make more sense?

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