UsAir737
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PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:20 pm

Hey all
What routes could you see being launched as a result of the expansion in PVD? Condor will be bringing 2 763's a week starting late spring. Would a transcontinental from AA/US with a 319 work? Or would another TATL operator see success here? Thoughts?
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
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lesfalls
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:53 pm

TACV is starting service to Praia. Their is also a chance of SATA returning with the expansion of the runway!
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen mehr.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 04, 2015 7:17 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Thread starter):
What routes could you see being launched as a result of the expansion in PVD? Condor will be bringing 2 763's a week starting late spring. Would a transcontinental from AA/US with a 319 work? Or would another TATL operator see success here? Thoughts?

Any route that can be supported today, can be launched today, the primary limitation is aircraft type.

The runway extension is important so that there are never limitations placed on service. Yes a 73G and likely a 319 can do PVD-LAX today, but in 20 years from now, when demand warrants a 739, could it be done, likely not. Same is true for across the pond, people seem to be surprised to think that a 767 has no problem but a 737 does. Think of a Ryanair situation with a 737-Max8 ER (or whatever the hell its called) doing PVD-SNN/DUB. That would be a challenge going eastbound.

The "low hanging fruit" for the market can all be done today:

DFW-AA
MIA-AA
ORD -AA (UA flies it, but their schedule, aircraft and capacity levels are a joke)
DEN- WN return once they have aircraft to replace those tied up from thei competitive battles like DAL and DCA
MSP - Delta dropped alot of the longer RJ flights from MSP due to block hour constraints, Seasonal mainline can work no problem though
NYC - UA's EWR service is minimal and Amtrak Acela is over $300 r/t and runs painfully slow in Connecticut. AA/DL are good contenders though id love B6, its not realistic.

International:
YYZ - worked well for years with 3x DH3's but the 2x B1900 schedule it widdled down to, killed it.
PDL - the bulk of the Azores market is still closer to PVD, could be SATA, or could be someone else
LGW - all indications are that Condor service is booking well, a similar product on Thomas cook or someone else to London could work in the summer season.
CUN - Sat-only, seasonal could work like it does from many other similar sized markets
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 04, 2015 8:18 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):

US has always been the strongest legacy contender. Hoping AA will keep that trend alive. Love to see MIA DFW ORD and LAX added. I have my doubts about MIA due to the proximity to CLT I also doubt NYC because PHL offers similar connectivity.
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:16 pm

Runway 5-23 is slated to open on 12/7/17 at an extended length of 8700 feet. Its currently 7166 feet.
 
thegoldenargosy
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:23 am

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 3):
I have my doubts about MIA due to the proximity to CLT

I think it could work on an RJ.
 
tom11
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:13 am

The issue with PVD is it's close proximity to BOS. I'm really not sure how well the Condor service is going to work, and the same with the TACA. PVD is still seeing a decrease in overall traffic, down 6% in 2014.

BOS and BDL on the other hand have seen positive growth.

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 2):
YYZ - worked well for years with 3x DH3's but the 2x B1900 schedule it widdled down to, killed it.

AC pulled out of several markets in the northeast, including PWM, HPN, and ALB. With BOS so close, and so much cheaper, it wasn't worth flying out of PVD -- even when the Dash 8's were coming in.
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Reply 5):

I could see a CR9 working. Would DFW work with a 319? What about LAX?
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:19 pm

I think a Saturday only E75 to MIA would be a logical starting point and would do very well from PVD. If AA decided to do DFW, I would guess the 319 would be the best aircraft for the market.
 
tom11
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:59 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 8):
I think a Saturday only E75 to MIA would be a logical starting point and would do very well from PVD. If AA decided to do DFW, I would guess the 319 would be the best aircraft for the market.

Perhaps, but AA isn't known for running a lot of Saturday-only routes like WN and DL like to do. I think it would be very unlikely AA would start MIA-PVD unless it was daily.
 
RL757PVD
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Mon Apr 06, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 8):

I think a Saturday only E75 to MIA

Thats a nice plus to the US/AA merger that makes a sat only MIA possible, with CLT to support the operation.

Sat only year round is a given, but I'd think daily could be supported from mid-december to mid april.

DFW on a 319 is a given and long overdue

ORD - It would be effortless to become the preferred carrier over UA, even with 3x E175

This may sound aggressive, but keep in mine US has been the longstanding preferred carrier of the business community, so its not lke AA has to win over a new market like it would have pre-merger.

US/AA at PVD could be like DL is at BDL.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:06 pm

It all comes down to when AA has aircraft available. The Saturday only MIA could possibly done practically now versus committing an E75 or a 319 daily to do MIA and DFW respectfully.

I'm just not sure if AA wants to enter the PVD to Chicago market that has 2 carriers on it. I would love to be wrong though!
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 11):

UA is the only other "full service" carrier on the route. Also, WN serves MDW, greatly limiting the number of connection opportunities to cities other than those served by WN from MDW
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
RL757PVD
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:50 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 11):
I'm just not sure if AA wants to enter the PVD to Chicago market that has 2 carriers on it

True though if UA is going to fly it with an E145, I don't think it counts   That's practically rolling out the red carpet for AA.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:14 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13):

The airbuses and the occasional 73 return in the next month or so. UA runs non RJ equipment spring through fall and during peak times. Back in the day they ran 72's and 75's regularly. If AA came in offering better times more flights and consistently used E75, 319, 321 and 738 they would clean up!
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
tom11
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 12):
UA is the only other "full service" carrier on the route. Also, WN serves MDW, greatly limiting the number of connection opportunities to cities other than those served by WN from MDW

Given that WN serves a lot of cities from MDW, there is no shortage of connection opportunities. I wouldn't say MDW 'greatly limits' connection opportunities at all. The only thing you can't do at MDW would be international connections to Europe, etc; but that's really it -- as WN is bring Latin American destinations to MDW I believe.
 
Smalbany
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Thread starter):
Hey all
What routes could you see being launched as a result of the expansion in PVD? Condor will be bringing 2 763's a week starting late spring. Would a transcontinental from AA/US with a 319 work? Or would another TATL operator see success here? Thoughts

Just to give you something to compare to: A number of years ago, Albany increased its runway length from 7200 feet 8200 feet. As far as I know, there are no new routes that required the longer runway.
 
lat41
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting SmAlbany (Reply 16):
Just to give you something to compare to: A number of years ago, Albany increased its runway length from 7200 feet 8200 feet. As far as I know, there are no new routes that required the longer runway.

ALB is a little closer to Western destinations like PHX, LAS DEN etc. At PVD on very hot days or when the Jetstream is vigorous in Winter those type flights can be weight limited and less attractive for a carrier to want to operate. a 7200' runway is an impediment to year round, all weather, full boat operations at a place like PVD where the wind never stops and it's always doing "something" outside.
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 15):

No single stop Hawaii, no pacific, no Europe and most importantly no premium cabin offerings. Personally, I dislike WN cattle car seating and I know there are many others who are willing to pay for a premium J or F cabin. MDW's connectivity to the us is great if you are willing to fly Y class with unassigned seating...
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
2travel2know2
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Tue Apr 07, 2015 11:37 pm

WN should study once per week PVD-GUA.
PVD should check if CM likes to add secondary airports in North East USA to its network.
As of now it has FLL for MIA, VCP for GRU and PBC for MEX.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
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MKE22
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting UsAir737 (Thread starter):
What routes could you see being launched as a result of the expansion in PVD?

Listen, this may sound a little out there and like a "homer" MKE fan suggestion, but whatever.

MKE-BOS is low enough frequency at about 2x/daily that maybe MKE-PVD makes sense. Offers another option for PVD connections to travel TRANSCON and I'm not sure about space available at BOS, but this would be an alternative if WN doesn't want to add more middle-shelf service at BOS in favor of something new and more attractive.

MKE-BOS hasn't always been super important on the totem pole for WN, but MKE-PVD could be a good alternative for both airports. I know DL is adding MKE-BOS, but at just 1x/daily on an RJ-900, a 1% chance is still a chance! Just throwing it out there, you can all start throwing tomatoes now.   

Before you do though, anyone have the PDEW on MKE-BOS/PVD?
 
tom11
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:24 am

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 18):

No single stop Hawaii, no pacific, no Europe and most importantly no premium cabin offerings. Personally, I dislike WN cattle car seating and I know there are many others who are willing to pay for a premium J or F cabin. MDW's connectivity to the us is great if you are willing to fly Y class with unassigned seating...

There are millions of people who would disagree with you...judging by the very small amount of F seating, and relatively small amount of J seating, I would say most people tolerate Y class just fine. Southwest Airlines has no issues selling seats. Most people have no issues with Y or unassigned seating. What's the big deal?

Quoting MKE22 (Reply 20):
MKE-BOS is low enough frequency at about 2x/daily that maybe MKE-PVD makes sense. Offers another option for PVD connections to travel TRANSCON and I'm not sure about space available at BOS, but this would be an alternative if WN doesn't want to add more middle-shelf service at BOS in favor of something new and more attractive.

MKE-BOS hasn't always been super important on the totem pole for WN, but MKE-PVD could be a good alternative for both airports. I know DL is adding MKE-BOS, but at just 1x/daily on an RJ-900, a 1% chance is still a chance! Just throwing it out there, you can all start throwing tomatoes now.

Before you do though, anyone have the PDEW on MKE-BOS/PVD?

I don't think MKE would work for PVD. They struggled to get it to work for BDL (F9 tried it a couple of years back). I don't think this would work out.
 
lat41
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:20 am

United is shriveling up at many small and medium cities of late, certainly including PVD. I'm sure in the past few years most FFs have been driven away by dwindling choices and shrinking aircraft. United did not have enough product to sell pre-merger with a Continental that was just drifting along itself and now the product at PVD is anorexic.
At some point BOS will saturate and PVD in the middle of a large pool of population and business in Eastern CT RI and Southeastern MA with the new runway, northeast corridor rail station etc. will benefit but I doubt United will be a significant player even then.
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:37 pm

Ironically enough, UA is now showing a third frequency in July and August. Maybe they heard you guys on here!! Haha
 
RL757PVD
Posts: 3034
Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 23):

Ironically enough, UA is now showing a third frequency in July and August. Maybe they heard you guys on here!! Haha

Though one is still an ERJ, which is still a travesty for a market of 1.6 Million people and 4 million annual passengers to the 2nd largest airport in the country.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 24):

AA would clean house with 321, 319, 738 or E75
UA is dying at PVD
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
RL757PVD
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Joined: Fri Dec 03, 1999 2:47 am

RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 25):
AA would clean house with 321, 319, 738 or E75

Lets be realistic, AA would clean house with 3x E175  

If AA added 3x ORD E175, 1x DFW 319 and Sat only MIA, combined with the existing CLT (4-5x), DCA (5x) and PHL (7-8x), they would blow any other legacy/network carrier out of the water for local business.

Throw in a couple feeder RJs to JFK and you'd have New York, Chicago, Dallas, Washington, Miami, Philly and Charlotte all covered, making it one stop to anywhere in the world through their entire network, all while maintaining realistic levels of service too.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
UsAir737
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:05 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 26):

With that schedule they'd clean up. Add a couple of mainline flights to DCA and that would be an ideal schedule. I miss the 734's to DCA
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Fri Apr 10, 2015 4:04 am

^^ no arguments from me. Too bad you guys don't work for AA in route planning!
 
lat41
Posts: 612
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 12:23 pm

RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 28):
no arguments from me. Too bad you guys don't work for AA in route planning!

Or in tariff! so we could charge a small premium where appropriate to keep the yield a slice over BOS without charging $300.00 more for everything as had been the case with AA at PVD and other like cities.
 
PVD757
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RE: PVD Runway Expansion

Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:10 pm

Fares at PVD are very competitive until flights get close to full or inside 7 days. Thats when there is a huge difference between PVD and BOS. There is just so much more capacity in BOS, once PVD flights start to fill up, things appear out of whack.

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