Moderators: richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR
Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 1): In terms of carriers. I'm sure AA will lower CLT to about 400-500 daily departures. |
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2): What gives you this idea? |
Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 3): Well, you have JFK, PHL, DCA, CLT and MIA all within a couple hundred miles from another. CLT as busy as it is a little redundant. Similar to IAH during the UA/CO merger. Just more places to route pax rather than having 800 departures at a singular hub. |
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4): |
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 4): Just FYI, it's AA that's knocking on CLT's door for more gates. You don't want to see this place on a busy day. Every single US gate is occupied on just about every bank. Throw in a flight or two running late and they're playing musical chairs with gates and flights. |
Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 7): Let's say I'm coming from Somewhere West of Texas. What can CLT do that DFW, JFK, MIA and PHL can't? |
Quoting Sharktail (Reply 5): Forecasts call for an increase from 545,000 aircraft movements in 2014 to 930,000 in 2033 |
Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 3): Similar to IAH during the UA/CO merger. Just more places to route pax rather than having 800 departures at a singular hub. |
Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 10): If anything DFW & CLT can complement each other as a southern hub duopoly like Delta uses MSP & DTW in the northern midwest successfully. MIA/DCA are just like icing on the cake. |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): |
Quoting flyASAGuy2005 (Reply 15): |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): |
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 8): To me, it's the location of the gates more so than the number that is the issue. E is a bottleneck, and short of moving (or burying) the railroad tracks, there's no way to fix it. They need to move some of those parking positions to some vacant real estate elsewhere. |
Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 17): |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): Once that is complete, demolition will begin on their old offices, and work can begin for the new satellite concourse, Concourse F. I don’t know what they plan to do with F. Originally it was supposed to be new International Concourse replacing D, but I honestly don’t know at this point. I know the facility can hold up to 25 gates. |
Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 17): No, B6 is moving to A4 and United will be moving the rest of there ops to A8 A10 A11 & A12. |
Quoting afcjets (Reply 21): |
Quoting flyASAGuy2005 (Reply 19): |
Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 22): JetBlueCLT |
Quoting flyASAGuy2005 (Reply 23): |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): Renovations to Concourse B/C will begin soon as well, and I here new lighting, seating, and carpet will be installed. I believe the work will be done under AA’s watch, who will also add new GIDS systems throughout Concourses B/C/E. |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): Once that is complete, demolition will begin on their old offices, and work can begin for the new satellite concourse, Concourse F. I don’t know what they plan to do with F. Originally it was supposed to be new International Concourse replacing D, but I honestly don’t know at this point. I know the facility can hold up to 25 gates. |
Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 20): Wow. I didn't realize there were plans for a new concourse. All things considered, it's probably not the best timing with the AA/US merger. Hopefully it doesn't end up as a ghost terminal like STL/PIT (some wings) and CVG (Conc C) went through after mergers. |
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 2): Quoting IAHflyer97 (Reply 1): In terms of carriers. I'm sure AA will lower CLT to about 400-500 daily departures. What gives you this idea? |
Quoting USAirALB (Reply 14): The rental car companies will soon leave their satellite offices and move into the new consolidated rental car center. Once that is complete, demolition will begin on their old offices, and work can begin for the new satellite concourse, Concourse F. I don’t know what they plan to do with F |
Quoting airzim (Reply 28): Because traffic coming in from the Caribbean can now transit via MIA to US interior points. Or SE US traffic can transit DFW instead of CLT. Or Europe traffic over PHL/JFK/MIA/ORD. |
Quoting CV880 (Reply 30): Same old rebuttals that don't make sense as many of the smaller cities served via CLT are not served via MIA or DFW. Why would people from the SE USA want to transit over any of the northern hubs or backtrack over MIA to go to the larger European Cities already served from CLT? |
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 32): You must be thinking of what is currently A4. Current A2 is fairly new, installed around 2004. Formerly, that space was a stairwell labeled A that UA used to board RJs. |
Quoting CV880 (Reply 30): Same old rebuttals that don't make sense as many of the smaller cities served via CLT are not served via MIA or DFW. Why would people from the SE USA want to transit over any of the northern hubs or backtrack over MIA to go to the larger European Cities already served from CLT? |
Quoting flyASAGuy2005 (Reply 34): Quoting airzim (Reply 28): Are you familiar with US geography? I'm not trying to sound like an ass but to say DFW can do the same thing as CLT is beyond anything I've ever heard on here. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 35): However, can it continues to support 800 flights a day. Very likely not. It's not necessary and highly redundant. The same passenger today can transit SXM-CLT-CLE can also go via MIA. The same passenger going TPA-CLT-DEN, can now go via DFW. American can now maximize traffic flows which benefits network optimization. This is exactly what's happened in previous mergers and will happen again at AA, CLT is well placed N/S hub, something that AA didn't really have on the East Coast. This is a valuable asset to the combined company. By definition, hubs have an insatiable appetite for being fed. In order to have the breath and depth that CLT has today, you have to keep feeding it passengers. 800 flights/day at CLT not only made sense at US, it was required to keep the operation running (same with DL @ATL). There's not enough O&D alone to justify the size of the operations. But if you want to run 15 flights a day to NYC from CLT, you've got to get the passenger feed from somewhere other than CLT. That operation doesn't make a ton of sense in the new merged company. Simply because you run the risk of robbing Peter to pay Paul. Sending everyone over CLT from the Caribbean, risks your hub MIA operations. Same is true from South Florida, Europe, etc. It's all about tradeoffs. I happen to think that CLT will shrink to about 1/2 it's current size (still a very large hub), DFW, MIA, and ORD will remain about the same. PHL and LAX will see an increase and PHX is destined for a large spoke. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 35): Nor did I say that DFW or ORD could do the same thing as CLT in ALL markets. But back of the envelope it's close to 80%. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 35): However, can it continues to support 800 flights a day. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 35): I happen to think that CLT will shrink to about 1/2 it's current size (still a very large hub), DFW, MIA, and ORD will remain about the same. PHL and LAX will see an increase and PHX is destined for a large spoke. |
Quoting afcjets (Reply 36): AA has no interest slashing their most profitable and second largest hub in half |
Quoting airzim (Reply 37): Failing to see the forest for the trees |
Quoting commavia (Reply 38): Quoting airzim (Reply 35): However, can it continues to support 800 flights a day. I don't think CLT has 800 flights per day now - I don't even think it's up to 700. I believe DFW is the only AA hub over 800 (and the only hub of that scale overall other than ATL). |
Quoting commavia (Reply 38): And even with PHX, the hub I have personally long been the most pessimistic about, I don't think it will be relegated to merely a "large spoke." PHX is a relatively lower-yielding and less business-oriented market than AA's other hubs, and it's also quite competitive with the Southwest hub also there, but I think the sheer size of the market and still-not-insignificant corporate traffic there, let alone some level of connecting flows arguably better served than other places, will lead to some form of "hub" operation, albeit a smaller one. |
Quoting afcjets (Reply 39): Just curious, in your opinion, where are these 20 million passengers per year that AA would no longer route through CLT when they eliminate half their schedule there go? If you haven't been to Philly recently, they are not equipped to handle it, even if it made sense, which it doesn't. I don't think LAX would work either, and you said AA would keep DFW, MIA, and ORD, at the same size, not that they would work either. Do you think AA is not pleased with their overall yields and wants to turn it most of those 20 million passengers which PHL is not equipped to handle to Southwest or Spirit? Or do you think they will just increase fares even more? |
Quoting airzim (Reply 35): It's all about tradeoffs. I happen to think that CLT will shrink to about 1/2 it's current size (still a very large hub), DFW, MIA, and ORD will remain about the same. PHL and LAX will see an increase and PHX is destined for a large spoke. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 41): 3) You can always upgauge capacity and drop mid day flying. 4) Again for the third time, CLT is not going way and will still be a sizable operation. It will just be smaller and re-focused. |
Quoting CV880 (Reply 42): Yes and Delta/ATL will continue to rule the SE USA if You are AA's director of flight planning. Good for my pension stability. |
Quoting afcjets (Reply 43): It would be difficult for AA to upgauge CLT significantly based on what they are already flying there, their current fleet, and aircraft on order. You predicted AA would cut their schedule in half (which you later revised to 1/3), which is what I was responding to. Currently they fly almost 40 million passengers into or via CLT with average load factors around 90%. That is why I specifically addressed 20 million passengers. If you had mentioned AA abandoning CLT as a hub altogether, I would have addressed a number closer to 40 million. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 44): Do you talk in circles in your current line of business? I admitted my numbers were off, but the end argument or the final numbers haven't changed. |
Quoting airzim (Reply 44): DL already rules the SE. |
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 48): I think that may change. For most, or perhaps all, of the southeast, AA offers a superior set of hubs to DL. CLT (domestic) and MIA (southbound international) are roughly equivalent to ATL for most of us in the southeast. DFW and ORD are a far more useful set of west- and northbound hubs than DTW and MSP. NYC and LAX are washes, DL doesn't really have an analog to PHL for trips to Europe and the "interior" northeast, and having nonstop access to DCA is a nice bonus. |