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vfw614
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US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:18 am

Just wondering - which US airports in the contiguous US had a TATL service in the past and have lost it? I am talking about scheduled, year-round "standalone" services (i.e. not part of a multi-stop service that has a different departure airport for the TATL leg).

STL had nonstop flight to Paris and London at some point. Another is PIT which had nonstop flights to FRA and LGW. MSY had British Airways service to LGW and a National flight to AMS for some time. BNA had a London service as well (was that on AA?). BDL had, IIRC, an AMS service at some point. I seem to recall that Cleveland also had London nonstop pre-9/11.

Any others?

PS: As we are just at it - I am also wondering about airports with just a single year-round TATL route - places like RDU (to LHR), CVG (to CDG) or PDX (to AMS).
 
cle757
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:25 am

CLE lost LHR/LGW and CDG
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MVAair
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:31 am

PIT does have CDG.

BNA use to have CDG also.
STL had FRA for one or two summers and had BCal.
CLE had LGW then LHR
ANC has lost the most
BDL had AMS
SJC had CDG
MEM had AMS

I think SLC has just CDG
TPA has just LHR I think
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:46 am

[quote=MVAair,reply=2][/quoteTPA wil also have LH to FRA soon and they also have Edelwiess year round to ZRH. And BA flies to LGW, not LHR  

As for airports with only one TATL service, I can think of (that haven't already been mentioned):

AUS--BA to LHR
SAN--BA to LHR


     
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atcsundevil
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:02 am

BA PHX to LHR. Previously had LH to FRA.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:05 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 2):
I think SLC has just CDG
TPA has just LHR I think

Both SLC and TPA have more than one flight to Europe
Delta added SLC-AMS also in addition to CDG
Edelweiss also flies out of TPA to Zurich in addition to BA to LGW

PIT lost daily service but delta flies to CDG (its 5x a week and summer seasonal IIRC)

MEM, STL, ANC, CLE are all cities that had service to Europe for along time and lost service
 
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SANFan
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:28 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 3):
SAN--BA to LHR

SAN-London is also an example of the first question asked in the OP - routes that were, and then ended.

SAN-LHR has been op'd 3 times by BA; the first attempt was not nonstop (instead, direct service, first via LA and second, via PHX) but the second attempt at the route WAS nonstop and it ended fairly soon after 9/11.
The third time seems to be the charm -- the route was restarted in 2011 by BA and continues today, doing very well this time around!

(SAN-LGW was also served nonstop, briefly, by Zoom in 2008, which ended when Zoom ended!)

bb
 
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mayor
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:36 am

Quoting vfw614 (Thread starter):
MSY had British Airways service to LGW and a National flight to AMS for some time.

Wasn't a non-stop, but I believe the interchange that Delta had with Pan Am in the 70s, using the DL 747 (and DL DC-8-33s before that), originated in MSY to ATL and then IAD and on to LHR.

[Edited 2015-04-04 22:03:23]
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:57 am

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 3):
As for airports with only one TATL service, I can think of

Air Berlin to RSW is another one

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
SAN-LHR has been op'd 3 times by BA; the first attempt was not nonstop (instead, direct service, first via LA and second, via PHX) but the second attempt at the route WAS nonstop and it ended fairly soon after 9/11.
The third time seems to be the charm -- the route was restarted in 2011 by BA and continues today, doing very well this time around!

I flew LGW-PHX-SAN back in 1998, and had completely forgotten that SAN was ditched for several years. PHX has been served continuously from first LGW then LHR. While on the subject, when did PHX switch to LHR?
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ipodguy7
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:16 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 2):
BNA use to have CDG also.

Uhh, do you have any source to back this up? I never ever remember a CDG service (I wish there had been one, but no). I know AA served BNA-LGW for a year or two in the mid-nineties.
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savethequads
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:50 am

PDX LH A343 to FRA. But Condor is starting FRA service in summer.
 
zrs70
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:03 am

I believe People Express flew OAK-BRU

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vfw614
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:49 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 7):
Wasn't a non-stop, but I believe the interchange that Delta had with Pan Am in the 70s, using the DL 747 (and DL DC-8-33s before that), originated in MSY to ATL and then IAD and on to LHR

Wasn't there a BA service that continued from MSY to MEX?

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
PIT lost daily service but delta flies to CDG (its 5x a week and summer seasonal IIRC)

Will be daily for roughly 12 weeks this summer but is, as you mentioned, "only" a seasonal service.
 
rta
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 6:59 am

Quoting MVAair (Reply 2):
TPA has just LHR I think

I thought LGW via BA.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
Edelweiss also flies out of TPA to Zurich in addition to BA to LGW

LH has announced to FRA-TPA as well.


Quoting mayor (Reply 7):
Wasn't a non-stop, but I believe the interchange that Delta had with Pan Am in the 70s, using the DL 747 (and DL DC-8-33s before that), originated in MSY to ATL and then IAD and on to LHR.

That's not the service being discussed.
BA ran an L1011 on MSY-LGW-MEX starting in 1982.


Quoting vfw614 (Reply 12):
Wasn't there a BA service that continued from MSY to MEX?

  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
lpdal
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:09 am

Before Norwegian came into FLL, Condor only (and still does) flew during the summer to Frankfurt. So, for the remainder of the year, there was no scheduled service.

Now that we have Norwegian, that has changed. And, of course, MIA to the South has many options for translantic as well.

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aviatorcraig
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:29 am

Not a year round flight but Thomas Cook have an A330 winter 2015/16 sched LGW-RNO for the skiing crowd.
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ERJ170
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:52 am

RDU had Paris-Orly service....

Now only left with LHR.. But looking for a way to get FRA... (Preferably, on 787 or similar size aircraft)
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yenne09
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 12:20 pm

Did Bangor or Portsmouth ever have TATL services? I think Bangor had tech stop for Laker?
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:18 pm

CLE also had service on JAT to BEG.
 
DeltaRules
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:44 pm

DAB-DUS on LTU in the '90s. I guess it was L-1011 and MD-11 service.
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mayor
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 14):
Quoting mayor (Reply 7):
Wasn't a non-stop, but I believe the interchange that Delta had with Pan Am in the 70s, using the DL 747 (and DL DC-8-33s before that), originated in MSY to ATL and then IAD and on to LHR.

That's not the service being discussed.

That was just a historical side note.....nothing more. Having said that, this will probably bother you, too.......in the late 90s, early 2000s, DL had a one stop flight from SLC-JFK-to either CPH or AMS (sorry, don't remember which)......same flight number, same equipment.....but I don't believe it was marketed that way (767-300ER). It wasn't treated as an international flight until it got to JFK. They did all the paperwork, etc. that was necessary.
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BoeingGuy
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 5:53 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 11):
I believe People Express flew OAK-BRU

Norwegian is flying to OAK, so it no longer fits the OP's question.

Another city with only one transatlantic flight (seasonally) is RNO. PVD also has a new transatlantic flight.

As mentioned SJC had a transatlantic flight for six months in 2001.

MEM would count as a significant city that once had transatlantic service for a long period of time and no longer does. Not only did NW/DL fly to AMS, but KL served MEM at one point.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Thread starter):
PS: As we are just at it - I am also wondering about airports with just a single year-round TATL route - places like RDU (to LHR), CVG (to CDG) or PDX (to AMS).

SLC has had CDG service for the past 8 years, but will have it complemented with AMS service in 4 weeks. Rumors continue to abound about BA or DL & LHR service and even at one point 9 years ago VS talked about LGW and LH for FRA service..
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
MEM, STL, ANC, CLE are all cities that had service to Europe for along time and lost service

Condor has been flying to Anchorage for ages, and Icelandair flies to ANC, too.
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BostonBeau
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:54 pm

Let's not forget Hanscom Field in Bedford, MA (BED). Before jets, and before TWA served BOS domestically, TWA Constellations bound for Paris used to stop there.
 
jfk777
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Thread starter):
STL had nonstop flight to Paris and London at some point.

STL had European service because of TWA's legacy ego. It probably never made a dime flying from STL to Europe. Then Senator Danforth schuttled a deal between the USA and the UK because they would allow TWA back into Heathrow. In 1984 TWA Board of Director had two devils to choose from, they did the less evil deal with Icahn.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 10:39 pm

Up until ORD became Chicago's main airport, AF, BOAC and LH all had T/A service on their metal from MDW. I think TW also had a T/A 1, 2 or 3 days per week at some point into the 1950s. More recently, I think TZ had a 1-stop 757 to the Baltic region via JFK.
 
Prost
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:46 pm

If you're talking cities that have lost A TATL flight, SEA would fit the bill, as they lost SAS SEA-CPH.
 
Boeing727
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Sun Apr 05, 2015 11:52 pm

CVG had TATL flights to on DL to FRA (I immigrated to the US on that flight), LGW, AMS, ZRH and FCO, SABENA came from BRU and AirFrance from CDG.

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vfw614
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:28 am

What I find interesting is that the 787 is always sold as a door opener for long-haul services to smaller markets that cannot support anything else (not only because of size, but also of costs) - but it has not been used to resurrect services to markets such as CLE, BNA, STL. Instead, it brought the first long-haul ever to Austin.

While researching this topic I came across this article that suggests that TATL service to Nashville, Columbus, Indianapolis, St. Louis and Cleveland is under consideration:

http://www.tennessean.com/story/mone...ist-direct-london-flight/15417177/
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 5):
MEM, STL, ANC, CLE are all cities that had service to Europe for along time and lost service

ANC still sees Condor service during the winter.

Quoting savethequads (Reply 10):
PDX LH A343 to FRA. But Condor is starting FRA service in summer.

DL has AMS from PDX.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:00 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 8):
. PHX has been served continuously from first LGW then LHR.

When BA moved PHX from LGW to LHR there was a sizable break in the service (a couple of years if memory serves me).
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LAX772LR
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 21):
Having said that, this will probably bother you, too

Why on Earth would I care about that?

Quoting bristolflyer (Reply 32):
When BA moved PHX from LGW to LHR there was a sizable break in the service (a couple of years if memory serves me).

Think you're confusing that with SAN. BA's served PHX consistently.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
bobnwa
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting BostonBeau (Reply 25):
TWA Constellations bound for Paris used to stop there.

Where did this flight originate and what time period?
 
timz
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:57 pm

Quoting EWRandMDW (Reply 27):
AF, BOAC and LH all had T/A service on their metal from MDW.

Always with another stop before crossing the Atlantic.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 34):
Where did this [BED] flight originate and what time period?

Circa 1946-- presumably while BOS was under construction. I'll check, but LGA-BED-YQX-SNN is the first guess.
 
33lspotter
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 30):

What I find interesting is that the 787 is always sold as a door opener for long-haul services to smaller markets that cannot support anything else (not only because of size, but also of costs) - but it has not been used to resurrect services to markets such as CLE, BNA, STL. Instead, it brought the first long-haul ever to Austin.

Interestingly, BA has been complementing its PHL and EWR service with 788s. Additionally, it has been going to MTL.

While it has been marketed as a "door opener" for new long-haul services to smaller markets, I think in reality it has become a replacement for aircraft that either do not fit (744/772) or are getting old for (763) existing markets.
 
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OA412
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
SAN-LHR has been op'd 3 times by BA; the first attempt was not nonstop (instead, direct service, first via LA and second, via PHX) but the second attempt at the route WAS nonstop and it ended fairly soon after 9/11.
The third time seems to be the charm -- the route was restarted in 2011 by BA and continues today, doing very well this time around!

That's not quite right. The first attempt was indeed a one-stop via LAX that operated sometime in the late 80's/early 90's. Service was suspended and resumed again in the mid/late 90's. The second attempt from the late 90's to the early 00's was LGW-PHX-SAN, which was eventually split into LGW/LHR-PHX and LGW/LHR-SAN. There was no break in service between the the tag flight, and nonstop flights to each city.
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LAX772LR
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 36):
While it has been marketed as a "door opener" for new long-haul services to smaller markets, I think in reality it has become a replacement for aircraft that either do not fit (744/772) or are getting old for (763) existing markets.

It was marketed for both, and it clearly does both. You can even see it doing both within just this airline alone (i.e. launching AUS and supplementing YYZ)

Not really sure what the issue is here?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
united319
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:22 pm

AF used to serve DFW and KL's AMS service went seasonal in 2011 or 2012.

And i'm not positive but didn't DL have one or two TATL routes during their peak at DFW?
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33lspotter
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 38):
You can even see it doing both within just this airline alone (i.e. launching AUS and supplementing YYZ) Not really sure what the issue is here?


Other than AUS-LHR, BOS-PEK/NRT, and DY starting its transatlantic ops—which is limited in scope, I don't know of many (if any) other new routes that have come about as a result of the 787. Obviously, there are other factors besides aircraft that come into consideration, but I haven't really seen the 787 have the catalyst effect of launching new "thin," long routes that many have touted.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 40):
Other than AUS-LHR, BOS-PEK/NRT, and DY starting its transatlantic ops—which is limited in scope, I don't know of many (if any) other new routes that have come about as a result of the 787.

BOS-PVG
LAX-KIX
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747megatop
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:40 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
The third time seems to be the charm -- the route was restarted in 2011 by BA and continues today, doing very well this time around!

I am still crossing my fingers on this one. If the economy goes south or BA catches a cold financially then this route may see the axe..who knows!.
 
33lspotter
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:54 pm

Quoting yenne09 (Reply 18):
Did Bangor or Portsmouth ever have TATL services? I think Bangor had tech stop for Laker?

According to this news article, Laker used to serve BGR during the 80s, and Finnair offered BGR-HEL (as BGR was its refueling stop) service during the late 90s and perhaps early 2000s.

After 9/11, there was a restriction on passengers disembarking during fuel stops, which was lifted in November of '01. However, though this states that Finnair would be allowed to refuel again, it made no mention of whether or not passengers would be able to book flights. I'm not sure when Finnair ended its service, but it is no longer there.

Don't think PSM ever had TATL service.

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 41):
BOS-PVG
LAX-KIX

Ah, yes—I didn't include BOS-PVG as it hasn't started, and I was only thinking about ones currently in service. Wasn't aware of the LAX-KIX service starting last month. My point isn't that 787s aren't spurring new markets at all; just haven't seen its effect on the scale that I'd imagined.

[Edited 2015-04-06 10:57:51]
 
910A
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 41):
Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 41):
Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 40):
Other than AUS-LHR, BOS-PEK/NRT, and DY starting its transatlantic ops—which is limited in scope, I don't know of many (if any) other new routes that have come about as a result of the 787.

BOS-PVG
LAX-KIX

I would disagree with LAX-KIX has a new route that has come about as the result of the 787. This route has been operated my several carriers in the past, with 747's, DC-10's, 777's. Now the 788 might be the right size aircraft at this point in time, but we will see.

SFO-CTU; SFO-CAN would be prime examples of a long thin routes that came about as the result of the introduction of the 787.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 41):
Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 40):
Other than AUS-LHR, BOS-PEK/NRT, and DY starting its transatlantic ops—which is limited in scope, I don't know of many (if any) other new routes that have come about as a result of the 787.

BOS-PVG
LAX-KIX

SJC-NRT
SJC-PEK
SAN-NRT
SFO-WUH-CAN
HEL-NRT

I think there are a few Asia routes out of YVR also that wouldn't exist if it weren't for the 787.
 
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 43):
My point isn't that 787s aren't spurring new markets at all; just haven't seen its effect on the scale that I'd imagined.

There are still only ~250 787s in service, and a good chunk of those are early frames used by operators (AI, QR, most of the ANA fleet) who bought them to operate on short- and medium-haul routes. I think if you look at where 787s are flying when the in-service fleet hits 750 or 1000, you'll see a bunch more routes that hadn't been flown before.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 40):
Other than AUS-LHR, BOS-PEK/NRT, and DY starting its transatlantic ops—which is limited in scope, I don't know of many (if any) other new routes that have come about as a result of the 787.

...you're not even trying  
Quoting 910A (Reply 44):
I would disagree with LAX-KIX has a new route that has come about as the result of the 787. This route has been operated my several carriers in the past, with 747's, DC-10's, 777's. Now the 788 might be the right size aircraft at this point in time, but we will see.

And almost none of those routes lasted beyond on season or two. KIX is an insanely expensive gateway, hobbled by a more popular regional airport (ITM) remaining open. It's basically the Japanese Malpensa/Mirabel.

I'd say the fact that anyone's even attempting transpacs to LAX out of it again are indeed a testament to the 787's route-opening abilities. Nothing else has been able to make it work.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
MAH4546
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 47):
And almost none of those routes lasted beyond on season or two. KIX is an insanely expensive gateway, hobbled by a more popular regional airport (ITM) remaining open. It's basically the Japanese Malpensa/Mirabel.

Los Angeles support Osaka service without interruption for a very, very long time until JAL ended service in the mid-2000s.
a.
 
wn676
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RE: US Airports That Have Lost Scheduled Tatl Service?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:42 pm

PHX-DUS on LT from late 1996 to 1998. Operated once a week IIRC with MD-11 and 767 equipment.
Tiny, unreadable text leaves ample room for interpretation.

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