Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
phillyramp270
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 am

PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:43 pm

I just notice that HA flys a 330 from JFK to HNL and I think someone mentioned that UA flys a 772 from EWR to HNL and I'm surprised AA/US hasn't tried to offer at least a seasonal offering out a philly unless they have a codeshare with HA out of New York. Is the right longer than TLV? I think the company would make bank giving the non stop status and capacity upgrade.

Or is that too much plane and premium product?
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
User avatar
phlsfo
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:18 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 2:58 pm

It's not worth it. There is plenty of connectivity out of PHX on the legacy US side plus the legacy AA connectivity out of LAX. It wouldn't be worth it to tie up 2 A330's with that type of service.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Thread starter):
I just notice that HA flys a 330 from JFK to HNL and I think someone mentioned that UA flys a 772 from EWR to HNL and I'm surprised AA/US hasn't tried to offer at least a seasonal offering out a philly unless they have a codeshare with HA out of New York. Is the right longer than TLV? I think the company would make bank giving the non stop status and capacity upgrade.

Or is that too much plane and premium product?

It's not so much plane/product, but rather lack of demand. Eastern time is notoriously difficult to support Hawaii, considering the plethora of beach destinations available within the Caribbean. Other than NYC (UA+HA), the only 2 other places with any HNL service from the Eastern time zone are IAD and ATL (flown by 744).

But considering the fact that AA/US doesn't even fly ORD-Hawaii, the chance of PHL/CLT-Hawaii is rather slim at this point of time.
 
eastern747
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:16 pm

Well, here I go again, but in the day, and before alot of connections, UA had non stop service (DC-8-63(?)) from BWI-HNL. I think they did well but better use of aircraft.
 
phillyramp270
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 3):

LOL.. I can see you been into this for years lol
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:37 pm

PHL-HNL overflies or comes close to overflying multiple other AA hubs. ORD-HNL would almost certainly come before either PHL or CLT, neither of which I'm sure will ever see HNL nonstop flights.
 
phillyramp270
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:38 pm

How is United fairing with loads?
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 6):
How is United fairing with loads?

United does fairly well but has a much larger city to fly from with the New York City metro area. US Airways tried CLT - HNL and that failed rather quickly. CLT is a much bigger hub than PHL or EWR, but there was not enough O/D. PHL has more O/D, but most connecting traffic can go through a different city in the large AA network.

In general with so many Caribbean options available, it is a smaller market for demand from the East Coast to Hawaii. Who wants to sit on a plane for 11 hours when the whole Caribbean is available within 5 hours nonstop? For those that want to go to Hawaii, they often are price sensitive enough to be willing to accept a connection.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:02 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 1):
plus the legacy AA connectivity out of LAX.

Don't forget DFW also.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 3):
UA had non stop service (DC-8-63(?)) from BWI-HNL.

It was a DC-8-62. United always billed it as a -62(H) which I guess meant
"heavy", and this is where I don't know the specifics, was it a special
higher-gross-weight version of the -62?
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
phillyramp270
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):

but except maybe a select few... all Caribbean flights will be routed through MIA anyway further down the line of the merger
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
eastern747
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:11 pm

Well yes I have. My Dad was in the aircraft business at MARTINS and helped build their version of the China Clipper and the bombers in WW2. I attended the Univ. of Maryland in College Park (just outside DC) and it happened to be on the flight path. Walking to class I would see the planes, and say to myself.......some day. When is growing up we had a neighbor who lived on a pretty big estate. Can't call it a farm as he didn't grow anything. His son (30-40) bought a small Piper TriPacer and kept it there. He would take me flying ever so often. One day we flew down to BWI.(lived in Baltimore) to get fuel. While waiting to be finished, a PA707 landed as a scheduled flight to SJU. The neighbor asked if we could go on board and look. There were no jetways or anything. I remember going on board, the awesome F/As, the friendly pilots and being embarrassed. I was a 12-13 year old in a tee shirt and shorts looking at the inside of a 707, (probably 1962 or close). I was hooked and the rest was history.
 
usflyer msp
Posts: 3988
Joined: Tue May 23, 2000 11:50 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Thread starter):
I just notice that HA flys a 330 from JFK to HNL

The HA JFK-HNL flight is well known poor performer.

I would not base anything upon that...
 
User avatar
phlsfo
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:18 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 9):

I don't think you will see a lot of the US Caribbean flights leave PHL to go through MIA. There is quite a large O/D market for those flights out of PHL. If there is demand and you have the planes, why not?
 
phillyramp270
Topic Author
Posts: 312
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2014 4:06 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 12):

True that.. there is no way I can ever non rev to PUJ out of philly if my life depended on it lol

I guess Hawaii is a west coast thing and the Caribbean is a east coast thing as well

[Edited 2015-04-06 09:22:32]
Barack Obama is not a foreign born, brown skinned, anti-war socialist who gives away healthcare. You're thinking of Jesu
 
User avatar
cathay747
Posts: 1527
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 8:47 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
The HA JFK-HNL flight is well known poor performer.

Oh? I've not heard this, and I would think they would have axed it
by now if it was a poor performer.
Try a Little VC-10derness
 
User avatar
enilria
Posts: 10407
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
It's not so much plane/product, but rather lack of demand.

It's a lack of demand at the price AA would want. The real problem with long-haul Hawaii is there is not much of a front cabin market and there are places for that plane where there are better opportunities.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 12):
I don't think you will see a lot of the US Caribbean flights leave PHL to go through MIA

  
Beside O&D, Philly also offers 1 stop options MIA doesn't.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
AA/US doesn't even fly ORD-Hawaii

That's an excellent future route for a US A330 or high density 763  
 
rta
Posts: 1414
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:01 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:39 pm

I wonder how different the market for Hawaii is between JFK/EWR and PHL.
 
User avatar
phlsfo
Posts: 180
Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:18 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):

You will also have a lot of people redeeming miles on the route, further diminishing margins.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:48 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 13):
I guess Hawaii is a west coast thing and the Caribbean is a east coast thing as well

For the most part, this is true, although CUN is sort of an outlier with pretty low fares from anywhere.
 
dumbell2424
Posts: 929
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 2:45 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:58 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
Other than NYC (UA+HA), the only 2 other places with any HNL service from the Eastern time zone are IAD and ATL (flown by 744).

IAD is a 764 and ATL is a 333...
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 20):

IAD is a 764 and ATL is a 333...

I searched a random date in July and delta.com shows 744

maybe the plane choice is seasonal ?

Quoting enilria (Reply 15):

It's a lack of demand at the price AA would want. The real problem with long-haul Hawaii is there is not much of a front cabin market and there are places for that plane where there are better opportunities.

UA manages to fly widebody flights to HNL from IAH+ORD+IAD+EWR on a daily basis (IAD is occasionally less than daily during winter), including flat bed service from EWR and IAD, so the demand definitely exists at the price points that UA is comfortable with. I think ORD+IAH are 772's (non-ER) while EWR+IAD are 764s.

The 777s are special Hawaii-configs with 53" legroom and 10" recline in a 2-3-2 arrangement in the front cabin. Not as nice as a real premium cabin but is a lot lot more comfy than standard domestic F. The 764s are a real treat with 39F in true flat bed.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6410
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:18 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 3):
Well, here I go again, but in the day, and before alot of connections, UA had non stop service (DC-8-63(?)) from BWI-HNL. I think they did well but better use of aircraft.

It was a DC-8-62. UA never had DC-8-63s. EA and AC had them in North America.

UA had both JFK-HNL and BWI-HNL non-stops with DC-8-62s.

I didn't realize that AA doesn't do ORD-HNL anymore. They flew that route for a long time and even ORD-OGG for a time. TW had STL-OGG and AA moved it to ORD, IIRC.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 16):

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
AA/US doesn't even fly ORD-Hawaii

That's an excellent future route for a US A330 or high density 763

AA really should give it a shot. UA is currently the only legacy airline flying year-round nonstop between midwest and Hawaii (since MSP is seasonal)
 
usairways85
Posts: 4197
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):
UA manages to fly widebody flights to HNL from IAH+ORD+IAD+EWR on a daily basis (IAD is occasionally less than daily during winter),

There was a period of time where IAD-HNL was ~2x weekly. Not sure if that was seasonal.
 
silentbob
Posts: 1625
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 9):
but except maybe a select few... all Caribbean flights will be routed through MIA anyway further down the line of the merger

There is no way that they could increase MIA connectivity enough to take over all of those flights.
 
BoeingGuy
Posts: 6410
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2010 6:01 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:22 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 23):
Quoting uberflieger (Reply 16):

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
AA/US doesn't even fly ORD-Hawaii

That's an excellent future route for a US A330 or high density 763

AA really should give it a shot.

I believe AA has added and discontinued ORD-HNL at least twice. They have given it a shot.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):

I believe AA has added and discontinued ORD-HNL at least twice. They have given it a shot.

Are we talking about anytime in recent history, or going waaay back into the days of pre-deregulation ?
 
FlyPNS1
Posts: 5517
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 1999 7:12 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 24):
There was a period of time where IAD-HNL was ~2x weekly. Not sure if that was seasonal.

Right now, it's only 1x weekly for April, so the demand isn't strong. Granted, PHL would have better feed than IAD, but nonetheless, demand from the East Coast isn't great given the distance and relative yields.
 
eastern747
Posts: 579
Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:34 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:48 pm

Well yes I have. My Dad was in the aircraft business at MARTINS and helped build their version of the China Clipper and the bombers in WW2. I attended the Univ. of Maryland in College Park (just outside DC) and it happened to be on the flight path. Walking to class I would see the planes, and say to myself.......some day. When is growing up we had a neighbor who lived on a pretty big estate. Can't call it a farm as he didn't grow anything. His son (30-40) bought a small Piper TriPacer and kept it there. He would take me flying ever so often. One day we flew down to BWI.(lived in Baltimore) to get fuel. While waiting to be finished, a PA707 landed as a scheduled flight to SJU. The neighbor asked if we could go on board and look. There were no jetways or anything. I remember going on board, the awesome F/As, the friendly pilots and being embarrassed. I was a 12-13 year old in a tee shirt and shorts looking at the inside of a 707, (probably 1962 or close). I was hooked and the rest was history.
 
usairways85
Posts: 4197
Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2001 11:59 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 12):

I don't think you will see a lot of the US Caribbean flights leave PHL to go through MIA. There is quite a large O/D market for those flights out of PHL. If there is demand and you have the planes, why not?

I think this is all a moot point. There are not many PHL-Caribbean flights anyway. There are maybe 5-8 year round Caribbean destinations from PHL and probably half of them are less than daily on the off-season. The winter is a different story. Over the past 2 years US has pretty much thrown a ton of capacity on PHL-Caribbean/CUN between the months of January-April.

On 7/20, AA only flies these non-stops
PHL-SJU, PUJ, CUN, NAS, MBJ

If anything it will be CLT that looses these off-season flights in favor of routing connections through MIA.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 6:59 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 23):
AA really should give it a shot

  
AA currently doesn't have an ideal widebody configuration for Hawaii. DFW also is operating with a suboptimal layout.
Before the 763 upgrade to lie flat premium seats, AA operated 2 x ORD-HNL, 1 x ORD-OGG.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 26):
I believe AA has added and discontinued ORD-HNL at least twice.

3 times a charm  
Given the recently signed marketing agreement with the Cubs and publicly stated intention to expand the Chicago network, I'd say Hawaii is a given, once American's management can move equipment around freely, and Zodiac is no longer holding up 787 deliveries and 772 retro-fits.

PHL will be one of the many places east of Chicago feeding ORD, but I doubt will see its own Hawaii service.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4944
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:15 pm

Its almost all leisure traffic on long trips, and almost all of that traffic is willing to make a connection to save money. You would need a significant population willing to pay a premium for the non-stop. I dont think theres enough people willing to pay a premium.

Hawaiian is a special case they have no hub they are flying over and NYC has such a massive population they can pull it off and i think are stimulating alot of demand via travel agents and packages etc. AA/US would just be overflying hubs
 
ridgid727
Posts: 1081
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 1:58 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 18):
You will also have a lot of people redeeming miles on the route, further diminishing margins.

Those are capacity controlled though.
 
mark2fly1034
Posts: 251
Joined: Mon Oct 24, 2011 11:38 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:31 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):

Quoting dumbell2424 (Reply 20):

IAD is a 764 and ATL is a 333...

I searched a random date in July and delta.com shows 744

maybe the plane choice is seasonal ?

Delta decided to hang on to 1 of the 747s the were going to retire, probably due to the low fuel cost and have upgraded HNL to a 747. Other 747 only routes include ATL-AMS and DTW-CDG. The rest of the year it is an A333
 
brilondon
Posts: 3164
Joined: Sun Aug 21, 2005 6:56 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 2):
But considering the fact that AA/US doesn't even fly ORD-Hawaii, the chance of PHL/CLT-Hawaii is rather slim at this point of time.


They do seasonally from ORD. They did up unto last year anyway. There really is not any profit in the routes from the east coast to Hawaii. Too far for the airlines to make enough of a profit to justify the allocation of resources for the routes.

Quoting phlsfo (Reply 18):
You will also have a lot of people redeeming miles on the route, further diminishing margins.

This is the reason premium seating on the flights to Hawaii are usually diminished business class seats. You won't find many lie flat seats in the premium cabins. AC has placed Rouge aircraft on their flights to HNL and I really don't care for them but it still beats UA business class to HA.

Because of the number of people redeeming their miles to vacation in Hawaii you see older aircraft with the older first class seating. It is not worth airlines putting premium cabins on the routes to Hawaii for mileage redemption tickets.

[Edited 2015-04-06 13:50:36]
Rush forever Closer To My Heart
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting brilondon (Reply 35):

This is the reason premium seating on the flights to Hawaii are usually diminished business class seats. You won't find many lie flat seats in the premium cabins. AC has placed Rouge aircraft on their flights to HNL and I really don't care for them but it still beats UA business class to HA.

??? UA's Hawaii 777s (available on many frequencies) are 53" legroom in J while AC Rouge premium class are 37" legroom. UA has some services using 180-deg true flat bed. How exactly does ACR beat UA ?
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 8:59 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Thread starter):
PHL To HNL For American Possible?

"Possible?" I suppose. Plausible? Not at all - for all the reasons previously mentioned. PHL is too far east, too small and low-yielding an O&D market to Hawaii, and offers little in the way of connections that would be meaningful over and above that which can already be served by AA via DFW/LAX/PHX, let alone competitors via their respective hubs. As already said, the only additional Hawaii routes I could see working for AA going forward would be, in order of plausibility: ORD-HNL, SFO-HNL and DFW-KOA.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 31):
Before the 763 upgrade to lie flat premium seats, AA operated 2 x ORD-HNL, 1 x ORD-OGG.

I remember when ORD-OGG was operating, although I personally don't remember it operating alongside ORD-HNL double-daily. Either way, though, I agree that ORD-HNL is a perfect opportunity - likely for a 767.

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 31):
Given the recently signed marketing agreement with the Cubs and publicly stated intention to expand the Chicago network, I'd say Hawaii is a given, once American's management can move equipment around freely, and Zodiac is no longer holding up 787 deliveries and 772 retro-fits.

A more appropriately-configured aircraft would, indeed, help. In addition, I think this is an opportunity where re-peaking the hub could also help, as a schedule timed in both directions to perfectly meet inbound and outbound connections could provide an incremental yield boost and broaden the demand to fill the seats.

[Edited 2015-04-06 14:00:30]
 
User avatar
DolphinAir747
Posts: 1901
Joined: Tue Jun 12, 2012 10:07 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting cathay747 (Reply 14):
Oh? I've not heard this, and I would think they would have axed it
by now if it was a poor performer.

The main reason is a lack of a FF base. Apart from the occasional HNL-originating passenger going to JFK, all NYC-originating passengers (the higher-yielding ones at least) are part of a FF program and do not want to fly HA.

Quoting mark2fly1034 (Reply 34):
Delta decided to hang on to 1 of the 747s the were going to retire, probably due to the low fuel cost and have upgraded HNL to a 747. Other 747 only routes include ATL-AMS and DTW-CDG. The rest of the year it is an A333

DL also flies the 747 from HNL to NRT and KIX.
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Mon Apr 06, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 38):

Right ... That's why UA is the only one offering flat bed to HNL from NYC while AA offers nothing and DL is seasonal at best.

Definitely the FFs.
 
azjubilee
Posts: 3730
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2000 5:26 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Tue Apr 07, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
The HA JFK-HNL flight is well known poor performer.

I would not base anything upon that...

Oh yes... please share with us your valuable insight on the matter.
 
Flymichael21
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:59 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Tue Apr 07, 2015 2:25 am

DL837 ATL-HNL is a 744 from 01MAY to 07SEP.


On a side note, DL72 ATL-AMS is a 744.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting Phillyramp270 (Reply 9):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 7):

but except maybe a select few... all Caribbean flights will be routed through MIA anyway further down the line of the merger

O/D in the winter is relatively good out of PHL to the Caribbean. There is a lot of demand to get out of the snowy icy winters in the Northeast United States. People usually want nonstop flights, which is why BOS/PHL/EWR/JFK etc have tons of flights. If AA/US tried to route everyone through MIA, I would expect JetBlue, Frontier or Spirit to start offering nonstop flights and compete.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):

UA manages to fly widebody flights to HNL from IAH+ORD+IAD+EWR on a daily basis (IAD is occasionally less than daily during winter), including flat bed service from EWR and IAD, so the demand definitely exists at the price points that UA is comfortable with. I think ORD+IAH are 772's (non-ER) while EWR+IAD are 764s.

United has historically been the largest airline flying to Hawaii. United has had widebody service from throughout the United States since the 1970s. US Airways only had limited service with 757s from PHX. In general they were not a very big player in the market. Even the combined American Airlines cannot come close to the capacity that United has to Hawaii. That doesn't mean that AA can't start PHL-HNL, it just means that historically the market is stronger for United and it isn't easy for things to change.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Tue Apr 07, 2015 1:59 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 42):

United has historically been the largest airline flying to Hawaii. United has had widebody service from throughout the United States since the 1970s. US Airways only had limited service with 757s from PHX. In general they were not a very big player in the market. Even the combined American Airlines cannot come close to the capacity that United has to Hawaii. That doesn't mean that AA can't start PHL-HNL, it just means that historically the market is stronger for United and it isn't easy for things to change.

To add to this, that historical lead has been further strengthened by merging with CO's GUM and Micronesian network.

Back in the PMCO days, Air Mike felt somewhat disjoint from the EWR/CLE/IAH hubs. Now the merged entity has a links the GUM hub and SFO/LAX hubs through a very diverse offering at HNL (even though it's not classified as a "hub")
 
ripcordd
Posts: 1082
Joined: Sat Apr 01, 2000 1:12 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:51 am

Yes AA#73 was daily for long time ORD-HNL then AA cut it back to XMAS and Summer only till last summer then AA upped DFW-OGG 2X Daily from the loss of the ORD-HNL for the summer. What really surprised me is that AA had 3X DFW-HNL for a short period of time this spring break along with 2x DFW-OGG now I know AA isn't filling 5 DFW-HNL planes with all O/D I just don't understand why they wouldn't bring ORD-HNL back for the holidays and summer
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
Posts: 8528
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2002 11:45 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:40 am

I miss AA ORD-HNL. Back in the day it was same-plane DC-10 service on AA 73 DTW-ORD-HNL-OGG / AA 72 OGG-HNL-ORD-DTW. Then for many years it was a change of aircraft in ORD where DTW-ORD was F100/72S/M80/757 and the DC-10 on ORD-HNL.

I suspect ORD-HNL would come back before they even thing about PHL.
 
WA707atMSP
Posts: 1945
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2006 8:16 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:32 pm

Quoting DTW.SCE" class="quote" target="_blank">PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 45):
I miss AA ORD-HNL. Back in the day it was same-plane DC-10 service on AA 73 DTW-ORD-HNL-OGG / AA 72 OGG-HNL-ORD-DTW.

My first flight on a DC-10-30 was on AA 73, DTW-ORD, in June 1985.

AA also flew DTW-ORD-HNL same plane service in the early 1970s, with 707-323s, with flights continuing on to SYD or AKL.
 
UsAir737
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:26 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:35 pm

I'm sure it's on the table with Doug Parker at the helm. Perhaps an A330 or 763 1x daily to HNL and a OGG flight too?
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5132
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting UsAir737 (Reply 47):
I'm sure it's on the table with Doug Parker at the helm. Perhaps an A330 or 763 1x daily to HNL and a OGG flight too?

It's almost certainly not, it would be a complete waste of a valuable widebody.
 
UsAir737
Posts: 222
Joined: Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:26 pm

RE: PHL To HNL For American Possible?

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:38 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 48):

A 763 is not that valuable compared to a 330 or 788/89
Long live US/ HP the airline that took over the world!

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos