frostyj
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 49):

I think that area is rural so there is nothing for Irish people to be attracted to, it will have to be relied on by Americans. A 737-800 normal can already make this route, remember it is only 3,000 miles and will be done in the summer when flights are one hour shorter.

Westjet are flying one from Glasgow to Halifax so no big deal from Ireland.
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tom11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:32 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 46):
No offence but what is there for a person like me to travel to Conneticut for? Why wouldn't I fly to New York and drive????
Quoting frostyj (Reply 50):
I think that area is rural so there is nothing for Irish people to be attracted to, it will have to be relied on by Americans. A 737-800 normal can already make this route, remember it is only 3,000 miles and will be done in the summer when flights are one hour shorter.

I'm not sure how you can make such statements if you've never actually been to Connecticut. Many parts of Connecticut are very urban, and far from rural. I'm not saying you have to take your next family vacation to Connecticut, but making a statement that BDL couldn't support TATL service to DUB or elsewhere because CT is a rural area is ridiculous. Connecticut is the 4th most densely populated state in the United States. There may be other reasons that BDL would struggle to support a TATL to Dublin-- but because it is "too rural" isn't one of them.

Hartford has a fairly decent business market, and there are over 1.2 million people in Greater Hartford, and another 700,000 in Greater Springfield, MA. If you are looking to travel to Greater Hartford, it is far easier to fly into BDL than JFK, EWR or BOS. Hartford is easily over a 2 hour drive from NYC or BOS, without traffic.

[Edited 2015-04-07 19:36:29]
 
S75752
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:45 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 50):
I think that area is rural so there is nothing for Irish people to be attracted to

Nothing for you to be attracted to if you're a tourist, yes. But reasons will be largely Family and Business from the Europe side, and Leisure and Business from the US side.
 
SCHATC422
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 50):

Does someone need a geography lesson?
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tom11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:49 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 52):

Nothing for you to be attracted to if you're a tourist, yes. But reasons will be largely Family and Business from the Europe side, and Leisure and Business from the US side.

Agreed. Connecticut has very little to offer as a tourist destination, but people find themselves traveling here for family or for business.
 
SCHATC422
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:55 am

Any thought given into maybe Thomas Cook to LGW? It's not Heathrow, but HECK of a lot better than somewhere like DUB honestly. An A332 or B763 to LGW would a lot better than DUB on EI.
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KD5MDK
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 50):
Westjet are flying one from Glasgow to Halifax so no big deal from Ireland.

I think the part where Halifax is located in a place called Nova Scotia explains why a link to Scotland works well there.

Quoting SCHATC422 (Reply 55):

Any thought given into maybe Thomas Cook to LGW? It's not Heathrow, but HECK of a lot better than somewhere like DUB honestly. An A332 or B763 to LGW would a lot better than DUB on EI.

I find it hard to imagine any business booking employees on Thomas Cook, whereas flying something like BDL-DUB-LCY, or BDL-DUB-GVA seems possible. But I think a BA 788 is the best option, if they had one available. 2nd best is an AA 752.
 
factsonly
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:27 am

This thread is active on the day DL commences B757 TATL services on BOS-AMS for a three week period only. A decision DL has taken to commence its 2nd daily BOS-AMS flight several weeks earlier than in previous years. Perhaps DL can be convinced by Governor Dannel Malloy of the State of Connecticut to test the waters again for a BDL-AMS B757 service in peak season.

DL has been operating BOS-AMS twice daily with A333 and B767 in summer (May-October) since it merged with NW. Lately the airline has been expanding both the season and capacity step-by-step. In autumn 2014 DL for the first time ever continued operating the 2nd daily BOS-AMS into the Winter season, operating A333 into mid-November 2014.

In 2015 DL has decided to open the 2nd daily BOS-AMS service earlier than ever before on April 7, 2015. The first three weeks of this 2nd service are now operated by B757, before a B764 takes over in May 2015 operating until early November 2015.

Perhaps, with the right incentives, DL can be persuaded to consider BDL-AMS, as the market from the NE USA is growing.
 
bobnwa
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:19 am

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 1):
I'm confused as to why CT turned down DL's offer of BDL-CDG a couple of years back.

I doubt that ever happened!!! Say what?
 
RL757PVD
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:49 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 57):
Perhaps DL can be convinced by Governor Dannel Malloy of the State of Connecticut to test the waters again for a BDL-AMS B757 service in peak season

I think thats another important piece of the equation.... is CT looking for year round service or not? I fully believe BDL can support AMS or CDG at near-daily levels in the summer, but the kicker is serving the businesses, I dont know if theres enough to sustain it year round.

Shooting for seasonally for a few years (slowly extending it) might make for a more realistic approach. Then bring back the JFK flight when its not running so they can keep using BDL.
Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
 
EMB170
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:17 pm

Even though from a passenger and profit perspective, the traffic may be present to run a flight such as BDL-LHR on AA or BDL-CDG on DL, it bears considering that scheduling must also be taken into account. One of the reasons that DL is able to schedule 757 service from both PHL and PIT in the warmer months is because the aircraft are JFK based and perform "W" flight patterns of:

JFK-PIT-CDG-PHL-CDG-PIT-JFK

I can't speak to AA because I'm less familiar with their TATL ops, but it would seem to me that if BDL were to gain a 757 to CDG, that would also mean that an additional market would need to gain a 757 to CDG as well, as it would most likely be flown by JFK based crews in a similar "W" pattern. Might DL be waiting for the right moment to launch RDU-CDG as well, with the flight pattern as

JFK-RDU-CDG-BDL-CDG-RDU-JFK

My thoughts.
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
frostyj
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:56 pm

Well Paris and Amsterdam are one extra hour ahead of Dublin and also at least one hour of extra flying time.

I always thought there was room for a Southwest or Jetblue flight from New England.
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33lspotter
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:13 pm

If BA had more suitable aircraft (763 or 788) based at LGW—or if AA or DL still flew there—I would say that'd be the obvious choice. Less slot constraints, more friendly toward unproven routes, still close to London, etc. etc. Either of those would be a huge feather in BDL's cap—but alas, not the case. Can't imagine that AA or DL would start flying to Gatwick for one destination.
 
jc2354
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 31):
$5 million to attract service that will end in a year, but they can't fix the door on the gate 3 jetway so I don't have to kick it open 12 times a day. Thanks CAA.

Oh my, you do realize that you've just admitted, on a public forum, that you have destroyed, misused, or caused harm to, company, state, or even federal property?
If not now, then when?
 
Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:43 pm

Oh the huge manatee!

Seriously though, I'd be a bit more receptive to your possibly fake indignation if half of our leased space didn't have some sort of issue. Our sinks have been broken since January, we've had to take lightbulbs from other overheads to get at least one working bulb per fixture, the ground air hoses keep us warm outside quite well, who cares if they don't heat the aircraft. Oh and don't even get me started on the roving pack of 15-20 homeless people that have made our baggage claim home the past few months and they can't be bothered to do anything about it. So yeah, the CAA can deal with me kicking open that door a few more times.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
ScottB
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 51):
Hartford is easily over a 2 hour drive from NYC or BOS, without traffic.

Without traffic, Hartford is a bit over an hour-and-a-half from BOS, and that's without bending the speed limits very hard. Downtown Hartford is 35 miles from the state line and BOS is another 66 miles from there.

Quoting tom11 (Reply 51):
Connecticut is the 4th most densely populated state in the United States. There may be other reasons that BDL would struggle to support a TATL to Dublin-- but because it is "too rural" isn't one of them.

Hartford has a fairly decent business market, and there are over 1.2 million people in Greater Hartford, and another 700,000 in Greater Springfield, MA.

Connecticut is densely-populated in certain areas, but many of those areas are also closer to JFK & LGA than BDL. About a quarter of CT's population lives in Fairfield County which is generally closer to NYC. Bridgeport is about equidistant between BDL & JFK, so from there it's a toss-up between dealing with NYC traffic and airport congestion for the convenience of frequent non-stops to just about everywhere versus an easier experience getting to/at BDL but having to connect unless you're going to a major hub airport -- and sacrificing on frequency as well. Even from Springfield, you weigh the extra hour of driving to BOS against far more plentiful service. From much of Eastern CT, PVD may be a better option.

Quoting SCHATC422 (Thread starter):
Governor Dannel Malloy of the State of Connecticut is setting aside $5m to subsidize a transatlantic flight, and mentioned is EI to DUB.

EI to DUB makes no sense unless the goal is to draw low-yield leisure traffic willing to connect to DUB. If you're going to London/Paris/Amsterdam/Frankfurt/anywhere-served-non-stop-from-BOS-or-JFK, it makes sense to drive the extra distance rather than spend a couple of extra hours on the ground at DUB to connect.

Quoting jc2354 (Reply 34):
if I were JetBlue and had deliveries similar to Virgin America, I would be all over the subsidy being offered. They would probably not be able to get/borrow/purchase a slot for LHR, but there is always Gatwick, Stanstead, or Luton.

Even the shortest possible transatlantic route (excluding Iceland) from BDL (SNN) is about 600 miles further than SFO-HNL. The A320 won't do it reliably for B6, especially with 156 passengers and their bags.
 
Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:42 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 66):
The A320 won't do it reliably for B6, especially with 156 passengers and their bags.

I'm sorry, but people really need to get off this B6 pipe dream. It will never happen. Don't get me wrong, I want to see B6 grow at BDL but Europe isn't happening. Why would we make our 1st European departure out of Hartford when we have JFK and our multitude of partner airlines there? Not to mention all the reasons I already listed.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
frostyj
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 66):

This is the summer when we don't have the headwinds. Alaska airlines flies 737-800's in the winter with 180 seats on 2800 mile routes.
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BubbleFrog
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:01 pm

The only reason I'd heard of Hartford before was that they will get a Minor League baseball team and are building a new ballpark. And that's because I'm a bit weird that way.

Which means, I guess a lot of Europeans (unless they have specific business there) will probably have no clue where to locate Hartford, even if the "CT" is added. Admittedly, I don't know that much about the region, but from what I read here, it's probably outbound traffic any airline would be aiming for. Unless there is the persistent business traffic others have alluded to. But frankly, I wouldn't know about that bit without asking Google more questions.
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jetblueguy22
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 44):
DCA, FLL, and MCO are double daily year round. SJU (except F-Sa-Su when its 2x), PBI, and TPA are single daily, RSW is going to seasonal I believe, I haven't seen our final summer schedule.

Good to see them growing. I'm a DL FF into BDL so I'm not really up on my B6 knowledge.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 48):
No one can be bothered making a stop over there on a six hour flight, its too short and time would be added.

They would if it saves them money. Corporate flying isn't what it was 10 years ago. Companies are cutting back, and if Icelandair is cheaper to via KEF than BA nonstop to LHR, the mid level manager will end up on Icelandair 9 times out of 10.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 46):
No offence but what is there for a person like me to travel to Conneticut for? Why wouldn't I fly to New York and drive????

They aren't aiming for people like you. They are aiming for companies like UTC, Travelers, Hartford Insurance, and Aetna along with people with high income vacationing in Europe. Any European airline that may start it isn't gunning for the Irish vacationer.

Quoting 33lspotter (Reply 63):
If BA had more suitable aircraft (763 or 788) based at LGW—or if AA or DL still flew there—I would say that'd be the obvious choice. Less slot constraints, more friendly toward unproven routes, still close to London, etc. etc.

I disagree. The aim for this flight has to be for business travelers. LHR is going to be where those business travelers want to go. Not to mention it offers superior connectivity for people whose final destination isn't LHR.

Quoting ScottB (Reply 66):
Connecticut is densely-populated in certain areas, but many of those areas are also closer to JFK & LGA than BDL. About a quarter of CT's population lives in Fairfield County which is generally closer to NYC. Bridgeport is about equidistant between BDL & JFK, so from there it's a toss-up between dealing with NYC traffic and airport congestion for the convenience of frequent non-stops to just about everywhere versus an easier experience getting to/at BDL but having to connect unless you're going to a major hub airport -- and sacrificing on frequency as well. Even from Springfield, you weigh the extra hour of driving to BOS against far more plentiful service. From much of Eastern CT, PVD may be a better option.

Don't forget for those Fairfield county folks as well, if they really want to avoid NYC they can catch a flight out of HPN to a hub. I know it isn't huge, but it's a great alternative to driving to BDL avoiding NYC traffic, and generally priced right in between them both.

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 67):
I'm sorry, but people really need to get off this B6 pipe dream. It will never happen. Don't get me wrong, I want to see B6 grow at BDL but Europe isn't happening. Why would we make our 1st European departure out of Hartford when we have JFK and our multitude of partner airlines there? Not to mention all the reasons I already listed.

Couldn't agree more.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
ScottB
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 67):
This is the summer when we don't have the headwinds. Alaska airlines flies 737-800's in the winter with 180 seats on 2800 mile routes.

AS's 738's have 163 seats, not 180. And the 2800-mile route (ANC-HNL) is mostly north-south, so headwinds aren't as much of a factor as they are on transatlantic sectors.
 
Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 69):
I'm a DL FF into BDL so I'm not really up on my B6 knowledge

Your username would indicate otherwise  
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
frostyj
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:24 pm

My point still rests. I have down a NYC flight in 6 hours and we arrived an hour after we left in the summer, there are literally no headwinds.
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Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:03 pm

Yeah? And your point is?
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
jetblueguy22
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:08 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 71):
Your username would indicate otherwise  

I was a jetBlue fanboy when I made it. Now that I'm a bit older and a little more seasoned DL is my airline of choice  .

Quoting frostyj (Reply 72):
My point still rests. I have down a NYC flight in 6 hours and we arrived an hour after we left in the summer, there are literally no headwinds.

So? That doesn't make a route feasible or not.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
tom11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:14 pm

Quoting ScottB (Reply 65):

Connecticut is densely-populated in certain areas, but many of those areas are also closer to JFK & LGA than BDL. About a quarter of CT's population lives in Fairfield County which is generally closer to NYC. Bridgeport is about equidistant between BDL & JFK, so from there it's a toss-up between dealing with NYC traffic and airport congestion for the convenience of frequent non-stops to just about everywhere versus an easier experience getting to/at BDL but having to connect unless you're going to a major hub airport -- and sacrificing on frequency as well. Even from Springfield, you weigh the extra hour of driving to BOS against far more plentiful service. From much of Eastern CT, PVD may be a better option.

Right -- but the point is to give people a reason to choose BDL. If someone lives in Bridgeport, and they are looking to go to London, and find themselves able to get a comparable fare from BDL at a reasonable time, it's possible they will make that choice instead of driving to JFK or EWR.
 
Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:16 pm

Are you this rude and condescending to everyone?

In any case, one flight you took is hardly an indication of the abilities of an aircraft on a given route.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
bobnwa
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 08, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 61):
I always thought there was room for a Southwest or Jetblue flight from New England.

If you are talking trans-atlantic, are you aware that neither of them do that?
 
tom11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:32 am

Quoting factsonly (Reply 57):
Perhaps, with the right incentives, DL can be persuaded to consider BDL-AMS, as the market from the NE USA is growing.

I think DL would be more likely to start something like CDG or LHR, as they saw AMS come and go already. Given that was during the recession, they might not be likely to do it again.
 
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spinkid
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:56 am

Maybe Allegiant can finally find a use for their 757s?

Those love getting incentives from airports right?
 
tom11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting spinkid (Reply 79):
Maybe Allegiant can finally find a use for their 757s?

Those love getting incentives from airports right?

Allegiant might find better use of their planes serving BDL - Florida or West Coast (LAX, Phoenix, LAS)? I'm not sure TATL is something Allegiant is interested in, although we've seen their interest in Hawaii service on the west coast.
 
PVD757
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:12 am

Anyone know the status of BDL's FIS?
 
SCHATC422
Topic Author
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting PVD757 (Reply 81):

Still to be torn down with the old Terminal B. Just waiting for the WFSB doppler ontop of the old control tower to taken off the top of the tower, otherwise I think all the power to building has been shut down.
Former WN Ramp Rat
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:19 am

LHR would totally work, the question is....is it worth using a whole LHR slot to fly a 757

LHR slots are pretty valuable seems hard to justify this. I have zero doubt you could fill a BDL flight to LHR the o&d would skyrocket when a non-stop flight was added. Alot of the o&d drives to JFK, EWR mostly i bet in Eastern Connecticut but would use BDL if the option existed.

I am just not sure AA can justify using a slot for this, BDL could certainly fill a 757 but would there be enough people willing to pay a premium to use BDL instead? BDL would have to get a much higher fare to fly a 757 over BAs large planes the costs will be higher or why even fly this.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:13 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 83):
LHR would totally work, the question is....is it worth using a whole LHR slot to fly a 757

I have to think BDL is more compelling than LBA.
 
JohnJ
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:07 am

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 83):
BDL could certainly fill a 757 but would there be enough people willing to pay a premium to use BDL instead?

Therein lies the rub for me. All things being equal, I'd absolutely use BDL for transatlantic travel. I live about 45 minutes from BDL, about 90 minutes from JFK. My overseas travel is generally for business. I work for a Fairfield County-based Fortune 500, and our online booking engine will flag a policy violation if the selected fare is $200 more than the cheapest fare - and this gets me in trouble with my management. The booking engine doesn't care whether it's nonstop or 3 connections, cheap is cheap. So, for travel from BDL to LHR, the booking engine would probably route me to EWR on United then to LHR, or PHL on US (AA) - or even CLT or ATL. Our executives probably get a bit more leeway, but we have a major focus on reducing travel costs.

Back when Northwest ran the AMS flight, I'd love to have taken it. But for travel not involving a weekend stayover, the fares were MUCH higher than a nonstop out of JFK. The NW 757s with 34" pitch would have been nice, but so is a BA 747.

[Edited 2015-04-08 22:10:37]
 
Aircellist
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:17 am

Quoting PM (Reply 33):
"Subsidize"? SUBSIDIZE?? Distort the invisible hand of the free market???!

Isn't that what OTHERS do??

Confused.  

Fascinating how nobody reacted to your comment…
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:56 am

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 85):

Therein lies the rub for me. All things being equal, I'd absolutely use BDL for transatlantic travel. I live about 45 minutes from BDL, about 90 minutes from JFK. My overseas travel is generally for business. I work for a Fairfield County-based Fortune 500, and our online booking engine will flag a policy violation if the selected fare is $200 more than the cheapest fare - and this gets me in trouble with my management. The booking engine doesn't care whether it's nonstop or 3 connections, cheap is cheap. So, for travel from BDL to LHR, the booking engine would probably route me to EWR on United then to LHR, or PHL on US (AA) - or even CLT or ATL. Our executives probably get a bit more leeway, but we have a major focus on reducing travel costs.

This is exactly how most companies operate nowadays. Only on a.net do people think all companies have these exclusive deals with one airline. At my company they still pay for business class internationally which is fading at a lot of fortune 500 companies I have a friend at google who have flown coach to India, now thats cruel. companies are really trying to save and the tech younger companies are the some of the stingiest on plane costs. I think commanding a premium might be difficult on a route like this, it would be easy to fill at JFK prices but you probably need a premium to be worth all the effort and costs of a new city.

[Edited 2015-04-09 00:58:39]
 
S75752
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:16 am

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 86):

Fascinating how nobody reacted to your comment…

Since it's completely different from the other subsidy controversy anyways.

This sort of 'subsidy' is more like buying new air service.
 
VFRonTop
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:02 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:39 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 84):

Can I ask why?

5.9m people live within a 60 minute drive of LBA, the hop to LHR provides great feed to BAs sh and lh network as well as serving the O&D business demand. BA isnt short of slots, its short of longhaul aircraft. If its true that BDL/LHR traffic is the largest demand then BA is the only option. I dont think BDL is high enough up the BA priority list to warrant a 767/788, there are just too many destinations what are/would be more profitable. Between NYC and BOS as well as the JV with AA and other Oneworld partners, BA have this population covered.


As for B6, G4 or WN I cant see them choosing BDL as their first foray into TATL services. It just doesnt make commercial sense.

EI certainly could do it. Dublin isn't just leisure, many large US companies have their European headquarters based in Ireland but from my understanding of employers in Hartford there would be very little O&D demand meaning the flight would be supporting connections only and thats not EIs style.

Connections however is very much Icelandairs style. But with the relative inconvenience of the connection it'd probably only attract very price ensitive travellers.
 
Cipango
Posts: 1498
Joined: Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:55 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:47 am

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 89):
EI certainly could do it. Dublin isn't just leisure, many large US companies have their European headquarters based in Ireland but from my understanding of employers in Hartford there would be very little O&D demand meaning the flight would be supporting connections only and thats not EIs style.

A lot of companies do have their European HQ's in Dublin but not enough Hartford based ones to make this flight worthwhile.

EI rely on connections more than you would think. I remember reading the DUB-SFO-DUB flight is 30% O&D and 70% connections. It is also why some of the US flights land at ungodly hours in the morning to meet the departure banks from 6am-8am from DUB.
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
VFRonTop
Posts: 310
Joined: Fri Oct 12, 2012 6:02 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:09 am

Quoting Cipango (Reply 90):
EI rely on connections more than you would think. I remember reading the DUB-SFO-DUB flight is 30% O&D and 70% connections. It is also why some of the US flights land at ungodly hours in the morning to meet the departure banks from 6am-8am from DUB.

Yes very true, but the relaunch of SFO by EI was only after the continued request from Bay Area companies with confirmed and sustainable demand evidenced. The route is much more secure now that EI have built their UK network creating demand from many Uk cities to SFO.

From what I've read Hartford would only really have demand to/from London. That's a very specific market to be served by an airline like EI.

[Edited 2015-04-09 04:14:44]

[Edited 2015-04-09 04:15:33]
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:10 pm

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 91):

From what I've read Hartford would only really have demand to/from London. That's a very specific market to be served by an airline like EI.

In terms of O&D, London and Paris would probably make the most sense, since they both provide good connecting traffic as well. Both are leisure destinations, and both are business destinations, thought I'd guess LHR attracts more business traffic than CDG.

If EI were to start DUB, and then that route were to fail, it would look really bad for BDL, and may not make other airlines want to try more lucrative routes (ie LHR or CDG).
 
eaglepower83
Posts: 360
Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:54 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 75):
Right -- but the point is to give people a reason to choose BDL

After 2011, the prices of BDL really skyrocketed (at least to my destinations) so I as well as some friends started just driving to BOS.
Oftentimes I could get an AA flight to ORD from BOS, with a 1st class leg for the same price or less than Y round trip from BDL! It was crazy.
If they bring their fares down a tad, they'll really keep a lot of traffic and fill the planes more than they already are.
 
jetblueguy22
Posts: 3235
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:26 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:23 pm

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 85):
Therein lies the rub for me. All things being equal, I'd absolutely use BDL for transatlantic travel. I live about 45 minutes from BDL, about 90 minutes from JFK. My overseas travel is generally for business. I work for a Fairfield County-based Fortune 500, and our online booking engine will flag a policy violation if the selected fare is $200 more than the cheapest fare - and this gets me in trouble with my management. The booking engine doesn't care whether it's nonstop or 3 connections, cheap is cheap. So, for travel from BDL to LHR, the booking engine would probably route me to EWR on United then to LHR, or PHL on US (AA) - or even CLT or ATL. Our executives probably get a bit more leeway, but we have a major focus on reducing travel costs.

Back when Northwest ran the AMS flight, I'd love to have taken it. But for travel not involving a weekend stayover, the fares were MUCH higher than a nonstop out of JFK. The NW 757s with 34" pitch would have been nice, but so is a BA 747.

Your company isn't alone. I know my parents company, which is growing rapidly, in Waterbury does a ton of international travel and they have something similar. Everybody was thrilled when the NW flight came on, especially since they had a corporate contract with NW. But the flight was almost never used. The cost was just too high. In the 20 or so trips to Europe my stepdad made when the flight was active, I think he took it once. It was that much cheaper to take a car service to JFK and catch a nonstop to where he needed to go.

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 93):
After 2011, the prices of BDL really skyrocketed (at least to my destinations) so I as well as some friends started just driving to BOS.
Oftentimes I could get an AA flight to ORD from BOS, with a 1st class leg for the same price or less than Y round trip from BDL! It was crazy.
If they bring their fares down a tad, they'll really keep a lot of traffic and fill the planes more than they already are.

Some people have gotten angry at me for saying this, but BDL is extremely expensive and that is why you are seeing minimal growth. Airlines know they can charge a nice premium out of BDL, so they do. 10 years ago you could get some really amazing deals out of BDL. Now, not so much. When I started going to school I could get GFK-MSP-BDL for 400 bucks. Now it is closer to 900, only 4 years later. Unless I'm using miles, I'm not flying into BDL. It's LGA or JFK. I know I'm not alone either.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 94):

Some people have gotten angry at me for saying this, but BDL is extremely expensive and that is why you are seeing minimal growth. Airlines know they can charge a nice premium out of BDL, so they do. 10 years ago you could get some really amazing deals out of BDL. Now, not so much. When I started going to school I could get GFK-MSP-BDL for 400 bucks. Now it is closer to 900, only 4 years later. Unless I'm using miles, I'm not flying into BDL. It's LGA or JFK. I know I'm not alone either.

I'm not sure when you are traveling, but I just found an itinerary for GFK-MSP-BDL roundtrip on DL for $450.

In terms of leisure destinations -- especially Florida -- BDL is on-par with other airports in the region. There are certainly routes where it is significantly more to use BDL, and there are some where it is maybe only $50 more to use BDL -- and the question then becomes is it worth driving to JFK or LGA, paying a premium to park and cross bridges -- or is it worth it to use BDL.

Many also fail to check Southwest Airlines pricing. Because Southwest Airlines flights don't show up on websites like Travelocity, many don't bother to check their fares.
 
KD5MDK
Posts: 805
Joined: Wed Mar 13, 2013 4:05 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:35 am

Quoting VFRonTop (Reply 89):
5.9m people live within a 60 minute drive of LBA, the hop to LHR provides great feed to BAs sh and lh network as well as serving the O&D business demand. BA isnt short of slots, its short of longhaul aircraft. If its true that BDL/LHR traffic is the largest demand then BA is the only option. I dont think BDL is high enough up the BA priority list to warrant a 767/788, there are just too many destinations what are/would be more profitable. Between NYC and BOS as well as the JV with AA and other Oneworld partners, BA have this population covered.

Given the terrible loads reported for CTU, it's entirely possible that it makes more sense to fly to BDL than to there.
Also, given LBA wasn't served until quite recently, it doesn't sound like a critical network component to me.
In any event, I was replying to a post saying "is it worth a whole LHR slot", and I'm showing that BA has plenty of slots. LBA was just the easiest to come to mind.

Even if we distinguish that BA is actually long haul aircraft constrained and not slot constrained, they could make a slot available to an AA 757, or they could announce it pending the delivery of the 789.

To me, the best plan there is to put the 789 on AUS. Move the 788 from AUS to YYC, move the 767 from YYC to BDL.
Next plan is put the 789 on SAN. Move the 772 from SAN to AUS, then AUS 788 either goes to YYC or BDL.
But that's just all armchair planning.

I suspect BDL could turn out to be a bit like AUS, which was clearly covered by DFW and IAH.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8328
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:42 am

A Monday Wednesday Friday EI 757 service in summer would work. One in five CT residents claim Irish ancestry so the tourism attraction is there. Easy connections to Scotland and Italy also will benefit the route. The days of week will also work for Business traffic to and from Dublin.

EI is currently seeing more than 60% of traffic Originating outside Ireland

I see an EI BWI 757 return before BDL though.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
sierra3tango
Posts: 585
Joined: Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:59 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:18 am

BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Would have thought it'd be easy to choose a carrier

Any of the ME3 from many points in Europe could do it

After all they understand 'subsidies' or don't they??
 
afitch7881
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:04 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 3:43 pm

BDL is growing domestically at a decent rate, stronger than PVD and similar sized airports.

If AUS can work, I don't see why BDL cant with BA. The BDL catchment area has more fortune 500 companies, higher wealth, and probably more people within a 45 minute drive. The I-91 corridor alone has over 2 million people.

BDL Passenger Traffic-

2014- 5,875,801
2013- 5,420,853

8.4% growth

2012- 5,381,860

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