LJ
Posts: 4843
Joined: Wed Nov 17, 1999 8:28 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 5:25 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13):
when NW did AMS, NW had a rather small presence at BDL, now that its DL I would think it could stand a higher chance of success.

Back then there was also more O&D between AMS and the Hartford area. The company I work for used this flight often, but we sold our business over there and nobody would use this flight anymore.

Quoting JohnJ (Reply 85):
Back when Northwest ran the AMS flight, I'd love to have taken it. But for travel not involving a weekend stayover, the fares were MUCH higher than a nonstop out of JFK. The NW 757s with 34" pitch would have been nice, but so is a BA 747.

Odly, the opposite was true from AMS. The fares for BDL were lower than those for JFK ex AMS.

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 96):

Given the terrible loads reported for CTU, it's entirely possible that it makes more sense to fly to BDL than to there.
Also, given LBA wasn't served until quite recently, it doesn't sound like a critical network component to me.
In any event, I was replying to a post saying "is it worth a whole LHR slot", and I'm showing that BA has plenty of slots. LBA was just the easiest to come to mind.

Yet a shorthaul slots may not always become a long haul slot. Yes, BA does have a lot of slots and can move the slots around, but for a TATL flight you do need a slot in a certain period, which may not be available ore already occupied for another long haul flight.
 
jumpjets
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Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 2:17 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 13):
If it wasnt for slots, AA 757 to LHR would be a no brainer,

With the likely return of the little red remedy slots to BA this winter and a lack of suitable aircraft to use these extra slots themselves for long haul flights maybe BA could lease a pair to AA and being in the TATL JV they would benefit from any profits on the route.

If the route isn't successful then its probably no worse than using the remedy slots for an extra rotation to secondary destinations such as Rotterdam or LBA as they have been doing up to now.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 97):
A Monday Wednesday Friday EI 757 service in summer would work. One in five CT residents claim Irish ancestry so the tourism attraction is there. Easy connections to Scotland and Italy also will benefit the route. The days of week will also work for Business traffic to and from Dublin.

They might be genetically Irish but I bet you they know no one or have a single person to visit in Ireland. The o&d I bet you is much lower than places like London, Paris, Rome .

Paris seems like the most likely destination just because of slot value and such low prices at JFK and ewr to London.
 
Aircellist
Posts: 1525
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:43 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 88):

Quoting Aircellist (Reply 86):

Fascinating how nobody reacted to your comment…

Since it's completely different from the other subsidy controversy anyways.

This sort of 'subsidy' is more like buying new air service.

So, that means there are "correct" subsidies, like buying air service, and "incorrect" ones, like, well, other ones, is that right?
"When I find out I was wrong, I change my mind. What do you do?" -attributed to John Maynard Keynes
 
yenne09
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:59 pm

Are there some people using YUL for TATL considering that there are flights between Hartford and Montréal (on B1900)
since the Pilgrim era?
 
EMB170
Posts: 326
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:16 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:52 pm

One thing that I've noticed in terms of using smaller capacity 757s across the Atlantic is that only DL seems interested in using these aircraft (as well as some 767s and A330s) from non SkyTeam US fortress hubs to funnel connecting traffic to their European partner hubs. Looking at TATL Summer ops, you see DL metal on flights from PHL, PIT, BOS, and SEA to CDG; all but PIT see LHR service, and BOS and SEA both see AMS service as well. In winter, even ORD-CDG becomes a DL flight as well.

I've noticed that AA/US don't seem to fly from their nonhub airports to their main European connecting hub (LHR) as much (RDU-LHR being the main exception) nor does UA use the 757/767 as much to feed FRA from nonhub markets. Perhaps such markets could be flown in a W pattern:

Would BA and LH be interested in routing TATL traffic on their U.S. partners, especially at nonhubs? It might free up BA or LH widebodies to other destinations that might need the longer range aircraft...

AA Example:

ORD-BDL-LHR-BWI-LHR-BDL-ORD (or v.v. switching the order of BWI and BDL)
ORD-PIT-LHR-IND-LHR-PIT-ORD
JFK-CMH-LHR-CLE-LHR-CMH-JFK

UA Example:

ORD-CLE-FRA-BDL-FRA-CLE-ORD
ORD-PIT-FRA-BWI-FRA-PIT-ORD (would LH give up PHL to UA now that US has left Star?)
IND ORD ATL MCO PIT EWR BUF CVG DEN RNO JFK DTW BOS BDL BWI IAD RDU CLT MYR CHS TPA CID MSP STL MSY DFW IAH AUS SLC LAS
 
PVD757
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:16 pm

As indicated above, the BDL FIS building is being torn down. Anyone know what the plan is to replace it? Is DUB the "only" choice short term to be subsidized since BDL might not have a functional FIS? Just curious. I'm sure LHR would be their first choice to throw money at. I think BDL-LHR would do well without a subsidy.
 
afitch7881
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:04 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 1:54 am

The FIS building is not being torn down. The old FIS section of Terminal B is being torn down with the vintage 1950's terminal. The current FIS building is a stand alone building that has 1 jetbridge and was finished around 2000. It is located to the west of the old Delta gate that serviced 767's back in the day.

Eventually down the road (10-15 years) the area where Terminal B stands today will be replaced with a new terminal connecting the current Terminal A and FIS building. There will be a new car rental garage/facility constructed where the parking lot is in front of Terminal B within 5 years.

[Edited 2015-04-11 18:55:35]

[Edited 2015-04-11 18:56:29]
 
KD5MDK
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting EMB170 (Reply 105):
Would BA and LH be interested in routing TATL traffic on their U.S. partners, especially at nonhubs? It might free up BA or LH widebodies to other destinations that might need the longer range aircraft...

BA already flies to a lot of non-hubs. It flies to ATL, AUS, BOS, BWI, DEN, IAH, LAS, MCO, SAN, SFO, SEA, TPA and IAD, none of which are oneworld hubs and many of which are hubs for rival airlines. Given there's a joint venture it doesn't care which metal flies a route too much.

All that said, I expect W routes are expensive to crew because they're away from base for quite a lot time. Consider that an LHR based crew would be home after every return, as opposed to an ORD on the road in LHR, BDL, and BWI.
 
slcdeltarumd11
Posts: 4383
Joined: Fri Jan 09, 2004 7:30 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting yenne09 (Reply 104):
Are there some people using YUL for TATL considering that there are flights between Hartford and Montréal (on B1900)since the Pilgrim era?

Oh I bet you connections ingeneral are what keeps that plane flying, theres a lot of connections available at YUL to Europe, other Canadian cities, and even the Caribbean. But yeah Montreal seems like a very good place to connect if you were heading to Europe
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 5459
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 2:13 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 108):


All that said, I expect W routes are expensive to crew because they're away from base for quite a lot time. Consider that an LHR based crew would be home after every return, as opposed to an ORD on the road in LHR, BDL, and BWI.

Well you could just DH crews to and from BDL BWI etc.

So a trip in a perfect world would look like

JFK-BDL (Limo) 2:00
BDL-LHR 8:00
Overnight
LHR-BDL 9:00
BDL-JFK (Limo) 2:00

21 Hour 3 day. A beautiful trip

Or

ORD-BDL DH 2:30
BDL-LHR 8:00
Overnight
LHR-BDL 9:00
BDL-ORD DH 2:30

22 Hour 3 day.


Now real world with Duty Day requirements, Pilot Contract requirements, Redeye Requirements kicks in

JFK-BDL LIMO 2:00
Overnight
BDL-LHR 8:00
Overnight
LHR-BDL 9:00
Overnight
BDL-JFK LIMO 2:00

Then you have to add duty rig, min daily rig, etc. because the limo or dead head days become 2 hour days.

Then the trip becomes a cluster and you may be better off with a JFK-LHR-BDL-LHR-JFK trip.



Either way, crewing an airplane (contrary to myth) never makes or breaks a flight. If the flight could be flown profitably, they will crew it. Limo, Deadhead, Offline Deadhead...I have seen it all.
 
afitch7881
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:04 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:16 pm

Below is an approx. look at how load factors are doing on the BA Austin flight. I simply took aircraft capacity and 2 flights per day and took data from Austin airports web site. I didn't take into if a flight was canceled or any additional capacity.


Jan '15- 65%
Dec '14- 69%
Nov '14- 67%
Oct '14- 79%
Sep '14- 79%
Aug '14- 79%
Jul '14- 85%
Jun '14- 90%
May '14- 80%
April '14- 55%

As for a comparison, the Northwest BDL-AMS flight debuted in July 2007 with the following load factors-

BDL-AMS-BDL

Jul '07- 77%
Aug '07- 75%
Sep '07- 80%
Oct '07- 78%
Nov '07- 61%
Dec '07- 60%


March - September 2008

BDL-AMS-BDL

Mar '08- 74%
Apr '08- 71%
May '08- 69%
Jun '08- 72%
Jul '08- 78%
Aug '08- 70%
Sep '08- 74%

[Edited 2015-04-12 10:33:42]
 
Cadet57
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Sun Apr 12, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 109):
Oh I bet you connections ingeneral are what keeps that plane flying,

We share a bag belt with AC and that entire flight is connections. I would say maybe 2-3x passengers per flight are BDL-YUL (or YYZ) the rest are connections. CPH, MEX, LHR, and onward Canadian destinations are the ones I see the most.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
rnav2dlrey
Posts: 329
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:10 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:48 am

Quoting ScottB (Reply 65):

this is so true. it's great that CAA has TATL ambitions, but there's so much basic work that needs to be done in order for BDL to put anything close to its best foot foward before it can be an internationally competitive airport.

there is literally no signage in the building to help one find the 'bradley flyer' bus stop. even when you get to the door nearest to the bus stop (at the end of the baggage claim area), there's nothing. there's a tiny bus stop sign in the island between the two roadways, and that's it. the bus itself is awful. CAA needs to work with CTtransit and completely transform the bus experience. most of my friends and family are too scared to ride the bus, and after a few of my own run-ins with drunks boarding in hartford, i can't blame them.

if new haven to springfield commuter rail expansion ever does occur, BDL needs to be a centerpiece of this just like PVD took advantage of MBTA. you can't build a walkway to the train station in this scenario, but there should some sort of express shuttle bus between the airport and train station. reliable mass transit access might make people in new haven and springfield consider BDL instead of NYC airports and BOS, which are a pain to get to via mass transit (other than EWR).

being in eastern CT, i really would like to use BDL more, but time after time i'm disappointed. three times this year alone i've been stranded overnight in IAD because the lone evening RJ to BDL is overbooked. i can park for free at the poquonock park and ride, but the bus doesn't run early enough to catch the early UA flight to ORD. being a UA flyer, i'll soon have to deal with outsourced frontline staff. no thanks - all my travel for the rest of the year is booked ex-BOS and JFK.
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 112):

We share a bag belt with AC and that entire flight is connections. I would say maybe 2-3x passengers per flight are BDL-YUL (or YYZ) the rest are connections. CPH, MEX, LHR, and onward Canadian destinations are the ones I see the most.

It's good service to have none the less, and looking at the prices for those flights, it's incredibly expensive if you aren't connection, so AC must be making a hand and a foot from people whose final destination is YYZ or YUL. It's good to see BDL able to support the service, as ALB, PVD, PWM, and HPN have all lost that service.

AC numbers at BDL have been up as of recently.
 
BestWestern
Posts: 8328
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2000 8:46 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Mon Apr 13, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting afitch7881 (Reply 111):
April '14- 55%

Thats a surprising result.
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
afitch7881
Posts: 722
Joined: Tue Aug 29, 2000 2:04 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Mon Apr 13, 2015 10:58 pm

April 14' was the first full month of operation unless March was.
 
Cadet57
Posts: 7170
Joined: Mon Jul 25, 2005 2:02 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting tom11 (Reply 114):
it's incredibly expensive if you aren't connection, so AC must be making a hand and a foot from people whose final destination is YYZ or YUL

$650+ for a B1900 ride. It's crazy. It also amazes me that it's all 1900 flying, no more dash 8's.
Doors open, right hand side, next stop is Springfield.
 
tom11
Posts: 148
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 4:02 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:11 am

Quoting Cadet57 (Reply 117):
$650+ for a B1900 ride. It's crazy. It also amazes me that it's all 1900 flying, no more dash 8's.

Exactly. They're making money, and filling their seats. But if you compare the price of BDL-YYZ-YVR to the price of BDL-YYZ, you'll notice they are very similar (the YVR leg is not much more).
 
SCHATC422
Topic Author
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:42 am

Former WN Ramp Rat
Current ATC
 
Cipango
Posts: 1498
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RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 17, 2015 5:49 pm

In the Irish news today...

"Dan Malloy, the Connecticut state governor who is trying to tempt Aer Lingus to open a direct transatlantic route to Hartford county’s Bradley airport with a $5 million carrot, may need to whip out his trademark lucky green tie to get a deal over the line.
It emerged this week that Malloy has set aside the cash in his proposed budget as a loss guarantee for Aer Lingus if it opens the route. Connecticut state officials have approached the airline, which is considering their request."

It's a poorly written article (IMO) and though Aer Lingus is mentioned it is probably one of many airlines that BDL is trying to "tempt".

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...tie-down-aer-lingus-deal-1.2178501
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 96):

It it's LHR, it should be an AA 757.
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: BDL, State Of CT To "Subsidize" Tatl Flight

Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:08 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 120):

Where are they going to get the plane?
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