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jfk777
Topic Author
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:48 am

What is the point of GOL flying to Miami with 737-800 when the market from Brazil is well flown by AA, TAM and Azul to Florida ? If GOL wants to be truly competitive then they should fly nonstop, if that means they need 757 then so be it. 757 should be able to handle Rio and Sao Paulo to MIA.
 
luv2fly
Posts: 11056
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RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 11:55 am

I don't understand why it has to be a 757 or a wide body? I mean Copa makes the trek from Panama down to EZE on a 737! Just cause other airlines fly widebodies on routes that means every airline should?
You can cut the irony with a knife
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:12 pm

Well, 757 do not have the range to fly to the Southern Cone nonstop from MIA.
If AA, Azul and TAM were truly covering the market, Copa would have no chance. Gol is only mimicking Copa, but their struggle in the market is an issue whose roots can be traced back to their culture, brand and market positioning.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
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RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
f GOL wants to be truly competitive then they should fly nonstop, if that means they need 757 then so be it. 757 should be able to handle Rio and Sao Paulo to MIA.

After GOL acquired Varig in 2007 GOL did operate scheduled 767 flights to MIA. However it was a complete disaster for the airline and within a year it grounded its entire fleet of 767s and only used them for certain charter operations. GOL resumed operations to MIA and MCO in order to diversify its network and its offering for its customers. GOL's strategy of using the D.R. as an intermediate stop does not seem to be working well for the carrier. GOL recently ditched its scissor hub at SDQ and transferred over to PUJ. G3 currently offers only six weekly flights to MIA via PUJ: VCP-PUJ-MIA 3x weekly and GIG-PUJ-MIA 3x weekly.
 
frostyj
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Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:24 pm

I don't understand how a 737 could be flown from Miami to Rio??
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
LimaFoxTango
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Joined: Wed Jun 16, 2004 11:33 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 4):
I don't understand how a 737 could be flown from Miami to Rio??

Easy, they stop in SDQ and PUJ.
You are said to be a good pilot when your take-off's equal your landings.
 
airbazar
Posts: 10202
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
What is the point of GOL flying to Miami with 737-800 when the market from Brazil is well flown by AA, TAM and Azul to Florida ?

TAM didn't seem to have a problem operating the A320 to MIA for many years.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
TAM didn't seem to have a problem operating the A320 to MIA for many years.

AA doesn't seem to have a problem operating the A319 to Brazil from MIA.
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
TAM didn't seem to have a problem operating the A320 to MIA for many years.
Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
AA doesn't seem to have a problem operating the A319 to Brazil from MIA.

Those flights were/are from MAO, MAO-MIA is 2402mi, well within the reach. GRU-MIA, on the other hand is 4072mi.
 
jfk777
Topic Author
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:04 pm

Quoting luv2fly (Reply 1):
I don't understand why it has to be a 757 or a wide body? I mean Copa makes the trek from Panama down to EZE on a 737! Just cause other airlines fly widebodies on routes that means every airline should?

Panama is within range of GRU with a 737, a 737 from Miami is not possible unless is an all J class trip with only 40 passengers.like the SAS from IAH to Norway.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 6):
TAM didn't seem to have a problem operating the A320 to MIA for many years.

Manaaus to MIA is 5 hours different then GRU to MIA.

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 7):
Reply 6):TAM didn't seem to have a problem operating the A320 to MIA for many years.

AA doesn't seem to have a problem operating the A319 to Brazil from MIA.

where does AA fl a A319 ? Manaus ?

The TAM A320 was from Manaus, it a 5 hour flightf rom Northwest Brazil very different then the GRU to Miami trip.
 
SCL767
Posts: 2812
Joined: Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:25 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 8):
Those flights were/are from MAO, MAO-MIA is 2402mi, well within the reach. GRU-MIA, on the other hand is 4072mi.

The TAM A320 flight used to continue onwards to other cities in Brazil via MAO. GOL could use MAO or even BEL as a scissor hub for its flights to MIA/MCO if they wanted too. Do you think that GOL is in the position to acquire wide-body a/c at this time to operate non-stop flights from GRU to MIA and MCO?
 
jetblue1965
Posts: 5050
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 1:28 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 2:28 pm

The GOL flights are thoroughly uncompetitive except for the most price sensitive folks. GRU+VCP to MIA+FLL is very well served on nonstop services, many of which have flat bed in J.

Copa is a different story because they're focused on using PTY as a low cost scissor hub between the Americas, serving city pairs that lack nonstop service to begin with. Any GRU-PTY-MIA traffic they capture is just icing on the cake.
 
jr1914
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:34 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 6:54 pm

SCL767, Gol have identities crisis but they clearly have in mind to keep operating 737's
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 7:20 pm

No one really thought the GOL service to Florida would work, but it has lasted a few years now.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...l-us-market-faces-challenges-92302
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
rg787
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 2:28 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Wed Apr 08, 2015 8:04 pm

One should note that COPA has a real shopping mall in PTY, while Gol doesn't on either PUJ or SDQ. If they could do a hub like PTY in Belem or something then probably it would work better. I don't even know if passengers are able to leave the aircraft on G3 flights to the US, but they sure don't have many options at the airport.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5287
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:15 am

Doesn't GOL fly 737-800's to MCO as well?
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 10):
The TAM A320 flight used to continue onwards to other cities in Brazil via MAO

G3 used to fly MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR on a daily basis with 320 around 2007.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
What is the point of GOL flying to Miami with 737-800 when the market from Brazil is well flown by AA, TAM and Azul to Florida ? If GOL wants to be truly competitive then they should fly nonstop, if that means they need 757 then so be it. 757 should be able to handle Rio and Sao Paulo to MIA.

The idea was to cover the growing traffic generated by the stronger BRL in 2009-2010 when thousands decided to visit Florida and buy every piece of stuff they could.
Now with a stronger USD, that's a different story.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 2):
If AA, Azul and TAM were truly covering the market, Copa would have no chance. Gol is only mimicking Copa, but their struggle in the market is an issue whose roots can be traced back to their culture, brand and market positioning.

I believe the main issue is that CM runs a hub in a growing market (Panama) where they are the dominant player while Gol just run 4 flights (considering the 2 legs) from a place where they are just a minor player.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
richierich
Moderator
Posts: 3630
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2000 5:49 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting LimaFoxTango (Reply 5):
Easy, they stop in SDQ and PUJ.

You do mean OR right? Please tell me Gol does not fly MIA-SDQ-PUJ-GRU.

Gol needs bigger planes, or at least ones with a longer range, if they want to make this kind of route work. They have fallen behind their competitors.
None shall pass!!!!
 
jr1914
Posts: 19
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2015 6:34 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:06 pm

By 2018 they will recieve MAX8 with enough range for a non stop GRUMIA not sure on the way back with N extra bags of each passenger
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 16):
G3 used to fly MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR on a daily basis with 320 around 2007.

G3 has never operated Airbus planes.
 
dfwjim1
Posts: 2474
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:44 pm

I live in the South Florida and I have never seen GOL do any advertising around here.
 
jfk777
Topic Author
Posts: 7390
Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:23 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting SCL767 (Reply 3):
After GOL acquired Varig in 2007 GOL did operate scheduled 767 flights to MIA. However it was a complete disaster for the airline and within a year it grounded its entire fleet of 767s and only used them for certain charter operations

Why was GOL's Varig experience so bad ? was the plane a 767 ? Varig people telling GOL " they know" how to operate an international airline or the reverse "GOL telling RG people we know how to do it " ? TAM filling the role of Brazil's Flag airline ? While the 767 may not have been the perfect plane for RG to revive itself it should have been good enough for GRI to MIA, JFK and Europe.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:25 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 21):

I assume that is because they cater to brazilians going on Miami shopping trips. With how outrageous prices are in brazil, there are tour companies that actually arrange shopping trips to Miami outlet malls.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
incitatus
Posts: 3382
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2005 1:49 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:07 pm

Like it was said earlier, not clear why a 737 is worse than a 757 from a passenger perspective. DL had 757s from ATL to BSB until recently.

That said, with Brazilians buying anything from Grandma's underwear to the kitchen sink in Florida, I wonder if space for bags is an issue for GOL's 737s. That might be the real catch.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:14 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 20):
G3 used to fly MIA-MAO-BEL-FOR on a daily basis with 320 around 2007.
G3 has never operated Airbus planes.

My mistake.
The FOR-BEL-MAO-MIA sector was indeed operated by TAM with 320 aircraft.
Once Copa Airlines began PTY-MAO in 2006, TAM as a response launched that route, in order to catch traffic to Miami.
JJ launched later the dedicated MIA-MAO service with 767.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:37 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 18):
Gol does not fly MIA-SDQ-PUJ-GRU

G3 GIG-PUJ-MIA, 738
G3 VCP-PUJ-MIA, 738
SDQ was substituted by PUJ since March 2015.
They also operate G3 GRU-PUJ-MCO.




.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 11):
Any GRU-PTY-MIA traffic they capture is just icing on the cake.

It's unfair the comparison between G3 [Brazil-PUJ-USA] and CM [Brazil-PTY-USA].
G3 is basically a 737 airline operating under the low cost model.
The long-haul equipment doesn't fit into their business model.
The intermediate stop in Punta Cana indicate us that they're not competing with JJ GRU-MCO, AA GRU-MIA, JJ GRU-MIA, AA MIA-GIG or JJ GIG-MIA.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Sat Apr 11, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 26):
The long-haul equipment doesn't fit into their business model.

Actually, their brand makes makes it impossible to have the business model expanded. They are currently having financial performance problems because they drifted from they low-cost model and became a network carrier, but being unable to charge a premium for that, since the flying public doesn't see them as such.
Gol would only be successful if they created a hub at MAO from which they could serve several destinations in the Eastern United States, Caribbean and Central America. They would be able to stay true to their model that way, since their brand is not flexible like Azul, which can market itself as a hybrid carrier.
The whole issue is MAO as an airport. It's incapable of handling such an endeavour. One most immediate problems is the duty free shop on arrival. It's incredible, but it is part of Brazilian itinerary decision making. Not too long ago, TAP almost axed VCP, because the competitive disadvantage was the lack of a duty free shop, not the airline, not its service, not its network.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:27 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 22):
Why was GOL's Varig experience so bad ? was the plane a 767 ? Varig people telling GOL " they know" how to operate an international airline or the reverse "GOL telling RG people we know how to do it " ? TAM filling the role of Brazil's Flag airline ? While the 767 may not have been the perfect plane for RG to revive itself it should have been good enough for GRI to MIA, JFK and Europe.

THe list is not long but it is impressive:

* Decision to use older and cheaper 763 instead of something better and comfortable for their customers
* Decision to fight for the Sao Paulo market with a bad product
* Wrong decision as for the network (focused entirely on Europe in a moment that Brazilians begin to look to the United States)
* Lack of Code-share agreements. Took too long to fight to stay on *A

In the end they burn cash during more than a year in such venture

As for JJ filling the gap ? In Sao Paulo, yes. But still is an airline with very slow decisions as for new long haul destinations. Brazil needs more, and we need airlines focusing not only where Brazilians go, but who wants to visit Brazil.

Don't get me wrong but in general, Brazilian airlines will be limited by something very hard.... Brazilian as individuals and as for Investments, are too much domestic oriented. We need that to change to have bigger and stronger airlines !
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:04 pm

Seems that G3 will go into the CCS-MIA market, its CCS-PUJ will connect with PUJ-MIA/MCO flights.
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
LipeGIG
Posts: 5063
Joined: Tue May 03, 2005 7:33 am

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 29):
Seems that G3 will go into the CCS-MIA market, its CCS-PUJ will connect with PUJ-MIA/MCO flights.

They already have millions blocked. I can't see the point to focus more on CCS.
New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2967
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: GOL Flights To MIA On 737.

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:26 am

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 30):
They already have millions blocked. I can't see the point to focus more on CCS.

MCO/MIA to CCS traffic, fares sold outside Venezuela.
Doubt G3 will look for CCS-Florida traffic in Venezuela.
I'm not on CM's payroll.

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