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dfwjim1
Topic Author
Posts: 2645
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:05 pm

Last night I was checking AA flights between DFW and MIA and I noticed that there is a 515 AM departure from DFW. At that
time in the morning there is not any connecting traffic so is this flight catering to DFW originating traffic going to and/or
connecting at MIA or is it designed to get a 737 that came in the night before positioned to MIA?

Thanks for the info.
 
roseflyer
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:16 pm

American Airlines has an arrival bank in MIA at 9am. The airports that are farther away from MIA like BOS, ORD & DFW all have 5am departures to connect to the bank. This is the same arrival bank for the Red Eye departures from the west coast and the slightly more humane morning departures between 6 and 7am from airports in the Southeastern US.

This is for DFW originating traffic connecting in MIA. The 9am bank is not huge, but it is a decent size. Unfortunately some airports end up with rather ugly departure times like LAX, DFW, ORD & BOS to make it to MIA at 9am.

[Edited 2015-04-08 08:17:38]
 
dfwjim1
Topic Author
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 1):

Having to catch a flight at 5 in the morning is definitely ugly; in fact I will be doing that next week when I travel in the opposite
direction, MIA to DFW.
 
roseflyer
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 2):
Having to catch a flight at 5 in the morning is definitely ugly; in fact I will be doing that next week when I travel in the opposite
direction, MIA to DFW.

15 years ago 6am was normally the earliest that an airline would schedule flights. That time has been creeping up to 5am at many airlines to allow for earlier arrival banks and increased fleet utilization for the airlines. It is rough on the body to have such an early flight.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:39 pm

Earlier this year I took the 10pm PHX-DFW connecting to the 5am DFW-MIA. It was almost like the poor mans redeye. The 3 hour layover in the middle really messed me up. That probably makes some sense as to why they were offering that particular routing to MIA for ~$190 and most everything else was $300+
 
commavia
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Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 3:39 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Thread starter):
Last night I was checking AA flights between DFW and MIA and I noticed that there is a 515 AM departure from DFW. At that time in the morning there is not any connecting traffic so is this flight catering to DFW originating traffic going to and/or connecting at MIA or is it designed to get a 737 that came in the night before positioned to MIA?

As said, it's aimed at MIA connections - of which their are many around 1000-1030.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
15 years ago 6am was normally the earliest that an airline would schedule flights. That time has been creeping up to 5am at many airlines to allow for earlier arrival banks and increased fleet utilization for the airlines. It is rough on the body to have such an early flight.

Indeed, and USAirways has actually be one of the most aggressive "pioneers" of these extremely early morning "push" departures in order to meet their earliest connecting banks of the morning at their hubs (the early-morning, pre-0500 MSP-CLT departure immediately comes to mind). Pre-merger AA was actually somewhat less aggressive with this, with the first DFW-MIA actually being one of the few examples in the system of pre-0600 departures.
 
dfwjim1
Topic Author
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 4):
Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 4):

When I wrote my original post I was forgot to ask if there would be many customers from the West Coast arriving in DFW
late at night who would hang around DFW and then grab the 515 to MIA.
 
Cadet57
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:25 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
It is rough on the body to have such an early flight.

So is being up at 3:30 to work said flight 5 days a week  
 
jetsetter629
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Joined: Thu Nov 01, 2007 6:07 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
Indeed, and USAirways has actually be one of the most aggressive "pioneers" of these extremely early morning "push" departures in order to meet their earliest connecting banks of the morning at their hubs

Agreed - many US flights depart around 05:15 regularly inbound to stations like PHL and CLT
 
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CV990A
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Joined: Sat Sep 04, 1999 6:04 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Wed Apr 08, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
15 years ago 6am was normally the earliest that an airline would schedule flights. That time has been creeping up to 5am at many airlines to allow for earlier arrival banks and increased fleet utilization for the airlines.

Yep - AA has done it with Flight 127 - the early IAD-DFW flight; I've been a semi-regular on that flight (at least once a month for the past year), and within the last month or so it was pushed from a 630am-ish departure to 530am - which means next Tuesday is going to suck for me...
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:27 am

Our morning FAT to DFW has usually been in the 6:50 Am for some time...but with the banking of DFW it got moved to 6Am..UGH! With a 45 min commute to FAT, arrival at 0430 for an 0530 boarding I have to leave the house at 0345..that means outta bed at 245 for shower, coffee, bite of protein bar and out the door.

I wish they would move that back closer to 7 Am.

And trhe scheduling of 1309 to a 5:10 departure from DFW to FAT is just plain stupid. the evening flight has NEVER been that early..As afar back as I can recall the earliest was 650 pm or so..this really screws up Friday business in the east or mid west to catch that flight. DUMB move AA (from a Platinum for life AAdvantage member)

Move it back 2 hours.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:05 pm

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 10):

Our morning FAT to DFW has usually been in the 6:50 Am for some time...but with the banking of DFW it got moved to 6Am..UGH! With a 45 min commute to FAT, arrival at 0430 for an 0530 boarding I have to leave the house at 0345..that means outta bed at 245 for shower, coffee, bite of protein bar and out the door.

I wish they would move that back closer to 7 Am.

And trhe scheduling of 1309 to a 5:10 departure from DFW to FAT is just plain stupid. the evening flight has NEVER been that early..As afar back as I can recall the earliest was 650 pm or so..this really screws up Friday business in the east or mid west to catch that flight. DUMB move AA (from a Platinum for life AAdvantage member)

Move it back 2 hours.

DFW-FAT to be moved up to meet minimum crew rest. AA is not going to overnight two crews in Fresno for the purpose of the flight leaving later...
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 12:17 pm

Quoting CV990A (Reply 9):
Yep - AA has done it with Flight 127 - the early IAD-DFW flight; I've been a semi-regular on that flight (at least once a month for the past year), and within the last month or so it was pushed from a 630am-ish departure to 530am - which means next Tuesday is going to suck for me...
Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 10):
Our morning FAT to DFW has usually been in the 6:50 Am for some time...but with the banking of DFW it got moved to 6Am..UGH! With a 45 min commute to FAT, arrival at 0430 for an 0530 boarding I have to leave the house at 0345..that means outta bed at 245 for shower, coffee, bite of protein bar and out the door.

It's a tradeoff, to be sure.

There are some people who simply will not want to get up at that time for such an early departure - and AA may well have to contend with bookaway as a result (assuming they cannot be captured on a later AA departure out of the same station to the same or a different hub).

On the flip side, though, early departures have many attractions for AA and, indeed, for at least some segment of their customers. To start, those much earlier outstation departures enable higher aircraft utilization (offsetting some of the hit to utilization that comes with re-peaking the hubs) and also enables earlier morning banks at the hubs, meaning that for those connecting, they can theoretically - at least in many cases - get to their final (connecting) destination earlier.

And ultimately, to each his own. I don't like getting up earlier any more than anyone else, but personally, I love the extremely early departures if it means I can get to where I'm going (especially if I'm heading home) sooner.
 
thegman
Posts: 513
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RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:25 pm

I would say it is hard living in central time zone and traveling to east sometimes because just loosing that 1 hour makes it hard for me to catch an afternoon/evening flight on routes like SAT-CLT because of the one hour time loss. Note that I live 2.5 hrs from SAT, and yes it is the closest airport. So it makes a 1700 departure or so impossible unless I work only half a day.

I would rather take a super early flight to get me to CLT (or any point east) and have more of a full day at destination rather than wait for an 8 am departure that gets in at 11:30 or 12.
 
dfwagt
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Aug 26, 2005 2:39 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:41 pm

I have taken this flight many times. While getting up in what seems the middle of the night is awful, it's great to catch the earlier flights to the islands. While it's not catered to it, it most definitely is a non-rev favorite.
 
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chepos
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Joined: Sat Dec 02, 2000 9:40 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting dfwagt (Reply 14):

Hell yeah, rule pf thumb for nrsa travel is for the most part try and get out on an early flight. Not only are they usually the only fligjts with a posaibility of getting on but who knows what can happen during the day. Weather and other issues creep up as they day goes by, an open afternoon flgitj can be overbooked in the blink pf an eye.
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5265
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:09 pm

Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 2):
Having to catch a flight at 5 in the morning is definitely ugly; in fact I will be doing that next week when I travel in the opposite
direction, MIA to DFW.

US - and HP - were big fans of doing this, for multiple reasons.

Quoting commavia (Reply 5):
Indeed, and USAirways has actually be one of the most aggressive "pioneers" of these extremely early morning "push" departures in order to meet their earliest connecting banks of the morning at their hubs (the early-morning, pre-0500 MSP-CLT departure immediately comes to mind).

  

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 10):
..As afar back as I can recall the earliest was 650 pm or so..this really screws up Friday business in the east or mid west to catch that flight. DUMB move AA (from a Platinum for life AAdvantage member)

Move it back 2 hours.

2 hours so why? The earlier the better for getting back east. There are a number of advantages to leaving early on top of crew scheduling. First flight out of the day is attractive to many, many people because it gets you moving to your destination faster than anyone else, you avoid traffic on the way to the airport, there is parking available, the plane is clean after overnight servicing, etc etc.

Give me a 5am departure over a 6 or 7am any time.
 
dfwjim1
Topic Author
Posts: 2645
Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 8:46 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Thu Apr 09, 2015 6:29 pm

I really like the early morning departures too. For example with the new schedule I can take the nonstop MIA - SFO flight on AA
which now leaves at around 730 and be in SFO by 1030 rather than 1130 with the old schedule.
 
B4REAL
Posts: 2617
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2003 5:53 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
15 years ago 6am was normally the earliest that an airline would schedule flights. That time has been creeping up to 5am at many airlines to allow for earlier arrival banks and increased fleet utilization for the airlines. It is rough on the body to have such an early flight.

I was booking a flight from LED to SVO to go onward back to the US, and Aeroflot has 3:50 AM departure. That's just crazytalk.
 
flySFO
Posts: 109
Joined: Sun Apr 03, 2011 7:26 am

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 18):
I was booking a flight from LED to SVO to go onward back to the US, and Aeroflot has 3:50 AM departure. That's just crazytalk.

The main departure bank for most Middle Eastern international airports such as IKA is 3-5am. Gets you into the European hub around 6-8am for those 8-10am departures to North America. Also, great aircraft utilization for LH, etc. Plane leaves FRA in the late evening and is back at the hub by 6-8am ready for a full day's work around Europe.
 
chrisair
Posts: 2261
Joined: Fri Sep 01, 2000 11:32 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 10):
With a 45 min commute to FAT, arrival at 0430 for an 0530 boarding I have to leave the house at 0345..that means outta bed at 245 for shower, coffee, bite of protein bar and out the door.

Out of curiosity, why in the world are you getting to FAT so early? If I were you, I'd shoot to be walking in the door of the airport at 515a if they board at 530a. When I used to do 6a flights out of TUS, I'd show up at the airport at 530a, walk right through security and onto the plane.
 
uberflieger
Posts: 1573
Joined: Fri Jun 28, 2013 6:22 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:15 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 12):
I don't like getting up earlier any more than anyone else, but personally, I love the extremely early departures if it means I can get to where I'm going (especially if I'm heading home) sooner

And that's the bottom line. What people don't like and what they end up doing... there may be things the Tempe boys & girls may have to learn running a premier airline, scheduling is not one of them  
 
afcjets
Posts: 3986
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2015 6:20 pm

RE: DFW To MIA First Flight In The Morning

Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:35 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 3):
15 years ago 6am was normally the earliest that an airline would schedule flights. That time has been creeping up to 5am at many airlines to allow for earlier arrival banks and increased fleet utilization for the airlines. It is rough on the body to have such an early flight.

Back in the 1970s, 4am departures were not that uncommon either. Even into the early to mid 1980s Delta had a very busy bank that departed ATL just after midnight.

One of the most telling examples though is from 1974 when Delta had an L1011 depart EWR at 145a for CLT and the flight then departed for ATL at 405a. The flight continued onto MSY, DFW, and SFO IIRC.

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