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Braybuddy
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79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:54 am

 
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AirPacific747
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:10 am

She must have been very aggressive because you wouldn't think a 79 year old could do much harm. I wonder what this is going to cost her. If she was in First Class, she probably has money to pay for the diversion.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:20 am

I sometimes wonder if some of the unacceptable behaviour we hear about is due to hypoxia.
Even when normally pressurised, some people may be hypoxic at that cabin altitude.

If so it will be interesting to do the numbers in a few years when the 787/350 have accumulated more hours, to see if the incidence of bad behaviour is lower on those types.

Ruscoe
 
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777Jet
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:33 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):
She must have been very aggressive because you wouldn't think a 79 year old could do much harm.

She could have been very fit / athletic with a black belt in martial arts... 

Or, maybe the nuts were served in a bag instead of on a plate and it made her go nuts...  
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atcsundevil
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 1):

I'm a paramedic and I'll just say that even little old ladies are capable of doing some serious damage. I've been assaulted by a 76 year old woman and a 94 year old woman just in the past few months. If an elderly person has some kind of cognitive disorder like dementia, an underlying behavioral disorder, or they've had some kind of head trauma, they can easily become very combative and agitated. It doesn't take someone very strong to scratch or bite, believe me.

It would seem strange in this case for the woman to apparently randomly become aggressive, but if it is because of some sort of cognitive or behavioral disorder, it is what it is. It isn't her fault and there's not much of a way to prevent something like this from happening. Now, a middle aged guy getting drunk and doing the same thing? Totally unacceptable. However, if a 79 year old found herself in this sort of situation, my guess is that it's because of an underlying condition. I doubt we'll get the full story though.
 
migair54
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 4):
I've been assaulted by a 76 year old woman and a 94 year old woman just in the past few months

What do you do??   

Most of the problems are because of the tension and stress travelling causes, yesterday I was boarding a plane (A320) and we were around 50 pax, still fighting in the line, and people making cue 20 min before even start the boarding, and you can see so many family fights and big arguments in airports, Alcohol is usually another factor to consider.

Once I read that the possibility to have a heart attack in airports is higher than anywhere else.
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 2):
If so it will be interesting to do the numbers in a few years when the 787/350 have accumulated more hours, to see if the incidence of bad behaviour is lower on those types.

Please pardon my ignorance but what is the difference between one pressurized cabin at altitude and another?
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airbuster
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 2:03 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 6):

787/350 cabin alt is about half that of other types, around 4000ft iso 7000/8000ft.
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flylku
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting airbuster (Reply 7):
787/350 cabin alt is about half that of other types, around 4000ft iso 7000/8000ft.

I thought it was 6000 versus 8000.
...are we there yet?
 
JAGflyer
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:24 pm

They reported this on the radio this morning in Toronto. The announcer referred to the flight being from Frankenfurt to Toronto.
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Kaiarahi
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:35 pm

Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
Armodeen
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 7:46 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 4):

Good theory but she likely wouldn't have been arrested if she had severe dementia etc  
 
flytimbo77
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 5):

Once I read that the possibility to have a heart attack in airports is higher than anywhere else.

I'd be interested to read more about that, do you remember where you read it?
 
awthompson
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:13 pm

Some data for those interested:
I happened to see this event transpiring on flightradar and subsequently caught flight landing at SNN on LiveATC.
Flight was AC877 which left FRA at 17:37 Central European Time.
Aircraft was Boeing 777-333ER C-FITW.
Flight was well out on the Atlantic Ocean a few hundred miles off North West Ireland and turned back eastwards towards Ireland.
Appeared initially to be heading back to FRA, or possibly LHR. Then over Donegal, made a sharp right turn to head south clearly having decided to go to Shannon. Then did a zig zig pattern going down the west coast of Ireland likely to bring the aircraft weight down.
On landing at SNN, flight had been airborne for well over three hours!
Eventually got airborne again from SNN at 22:00 local time in Ireland with same crew to continue to YYZ.
Finally arrived at Toronto 4 hours and 34 mins late !!!
 
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gdg9
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:27 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 2):

I sometimes wonder if some of the unacceptable behaviour we hear about is due to hypoxia.
Even when normally pressurised, some people may be hypoxic at that cabin altitude.

If so it will be interesting to do the numbers in a few years when the 787/350 have accumulated more hours, to see if the incidence of bad behaviour is lower on those types.

Never really considered that, good question. I'd also be interested to see that data down the line.
@dfwtower
 
migair54
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:00 am

Quoting flytimbo77 (Reply 12):
I'd be interested to read more about that, do you remember where you read it?

I don´t remenber exactly but it was in an article on a newspaper after some "famous" guy die in an airport, there is also some studies that noise from the airports also increase the risk of cardiovascular problems. http://www.bbc.com/news/health-24432162

Quoting awthompson (Reply 13):

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/ACA877/history/20150410/1515Z/EDDF/CYYZ

The situation must have been very bad to divert the flight, a 79 years old woman should not be a dangerous person to handle but maybe she was too tense or out of her mind and they fear for her health also.
 
tonymctigue
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 11):
Good theory but she likely wouldn't have been arrested if she had severe dementia etc

I would suspect standard protocol would be that the passenger would be arrested. Your average Garda or flight crew would not be trained to identify someone suffering from dementia and therefore I suspect that the Gardai would have to base their first response on the report they would have recieved from ATC which would have been of a disruptive passenger resulting in a diversion. I would suspect that they would continue to treat the case as such until they recieve sufficient medical evidence for dementia. SNN is no stranger to these types of diversion so the Gardai at Shannon are well used to these cases.
Airports: SNN GWY NOC DUB ORK BOS EWR JFK ORD MCI BOI SEA LHR STN CDG LYS FAO GVA HKG MEL ADL HBA
 
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atcsundevil
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 11):
Good theory but she likely wouldn't have been arrested if she had severe dementia etc

I don't know how it works in other countries, but in the US, she'd be placed under arrest/detained until a psychiatric hold could be obtained through a court.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 11):
Good theory but she likely wouldn't have been arrested if she had severe dementia etc

She would be arrested first and then taken for a psych evaluation at a hospital. She may have been on an antipsychotic as many geriatric patients are. They hand out Haldol and Risperdal like M and M's to that age group.

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 16):
SNN is no stranger to these types of diversion so the Gardai at Shannon are well used to these cases.


Very true. I diverted to SNN on a flight from DTW to FRA when I had one passenger with uncontrolled vomiting and another that a MD onboard identified as a heart attack. I started IV's on both and got creative in bending the metal pieces from the headsets to attach them to the overhead bins. We landed at SNN at about 0400 and the EMT's and an MD walked on board. The doctor looked at the IV's and at me and I said "Don't ask. It's been a really sh***y night. They got them off and we were airborne again in less than an hour.
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Viscount724
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:14 pm

The thread subject should be corrected. The woman was 87, not 79, according to all recent news reports on the incident.
 
Armodeen
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 7:29 pm

True enough. I guess it may be a simple question of symantics after all. In the UK she would certainly be detained (under section 136 of the mental health act) but not likely arrested, an onlooker would not know the difference. I am not familiar with Irish law.

Although of course she could of just been cantankerous/drunk like anyone else  
 
Viscount724
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Sun Apr 12, 2015 8:27 pm

Quoting tonymctigue (Reply 16):
dementia. SNN is no stranger to these types of diversion so the Gardai at Shannon are well used to these cases.

That's not the first AC flight that diverted to SNN due to someone onboard with mental issues, except the last one involved a pilot, not a passenger. AC 763 en route YYZ-LHR in January 2008 diverted to SNN after the first officer had some type of mental breakdown and had to be forcibly removed from the cockpit and restrained for the remainder of the flight while the captain diverted to SNN. A female flight attendant with a commercial pilot's license assisted the captain during the diversion.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ter-co-pilot-incapacitated-319070/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/34...er-co-pilots-mental-breakdown.html
 
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longhauler
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:21 am

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 9):
The announcer referred to the flight being from Frankenfurt

Well you know ... they are doing a remake of The Rocky Horror Picture Show!  
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
OMP777X
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:43 am

According to RT the woman was 79, but in their headline they reported her as being 80yo. Apparently she bit a few crew members and scratched them until they tied her up and restrained her in a "tether".

It does sound to me like she was losing her mind. I doubt that this type of behaviour is solely a result of someone being up there in their years. She may have demetia and not known what was going on.

http://rt.com/news/248957-air-canada-plane-diverted/

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OMP777X
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coachclass
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Mon Apr 13, 2015 1:54 am

Whether 79 or 87, you'd think that she would be traveling with someone, even if it's first class. It's probably a matter of dementia of some kind.

Or maybe just a wealthy, ornery eccentric. Kids can't travel alone, so maybe we should start considering that the very elderly should have traveling companions.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:17 pm

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 26):
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 18):
Interesting story. I didn't realize they let you guys start IVs -- that could be very useful, especially on ULH flights, so that's a good skill to possess and be able to utilize.

Regular f/a's cannot start IV's but I, like many other flight attendants, am a Registered Nurse.

Legally, anyone can start an IV--it does not take a license. As a matter of fact it is not even taught in nursing school--you learn it on the hospital floor. Someone hands you the stuff and says "Go start an IV on Mrs. X." The usual rule is "watch one, do one, teach one."
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atcsundevil
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RE: 79-y.o. Woman Disrupts AC Flight, Diverts To SNN

Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:04 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 27):

If you have a medical license that doesn't include IV administration in its scope of practice, then it's definitely illegal! EMTs in most states are not allowed to start or monitor IVs unless their local protocols allow for it. I'm guessing they teach it now in nursing school though -- there's at least a 10 hour block on it in medic school where you practice on simulators (dummies, basically) and other students. I know there's additional training required for blood transfusion...I've heard of RNs getting fired for transfusing without having a properly established line.

I had no idea that there were signficant numbers of FAs who were also RNs, probably because I suppose I never really thought about it. I just assumed most RNs who took to the skies went the flight nurse route because it pays so well! It's good to know that there are a bunch of you guys up there rather than having to rely on what I can only assume is abbreviated medical training to most cabin crew or relying on medically trained pax on board.

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