ACDC8
Topic Author
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Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:30 pm

Seems that CA66 has been missing since early this morning just northeast of Vancouver on its flight from YVR to YXS

"A search is underway for Carson Air Flight 66, after the plane travelling from Vancouver to Prince George went missing on Monday morning with two pilots aboard.

Officials with the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre say the twin-engine SA-226 Metro II took off from YVR at 6:43 a.m. PT and was supposed to land at YXS at 8 a.m.

However, NavCanada's Kamloops Flight Information Centre lost radar contact with the cargo flight at around 7 a.m., when the flight was northeast of Vancouver.

Vancouver and Prince George airport authorities are working with the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre in the search for the plane.

A Canadian Forces Cormorant aircraft has been deployed to trace the route of the missing plane.

Operations at Vancouver international Airport and Prince George Airport are not affected."


http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/britis...to-prince-george-missing-1.3030941
A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
 
Armodeen
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:09 pm

Sounds very bad. What is weather like on the ground up there at the moment?

Best wishes to all involved
 
CdnCactus
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:10 pm

Just saw that...way overdue.

Hoping for good outcome for the 2 souls on board.
 
threepoint
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:10 pm

Flight stopped tracking soon after takeoff http://flightaware.com/live/flight/CA66 and was last seen by radar above the north shore mountains. The weather is below VFR there at the moment, which will obviously hamper SAR efforts.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
tomcbaker
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Mon Apr 13, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
What is weather like on the ground up there at the moment?

Typical for CYVR this time of year; most of the day the winds have been variable at 10-15kts, rain/mist, decent visibility, ceiling around 2000ft. The flight lost contact about 15 minutes after departure which means it was probably north of the Fraser Valley/YVR somewhere in the mountains (same region that the Whistler ski resort is in) if it was on a fairly straight flight plan to YXS.
Tom
 
YVRLTN
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 4):
The flight lost contact about 15 minutes after departure which means it was probably north of the Fraser Valley/YVR somewhere in the mountains (same region that the Whistler ski resort is in) if it was on a fairly straight flight plan to YXS.

From the flightradar track I saw it seems to be just north of Mt Seymour, so thats pretty inhospitable terrain. Sadly I doubt this will be a good ending.

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
What is weather like on the ground up there at the moment?

Wet. Very low ceilings and heavy rain showers passing through. Theres been a CH149 Cormorant flying around and it came back to YVR to wait out a huge cloudburst. Visibility was terrible at sea level while raining, I was on the north shore earlier today and the clouds were very low, way too risky to do much flying.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
YVRLTN
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:12 am

Reports of debris spotted and smell of jet fuel between Grouse & Cathedral Mountains by north shore S&R. Assume that is the Talon AS350 guys. Those guys are amazing...

Also reports of moderate to severe turbulence and icing down to 3000'. It seems they were at about 8000' and climbing at time of loss of radio contact, so that is well clear of the rocks.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
kamloops
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:09 am

Being reported from Global News:

"
VANCOUVER – Crews searching for a missing plane say they have found debris in the North Shore mountains.

The Joint Rescue Co-Ordination Centre (JRCC) says one wing and the fuselage have been located after a cargo plane departing from YVR was reported missing. The two pilots aboard the plane have not been found.

Carson Air Flight 66 was supposed to land in Prince George at 8 a.m. but Vancouver Airport Authority says it lost contact with NavCanada’s Kamloops Flight Information Centre at about 7:10 a.m.

Naval Lt. Paul Trenholm of the JRCC says no contact was made with the pilots in the white, Sweringen SA 226 aircraft before it disappeared from radar.



In a statement, Carson Air said:

“Carson Air can confirm that one [of] our regular cargo flights flying out of Vancouver did not land in Prince George as scheduled. Air Traffic Control lost radar contact 10 minutes out of Vancouver in a north-easterly direction near Mt. Seymour Park. At that time the plane was at an altitude of approximately 9,000 feet and appeared to be on a normal profile.

“There was no emergency or mayday call from the pilots.”

North Shore Rescue is doing a grid search in an area of the North Shore mountains where they smelled fuel and they came across a large field of objects. They say they will continue searching the area until nightfall.

URL: http://globalnews.ca/news/1935907/ca...board-missing-after-departing-yvr/
 
YXXMIKE
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 6:55 pm

I'd like to say that I'm in shock or that this has taken me off guard but here we are again in BC with another older freight plane down and out and what I can only assume is two young hard working pilots who won't be making it home...

I hope I'm wrong but mountains don't tend to be forgiving places if you are in trouble. I don't know what happened and to this one and to be quite frank I don't care but a fatal incident every 2-3 years with very similar characteristics...small west coast based operator flying( pick from the list: PA31/MU2/Metroliner/Islander) with two pilots just trying to build hours on low pay so they could realize whatever their flying career dream was. As I did before I salute these hard working crew's and I wish them well, but I'd like to find out why BC and to a much further degree the TSB isn't regulating these small cargo ops a lot more. I just hope it isn't cost.
 
L0VE2FLY
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:19 pm

Hope the crew miraculously made it, if not RIP.


Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 8):
small west coast based operator flying( pick from the list: PA31/MU2/Metroliner/Islander) with two pilots just trying to build hours on low pay so they could realize whatever their flying career dream was.

What's the minimum flight time for airline pilots in Canada? Is it like the US (1500 hrs.)?
 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 9):
What's the minimum flight time for airline pilots in Canada? Is it like the US (1500 hrs.)?

The 1500 hour rule only applies to a 121 carrier. If this same flight was being operated in the US, it would likely be operated under 135, which requires 1200 hours for the captain (and generally no first officer aboard).

-DiamondFlyer
From my cold, dead hands
 
Bartonsayswhat
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:25 pm

 
threepoint
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting L0VE2FLY (Reply 9):
What's the minimum flight time for airline pilots in Canada? Is it like the US (1500 hrs.)?

Yes, the captain of a two-crew aircraft like the Metroliner would need a minimum of an ATPL and 1500 hours total time. The FO can hold a Commercial license and occupy the right seat at 200 hours. These are the absolute legal minimums of course.

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 8):
As I did before I salute these hard working crew's and I wish them well, but I'd like to find out why BC and to a much further degree the TSB isn't regulating these small cargo ops a lot more.

Regulators can force all sorts of tightened rules upon small operators, but those companies themselves are often operating on very tight margins. I have no idea what the experience levels of the pilots was, and whether it played a role in the accident. It could well be that at least one of the crew members was a low time timebuilder who went through the Carson flight training program and built just enough instructing hours (at Carson) to meet qualifications...jumping from a 172 directly to the Metroliner with both eyes fixated firmly on the company's Citations.

Many pilots are their own worst enemies. They deplore the low wages, poor working conditions, lack of benefits and servitude to dishonorable employers. But almost to a man, they will claw over each other to sit in that right seat and perpetuate the vicious cycle.

Before we imply that this is a result of a lack of regulation, let's wait to see if this was related to a mechanical, or weather or human factor or combination of any of the above. http://www.carsonair.com/safety/
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
YVRLTN
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:06 am

TSB have stated a rapid descent, which points to something mechanical. Ice is also being mentioned a bit and how bad the Metro is in ice...

Quoting threepoint (Reply 12):
Regulators can force all sorts of tightened rules upon small operators, but those companies themselves are often operating on very tight margins

I dont know, but I remember the discussion when Carson resecured the Dynamex contract from Orca after their gongshow handling it and basically Dynamex crawled back to Carson on hands and knees, who then called the shots and named the price. Im sure its not brilliant, but probably not at break even point.

Quoting bartonsayswhat (Reply 11):
Sounds like bodies of crew have been found
http://globalnews.ca/news/1935907/up...-aboard-crashed-cargo-plane-found/

Great - lets blame the Metro after no dirt can be found on Carson...

Quoting YXXMIKE (Reply 8):

I'd like to say that I'm in shock or that this has taken me off guard but here we are again in BC with another older freight plane down and out and what I can only assume is two young hard working pilots who won't be making it home...

This post is sobering. No doubt you are familiar with discussions on avcanada back in the day on Orca and Regency & Navair and so on before them. This immediately reminded of the PA31 that piled into Ikea and the Sonicblue C208 and I thought the bad old days of YVR south side were over. I believe they are and I have no reason to believe Carson are anything but an stellar operation, but it does make you wonder as you say...

Frame seems to be C-GSKC if anyone is interested, built 1977.
Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
 
threepoint
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 13):
This immediately reminded of the PA31 that piled into Ikea and the Sonicblue C208 and I thought the bad old days of YVR south side were over. I believe they are

And the flaming Navajo that just about made it back to Comox and the oil-starved King Air that just about made it back to YVR and so on and so on...

It's just as likely today as it was a few years ago that we'll continue to see similar accidents, although there was a particularly bad stretch of -703 accidents in a year: http://www.canada.com/story_print.ht...a819a-e601-4f36-84cc-603d5f79fc8d.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
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speedbird707
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:18 pm

...or....it was nothing to do with companies or plane...may be it was just an accident. We heard about rain and snow, which I am sure would have an icing impact...slag not what we don't know.
 
threepoint
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting speedbird707 (Reply 15):
.slag not what we don't know.

Nobody's slagging anybody here. There are legitimate comments about pilot experience within the industry. The company in question had never suffered a crash or TC investigation prior to this week, hence my including the company's safety link.

Icing is widely speculated, as the conditions were conducive at the time of the accident. If the engine inlet anti-ice was not turned on, or turned on after the beginning of ice accretion, it could lead to a dual engine flameout. That would turn the Metro into a stubby-winged anvil and explain the rapid descent.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.
 
marktci
Posts: 196
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:23 pm

The TSB is now saying that the wreckage is consistent with an in-air break-up.

Quote:
VANCOUVER - The Transportation Safety Board says a twin-engine plane that crashed in the mountains north of Vancouver might have broken up while in flight.

The board says the crew did not declare an emergency and the aircraft dropped from an altitude of 2,400 metres to about 900 metres in less than 20 seconds.

It says this evidence — combined with the wreckage dispersal and the lack of terrain damage — is consistent with in-flight break-up.
http://www.theprovince.com/technolog...+broken+flight/10978907/story.html
 
threepoint
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RE: Carson Air Metroliner Missing YVR-YXS

Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting marktci (Reply 17):
The Transportation Safety Board says a twin-engine plane that crashed in the mountains north of Vancouver might have broken up while in flight.

No surprise, given they announced they had found "a wing" and "some papers" when the wreckage was first located, and in the next breath mentioned how hard it was to spot as there were no broken tree tops or telltale swath through the timber.
One wonders if an inflight breakup caused the uncontrollable descent, or if the uncontrollable descent caused the inflight breakup.
The nice thing about a mistake is the pleasure it gives others.

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