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crazytoaster
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OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:53 pm

OneJet is a new Indianapolis based airline that is focused on business travelers. They use smaller 7 seat Hawker 400s and just started IND to MKE on April 6th. They are going to announce more routes on April 24th with the assumption that they are from IND. Found this article that OneJet has talked with PIT about possibly adding flights.

http://www.post-gazette.com/business/pittsburgh-company-news/2015/04/11/Indianapolis-based-airline-sets-sights-on-Pittsburgh/stories/201504110070

Anyone have any thoughts on new routes or on OneJet? I found them interesting as IND is my home airport.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
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MKE22
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:05 am

Quoting crazytoaster (Thread starter):
I found them interesting as IND is my home airport.

They are also on Expedia, should help them a little bit. Could be legit, only time will tell.
 
rscaife1682
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:30 am

They are also on BCD travel which is great for business travelers. When thinking of expanding ops I would not assume all flight will be out of IND.
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:19 am

I believe OneJet's leadership is actually Boston-based, though their initial operations are out of Indy. Their ambitions are to connect many medium-sized business markets in the eastern US without nonstop flights -- it's definitely not simply to create an Indy-based airline.

Here in MKE they opened their own ticket counter with two kiosks rather than simply paying someone to handle them, so one might suspect they have ambitions beyond four 7- or 8-passenger flights per week. It appears they're leasing a two-position counter in PIT as well. One could easily come up with a long list of markets that might well fit their business plan out of IND, MKE, PIT, CMH, BNA, CLE, STL, MEM, BDL, RIC, MCI, JAX, MSY, BHM, ORF and many other cities. What's needed is a steady stream of business travelers willing to pay high business fares -- not simply passengers.

It seems like IND-PIT is next up, though it's hard to know how large a role IND will play or how soon we may see non-Indianapolis markets come, assuming they succeed.

It's kind of funny -- OneJet is starting out with some IND markets for Indy-originating traffic, but the Indianapolis airport and Indy media haven't given much attention -- much more coverage in the Milwaukee media and the MKE airport, and already in the Pittsburgh press on speculation. If OneJet is successful they have the potential to offer flights in markets which have very little chance of ever seeing scheduled service again. I actually find their business plan rather exciting and a hopeful sign.
 
COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:05 am

They want top level service so the Ticket agents work for oneJet; Does US/AA still fly IND-PIT ?? I did hear they want to stop that route; also UA quit IND-CLE and many business pax were upset . Both are long drives ; and it's anoying to conect via ORD or DTW
 
Cubsrule
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 3):
It seems like IND-PIT is next up, though it's hard to know how large a role IND will play or how soon we may see non-Indianapolis markets come, assuming they succeed.

As we think of focus cities, it seems like we need decently large markets that are not hubs and do not have a large WN operation. In a place like STL, WN already covers many potential routes (MKE, MCI, BNA, OKC, TUL, etc.). In that regard, PIT, IND and CMH seem like interesting options, as do some somewhat smaller markets like GRR, BHM and SDF. I'm skeptical of their ability to get a critical mass in a GRR-sized market, though.

And as they grow (and if they run a reasonably reliable operation), I think they might be able to pick up a few connecting passengers, mostly folks who know and appreciate the product and convenience. If I need to go RIC-STL, IND sure seems like a more pleasant place to connect than ORD, CLT or ATL.
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 4):
Does US/AA still fly IND-PIT

No, IND-PIT hasn't been served since late 2008.

Quoting COSPN (Reply 4):
also UA quit IND-CLE and many business pax were upset .

IND-CLE seems like a pretty good shot. Delta tried IND-CLE-IND with an Indy-focused schedule on a 50-seat RJ. They averaged 12 onboard passengers eastbound and 15 onboard passengers westbound -- dismal for an RJ but much more in line for what OneJet proposes.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
As we think of focus cities, it seems like we need decently large markets that are not hubs and do not have a large WN operation. In a place like STL, WN already covers many potential routes (MKE, MCI, BNA, OKC, TUL, etc.). In that regard, PIT, IND and CMH seem like interesting options, as do some somewhat smaller markets like GRR, BHM and SDF. I'm skeptical of their ability to get a critical mass in a GRR-sized market, though.

I think this has strong potential even in markets with a significant WN presence, but only in those city pairs which are not a good fit for Southwest service. At STL there are markets like Little Rock, Wichita, Dayton, Birmingham which Southwest isn't likely to enter. There are other markets like OKC where the WN schedule doesn't work well one direction or the other -- if you're OKC-based the single WN nonstop to STL doesn't work well for business -- the earliest Southwest can get you into STL today is 12:20pm with a connection, and the latest STL-OKC flight is a 4:20pm connection over Houston which takes over 7 hours. I doubt Southwest would do much to contest a business jet flying OKC-STL in the early morning and returning STL-OKC in the late afternoon. The presence of a sizable WN operation does mean more risk, but there are opportunities below the radar.

Where the success or failure of this service is probably hardest to estimate is that it needs to target markets with business travel willing to move from the existing means of travel. You can't simply pick two cities above population X and assume it will work. You can't even necessarily know that company X has operations in cities AAA and BBB because they may run a corporate shuttle of their own or have strict policies on using negotiated-vendor travel contracts. Larger cities probably have a better shot at generating ample high-fare business traffic as an amalgam of various companies rather than just a few, but it's still not a certainty. Ho

I definitely think the market is there for this service if the economics to turn a buck are there. So far their IND-MKE fares are very much in line with historic business fares, ones flyers willing paid in previous years to avoid the often-nasty drive through metro Chicago.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
And as they grow (and if they run a reasonably reliable operation), I think they might be able to pick up a few connecting passengers, mostly folks who know and appreciate the product and convenience. If I need to go RIC-STL, IND sure seems like a more pleasant place to connect than ORD, CLT or ATL.

Definitely a thought, though it depends on the economics and how they propose to operate their system. System-wise their initial plans have them essentially operating a morning outbound and a late afternoon return with the plane sitting idle during the day. That sort of scheduling philosophy essentially precludes the possibility of connections. I suspect that could change somewhat -- I don't think there's likely to be an eventual all-out switch to "utilization" scheduling, but I could see business traffic supporting 3x in a market like IND-MKE fairly easily when it matures a bit. That sort of scheduling could support connections. The other possible stumbling block with connections is economic. If OneJet charges $225 one way to make STL-IND work and $275 one way to make IND-RIC work, can they sell a STL-IND-RIC ticket for anything less than $500 without losing money on the transaction? Yield management's goal is to sell that STL-IND-RIC ticket for a seat which would otherwise remained empty for more revenue then the marginal cost. But the moment they sell a STL-IND-RIC for a lower fare and it displaces a high-fare local passenger they've hurt themselves. With such small aircraft the type of yield management which can know when to sell a STL-IND-RIC ticket for less than $500 is a tough call.

Overall I think this is a very interesting and exciting venture here because they're doing something nobody else is. It's easy to come up with scores of potential markets for this service which are markets with virtually no chance of ever being served in the current environment, many of which had been served nonstop for decades. I hope they succeed....
 
Cubsrule
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:58 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 6):
At STL there are markets like Little Rock, Wichita, Dayton, Birmingham which Southwest isn't likely to enter.

WN has flown LIT and, IIRC, BHM within the last 5-6 years. I agree that they won't be back, but if the local market was a bit stronger, they likely would have stayed.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 6):
I doubt Southwest would do much to contest a business jet flying OKC-STL in the early morning and returning STL-OKC in the late afternoon.

Agreed, but there's an issue of inertia too. Many of us who use the short, low-frequency WN flights time our business to make them when we can. I'd be a lot more interested in BNA-IND on OneJet than on BNA-STL because I have some (admittedly imperfect) nonstop options on BNA-STL.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 6):
With such small aircraft the type of yield management which can know when to sell a STL-IND-RIC ticket for less than $500 is a tough call.

I agree, which is why I used the word "few." There are certainly revenue management challenges, but my guess is that the network will mature to a point where they can identify a few seats that almost always remain empty, and I don't know that selling something the length of STL-RIC for $500 is necessarily a turnoff. I see it as something like the old WN model--"we'll connect you if the schedule works and we a have seat, but it's really not what we're built for."
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
RJNUT
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
And as they grow (and if they run a reasonably reliable operation), I think they might be able to pick up a few connecting passengers, mostly folks who know and appreciate the product and convenience. If I need to go RIC-STL, IND sure seems like a more pleasant place to connect than ORD, CLT or ATL.

A ZERO checked luggage policy will keep that traffic minimal, only one carry on allowed







 
Cubsrule
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:24 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 8):
A ZERO checked luggage policy will keep that traffic minimal, only one carry on allowed

I can quite easily live for a week out of a personal item and a 22 inch roller bag, which they allow.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:38 pm

CMH and STL are easy drive from IND ... CLE and PIT are not
 
crazytoaster
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:31 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 6):

Overall I think this is a very interesting and exciting venture here because they're doing something nobody else is. It's easy to come up with scores of potential markets for this service which are markets with virtually no chance of ever being served in the current environment, many of which had been served nonstop for decades. I hope they succeed....

Yes it is very interesting. I really hope it is successful, it would be great for a lot of midsize cities. I am really curious to learn more about OneJet their website doesn't say too much.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 5):
As we think of focus cities, it seems like we need decently large markets that are not hubs and do not have a large WN operation. In a place like STL, WN already covers many potential routes (MKE, MCI, BNA, OKC, TUL, etc.). In that regard, PIT, IND and CMH seem like interesting options, as do some somewhat smaller markets like GRR, BHM and SDF. I'm skeptical of their ability to get a critical mass in a GRR-sized market, though.

And as they grow (and if they run a reasonably reliable operation), I think they might be able to pick up a few connecting passengers, mostly folks who know and appreciate the product and convenience. If I need to go RIC-STL, IND sure seems like a more pleasant place to connect than ORD, CLT or ATL.

As much as I would love to see IND become a connecting hub that would ruin some of the appeal of the OneJet operation. They want to provide nonstops between unserved business markets. Adding connections even at IND would not appeal to business travelers and would be difficult to pull off with their smaller planes.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:51 pm

No connections that's what ORD and DTW are for
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:12 am

OneJet's website says Pentastar Aviation in Michigan (sounds like it used to be a Chrysler property) is doing their flying, but FlightAware shows Red Carpet Properties of Texas doing the actual IND-MKE-IND flights.

Anybody know if these two are related companies? These little guys often are. (Or maybe FlightAware is wrong.)
 
COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:23 pm

They are somehow Pentastar is the operator as filed with the DOT aircraft Is IND based.

Red carpet is a Ford lease word and Edsel Ford owns Pentastar not Chrysler anymore

[Edited 2015-04-15 05:26:55] so I'd guess they are related somehow

[Edited 2015-04-15 05:30:46]
 
AA623BDLSJU
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:33 am

This is what I saw in Sabre:

J1/** 1001 Y0 B0 H0 K0 INDMKE 815A 815A BE4 0 DCA /E
L0 M0 Q0 V4

That equipment certainly has more than 8 seats.
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COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:13 am

BeachJet 400a has 7-9 seats but they only sell 7 to allow for the hand carry bags.
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:56 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 16):
BeachJet 400a has 7-9 seats but they only sell 7 to allow for the hand carry bags.

Currently OneJet is only selling 4 seats on each flight.

Their Beechjet is equipped with 7 seats (1 forward aft-facing seat, and three rows of two) plus the toilet which can be used as a seat in a pinch. The toilet seat is certified for passengers, however OneJet has no plans to sell it as a passenger seat.

I flew on the OneJet inaugural MKE-IND flight. There were three passengers onboard (myself included) plus the company's CEO. Between the four of us there were two carry-on bags and one suitcase. The suitcase was stowed in the aft baggage compartment, but the two additional backpacks were carried aboard; both backpacks flew in their own seat for lack of a better space. There's a small baggage area in the aft area adjacent to the toilet, but not enough for more than one or two bags.

I anticipate that OneJet will have some difficulty with baggage in the long-run; a full plane will be very, very, cramped. A half empty plane on the other hand was quite luxurious...
I reject your reality and substitute my own...
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:30 pm

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 17):
I flew on the OneJet inaugural MKE-IND flight.

Could you tell if the plane was a regular old Beech 400A or one of the re-engined Nextant rebuilds?

I'd love to know OneJet's CASM.  
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:57 pm

Just to get some ideas of market that might fit OneJet's plans I pulled some historical numbers for fare and passenger stats.

A lot of the most fertile markets were served nonstop before widespread de-hubbing and when smaller aircraft were still flying. So I decided to go back about a decade or so. I ended up using Q2 2006 because ExpressJet (CO*) stats were missing form many quarters, but they are present in this quarter.

Here are the markets I limited down to:
--Originate from IND, MKE, PIT, MCI, STL, BNA, MEM, CLE or CMH.
--500 miles or shorter
--4:30 drive or longer
--50 or more passengers per day (both ways combined)
--35 cents per (air) mile yield
--No current nonstop flight

yield …... fare .… air miles .. pax/day .. drive
172.1 ….. 206.55 ….. 120 ……. 58 ….. 4:30 ….. MKE ….. GRR
109.4 ….. 285.57 ….. 261 …... 113 ….. 4:45 ….. IND ….. CLE
108.7 ….. 281.47 ….. 259 ……. 51 ….. 5:30 ….. PIT ….. RIC
098.8 ….. 208.50 ….. 211 ……. 55 ….. 5:45 ….. MKE ….. FNT
097.6 ….. 358.33 ….. 367 ……. 60 ….. 7:30 ….. PIT ….. ALB
092.5 ….. 220.20 ….. 238 …...102 ….. 4:30 ….. IND ….. MKE
087.8 ….. 317.88 ….. 362 ……. 60 ….. 7:15 ….. CLE ….. RIC
083.1 ….. 252.49 ….. 304 ……. 76 ….. 5:15 ….. CLE ….. SDF
075.9 ….. 265.04 ….. 349 ……. 67 ….. 5:45 ….. MEM ….. MSY
074.6 ….. 253.04 ….. 339 ……. 59 ….. 6:15 ….. CLE ….. ABE
072.5 ….. 284.07 ….. 392 ……. 82 ….. 7:30 ….. MCI ….. MEM
068.8 ….. 227.58 ….. 331 …... 121 ….. 7:00 ….. CMH ….. MKE
065.3 ….. 185.57 ….. 284 ……. 56 ….. 6:15 ….. MKE ….. DAY
064.5 ….. 245.76 ….. 381 ……. 99 ….. 6:45 ….. IND ….. MEM
064.4 ….. 212.49 ….. 330 ……. 88 ….. 6:45 ….. PIT ….. ORF
060.7 ….. 237.81 ….. 392 ……. 73 ….. 6:45 ….. STL ….. ICT
056.8 ….. 190.32 ….. 335 ……. 75 ….. 6:00 ….. PIT ….. SDF
051.9 ….. 195.85 ….. 377 ……. 50 ….. 7:00 ….. BNA ….. GSP
051.7 ….. 168.13 ….. 325 …... 127 ….. 5:30 ….. IND ….. PIT
051.3 ….. 230.98 ….. 450 ……. 61 ….. 9:15 ….. CLE ….. GSP
051.2 ….. 220.59 ….. 431 …... 119 ….. 9:00 ….. MKE ….. PIT
048.9 ….. 207.50 ….. 424 ……. 95 ….. 7:15 ….. CLE ….. ALB
047.7 ….. 203.32 ….. 426 ……. 97 ….. 7:45 ….. MKE ….. OMA
044.3 ….. 152.48 ….. 344 ……. 50 ….. 6:15 ….. MCI ….. LIT
044.1 ….. 188.16 ….. 427 ……. 52 ….. 8:45 ….. IND ….. GSO
042.0 ….. 197.41 ….. 470 ……. 54 ….. 8:15 ….. BNA ….. GRR
041.5 ….. 166.95 ….. 402 ……. 53 ….. 7:30 ….. CLE ….. MSN
038.7 ….. 190.91 ….. 493 ……. 83 ….. 8:20 ….. CMH ….. BHM
037.1 ….. 176.27 ….. 475 …... 139 ….. 8:45 ….. MKE ….. BNA
036.1 ….. 148.00 ….. 410 …... 135 ….. 7:15 ….. STL ….. BHM

I'm not sure what sorts of fares they really need to make money, but there are some markets with a history of paying rather high fares for relatively short hops. These are only average fares and include some lower-fare VFR traffic, so business fares are likely higher.
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 17):
Currently OneJet is only selling 4 seats on each flight.

Their Beechjet is equipped with 7 seats (1 forward aft-facing seat, and three rows of two) plus the toilet which can be used as a seat in a pinch. The toilet seat is certified for passengers, however OneJet has no plans to sell it as a passenger seat.

Interesting -- do you know if they are going to sell all 7 anytime in the future? And if so, do you think they have any chance to carry 7 people and a fairly modest carry-on for each?
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:00 am

Based on marketing info from Nextant, which rebuilds/re-engines Beech 400s, the plane/mile cost ranges from $2.36 - 2.71 per nm. OneJet is charging $483 for the IND-MKE round trip or about $1.17 per nm. So based only on variable costs (no G&A, depreciation, etc), they should make a little on the third passenger. Selling 5 seats probably would cover all costs and make them some real money.

If they stick to knope's markets listed above, they could come up with a nice and profitable (little) operation.
 
KPWMSpotter
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18):
Could you tell if the plane was a regular old Beech 400A or one of the re-engined Nextant rebuilds?

Regular old 400A. They're currently using N497RC, a 400A built in 2000.

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 18):
I'd love to know OneJet's CASM. 

On my flight we were ground-stopped for more than an hour. I'm pretty sure we burnt through more gas than my ticket cost, just sitting on the ground...

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 20):
Interesting -- do you know if they are going to sell all 7 anytime in the future? And if so, do you think they have any chance to carry 7 people and a fairly modest carry-on for each?

They plan to sell all seven, once they "figure out the baggage situation". I'm sure it will work if all baggage goes in the hold, but if the plane had been full, there would have been nowhere in the cabin for my camera case (except my lap).
I reject your reality and substitute my own...
 
crazytoaster
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:50 pm

Quoting KPWMSpotter (Reply 22):
They plan to sell all seven, once they "figure out the baggage situation". I'm sure it will work if all baggage goes in the hold, but if the plane had been full, there would have been nowhere in the cabin for my camera case (except my lap).

Have you shared your pics of the inaugural flight? I would be interested. And how was the flight itself?
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:02 pm

http://aviationweek.com/business-avi...hjet-400ahawker-400xpnextant-400xt

Interesting discussion of the various versions of the Mitsubishi/Beech/Hawker/Nextant 400 aircraft. The updated version sounds like a good choice for operating costs on OneJet's planned routes if they can manage the acquisition expense.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:27 am

According to their website, a service expansion will be announced today, Apr 24.
 
crazytoaster
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:52 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 25):
According to their website, a service expansion will be announced today, Apr 24.

Yep and they announced the speculated IND to PIT flights

http://www.insideindianabusiness.com/newsitem.asp?ID=70449
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 3:07 pm

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 26):
Yep and they announced the speculated IND to PIT flights

Great - with their next announcement coming "as soon as May 7th."

I guess it's not too soon for a management take-over by a.netters. I wonder why they don't leave a bit earlier and arrive in time to tack on (just an example) a PIT-SYR leg - getting a bit more our of the plane and crew. Maybe they don't want to overcomplicate things while they are still working out the kinks.
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:48 pm

They're actually starting MKE-PIT first on 5/4, then IND-PIT on 5/11.

As of 5/4 the plane will go IND-MKE-PIT in the morning and PIT-MKE-IND in the afternoon.

Starting 5/11 a second plane will go IND-PIT in the morning and PIT-IND in the afternoon.

Top
 
crazytoaster
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 28):
They're actually starting MKE-PIT first on 5/4, then IND-PIT on 5/11.

As of 5/4 the plane will go IND-MKE-PIT in the morning and PIT-MKE-IND in the afternoon.

Starting 5/11 a second plane will go IND-PIT in the morning and PIT-IND in the afternoon.

I thought that is what they would be doing on the IND-MKE-PIT but the schedules don't mesh... Unless they failed to mention an update on timings for the IND-MKE schedule. Current timetable below.

IND-MKE depart 8:15 AM EST and arrive 8:15 AM CST

MKE-PIT depart 8:00 AM CST and arrive 10:10 AM EST

It is only a 15 minute difference but from all the articles I read OneJet will be using 3 Hawker 400s. Not the best utilization...
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:38 pm

Quoting crazytoaster (Reply 29):
I thought that is what they would be doing on the IND-MKE-PIT but the schedules don't mesh... Unless they failed to mention an update on timings for the IND-MKE schedule. Current timetable below.

IND-MKE depart 8:15 AM EST and arrive 8:15 AM CST

MKE-PIT depart 8:00 AM CST and arrive 10:10 AM EST

It is only a 15 minute difference but from all the articles I read OneJet will be using 3 Hawker 400s. Not the best utilization...

Good point, though I suspect we'll see IND-MKE move. The new IND-PIT and MKE-PIT flights are not out there yet so the new schedule isn't loaded.

A few other reasons I'm thinking this:

--The return schedule leaves PIT at 4:30 and arrives MKE at 5:00, which is a reasonable 25 minute fueling turn to run MKE-IND at 5:25pm. If that PIT-MKE plane was done for the night once it hit MKE the PIT departure would be a little later.

--If MKE-PIT is still operated with plane #1, that explains why it is starting sooner (10 days from now) and the route requiring a new plane doesn't start for 17 more days.

--The articles I've seen references three aircraft, and they could be used one-each for IND-MKE, IND-PIT and MKE-PIT. However they are announcing more expansion on May 7, so at that point they either have to add a 4th aircraft (seems odd for them to say they'll start with 3 aircraft if they are actually going from 1 to 4 in a month's time), or they'll have to start flying more than just 1 morning and 1 afternoon leg. I think it's the latter, and it's starting with IND-MKE-PIT / PIT-MKE-IND.

--The article below references three aircraft on the IND-MKE-PIT-IND triangle flying two cycles per day. My guess is...and this is just my guess...that the May 7 expansion will be running two round trips in each market.

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...line-and-airline-concept-takes-off

We'll know more soon...
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:29 pm

The new schedule is finally starting to appear -- I find it in Expedia but not other sources yet.

The IND-MKE schedule is indeed adjusted to fund the new MKE-PIT flight. Starting May 4:

0740 IND
0740 MKE
0800 MKE
1010 PIT

1630 PIT
1650 MKE
1710 MKE
1910 IND

The IND-PIT flight starts May 11

What I'm hoping / thinking the expansion they announce on 5/8 will be something like this:

Plane one
0740 IND
0740 MKE
0800 MKE
1010 PIT

1630 PIT
1650 MKE
1710 MKE
1910 IND

Plane two
0700 IND
0800 PIT
0820 PIT
0920 IND

1630 IND
1730 PIT
1750 PIT
1850 IND

Plane three
0710 PIT
0730 MKE
0750 MKE
0950 IND

1715 IND
1715 MKE
1735 MKE
1945 PIT

That's just my thoughts, but if they are really starting with three planes and are announcing more expansion next week, it might well be something like this.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:08 pm

How are they marketing this flights? How are they spreading publicity?

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 6):
Where the success or failure of this service is probably hardest to estimate is that it needs to target markets with business travel willing to move from the existing means of travel. You can't simply pick two cities above population X and assume it will work. You can't even necessarily know that company X has operations in cities AAA and BBB because they may run a corporate shuttle of their own or have strict policies on using negotiated-vendor travel contracts. Larger cities probably have a better shot at generating ample high-fare business traffic as an amalgam of various companies rather than just a few, but it's still not a certainty. Ho

Yes, exactly. From existing means of travel, that is the key.
Even with business travel, there are various types and policies in-place. I see this type of operation favoring smaller businesses, start-ups, private firms versus large corporations.

Large corporations have such iron-clad travel policies and negotiated contracts with preffered vendors that it is a hard nut to crack. In addition, this operating model is geared more toward executives and extremely time-sensitive business travelers. Not the low/mid-level manager who is going out to the regional office for the week, or to an industry event.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 31):
That's just my thoughts, but if they are really starting with three planes and are announcing more expansion next week, it might well be something like this.

Your proposal makes optimal sense; with the capacity they are offering, both ends of the routes should have no trouble filling seats.

I hope their marketing plan expands beyond their three current ticket sellers.
 
VS11
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:58 pm

Their pricing seems to be very competitive. I just priced on Expedia a round trip from IND to PIT mid May and the price is $503 for OneJet when AA, DL and UA are around $260 for a 1-stop flight. Definitely seems like a great value service. Good luck to them!
 
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KGRB
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:10 pm

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):
How are they marketing this flights? How are they spreading publicity?

MKE appears to be doing some marketing on behalf of OneJet. While listening to a Brewers game on the radio the other day, I heard an ad for Mitchell Airport that specifically mentioned the new IND service from OneJet. And this ad was on an Appleton station, 1150 WHBY, so it appears to be run across the state-wide network, not just in Milwaukee.
First flight: NW DC-10 MKE-MSP December 1996
Most recent flight: DL/9E CRJ-900 ATL-MSN January 2021
 
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MKE22
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting KGRB (Reply 35):
MKE appears to be doing some marketing on behalf of OneJet. While listening to a Brewers game on the radio the other day, I heard an ad for Mitchell Airport that specifically mentioned the new IND service from OneJet. And this ad was on an Appleton station, 1150 WHBY, so it appears to be run across the state-wide network, not just in Milwaukee.

Yes it is, 620 WTMJ Milwaukee does this to get max Brewer game coverage across the state. OneJet sounds like it's off to a good start, relatively speaking.
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting VS11 (Reply 34):
Their pricing seems to be very competitive. I just priced on Expedia a round trip from IND to PIT mid May and the price is $503 for OneJet when AA, DL and UA are around $260 for a 1-stop flight. Definitely seems like a great value service. Good luck to them!

Where they are most cost-competitive is closer in -- the dates you checked are 2, perhaps 3 weeks out when major airlines typically have advance-purchase fares. For example. here's IND-MKE for same-day travel 4/29 (three days from now):

$416 on United
$422 on American
$459 on Onejet
$634 on Delta

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 32):
Yes, exactly. From existing means of travel, that is the key.
Even with business travel, there are various types and policies in-place. I see this type of operation favoring smaller businesses, start-ups, private firms versus large corporations.

Large corporations have such iron-clad travel policies and negotiated contracts with preffered vendors that it is a hard nut to crack. In addition, this operating model is geared more toward executives and extremely time-sensitive business travelers. Not the low/mid-level manager who is going out to the regional office for the week, or to an industry event.

They definitely face hurdles of corporate contracts and of frequent flyer affinity. Obviously I can only speak of my own experience, but at the Fortune 500 company I worked with we were periodically audited for adherence to use of preferred vendors and for fares within $100 of the lowest logical fare. However flight schedule -- most notably choosing a nonstop to get to a client appointment without having to go the night before and/or getting back he same night was approved. The savings on other expenses removed any question. We used BCD Travel and did need to code why we used something other than the lowest preferred vendor option but that was all we had to do. It wasn't terribly difficult to modify the travel window to get what you wanted anyway on their online system. The bigger hurdle involves people not willing to give up their miles or elite segments. At this point it's definitely helpful they only need a rather small segment of the market.

As for what sort of business traveler may find there way onto these flights, I think there's potential for run of the mill business travelers to use them if they are flying (with a connection) today. Corporate travel policies and frequent flyer affinity will cost them some potential traffic, but people who fly today are paying the sorts of rates OneJet charges. Perhaps a bigger challenge is that many of the potential routes in the eastern US have not had nonstop flights in quite a few years, and in those years business people who formerly traveled have been groomed to drive or get by with conference calls and videoconferencing. A market like IND-BNA is about as long a drive as IND-MKE (though the drive from Indy to Nashville doesn't include the potential for Chicago traffic delays). But the other issue for IND-BNA is that nobody has flown it for about a dozen years or so, and it's a very difficult market to fly with a connection. Thus if you're seeing a client in Nashville it's a "drive" market just as when you see clients in Grand Rapids or Columbus or Lexington. Indianapolis only lost MKE nonstops about 2.5 years ago, and a small stream (about 25/day) still fly it with a ORD connection (primarily). There's still a flow of people flying between the two cities who'd seek out a nonstop, and others who still lament having to drive after flying for years. I believe they'll have a harder time in markets where they have to convince people to leave their cars. They don't need a lot of people, but it's still a potential barrier.

Quoting KGRB (Reply 35):
MKE appears to be doing some marketing on behalf of OneJet. While listening to a Brewers game on the radio the other day, I heard an ad for Mitchell Airport that specifically mentioned the new IND service from OneJet. And this ad was on an Appleton station, 1150 WHBY, so it appears to be run across the state-wide network, not just in Milwaukee.

Out of curiosity did they mention other expansion at MKE (Southwest to DAL and SAN, Delta to BOS, Alaska to SEA) in addition to OneJet? I would be surprised to hear them specifically advertise OneJet only, but I could see OneJet mentioned in the context of growth at Mitchell.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:50 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 37):
Thus if you're seeing a client in Nashville it's a "drive" market just as when you see clients in Grand Rapids or Columbus or Lexington. Indianapolis only lost MKE nonstops about 2.5 years ago, and a small stream (about 25/day) still fly it with a ORD connection (primarily). There's still a flow of people flying between the two cities who'd seek out a nonstop, and others who still lament having to drive after flying for years.

I don't know how much difference it makes, to be honest. Most folks I know fly BNA-CVG and BNA-STL when they can, which are about the same distance as BNA-IND. I think people who knew about a route like BNA-IND and could move over to flying (in terms of what their corporate travel policy permits) would fly. The lack of service actually helps some with people who are loyal to some carrier; that loyalty hasn't gotten them to IND in the past, so it wouldn't keep them from trying someone new.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 38):
The lack of service actually helps some with people who are loyal to some carrier;

Personally, I find the airlines 'loyalty plans' less and less compelling as they reduce the frequent flyer benefits more and more. I think the advantage offered by OneJet (small plane = no lines, non stop flight saving a couple of hours) far more valuable than reward miles.
 
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KGRB
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 37):
Out of curiosity did they mention other expansion at MKE (Southwest to DAL and SAN, Delta to BOS, Alaska to SEA) in addition to OneJet? I would be surprised to hear them specifically advertise OneJet only, but I could see OneJet mentioned in the context of growth at Mitchell.

The ad went along the lines of something like this: "Did you know that you can fly to (X number of) Major League cities non-stop from Mitchell? Seattle? Yes. Boston? Yes. Minneapolis? Yes." and then mentioned a quick blurb about new OneJet service to IND. Maybe OneJet gets a special mention because it's a new carrier?

I'd listen for more ads and see if there are any that specifically mention WN or DL's new service, but unfortunately, Brewers baseball hasn't been too listenable lately.  
First flight: NW DC-10 MKE-MSP December 1996
Most recent flight: DL/9E CRJ-900 ATL-MSN January 2021
 
masseybrown
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Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:40 pm

RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 7:08 pm

"OneJet plans to make additional service announcements as soon as May 7th. " - according to crazytoaster's citation above. Nothing heard so far.

Anybody know how they're doing with IND/MKE/PIT?
 
crazytoaster
Topic Author
Posts: 301
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 41):

"OneJet plans to make additional service announcements as soon as May 7th. " - according to crazytoaster's citation above. Nothing heard so far.

Anybody know how they're doing with IND/MKE/PIT?

I have been checking today and I haven't found anything regarding new flights.

No idea on the loads for the flights so far but a couple blogs have posted some reviews and they enjoyed the flights. Also stated that they are blocking some seats on the initial flights so they are not full yet.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
flyaas80
Posts: 110
Joined: Thu Sep 14, 2006 4:47 am

RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 7:31 pm

Any idea which gate they are using at MKE? Would love to see some of the old Midwest Express gates on the lower level get some use!
The only way to fly is by the seat of your pants...
 
COSPN
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 8:22 pm

IND-PIT will start Monday May 11. MKE to IND and PIT are operating already
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 9:55 pm

At MKE they are using ground-level D27, part of the former Midwest Connect area.

As for the next route I'm thinking IND CLE but others think Memphis might be next.
 
mtnwest1979
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Thu May 07, 2015 10:34 pm

As an aside, I think their website sucks.
Pretend you are a novice looking at their service for the first time. Where do they fly? Only inkling is they say now service Pittsburgh.
IDK if it is in their news section, but it should be a lot more plain as to where they go.
Perhaps it is just me, but seems very unfriendly to to uninformed lol.
Even Sufair in Cali shows a route map.....
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
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knope2001
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri May 08, 2015 1:18 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 46):
As an aside, I think their website sucks. Pretend you are a novice looking at their service for the first time. Where do they fly? Only inkling is they say now service Pittsburgh. IDK if it is in their news section, but it should be a lot more plain as to where they go. Perhaps it is just me, but seems very unfriendly to to uninformed lol.Even Sufair in Cali shows a route map.....

Agreed completely -- the website was fine for their initial ramp-up and launch but now that they have been flying several weeks, have multiple routes and are getting publicity they need to ratchet it up a bit. I get that online ticket selling could be off the table right now, but it would be very easy to show where they fly and when. This is a critical time when people are starting to run into OneJet and want to check them out before considering them. They're going to great lengths to try to be a "real" airline in other aspects, and to not have a better website at this point can handicap them.

Hopefully they are close to upgrading the website -- -at very least state their three markets!
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri May 08, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 46):
As an aside, I think their website sucks.

I agree; but, since they don't sell tickets on the website, it's almost irrelevant anyway. I'm guessing they are marketing directly to corporate travel departments.
 
masseybrown
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RE: OneJet Possible Routes, IND To PIT?

Fri May 08, 2015 2:18 pm

A source (which for reasons unknown a.net won't let me post) says that OneJet will add one jet a month to its fleet beginning in June. No ultimate number was stated.

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