Asiana OZ162 Runway Excursion At Hiroshima

aviatorcraig · Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:27 pm

Asiana OZ160, A32x off runway at Hiroshima.

Looks like an excursion into the mud. Runway currently closed and inbounds are diverting.

KarelXWB · Tue Apr 14, 2015 12:32 pm

More photos to follow.

http://twitter.com/airlivenet/status/587956161191751680

EBGflyer · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:22 pm

Supposedly the registration of the A320-232 is HL7762.

Flightradar24 says it 'landed' 8.05pm.

[Edited 2015-04-14 06:23:15]

Joshu · Tue Apr 14, 2015 1:54 pm

Apparently the airport is closed after a "hard landing" but it seems like a runway excursion. 20 people reported injured in early reports from NHK news.

[Edited 2015-04-14 06:56:33]

hiflyeras · Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:14 pm

Did it sink into the mud or was the landing gear ever down? It's practically sitting on it's belly. There was a mention that there were sparks on the runway when they touched down.

TheSonntag · Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:54 pm

This turns out to be quite a bad year for the A320, no matter whether the plane is to blame or (most likely) not.

EPA001 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 6):
This turns out to be quite a bad year for the A320, no matter whether the plane is to blame or (most likely) not.

Well, that just happens in aviation. The chances that B737's or A320's are involved in incidents or catastrophes is statistically quite high. And yet last year the B777 was at the center of attention, even from one single airline, where also the airplane was not at fault.

Luckily here there seem to be no seriously injured passengers. Are were able to leave the aircraft using the slides, according to a news report on CNN.

ba319-131 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:00 pm

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 5):
Did it sink into the mud or was the landing gear ever down? It's practically sitting on it's belly

- Look's like it's lost the gear to me.

TheSonntag · Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 7):

Well, that just happens in aviation.

Yes, its just bad luck. What surprises me, however, is the number of A320s involved in accidents, while A319s and A321s so far have encountered far fewer accidents, even in recent years, where the number of A319s and A321s has grown considerably.

So far, in just 5 months, we had

1. Air Asia (last year)
2. Germanwings
3. Air Canada
4. Asiana.

[Edited 2015-04-14 08:15:44]

diverted · Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 9):
Yes, its just bad luck. What surprises me, however, is the number of A320s involved in accidents, while A319s and A321s so far have encountered far fewer accidents, even in recent years, where the number of A319s and A321s has grown considerably.

Per Wikipedia (so it's likely the numbers are a little off)

To date produced there have been:

3913 A320s
1440 A319s
1062 A321s
79 A318s

So statistically speaking, the 320 will have more incidents than other variants. Does it explain the 320 incidents the last few months? No, but Germanwings wasn't the fault of the aircraft, and we still don't know the reason for behind the runway excursions that AC and OZ had

Richard28 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:53 pm

According to this link the plane spun 180 degrees on landing and also notes no sign of landing gear.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...grees-runway-Japanese-airport.html

perhaps a gear up landing?

notaxonrotax · Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:39 pm

Hope it's not another pilot error from Asiana.
That would look really bad.....in light of the SFO oops!

No Tax On Rotax

martinair50 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 11):

Hope it's not another pilot error from Asiana.
That would look really bad.....in light of the SFO oops!

Well the incident looks significantly similar to the SFO accident. Plane touched down short of runway: http://avherald.com/h?article=484c306e&opt=0

Whiteguy · Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting martinair50 (Reply 12):

Quoting notaxonrotax (Reply 11):

Hope it's not another pilot error from Asiana.
That would look really bad.....in light of the SFO oops!

Well the incident looks significantly similar to the SFO accident. Plane touched down short of runway: http://avherald.com/h?article=484c306e&opt=0

Even more similar to the AC incident in YHZ.....

macc · Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:15 pm

Thats quite a distance from the Point of first impact according to avherald pic.
Must have either became airborne again or it must have been more than wet ground.
Cant read the metars, do they indicate rain? minimas?

smolt · Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:33 pm

March and April are likely season in which this kind of thing happen here in japan.
Be reminded what was it like with fedex 80 disaster back to 2009.
It has been winter then summer comes. Summer pushes winter out. But winter does not
be so easily defeated and pushes summer out. Then again. During this fight air gets very
instaple, which inclines to let genetic constitution unique in airline company present in your eyes.

hoons90 · Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:33 pm

Asiana is starting to remind me of Korean Air in the 90's... Hope they can get their act together.

chrisair · Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting smolt (Reply 16):
It has been winter then summer comes. Summer pushes winter out. But winter does not
be so easily defeated and pushes summer out. Then again. During this fight air gets very
instaple, which inclines to let genetic constitution unique in airline company present in your eyes.

Huh?

Okie · Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:39 pm

Quoting whiteguy (Reply 13):
Even more similar to the AC incident in YHZ.....

I would say so.

CFIT a 1,000ft before the runway sounds pretty much the same.

Short of some emergency situation, the appearance is flight below minima looking for a runway.

Okie

YVRFlyer · Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting chrisair (Reply 18):

Quoting smolt (Reply 16):
It has been winter then summer comes. Summer pushes winter out. But winter does not
be so easily defeated and pushes summer out. Then again. During this fight air gets very
instaple, which inclines to let genetic constitution unique in airline company present in your eyes.

Huh?

Speaking as a poet myself, smolt's comment is incredibly lyrical and profound, reading like 'The Tale of Genji'. But put into plain english, he's talking about the violent weather changes that occur in Japan during the springtime. And in these challenging conditions, the unique cultural characteristics of the pilots will show themselves.

I wonder if this is another case of "Confucius in the Cockpit", like what has been suspected with OZ 214, and KE up to the 2000s. Korea, unlike Japan and China, never experienced a modernizing revolution to expunge Confucianism from their culture. In the future OZ and KE could look at replacing their pilots with americans and europeans, to gain a more safe image.

prebennorholm · Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:30 am

Repeating from the AC624 thread two weeks ago....

Is this a(nother) proof that the A320 fuselage barrel is a pretty strong structure?

There are no good pictues yet, but this OZ162 made a 180 degrees turn on its belly in the mud, before coming to rest. Still it seems that the pressurized cabin part of the fuselage is mostly in one piece.

Which is absolutely better for the passengers than when the fuselage breaks in multiple parts.

mats01776 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:54 am

Nikkei reports that OZ162 did not use the CATIII-equipped RWY10, but used the non-precision approach
to RWY28 instead, due to the prevailing wind, and went below the minimum altitude.

Some day light images:
http://www.asahi.com/articles/photo/AS20150415000648.html

[Edited 2015-04-14 18:59:13]

Okie · Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:30 am

Quoting Mats01776 (Reply 22):
Nikkei reports that OZ162 did not use the CATIII-equipped RWY10, but used the non-precision approach
to RWY28 instead, due to the prevailing wind, and went below the minimum altitude.

Pretty much the same scenario as YHZ.

Without knowing why they went below minima. Lets hope that TSB Canada or Airbus is not sitting on something systematic warranting a bulletin from the YHZ accident that could have prevented this accident.

Okie

[Edited 2015-04-14 19:34:42]

aca36 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:54 am

I lived in Hiroshima for 6 years and used that airport regularly (around 8 times a year) and I know that RWY28 is a VOR DME approach. Judging from NHK news reports, one of the engines hit "a structure" around 300m from the runway, and was destroyed, while the plane had asymmetric thrust. Though the plane came in way too low, the pilots recovered it and landed hard.

Obviously pilot error to blame mainly since the aircraft was flying way too low. I have simulated this airport on asimulator and realized the VOR DME 28 approach is extremely misleading as the mountains around the area appear to be much lower (I'd estimate at around 800 ft) and the airport is of a much higher elevation of 1067 ft. Therefore, in night conditions, without being extremely cautious, a pilot may be too low on the approach. ILS CATIII 10 is even more misleading thus the CATIII was installed on that side of the runway. However, there is no excuse the pilots descended under the MDA of 1420-1500 ft (varied for weight types).

Let's hope the accident clears up soon and the airport is reopened. I've heard reports that MU293 from Shanghai diverted to Osaka Kansai.

[Edited 2015-04-14 19:59:30]

smolt · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:46 am

The aircraft destroyed 14 out of 28 ILS antennas so it will take longer before the airport
resumes as usual.

This accident has proved to be much more than just what you say runway excurtion,
which can be compared to series of fatal landing failure accidents with tens of victims in the past.

YVRflyer, thank you for great help.

aca36 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:53 am

Quoting smolt (Reply 25):

The aircraft destroyed 14 out of 28 ILS antennas so it will take longer before the airport
resumes as usual.

Sigh... Hiroshima, the city of peace. I heard that Hiroshima Airport just started making profits in the past few years, I guess we'll be looking at huge losses for this year.

Quoting smolt (Reply 25):
This accident has proved to be much more than just what you say runway excurtion,
which can be compared to series of fatal landing failure accidents with tens of victims in the past.

Exactly! I'd say this is nothing compared to even AC624. AC624 just landed hard, this plane hit something before landing and veered off the runway!

AirKorea · Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:02 am

Shame on OZ.
A series of accidents over the last year makes OZ unreliable.

smolt · Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:02 am

http://news.yahoo.co.jp/pickup/6156628

Here is another picture taken from overhead.
Note that half of the left horizontal stabilizer is lost.

Okie · Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:18 am

Quoting smolt (Reply 25):
The aircraft destroyed 14 out of 28 ILS antennas so it will take longer before the airport
resumes as usual.

Thanks for the update smolt

I dropped down to street view on Google and toured around the airport to see if I could get a better perception of the terrain.
The street view did not go on the minor roads for the approach end where the ILS antennas are located however.
I did go through one of the two tunnels under the runway, interesting layout.

Beautiful area I might add.

Okie

Aaron747 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:47 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 29):
I dropped down to street view on Google and toured around the airport to see if I could get a better perception of the terrain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7o_PI5kiBs

The above link is a video of the approach to runway 28 from pax perspective. In the last 3 or so minutes, you can get a very good impression of the airport environment. Because the airport is situated on a plateau, the ILS infrastructure and approach lights are built into the slope you see in the video moments before touchdown.

Okie · Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 31):

The above link is a video of the approach to runway 28 from pax perspective

That looks like a landing on the 10 with the terminal to the left of the aircraft.

Okie

thekorean · Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 17):

Not even close.

747WanSui · Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:00 am

This incident reminds me of Korean Air Flight 8702 in 1998, where a 744 skidded off the runway after landing in bad weather. That aircraft (which had been delivered just two years before) was so badly damaged that it was deemed permanently unairworthy, making it the second 744 hull loss ever (up to that point). I wonder if this aircraft will suffer the same fate as that one...

[Edited 2015-04-15 00:02:02]

KarelXWB · Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 10):
According to this link the plane spun 180 degrees on landing and also notes no sign of landing gear.

=>

http://twitter.com/flightradar24/status/588217217713631234

SXI899 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:27 am

I've seen another shot (in the link below) where an intact nose gear can be seen, and although its not visible, the damage to the cowling of Engine 1, plus the ground tracks suggest that the left-hand main gear may have failed after the aircraft left the runway.

http://www.news.com.au/travel/travel...japan/story-fnizu68q-1227304793976

For the What, I've got some theories about the sequence of events from the initial impact, but I'd need more info before I'm willing to share.
The Why, I'll leave that to the JTSB.

EBGflyer · Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:38 am

Also pics here of the damage to localizer antenna:
http://ekstrabladet.dk/112/her-skrider-fly-ud-20-kvaestet/5522663

qf789 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:40 am

Damage Sustained to ILS antennas

SKAirbus · Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:07 am

The aircraft looks surprisingly in tact. Engine damage could be from impacting the lights? Superficially it looks like it could be repaired but obviously there may be a lot of internal or out of view damage.

Eeek.

moo · Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:59 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 35):

Ouch, if that aircraft had had a little bit more energy to expend, the outcome could have been much worse by the looks of that drop off to the right of that picture :/

ltbewr · Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:30 am

First of all, could we all here not use racist plays on Asian names for the pilots. It is offensive and unnecessary.

I believe several factors are involved with this and similar incidents: Flaws in computerized auto-land systems. Incorrect information input into the aircraft's computer. Weak piloting skills in part due to overreliance on computer flight systems. Poor CRM perhaps due to culture of the pilots and/or the airline. Pilot training flaws. Lack of experience of landing at this airport. Weather, visibility or topographical features not correctly compensated for. Not wanting to do a 'go around' with delays so forced a landing. Overcorrection in their approach.

Fortunately, no one died, only a few serious injuries occurred. There will be no problem recovering the CVR and FDR's so we can get impartial data to properly conduct an investigation. I do hope if some flaw exists in areas I previously noted, that they can be promptly corrected to prevent a deadly crash in the future.

hoons90 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 30):
I thought Korean airlines had got over their period of frequent accidents

KE certainly has, along with other "Korean airlines". OZ, however, is a different story. Why are you trying to lump everyone together in the same boat?

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 44):
First of all, could we all here not use racist plays on Asian names for the pilots. It is offensive and unnecessary.

There's a shocking amount of racism here masquerading as "humor". Of course, if you call someone out for it, it becomes apparent that being called a racist is worse than being one.

mats01776 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:32 pm

Bird's eye view video of the accident site:

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/videone...s/fnn?a=20150415-00000388-fnn-soci

Helicopter's view of RWY28 approach begins at 00:13.

PHX787 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:05 pm

Quoting martinair50 (Reply 12):
Well the incident looks significantly similar to the SFO accident. Plane touched down short of runway: http://avherald.com/h?article=484c306e&opt=0

Even how the airframe ended up reminds me of SFO.

Quoting hoons90 (Reply 45):
Quoting peterinlisbon (Reply 30):
I thought Korean airlines had got over their period of frequent accidents

KE certainly has, along with other "Korean airlines". OZ, however, is a different story. Why are you trying to lump everyone together in the same boat?

it seems the training of the staff with the airlines in Korea is lacking. Big time. The families going nuts on KE and the pilots being completely incompetent or too "sempai-worshipping" (a term I use here in Japan) to notice any errors by the captain. Time for Korea to step it up a bit.

9w748capt · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:12 pm

And to think how much bad press MH got and what a hit they took in terms of public perception - IMO as an untrained observer, at this moment I'd feel much safer flying MH rather than OZ. Of course the jury is still out on this one but this type of landing is executed perfectly by thousands of crews around the world, everyday.

thekorean · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 48):

But western airline pilots also occasionally fail at this.

Saying Malaysian is safer seems like going overboard.

moo · Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:33 pm

I like how a lot of people are jumping to conclusions - while similar to the SFO and AC incidents, its also visually similar to the BA 777 incident at Heathrow. And we all know the result of that investigation...

speedbird707 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:13 pm

So...A conspiracy theory question from the uneducated...

Is it possible for parties nepharious, to access the aircraft computer systems to mess up the approaches, i.e. flying too low, but not knowing you were too low because the glass cockpit tells the pilot that you are good to go??

I don't kow if this is a stupid question, and if it is my apologies.

konrad · Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:11 pm

How about a wrong (too low) altimeter setting. Wouldn't that be a possible cause?

Quoting moo (Reply 43):
Ouch, if that aircraft had had a little bit more energy to expend, the outcome could have been much worse by the looks of that drop off to the right of that picture :/

Even worse outsome if they'd come another 50 ft lower: a head-on crash into the face of the hill in front of the airport perimeter.

aca36 · Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:16 pm

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 44):
I believe several factors are involved with this and similar incidents: Flaws in computerized auto-land systems. Incorrect information input into the aircraft's computer. Weak piloting skills in part due to overreliance on computer flight systems. Poor CRM perhaps due to culture of the pilots and/or the airline. Pilot training flaws. Lack of experience of landing at this airport. Weather, visibility or topographical features not correctly compensated for. Not wanting to do a 'go around' with delays so forced a landing. Overcorrection in their approach.

It's a non-precision VOR DME approach with MDA @ 1500. Pilots go visual on this so nothing to do with auto-land systems.

SocalApproach · Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 40):
So? We don't know the cause. And the AC 320 took also half the approach lights with it,

But AC didn't have a crash within the last 2 years that had people up front that clearly showed a lack of airmanship. I really don't see the point in these threads if people are not allowed to speculate. Lets just make a thread 250+ post long saying we do not know what happened then. All I am saying is after investigation of flight 214, these OZ pilots in my mind are already guilty until proven innocent and it will take an investigation to change my mind otherwise because from the looks of the photos it already looks similar to SFO when you consider the state this A320 is in right now. I am just sitting here expecting to hear that these pilots flew a perfectly good airplane into the ground. There is nothing wrong with that. Furthermore OZ is quickly becoming an airline I will personally avoid which is a shame because before OZ214 I heard nothing but great things about them.

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