JoeCanuck
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Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:05 pm

I thought this was interesting. Companies are really trying to squeeze every last mile out of their 757/767's. Aviation Partners is going to adapt Scimitar Winglets to the aircraft.

I guess they are looking down the road for oil prices to go up, are looking for some more range, or both.


http://leehamnews.com/2015/04/14/avi...-next-step-a-scimitar-for-757-767/

Some of the details are hidden behind a subscription wall, but the free stuff gives you some info.
What the...?
 
UA735WL
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:17 pm

Anything that keeps the 757s around longer! I guess if this comes to fruition we'll see if this leads to slower retirement for the 75. I'll bet UA orders them for their TATL birds, at the least.


Jonas
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747400sp
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:18 pm

It would not be a bad ideal for Fed Ex or may be UPS, to look into Scimitar Winglets for their 757/767.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:20 pm

Seems like they're counting on one of two things: 1) demand for the A320neo series being so high that it takes airlines years to get A321neo frames, or 2) airlines waiting for Boeing to introduce a NSA or MOM 757 replacement.

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):
It would not be a bad ideal for Fed Ex or may be UPS, to look into Scimitar Winglets for their 757/767.

UPS and FedEx use their aircraft for such short flights, and so little time, that I doubt the cost would pencil out. I was just looking at UPS 757 hours/cycles and their birds have around 25,000-30,000 hours on around 18,000-20,000 cycles.

[Edited 2015-04-14 12:21:32]
 
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res77W
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:23 pm

Please God, no! The 757 is the most gorgeous airplane flying right now. The pristine look would be ruined by the splits.
 
AT
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:26 pm

How much do the winglets cost, by the way (including the cost of installation, etc)?
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting AT (Reply 5):

According to Aviation Partners, the uninstalled price for the scimitar addon for the 737 is $575 thousand dollars...and remember, that's on top of the million bucks for the regular blended winglet upgrade.
What the...?
 
kaitak744
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 2):

It would not be a bad ideal for Fed Ex or may be UPS, to look into Scimitar Winglets for their 757/767.

Fed Ex does not want 757s with winglets because they cannot fit in the hardstands at Memphis.
 
VC10er
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 8:09 pm

I too love the 757 for it's crisp lines. Same for the 777. Crisp straight, razor sharp lines define a Boeing. But, that said, I loved the blended tall winglets for both the 757 and 767 when I first saw them. The spilt scimitar makes the very old lines (and nose) of the 737look much better. I'd love to have seen a rendering of them on the 757 and 767-300.

Are there any cad images?
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Max Q
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting res77W (Reply 4):
The 757 is the most gorgeous airplane flying right now. The pristine look would be ruined by the splits.

Agree, they are very ugly.
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Ty134A
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 10:21 pm

Quoting VC10er (Reply 8):
I too love the 757 for it's crisp lines. Same for the 777. Crisp straight, razor sharp lines define a Boeing.

I always thought of the B757 to be one of the nicest planes around, but I always felt that the rear was too fat. And right I was, the rear fuselage has the diameter of a B707, the forward one of a B737, making it's behind look fat. And that spoiled the B757 for me. Don't believe? -> Check for yourself. If you see it once, you won't get it off your eyes again and the B757 is plane ugly....
flown on: TU3,TU5,T20,IL8,IL6,ILW,IL9,I14,YK4,YK2,AN2,AN4,A26,A28,A38,A40,A81,SU9,L4T,L11,D1C,M11,M80,M87,
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crimsonchin
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Tue Apr 14, 2015 11:21 pm

The 767 is like the most boring airplane ever, so maybe this will help its looks. The 757 has always been ugly, so maybe this will make it a stand-out ugly now
 
bgm
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
The 757 has always been ugly

Stand back, a.net is about to explode.  
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):

The 767 is like the most boring airplane ever, so maybe this will help its looks. The 757 has always been ugly, so maybe this will make it a stand-out ugly now

If you could ever get banned from A.net, this post would do it...
 
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:41 am

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
The 767 is like the most boring airplane ever
Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
The 757 has always been ugly,
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:44 am

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
The 757 has always been ugly, so maybe this will make it a stand-out ugly now

...them be fightin words!
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:11 am

Quoting bgm (Reply 12):
Stand back, a.net is about to explode

This could break the A.net.
What the...?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:17 am

Quoting bgm (Reply 12):
Stand back, a.net is about to explode.

I've been on this site over 15 years.

I think the 757 is ugly. The winglets help it a lot.

There, I said it.

Boeing generally makes prettier planes than Airbus, but they really whiffed on the 757. The 732 was no prize, either.

Anyway, back on topic: there are two scimitars. There is the regular scimitar addition, which just extends the winglet aft a bit. Then there is the split scimitar, which does that and adds an additional downward wing-like element. The downward wing-like element does not increase wingspan on the ground, but in flight the wing flexes upward, aeroelastically rotating the wingtip outward, and then the downward wing-like element becomes a wingspan extension.
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jetwet1
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:24 am

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
The 757 has always been ugly, so maybe this will make it a stand-out ugly now

Got sit in the corner young man, think about what you said, when you are ready to say sorry we will be here.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
I think the 757 is ugly.

You as well, noooooooooo

I love the the 757, the 767 could certainly use something, scimitars may help it.
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:31 am

I like the aircraft designs on the extremes, rather than the middle. I like the 732...it looks like a waddling duck...in a good way. I prefer the 753 over the 752, the A346 over any other in the family, the 762 over the 763, (because it has similar proportions as the 732...at least to me), the 747SP and the 748, basically, the too long and too short ones.

The zone in the middle is kind of ...meh...
What the...?
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:43 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
Boeing generally makes prettier planes than Airbus, but they really whiffed on the 757. The 732 was no prize, either.

I agree with you on the 732, but pertaining to the 757... WHAT HAVE YOU BEEN SNIFFING?
 
warden145
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:45 am

Quoting Ty134A (Reply 10):
I always thought of the B757 to be one of the nicest planes around, but I always felt that the rear was too fat. And right I was, the rear fuselage has the diameter of a B707, the forward one of a B737, making it's behind look fat.

I thought the 707, 727, 737, and 757 shared the same basic fuselage cross-section?
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seabosdca
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:01 am

Quoting warden145 (Reply 21):
I thought the 707, 727, 737, and 757 shared the same basic fuselage cross-section?

They all have the same upper lobe but the 707 lower lobe (which is shared with the back half of the 757) is deeper than the 727/737 lower lobe (which is shared with the front half of the 757).

Personally I think the 757 is the best looking of that entire lot. It has the nicest wing, the only good nose, and those big donks help too.
 
Max Q
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:40 am

I always liked the 732, looks in proportion, purposeful and rugged, especially liked it with the polished nacelles.


The 707 looked great.


The 727, especially the -200 was simply the best looking narrowbody ever made.


The 747 Classic is the best looking widebody ever made, go back and look at some of the Cathay , ANZ , Thai and SQ -200's, just beautiful.


Despite it being my office since 1997 I don't think the 757 is that 'stunning', good looking, yes but not as much as some people say.


The 767's are kind of boring with a notable exception, I think the -400 looks great, with the taller gear and longer fuselage it's a very handsome jet and a delight to fly.


The triple 7 doesn't look that great to me, just a big long boring tube and the 787 just looks wrong, sits too close to the ground and the nose is weird.


But the ugliest Boeing's were the 300 / 400 and 500, they looked all wrong and sucked to ride on, very bumpy ride and very slow.



The A320 looks very nice, other than that I don't like the look of any of the Airbus products and the A380 is very ugly.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


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JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:45 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
The 727, especially the -200 was simply the best looking narrowbody ever made.

Amen, brother....Amen.
What the...?
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
The 727, especially the -200 was simply the best looking narrowbody ever made.

True dat. Looked like it was going fast when it wasn't moving.

I have to say, the winglets helped the A320 and 757 both a lot. Split scimitars will only help more.
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N1120A
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:18 am

It would be awesome to see scimitars on these planes. I wonder if the United Continental management is kicking themselves now?
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warden145
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 7:45 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
They all have the same upper lobe but the 707 lower lobe (which is shared with the back half of the 757) is deeper than the 727/737 lower lobe (which is shared with the front half of the 757).

Oh, okay...you learn something new every day. Thanks!

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 22):
Personally I think the 757 is the best looking of that entire lot. It has the nicest wing, the only good nose, and those big donks help too.

The 757 has a regal look to her, especially with the high stance, but I strongly contend that the 707 is the best looking subsonic narrow-body jet ever built    I just wish I could get an opportunity to fly on one...or better yet, get some stick time  Call me crazy, but I even love the nose that the 707, 727, and 737 share...I always thought it has a classic yet timeless look to it. Fortunately, the nose lives on in the 737 even though it's too low to the ground.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
The 727, especially the -200 was simply the best looking narrowbody ever made.

See above, although IMHO the 727 takes a solid second place to the 707   
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DeltaXNA
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:01 am

The 747, 757, 777, 727, and 787 are the best looking Boeing planes in my opinion. I describe the 787 as a sporty looking 767 lol.

The split winglets would hurt the looks of the 757/767, but it could help them stick around longer.

[Edited 2015-04-15 01:03:41]
 
coolian2
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 8:23 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
I think the 757 is ugly. The winglets help it a lot.

The winglets do make it look less like a rat.
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crimsonchin
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:10 am

   Welp, well at least the lashings weren't nearly as bad as I was expecting   

I generally hate blunt noses on planes (757, A320, A380), so that's really where my problem with the 757 comes from, like someone said above, it looks like a rat. The long legs are nice, but that's about, I can never get over that nose. I much more prefer the noses like on the 777, A330.
 
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par13del
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 10:22 am

So the general a.net understanding of the adjustments / amendments is cosmetic?
 
JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 11:54 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 31):

Nope... but once you know what their advantage is, (the data), you may as well talk about the looks.
What the...?
 
777X
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:19 pm

Does anyone have a mock-up of what the 75 and 76 would look like with the split scimitars?
 
neutronstar73
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting CrimsonChin (Reply 11):
he 767 is like the most boring airplane ever, so maybe this will help its looks. The 757 has always been ugly, so maybe this will make it a stand-out ugly now

So it is you I should sent my request for compensation because you are the cause of the internet being down due to the storm of comments you are going to generate?
 

I like the 757 and 767, personally. I think I'm in the minority when I say I like the 737-700 and the A319 over their bigger siblings (738 and A320).

Too bad both the 737-700 and the A319 may fall out of favor in due course. Oh well......bring up the C-series!!!
 
georgiaame
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 1:37 pm

Quoting res77W (Reply 4):
The 757 is the most gorgeous airplane flying right now.

I respectfully disagree. The 747 is the most gorgeous plane flying. The B-707, now essentially defunct, WAS the most gorgeous plane flying, and probably still is. the A-340 is a darn close 2nd/3rd, it's lines being very 707ish. As for the 757, sort of the Barbra Streisand of the air. Pretty face, if it weren't for that nose. But what a nose! Still my favorite when flying up front, hate the machine flying in the back. Now back to the subject, the scimitars are kind of neat! I think they look a hell of a lot better than the flat out winglets. Very 21st Century, IMHO. And if Delta or the others can wring out some extra miles/bucks from these paid for aircraft, all the more power to them.
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INFINITI329
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 2:18 pm

How much wing modification would be needed? Or will wingleted airplanes be able to accept scimitars no problem?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:36 pm

1. B744
2. A332/A333
3. L1011
4. DC10/MD11
...

all the other heavies are ugly.

The A310 is too fat. The 757 looks like someone with an eating disorder. The 777/767/737/A320 are boring. The A342/A343's engines are too small. The A346 has big engines, but the plane is too long. The A345 is not too bad. And let's not even get started with the 787 or A380 !

'nuff said !

[Edited 2015-04-15 08:41:14]
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VC10er
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:01 pm

I saw the Mona Lisa in person, twice, I think it's an ugly painting, I don't know what the fuss is all about. I think there are much more appealing works of art.

Isn't this thread about extending the life of some very successful aircraft that are winding down in life, by adding a split scimitar winglet?
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:51 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 36):

I believe it is an addon to blended winglets, and the modifications are to the winglet, not the wing.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 38):

Like any other tool, aircraft can be judged on many criteria, utility and attractiveness are two. While the utility is objectively based on cost/benefit ratios, attractiveness is completely subjective...and they depend on ones priorities.

Airlines will tend to judge based on cost/benefits and not looks. Anyone who does not have to deal with the bills, is probably more likely to judge based on aesthetics.

While I think the scimitars are very interesting looking, for pure aesthetics, I prefer the blended winglets.

PS...I agree with the assessment of the Mona Lisa. I have seen it in person and it left me completely underwhelmed.

[Edited 2015-04-15 11:55:40]
What the...?
 
toga989
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:54 pm

I mean....what is objective beauty if not this??   

Without winglets, the 757 looks sleek and powerful

View Large View Medium
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Photo © Mark McEwan
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Photo © Ben Wang



And the winglets add an element of class

View Large View Medium
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Photo © EDDL Photography
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Photo © Baldur Sveinsson



That said, while I think that winglets/sharklets enhance the look of most aircraft (particularly 757, 767 and A320 fam), I'm not sure how the lower portion of the split-scimitar will jive with the 75's lines. Clearly, it's ultimately about the $$$, so no complaints if it keeps them flying for a few more years! I can see Delta adding split-scimitars to the ex-TW/AA transcon/int'l subfleet.

TG
 
toga989
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RE: Scimitars For 757/767

Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 39):
While I think the scimitars are very interesting looking, for pure aesthetics, I prefer the blended winglets.

Couldn't agree more.

TG

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