SAA201
Topic Author
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BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:45 am

The British Airways B747-436 that was damaged in an incident whilst taxying at Johannesburg OR Tambo airport a few years back has finally been scrapped.

Pictures of the aircraft just after hitting the building, and the scrapping process can be found here:
http://www.avcom.co.za/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=151676
 
rta
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:01 am

Its always a bit difficult to see pics of planes being scrapped. Even more so for a BA 747.
RIP
 
29erUSA187
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting rta (Reply 1):
Even more so for a BA 747.
RIP

Amen, It was so sad to see it go from the queen of the skies to a heap of metal on the ground, and I just saw the pictures. A pity it couldn't be saved.
 
KELPkid
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:17 am

Thought they started scrapping it a few months back?   
Celebrating the birth of KELPkidJR on August 5, 2009 :-)
 
UKtoOzFlyer
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:18 am

As much as we would all prefer to see these Queens of the Sky fly forever, from an engineering perspective, its amazing to see how these once gracious ladies are turned so quickly into a few piles of scrap.

Yesterdays 747, today's baked bean tin!

I see avcon is reporting that many parts are already living on within the BA fleet.
 
TC957
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:18 am

Those pics must hurt the eyes of those in engineering at LHR & CWL who lovingly worked on her over the years.
What became of the flight crew - any reprecussions for their error ?
 
by738
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:48 am

wonder why they dont take absolutely everything before crushing it, ie wingtip, doors, wing panels etc- all things that potentially cant get damaged in service
 
machnus
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:44 am

I guess availability of used spare parts for 744s is quite good taken the number of retired planes out there. G-BNLL was nearly 25 years so not exactly the go-to source for parts imho.
 
cedarjet
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:07 am

I don't think there were any repercussions for the crew. Personally I think the megabucks salary and status should come with responsibility but in this case the union got them off the hook. Yes it's a confusing taxiway and there are other pre departure pressures but BA aren't paying each pilot £120,000+ to fly to and from easy airfields in daylight. No doubt the next 60 replies will debate this point. Personally if I wrote off a multi-million dollar aircraft because I wasn't watching the road I would hand in my notice the very next day, then again I'm not paying a two million quid mortgage, alimony to an ex wife or two, horse riding lessons for daughter, film studies degree for son, part ownership of sports plane etc etc.

[Edited 2015-04-18 04:31:58]
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
bennett123
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:07 am

Imagine shipping costs from JNB were a factor.
 
by738
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:37 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
BA aren't paying each pilot £120,000+

Yeah, your're right, they are not. Some yes, but it is not the average figure.
 
bluesky73
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 1:51 pm

What a sad end to G-BNLL  

Think she hadn't been long out of the paint shop too, one of the shinier cleaner of the BA 744s back at the end of 2013.

If I was one of the pilots I would not want to see these photos. Must be so embarrassing, but hey we all make mistakes, no one badly hurt or worse, Just dented pride and vey much dented and written off multi million pound Jumbo.


   G-BNLL
 
rtfm
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
I don't think there were any repercussions for the crew. Personally I think the megabucks salary and status should come with responsibility but in this case the union got them off the hook.

Well the final report is not out yet so any action would have been premature. Otherwise your post is just conjecture.....
 
Chaostheory
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:51 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
BA aren't paying each pilot £120,000+ to fly to and from easy airfields in daylight.

 

You have to be a very senior pilot at BA to be on that salary. Furthermore, operating to/from JNB is not easy given aircraft are often close to performance limits.

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
two million quid mortgage, alimony to an ex wife or two, horse riding lessons for daughter, film studies degree for son, part ownership of sports plane etc etc.

Prejudiced much.
 
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DolphinAir747
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:12 pm

Depressing   though in better news JNB (well technically an older airport next to JNB) has a 747-200 and 747SP on museum display!
 
iahcsr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 4:21 pm

Just FYI despite the 'beer can' sayings, Aviation grade aluminum isn't suitable for that sort of thing and actually Is recycled into new aircraft components. So LL could fly again as part of a new B777 or A350 .
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
goosebayguy
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:13 pm

Surely it was insured and so cost BA relatively little?
 
vv701
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:55 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 16):
Surely it was insured and so cost BA relatively little?

I do not know if it was insured or not - many years ago BA used to self-insure at least part of their fleet.

However 'LL was delivered to BA on 14 June 1990. BA's policy on amortization is to write down the value of its long-haul fleet to a residual, presumably scrap value over 20 years. The accident occurred on 22 December 2013 when the aircraft was 22 years and 6 months old. So likely its book value was fully written down to that residual value.

As far as its scrap value is concerned the link provided by the TO indicates that all parts of any significant value from the engines to the avionics and seats have been removed by BA (or possibly an insurer). So I doubt that the net cost to BA of the accident was in any way significant provided they were insured for third party damage.

Perhaps BA's largest cost as a result of the accident was their retention in service of sister ship G-BNLE. It was slated to be withdrawn from service in February 2014. However it was instead retained as an operational replacement for G-BNLL until the end of the following October. I am unsure whether it underwent any significant, costly maintenance as a result of this operational life extension.
 
frostyj
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:58 pm

That isn't nice! Its scary how it can be turned into a heap!
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
QualityDr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:59 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 10):
Yeah, your're right, they are not. Some yes, but it is not the average figure.

So then: What is the median salary for the two positions on the pointy end of a B744 in BA livery?
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure. -- Mark Twain
 
by738
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting QualityDr (Reply 19):

Ask and thee shall get (though I loath 'medians' in this context).
LH Captain base increment minus flight duty £68856
LH Captain Top increment minus flight duty £151500
LH FO base £53000
LH FO top £113556

Youre at liberty to 'do the math' for that particular average but it certainly isnt £120K plus unless of course everyone is on top tier, which we know is not the case given the 5-10 year waiting list for seniority for LHR longhaul.
 
Chaostheory
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:58 pm

Quoting QualityDr (Reply 19):
What is the median salary for the two positions on the pointy end of a B744 in BA livery?

BA flight crew pay scales are/were split into short haul, mid haul and long haul.

An A380 pilot with the same seniority as a 747/777/787 pilot will have the same basic pay.
Quoting by738 (Reply 20):
LH FO base £53000

I had a friend apply and receive a DEP position on the A320 not long ago. I could have sworn he mentioned £55k base.

I took the plunge a few years prior to him and got an offer too, but waiting 8 years on the A320 for command wasn't worth it
 
BravoOne
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 8):
I would hand in my notice the very next day, then again I'm not paying a two million quid mortgage, alimony to an ex wife or two, horse riding lessons for daughter, film studies degree for son, part ownership of sports plane etc etc.

Why would you invoke something your are probably clueless about unless of course you know the crew and work for BA. Puzzling..?
 
iahcsr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:45 am

Any info on what happened to the building involved? Repaired or demolished ? I would presume the latter so as to avoid possible future incidents.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
QualityDr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:57 am

Quoting by738 (Reply 20):
Ask and thee shall get (though I loath 'medians' in this context)

Thank you, sir. I am outside commercial aviation, so I hadn't a clue as to what these numbers might be.

As a statistician, I prefer medians for things like salaries (and house prices, etc.). Less likely to be skewed by outliers on either end of the distribution. Then again, it sounds like the allowed ranges for pilot pay (within chosen category) is not very wide, so average works.

I fly FSX, and believe me, I can see how it's no simple task to roll these big birds around on the ground and not ding something. I find it amazing there aren't more incidents, frankly. (Though why they haven't torn that building down in JNB is beyond me.)

Enjoy!
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure. -- Mark Twain
 
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EK413
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:14 am

Such a sad sight  

I am surprised useful parts such as the landing gear, winglets have been scrapped opposed to being reused or sold?

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
Max Q
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:19 am

Taxiing a wide body jet at night in an unfamiliar airport is probably one of the trickier things we do as Pilots.
Knowing precisely where you are is paramount but poor visibility, controllers that rattle off instructions at 1000 mph
and a wide wing span that you can't see from the cockpit can make things very challenging.



Even if you stay on the centreline, sometimes aircraft are parked too close and its the Captains responsibility if anything gets dinged regardless, I realize this was a bit different but it was a difficult situation.



I have nothing but complete empathy for the Captain involved, there's no punishment greater than what he undoubtedly imposed on himself after this incident. I understand he is back flying and I hope all is well with him.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
vv701
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:21 am

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 23):
Any info on what happened to the building involved? Repaired or demolished ?

See fifth photo in the link provided by the thread opener. It appears to be dated last February or about 14 months after the incident.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:36 am

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
So I doubt that the net cost to BA of the accident was in any way significant provided they were insured for third party damage.

I think BA's insurance cover would be above and beyond third party!
 
Dogbreath
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 am

Quoting RTFM (Reply 12):
Well the final report is not out yet so any action would have been premature. Otherwise your post is just conjecture.....

Has there been any report out yet? I've been keeping a lookout for any sort of report, but not even an Interim report to my knowledge has been released, let alone any word from the South Africans or the UK AAIB.
Truth, Honour, Loyalty
 
rtfm
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting Dogbreath (Reply 29):
Has there been any report out yet? I've been keeping a lookout for any sort of report, but not even an Interim report to my knowledge has been released, let alone any word from the South Africans or the UK AAIB.

I don't believe so. Final report is due in June I believe and I am pretty sure that this will be issued by the South Africans as that is where the incident took place.
 
iahcsr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:41 am

Thanks, VV701... That image didn't open the previous time I looked. So see it now. Building appears to still be in use.
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:24 am

Quoting by738 (Reply 6):

wonder why they dont take absolutely everything before crushing it, ie wingtip, doors, wing panels etc- all things that potentially cant get damaged in service

BA stripped and scrapped two 744's at their CWL maintenance base, in addition they now have quite a collection at VCV able to provide spares as required. There's probably a limit to what they feel they will need as the fleet gradually winds down. Having operated the 744 for over 25 years they should have a fairly good idea of future requirements.

Quoting VV701 (Reply 17):
However 'LL was delivered to BA on 14 June 1990. BA's policy on amortization is to write down the value of its long-haul fleet to a residual, presumably scrap value over 20 years. The accident occurred on 22 December 2013 when the aircraft was 22 years and 6 months old. So likely its book value was fully written down to that residual value.

I recall that LL had just had a D check prior to the accident which would indicate that it was destined to remain in the fleet for a number of years, the value of this check alone would have been a few £m
 
BravoOne
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting RTFM (Reply 30):
I am pretty sure that this will be issued by the South Africans as that is where the incident took place.

The accident occurred on SACAA's ground and the UK AAIB would assist as the state of registration.

There are, of course, some awkward questions about lighting and signage at JNB which should feature in the report.

Hopefully this crew will live come out of this with minimal career damage unlike a few here seem to think may be justified. Can't really figure out why al the fuss and bother as these events occur rather often albeit the aircraft is not written off.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:11 am

Who collects the depleted uranium ballast on the nose of the 744? the USA government ? who...sorry for the weird question..

Sad pictures BTW

Regards
TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
QualityDr
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 34):
Who collects the depleted uranium ballast on the nose of the 744?

It appears no 744s had DU on them. It was early model 747s, the first few hundred, that had it. Over time, I suspect many of the counterweights on those were replaced w/ tungsten ones, as various checks and upgrades took place. (I'm guessing a bit on that one.)
All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure. -- Mark Twain
 
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BreninTW
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting iahcsr (Reply 23):
Any info on what happened to the building involved? Repaired or demolished ? I would presume the latter so as to avoid possible future incidents.

I flew through JNB in January and happened to see the (now topless) building through the window next to my very comfortable seat in a CX 77W. Couldn't see if the building was actually being used, but it has been cleaned up and is still standing.
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting QualityDr (Reply 35):
It appears no 744s had DU on them. It was early model 747s, the first few hundred, that had it. Over time, I suspect many of the counterweights on those were replaced w/ tungsten ones, as various checks and upgrades took place. (I'm guessing a bit on that one.)

Thanks..! Its nice to know to DU is being used as ballast.

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
PHX787
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:59 am

Glad I was able to spot her at PHX in happier times. Strange, it only seems like it was so recent that I saw her.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
vv701
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RE: BA B744 G-BNLL Scrapped

Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:35 am

According to the UK CAA G-INFO web site 'LL had clocked up 106,615 flying hours as at 31 December 2012.

The accident occurred almost a full year after the above date. So it is likely it had likely flown around 111,000 hours by the time of the accident.

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