paneuropean
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MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:06 am

According to several sources, as of May 29th Malaysia airlines will discontinue sevices to 4 intl. destinations including Frankfurt. The other destinations are Kochi, India, Kunming and Krabi.

European destinations that will remain are LHR, CDG , IST and AMS.
 
continental004
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:16 am

The best bet for MH with its financial and tarnished image in the West would be to abandon Europe, save for LHR, and route all the other European passengers via DOH. Although MH doesn't fly to DOH, then can by switching away from DXB where they have no feed beyond and have to compete with the EK beast.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:07 am

Quoting continental004 (Reply 1):
The best bet for MH with its financial and tarnished image in the West would be to abandon Europe, save for LHR, and route all the other European passengers via DOH.

Why not just abandon Europe altogether, like they did N.Am?

If they do what you're proposing, then IMO it's just a matter of time before BA/QR put on enough pressure to just push them off the route (or in the case of the latter, make it intimidating for them to even enter) or have MH running it at a loss... which sorta thwarts the whole point of a restructuring in the first place.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
behramjee
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:11 am

Well from 29MAY onwards on the GDS system, they have blocked off all the lower inventory classes for sale on KUL-FRA-KUL in both directions i.e. all classes below V class are closed !
 
Eirules
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:46 am

Can't say it's a huge shock that FRA went. A star alliance hub, MH had almost zero feed at the FRA end. I'd be surprised if both CDG and AMS survive too. The historic ties between MH & KL may swing AMS. Would MH look at MAD or BCN?
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IndianicWorld
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 8:49 am

A wise move really.

Can see further changes really over the next few years if the 777's are retired. leaving only the A380 and the A330 fleet to fly their network.

As the A330's are not suited to non-stop KUL-Europe flights, the limited A380 fleet is the only possibility, which is going to struggle to be filled on IST or AMS routes.

Some interesting times ahead for MH.
 
SurfandSnow
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:00 am

This move hardly comes as a surprise - numerous articles stated that FRA could be on the chopping block. It sounds like DXB, IST and perhaps even AMS could get the axe too.
Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
 
continental004
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:04 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 2):
Why not just abandon Europe altogether, like they did N.Am?

The post-colonial ties between Malaysia and the UK, and the UK is where the Oz/NZ feed goes to/comes from.
 
behramjee
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:07 am

MH is better off code sharing to all of Europe/Africa via DOH on QR (One World partner).
 
TC957
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:09 am

Maybe one answer is for MH to combine the IST & AMS services into one flight and just do KUL-IST-AMS. Their new 330's should easily do IST - KUL direct.
 
SR4ever
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:43 am

Sad to see MH on such decline, not deserved at all...
 
paneuropean
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:00 am

The codeshared AMS KUL route is predominantly filled with Dutch holidaytravellers to Indonesia ( Bali) and Australia. If MH wants to survive competitors such as *****Garuda, Emirates A 380 and soon Qatar with their brand new dreamliner, the only answer is to continue selling cheap tickets or bring in their A380 to pimp up the route.

[Edited 2015-04-18 04:03:28]
 
nuckleuz
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:20 am

Quoting paneuropean (Reply 11):

Qatar is switching to the 77W in stead of 787  

Grt,
Erik
 
MHG
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:07 pm

From a German point of view it´s sad but it does not come as a surprise.
They really have to watch the performance of all their routes - whether they make a profit or not or at least are expected to make a profit in the foreseeable future.
Regarding FRA I don´t see it happening due to the tremendous competition.
Just thought about it and for example TK steadily increases its Asia network (they just added MNL recently) and puts even more pressure on MH´s feeder to KUL ...

As much as I like MH from a passengers/customers point of view their withdrawal from FRA was on the horizon for some time.
Business traffic for MH ex FRA has been marginal for quite a while already.
Flying is not inherently dangerous but it is very unforgiving in case of carelessness, incapacity or neglect.
 
factsonly
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting nuckleuz (Reply 12):
Qatar is switching to the 77W in stead of 787  

Your statement is not supported by facts.

As QR is reducing to 6x/week B787 instead of 7x/week B787 on DOH-AMS-DOH.
 
777law
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting paneuropean (Reply 11):

Don't know that it's entirely accurate to say the MH KUL-AMS route is predominantly holiday makers. Prior to last year, I would say that was a very profitable route for MH with all the high yield old traffic between AMS & KUL. MH will keep that route, if for no other reason then to re-capture some of that lost oil money. They many "pimp it up" with a bigger aircraft but I don't see MH discontinuing it.
If its not a Boeing I ain't going
 
SR4ever
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 2:37 pm

The key to the survival of the AMS route is the fate of the long-standing MH-KL cooperation...
 
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qf789
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 5):
A wise move really.

Can see further changes really over the next few years if the 777's are retired. leaving only the A380 and the A330 fleet to fly their network.

As the A330's are not suited to non-stop KUL-Europe flights, the limited A380 fleet is the only possibility, which is going to struggle to be filled on IST or AMS routes.

Some interesting times ahead for MH.

With 13 772 and 15 A333 currently in their fleet they will either need to cut some routes or order something else. Considering the 772 fly regional routes as well they will either need to order 787's (788 or 789) or A330's and/or A350's. I think either the A330neo or A359 would work well for MH and provide them with commonality across the whole widebody fleet.

Currently the oldest 772 is 18 years old so something will need to be done sooner rather than later.
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dalca
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:24 pm

I wonder if LH might up the frequency to daily in the near future in light of this news.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting continental004 (Reply 7):
and the UK is where the Oz/NZ feed goes to/comes from.

Yes, and as we've seen with even QF itself: Kangaroo-route traffic is shifting more and more to the ME3.

Which sorta furthers my question.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
LH526
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:44 pm

How is Cargo run ex FRA affected? MH flies several cargo flights to FRA with multiple legs which are quite mostly fully loaded.
Trittst im Morgenrot daher, seh ich dich im Strahlenmeer ...
 
Viscount724
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 9:35 pm

Had MSA (Malaysia-Singapore Airlines) not split into MH and SQ in 1972, I wonder how they'd be doing today?


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MrHMSH
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:34 pm

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 21):
Had MSA (Malaysia-Singapore Airlines) not split into MH and SQ in 1972, I wonder how they'd be doing today?

My knowledge of Singapore-Malaysia relations is relatively limited, but there was a reason that they split. Singapore (the govt) wanted to focus on international flying from Singapore, the Malaysian govt on domestic routes. Competition, squabbling, split. Nice and easy.

To answer directly, not terribly organised.
 
CPDC10-30
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
Maybe one answer is for MH to combine the IST & AMS services into one flight and just do KUL-IST-AMS. Their new 330's should easily do IST - KUL direct.

My ideas:

-Take D7's entire allocation of A359s (10) and take the 5 options as 350-1000s, there's no way possible D7 will be able to use all of these - the A339 is much better suited to them and they have loads of those on order too. Use these on LHR, CDG, AMS and possibly AKL, SYD, MEL (can be alternated with A330-300s). The A359s could be configured 36J/247Y and 24J/283Y, not sure about how the seating would work on the A351 but something like 40J/283Y.
-Transfer their A380s to BA (who is no stranger to picking up used frames, like the 5th and 6th hand A320s at LGW   )
-Pick up about five additional A330-300s, could be second hand or buy new (discounts should be high as the backlog shrinks)
-Remove all B777-200ERs from the fleet.

Widebody fleet would be:
10 A350-900 and 5 A350-1000 (2-class, replacing 6x A388 and longhaul B777-200ERs)
20 A330-300 (existing fleet + 5 more)

A couple more destinations might need to be cancelled, and they might want to consider going down to 1x daily to LHR and BA can pick up the slack by adding a frequency if it's really needed. Remember that BA starts LHR-KUL next month, and I find it hard to believe (as much as I love KL!) that the market can support 2x A388 + 1x 772ER nonstop, plus the multitude of convenient connecting options on the ME3, and connections via AMS where KL is very competitive price wise.

Overall this would put MH on a path towards being a much smaller player, but one that could have a chance at turning a profit.

[Edited 2015-04-18 17:26:40]

[Edited 2015-04-18 17:29:26]
 
HB-IWC
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting dalca (Reply 18):
I wonder if LH might up the frequency to daily in the near future in light of this news.

LH782 FRA KUL CGK has been operating daily already since the start of the summer schedule. It is supposed to be upgauged to the 2-class B744 for the winter season at a 5 weekly frequency. I could see this upgauge happening earlier and/or the winter frequency reinforced to daily.
 
behramjee
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 7:32 am

Ok its officially confirmed now as flights have been zerod out on the GDS system from 29MAY onwards.
 
United Airline
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:07 am

I believe Malaysia Airlines's problems are due to the corruption of the Malaysian government and the management. My 2 cents.

What is going on with Malaysia Airlines? Are they trying to abandon everything? Shame on them not to fly to North America AT ALL and now they are cutting FRA! They already cut USA, Canada, South Africa, Argentina! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez
 
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frigatebird
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 11:36 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 9):
Maybe one answer is for MH to combine the IST & AMS services into one flight and just do KUL-IST-AMS. Their new 330's should easily do IST - KUL direct.

AMS isn't doing too badly for MH, or they would have dropped it together with FRA. So, for an IST/AMS combination the A333 would be too small. They might do it with an A380, but I'm not so sure such a route would be popular or profitable. It would mean a short hop IST-AMS-IST with a half filled plane.

Quoting CPDC10-30 (Reply 23):
My ideas

I don't think MH should buy new planes and/or sell some of the ones they have. Better utilization of their current fleet is the key IMO. MH has already plans to retire all their 77E's in two years. Maybe they could deploy the A380 on the AMS route instead of the current 77E, I think they can fill them but yields would not be very high.
Selling the A380s would not be easy. BA does not want to expand their A380 fleet beyond the 12 they have (on order) now. Maybe EK, but I think it would cost a fortune to reconfigure any A380. Outfitting a factory fresh one takes around 6 months IIRC, reconfiguring an existing one not that much less I would think.
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jsnww81
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 26):
I believe Malaysia Airlines's problems are due to the corruption of the Malaysian government and the management. My 2 cents.

What is going on with Malaysia Airlines? Are they trying to abandon everything? Shame on them not to fly to North America AT ALL and now they are cutting FRA! They already cut USA, Canada, South Africa, Argentina! Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeez

MH up until the late 2000s was like a game of Airline Tycoon brought to life.

The routes to North America, South Africa and Argentina were government cronyism at their finest. Little more than prestige exercises and/or a means for well-connected individuals to visit favorite destinations. I seem to remember reading that one of MH's leaders had a ranch in Argentina. Does anyone really believe that a KUL-JNB-CPT-EZE route would make money, even in the best of times?

Southeast Asia to the Americas is a hard proposition. Nobody flies it nonstop anymore. SQ seems to be making its four US destinations work, but Thai's service to LAX is reportedly on the ropes. An airline in MH's delicate financial position shouldn't even bother trying.
 
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eta unknown
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Wed Apr 22, 2015 1:27 am

So here we have oneworld MH cutting FRA and Skyteam GA about to announce Star Alliance fortress FRA... this will be another death especially as they can not fix LGW.
 
[email protected]
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Wed Apr 22, 2015 2:50 am

Do they still have any freighters to fra or hhn ?
 
sq452
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RE: MH Discontinues FRA

Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:50 pm

Am I the only one that thinks the perfect plane for MH would be the 787-800??? 6 of those puppies would be quite economical for KUL-AMS; KUL-IST, KUL-CDG. KUL-LHR will always be an A380 as it is their flagship route.

That being said though, MH doesn't have the money to go out and buy 787's.

I took the MH flight to DXB back in March and the load factor was a paltry 20-25%. Coming back was about 80% with the vast majority of passengers continuing on to MNL.

Sad to see MH in the state that it is in; it's a good airline and it's had some really exceptionally good fares as of late. Hope they can turn things around.
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