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enilria
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OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 12:37 pm

FAQ

WHAT IS THIS REPORT?
This compares what is for sale THIS WEEK for the stated period versus what was for sale LAST WEEK...It does NOT compare to last year or now (UNLESS OTHERWISE STATED).

HOW DO I READ IT?
XXX-YYY DEC 4>5 JAN 4>5 ; means that the listed airline changed the frequency between the two airports to add from 4 to 5 roundtrips in December and January. No other months were changed. I only list one direction, although it is possible the listed change is only one way. It is too difficult to average the two directions. I assume the change is roundtrip and that is most often the case.

HOW ARE THE DAILY DEPARTURES CALCULATED?
This report uses total operations for the month listed, divided over the days in the month.

WHAT ARE THE FRACTIONAL FLIGHTS?
Flights that do not operate every day of the month create fractional service. In most cases flights are rounded, but in the case of international service or markets with low frequency, fractions are shown. For example, if a flight operates 4 times in April it will show 4/30=0.133=0.1. Also , a flight that only operates once per week may vary between 0.1 and 0.2 because a weekday may repeat either 4 or 5 times depending on the month.

WHAT ABOUT CARRIERS THAT DON'T PUBLISH A SCHEDULE 9 MONTHS IN ADVANCE?
Most airlines publish schedules 11 months in advance. This report covers the next 9 months. That avoids seeing schedules as they are loaded. Several LCCs load their schedules less than 9 months into the future. I remove the schedule adds if I see them and show a year over year (YOY) comparison if I notice them.

THOSE FLIGHTS AREN'T DELTA, THEY ARE SKYWEST
This report only shows the marketing code. It is too complicated to show all the operators.

THE FREQUENCIES MAY HAVE CHANGED AS YOU SHOW, BUT THE SEATS DIDNT CHANGE BECAUSE OF EQUIPMENT SWAPS
That is a natural weakness of a frequency based report, but it provides something to discuss below.

THIS LOOKS LIKE AN ERROR?
The carriers file the schedules. They do make mistakes. Most of the mistakes I have seen are either related to code shares not being marked as "duplicates" or carriers filing flights with invalid data such as equipment codes that are not standard. This causes flights to not appear.

CHARTERS?
Lately charters have been showing up in the database. I have no idea if that will continue.

I marked some of the ones I thought were interesting with an "*".

*3M BHM-JAX JUL 0>0.7 AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>0.7 NOV 0>0.7 DEC 0>0.7
*3M BHM-MSY JUN 0>1.0 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2
3M ECP-MCO JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
3M EYW-RSW JUL 1.9>1.0 AUG 1.8>1.4
3M FLL-ELH JUN 1.7>1.9 JUL 1.7>3 AUG 1.8>2
3M FLL-FPO JUL 1.9>2
3M MCO-PNS JUL 3>1.7
3M MCO-RSW JUL 2>1.0 AUG 2>1.4
*3M MCO-SAV JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
*3M MSY-PNS JUL 0>1.0 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

AA MIA-NAS AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7

AD FLL-VCP DEC 1.4>1.7

AS ANC-FAI JUN 11>10 JUL 11>10
AS GTF-HLN AUG 2>1.4 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0
AS LWS-PUW AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
AS ORD-PVR SEP 0>0.1 OCT 0>0.2
AS PDX-BZN SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
AS PDX-FCA SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
AS SAN-PVR SEP 0.1>0.4
AS SAN-SJD AUG 1.2>1.0 SEP 1.5>2
AS SEA-ANC OCT 15>14
AS SEA-FCA OCT 3>2
AS SEA-GTF SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2
AS SEA-LAS SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
AS SEA-LWS SEP 1.0>1.9 OCT 1.0>2
AS SEA-SFO SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8
AS SEA-SJC SEP 7>6 OCT 7>6
AS SEA-TUS OCT 2.0>1.0
AS SEA-YKM OCT 3>4
AS SJC-SJD SEP 0.7>1.0

*B6 ANC-SEA JUL 1.0>2
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

CZ LAX-CAN SEP 1.2>1.6 OCT 1.0>1.4

DE FLL-FRA SEP 0.3>0.1 OCT 0.3>0
DE PDX-FRA SEP 0.1>0.3

DL ATL-BHM SEP 10>11
DL ATL-CCS SEP 0.4>0.3 OCT 0.4>0.3 NOV 0.4>0.3 DEC 0.4>0.3
DL ATL-CHS SEP 10>11
Lotsa beach cuts to Mexico. Not sure why, it's supposed to be doing well...
DL ATL-CZM OCT 0.7>0.4
DL ATL-FAY NOV 6>5
DL ATL-GUA NOV 2>1.6
DL ATL-LIR OCT 1.0>0.9
DL ATL-PAP SEP 1.0>0.8 OCT 1.0>0.9
DL ATL-PVR NOV 1.0>0.7 DEC 1.1>0.9
DL ATL-SJD SEP 0.6>0.4 OCT 0.7>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.5 DEC 1.0>0.7
DL ATL-SXM OCT 0.7>0.6 NOV 0.9>0.7
DL BIS-MSP JUL 8>7
*DL CVG-GRR SEP 0.7>0
DL CVG-ORD NOV 6>5
DL DTW-CUN OCT 0.4>0.3 NOV 1.6>1.1 DEC 3>1.9
DL DTW-ERI NOV 4>1.9
DL DTW-PUJ DEC 0.4>0.2
DL DTW-SJU DEC 0.4>0.3
DL DTW-YUL NOV 5>4
DL DTW-YYZ NOV 7>5 DEC 6>5
DL FLL-RDU JUL 1.0>0.7
DL JFK-BDA SEP 0.7>0.6 OCT 0.7>0.5 NOV 0.7>0.6 DEC 0.9>0.6
DL JFK-BOG SEP 0.7>0.1 OCT 0.7>0.2 NOV 0.7>0.1 DEC 1.0>0.5
DL JFK-DCA SEP 4>3
DL JFK-SDQ DEC 5>4
DL JFK-STI OCT 4>3
DL JFK-STT NOV 1.0>0.7
DL LAX-ATL JUL 11>12
DL LAX-MTY SEP 1.0>0.8 OCT 1.0>0.9 NOV 1.0>0.9
DL LAX-MZT DEC 1.0>0.2
DL LAX-SAL NOV 1.0>0.6 DEC 1.0>0.7
DL LAX-ZIH DEC 0.7>0.3
*DL LAX-ZLO DEC 0.3>0
DL LGA-BOS NOV 14>12
DL LGA-DCA NOV 13>12
DL LGA-ORD NOV 13>12
DL MEM-LAS JUN 0.4>0.3
DL MIA-ATL DEC 11>12
DL MSP-CUN OCT 0.4>0.3 NOV 1.0>0.3 DEC 1.9>1.5
DL MSP-MZT DEC 0.3>0.1
*DL MSP-NAS DEC 0.2>0
DL SEA-BOI JUL 4>3
DL SEA-PDX DEC 6>5
DL SEA-SFO NOV 8>7
DL SLC-CUN SEP 0.5>0.2 OCT 0.6>0.3 NOV 0.8>0.5 DEC 1.0>0.7
DL SLC-GDL SEP 0.4>0.2 OCT 0.5>0.3 NOV 0.6>0.2 DEC 0.8>0.6
Odd...
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
DL SLC-PVR SEP 0.2>0.1
DL SLC-SJD SEP 0.3>0.1 OCT 0.4>0.3
DL SLC-YYC OCT 0.8>1.8

*EK BOS-DXB OCT 1.0>2 NOV 1.0>2 DEC 1.0>2

IG JFK-NAP SEP 0.3>0.4

K3 CGA-KLW JUN 1.6>3 JUL 1.6>3 AUG 1.5>3 SEP 1.5>3 OCT 1.6>3 DEC 1.6>3
K3 EDA-KTN JUL 0.5>0.4 OCT 0.6>0.4 NOV 0.5>0.4
K3 HYL-KTN JUN 0>0.7 JUL 0>0.7 AUG 0>0.7 SEP 0>0.7 OCT 0>0.7 DEC 0>0.7
K3 KCC-WWP NOV 0.3>0.2 DEC 0.3>0.2
K3 KPB-PPV JUL 0.5>0.4 OCT 0.6>0.4 NOV 0.5>0.4
K3 KTB-KTN JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>0.8 SEP 0>0.8 OCT 0>0.8 NOV 0>0.8 DEC 0>0.8

KL ATL-AMS NOV 1.7>1.9 DEC 1.7>2
KL SFO-AMS NOV 0.9>1.0 DEC 0.8>1.0

P1 MBL-MDW JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.2 AUG 0>1.0

PY SFB-GEO JUL 0>0.2 AUG 0>0.1 SEP 0>0.1

SY BOS-MSP DEC 1.1>3
SY JFK-MSP DEC 1.3>3
SY MCO-MSP DEC 0.5>1.5
SY MSP-SEA DEC 0.4>1.4

TA MIA-MGA JUN 1.0>1.1 JUL 1.0>1.3 AUG 1.0>1.1

TCX JFK-MAN SEP 0>0.4
TCX LAS-MAN SEP 0>0.5
TCX MCO-GLA SEP 0>0.3
TCX MCO-MAN AUG 0.9>1.1 SEP 0>0.6
TCX MIA-MAN SEP 0>0.3

Charter
UA BWI-RMS JUN 0>0.2
UA DEN-BOS OCT 3>4 NOV 3>4 DEC 3>4
UA DEN-ISN JUL 5>4 AUG 5>4 SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
*UA DEN-PUB JUN 1.7>0.2 JUL 1.7>0 AUG 1.7>0 SEP 1.7>0 OCT 1.7>0 NOV 1.7>0 DEC 1.7>0
UA EWR-SJD OCT 0.5>0.2 NOV 0.8>0.6
Peak cuts in IAD; other hubs cut in shoulder
UA IAD-BUF JUL 3>2
UA IAD-DAY JUL 3>1.8
UA IAD-PWM JUL 4>3
UA IAD-SYR JUL 4>3
UA IAH-DGO SEP 0.3>0.1 OCT 0.3>0.2 NOV 0.3>0.1
UA IAH-MTY AUG 8>7 SEP 8>7
UA IAH-OAX AUG 1.0>0.9 SEP 1.0>0.3 OCT 1.0>0.4
UA IAH-SAV SEP 1.2>2
UA IAH-TYS SEP 4>3 OCT 4>3
UA ORD-AVL SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
UA ORD-BOS SEP 8>9 OCT 8>9 NOV 8>9 DEC 8>9
UA ORD-BTV NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA ORD-DCA SEP 14>13
UA ORD-DEN OCT 9>10 NOV 9>10 DEC 9>10
UA ORD-EWR SEP 13>12 NOV 13>12 DEC 13>12
UA ORD-FSD SEP 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
UA ORD-FWA SEP 4>3
UA ORD-GRR SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5 NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5
UA ORD-GSO NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA ORD-IAD SEP 6>5 OCT 6>5 NOV 6>5 DEC 6>5
UA ORD-IAH OCT 11>12 NOV 11>12
UA ORD-IND SEP 9>8 OCT 9>8 NOV 9>8 DEC 9>8
UA ORD-LNK SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4
UA ORD-MSN SEP 8>7 OCT 8>7 NOV 8>7 DEC 8>7
UA ORD-OKC OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA ORD-PWM SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
UA ORD-ROC OCT 4>3 NOV 4>3 DEC 4>3
UA ORD-SBN SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
UA ORD-SEA SEP 5>4 OCT 5>4 NOV 5>4 DEC 5>4
UA ORD-SGF SEP 5>4
UA ORD-TVC SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4
UA SFO-ORD AUG 16>15

US PHL-PUJ AUG 1.8>1.9
US PHX-HMO NOV 1.0>1.9 DEC 1.0>2

WP HNL-LNY JUN 5>0 JUL 5>0 AUG 5>0 SEP 5>0 OCT 5>0 NOV 5>0 DEC 5>0
WP HNL-OGG JUN 8>10 JUL 8>10 AUG 8>10 SEP 8>10 OCT 8>10 NOV 8>10 DEC 8>10
WP LNY-OGG JUN 0>2 JUL 0>2 AUG 0>2 SEP 0>2 OCT 0>2 NOV 0>2 DEC 0>2
 
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Polot
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:19 pm

Looks like 3M is starting to run out of routes intra-FL to put planes on.
 
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enilria
Topic Author
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:27 pm

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Looks like 3M is starting to run out of routes intra-FL to put planes on.

Yeah, RSW funded some of the increases.
 
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redzeppelin
Posts: 1195
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS GTF-HLN AUG 2>1.4 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0
AS SEA-GTF SEP 1.0>2 OCT 1.0>2

Looks like the end of the SEA-HLN-GTF triangle route.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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Joined: Sat Jun 21, 2008 1:31 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL CVG-GRR SEP 0.7>0

Can't believe this lasted as long as it did.
 
threeifbyair
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:02 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

Wow, never seen 4x daily on B6. AS (3x daily) wants almost $800 for a r/t in July so I've held off buying. Maybe this will spur some fare sales.
 
RJNUT
Posts: 1868
Joined: Thu Dec 30, 1999 1:58 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:02 pm

P1 MBL-MDW JUN 0>0.9 JUL 0>1.2 AUG 0>1.0


I read that they are going to tag on PLN 4 days /week to see if they can draw additonal seasonl traffic. I predict YES!
 
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adamh8297
Posts: 3222
Joined: Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:28 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

In July 2005, there were only 2 daily on AS now there's 7 combined between EK's two best buddies with over 1100 seats in each direction. The market for Q3 was a tad under 800 PDEW

They are both filling the planes with out any issue it seems. I'd love to know where B6 is connecting people to (see below may be some BOS-Alaska traffic) since they only get 283 O+D paxs in each direction per day. With a 89% load they had over 100 connections a day from the route.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 ANC-SEA JUL 1.0>2

Also - I found out that both SEA-ANC are direct/through flights from BOS and only the red-eye return from ANC is. Does anyone know Boston-Alaska traffic numbers?
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Why????

Quoting Polot (Reply 1):
Looks like 3M is starting to run out of routes intra-FL to put planes on.

Well in all fairness they dont have enough pilots either
 
mtnwest1979
Posts: 2211
Joined: Fri Nov 18, 2005 4:23 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS LWS-PUW AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

I see they are going to change the sched between LWS and BOI. Then it will be a 0630 dep from LWS with a 19xx arr back from BOI.
Nice to see switch from the afternoon dep from LWS.
They will then have noontime in and out from/to SEA, the BOI-LWS-SEA 1900 hr flight, and arr in LWS at 2359 from SEA. Guess they figure an early flight to BOI beats out an early to SEA.
That seems kind of odd to me.
Riddle: Which lasts longer, a start-up airline or a start-up football league?
 
factsonly
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Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2012 3:08 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:42 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
KL ATL-AMS NOV 1.7>1.9 DEC 1.7>2
KL SFO-AMS NOV 0.9>1.0 DEC 0.8>1.0

DL announces a 3% cut in TATL capacity to destinations like SVO and a 15-20% cut to Africa for W15, yet decides to maintain connectivity with additional JV capacity on hub-hub routes in cooperation with KL.

ATL-AMS-ATL will remain 4x daily in W15, this equals S15 frequency.
Yet capacity will be lower as DL's B744 is replaced with A333.
 
DCAYOW
Posts: 548
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:49 pm

Alaska is flying ORD - PVR this autumn ???? When was that announced?
Retorne ao céu...
 
phatfarmlines
Posts: 1640
Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2001 12:06 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:15 pm

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
Alaska is flying ORD - PVR this autumn ???? When was that announced?


Could this be an AA codeshare?
 
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enilria
Topic Author
Posts: 10377
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 8):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Why????

I assume it is respond to WN? Any other ideas?

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10):
DL announces a 3% cut in TATL capacity to destinations like SVO and a 15-20% cut to Africa for W15, yet decides to maintain connectivity with additional JV capacity on hub-hub routes in cooperation with KL.

There is something fishy about that because as I understand it, DL must maintain half of Transatlantic capacity in the JV, so it would appear there will be cuts elsewhere to balance that.

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10):
Yet capacity will be lower as DL's B744 is replaced with A333.

I wonder how much of their currency proclamation is really just 747-400 retires we already knew about.

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
Alaska is flying ORD - PVR this autumn ???? When was that announced?
Quoting phatfarmlines (Reply 12):
Could this be an AA codeshare?

They've been flying it for a couple of years. It is operated for Apple. You can only book it from Apple.
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:34 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I assume it is respond to WN? Any other ideas?

You mean a route WN's been flying for 10-20 years? Just now they noticed?

Quoting factsonly (Reply 10):
DL announces a 3% cut in TATL capacity to destinations like SVO and a 15-20% cut to Africa for W15, yet decides to maintain connectivity with additional JV capacity on hub-hub routes in cooperation with KL.

Good strategy
 
jetbluefan1
Posts: 3310
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:39 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:37 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 ANC-SEA JUL 1.0>2

Looks like there are no issues filling these flights up profitably. Given that B6 will be flying PDX-ANC this summer, they must be quite confident in their ability to capture profitable leisure and cargo traffic to Alaska.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 7):
They are both filling the planes with out any issue it seems. I'd love to know where B6 is connecting people to (see below may be some BOS-Alaska traffic) since they only get 283 O+D paxs in each direction per day. With a 89% load they had over 100 connections a day from the route.

Now this is quite amazing. Two of the flights back to BOS are red-eyes, so to an extent this is probably some utilization flying. Plus with $55 oil, it must be easy to make money on these flights. And might as well try to keep DL off the route while at it...
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 3:55 pm

What's more amazing is their terrible schedule from PDX and SEA to JFK. Both larger markets and both not effected by LGA perimeter flights.

It is also quite amazing that you can not connect JFK-SEA-ANC. They have no desire to be in the NY-ANC market at all.
 
B757capt
Posts: 1403
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2004 7:11 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:37 pm

Glad to see MDW getting service that is not on WN metal.
The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2729
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:10 pm

Wow.. no more DEN-PUB. I guess COS is close enough.
 
deltal1011man
Posts: 5382
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:17 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

mix of CR9 and CR7.

Quoting MVAair (Reply 8):
Why????

Delta has a pretty nice offering out of MDW, SLC was a missing link though. All of the core hubs (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC) all have flights to MDW now.

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

I assume it is respond to WN?

of course you do.

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

There is something fishy about that because as I understand it, DL must maintain half of Transatlantic capacity in the JV, so it would appear there will be cuts elsewhere to balance that.

Delta is already (well) below its minums with the pilots on this issue. DALPA has already filled a grievance.
The language in the contract is piss poor (nothing about what happens when Delta gets below its minums) and Delta simply doesn't care.
Up to an arbitrator now.
 
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boeingrulz
Posts: 521
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 1999 2:55 am

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 9):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):AS LWS-PUW AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0
I see they are going to change the sched between LWS and BOI. Then it will be a 0630 dep from LWS with a 19xx arr back from BOI.

Does this also end the PUW stop of the SEA-BOI-LWS-PUW-SEA rotation?
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:02 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Delta has a pretty nice offering out of MDW, SLC was a missing link though. All of the core hubs (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC) all have flights to MDW now.

Ok, but unless there is a lot of SLC originating traffic heading to the south side of Chicago that doesnt mind arriving at midnight, I dont see the market. For Delta loyal customers heading to MDW from the west, MSP is the hub to connect thru. Plus via MSP gets you there at a decent hour.

I doubt DL will get much Chicago originating traffic though the schedule is certainly set up that.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

I assume it is respond to WN?

of course you do.

 
 
JetBlueCLT
Posts: 412
Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 6:55 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 6:45 pm

Interesting seeing SY bump up both JFK/BOS To 3 daily.

Are they trying to beef up those routes to shy JetBlue off. Still have high hopes of JetBlue being in MSP in the next few years.

Would love to see a 2X MSP-BOS and 1X MSP-FLL lineup.

[Edited 2015-04-19 11:47:40]

[Edited 2015-04-19 11:48:53]
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
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enilria
Topic Author
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Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:15 pm

RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:43 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 14):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I assume it is respond to WN? Any other ideas?

You mean a route WN's been flying for 10-20 years? Just now they noticed?

I mean that it might be a way to retaliate for something else. There is no reason to fly that route except to extend the finger to Southwest or justify use of a gate at MDW or something like that. ORD is the preferred airport in that market according to the data.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Delta has a pretty nice offering out of MDW, SLC was a missing link though.

In the same way Bigfoot is a missing link. Both are unnecessary to the chain. There is some oddball reason they are flying it. DL just isn't adding capacity in markets like that under their current strategy unless its from SEA or LAX.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Quoting enilria (Reply 13):

I assume it is respond to WN?

of course you do.

Meanwhile you just think it was a hole in the route map? That's not how Delta does network planning. There is a deeper reason they added this. We just haven't happened upon it. I think I read that WN is trying to squeeze everybody at MDW under a gate realignment. Perhaps that has something to do with it. Or DAL... who knows.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting DCAYOW (Reply 11):
Alaska is flying ORD - PVR this autumn ???? When was that announced?

It's a charter for Apple Vacations; it's not marketed or sold as an AS flight.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:01 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I assume it is respond to WN? Any other ideas?
Quoting MVAair (Reply 14):
You mean a route WN's been flying for 10-20 years? Just now they noticed?
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Delta has a pretty nice offering out of MDW, SLC was a missing link though. All of the core hubs (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC) all have flights to MDW now.

For what it's worth Southwest will be flying SLC-MDW 3x daily later this summer - 2 of them on 738's. I believe this is the most seats by far WN has ever offered on this route and I don't believe it has ever been higher than 2x daily.

DL did operate SLC-MDW in 2009 with mainline equipment.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Odd...
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 19):
Delta has a pretty nice offering out of MDW, SLC was a missing link though. All of the core hubs (ATL/MSP/DTW/SLC) all have flights to MDW now.
Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
In the same way Bigfoot is a missing link. Both are unnecessary to the chain. There is some oddball reason they are flying it. DL just isn't adding capacity in markets like that under their current strategy unless its from SEA or LAX.

I find it fairly logical. DL is free to serve both Chicago airports from their various hubs. The markets for ORD and MDW are each larger than most other "spoke" markets that DL serves. Why not serve both and try to maximize O&D potential? There are enough people who prefer to fly from MDW that it may be easier to compete with WN there than it is to compete simultaneously with AA and UA at ORD. I would love to see them add LAX or SEA from MDW.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):

In the same way Bigfoot is a missing link. Both are unnecessary to the chain. There is some oddball reason they are flying it. DL just isn't adding capacity in markets like that under their current strategy unless its from SEA or LAX.

false. Delta has already said they would also be growing capacity at SLC. I have pointed it out to you many times, but it doesn't fit in with your doom and gloom point of view for the SLC hub.

SLC will be soon a 2 class only hub with some extra flights being added. SLC-MDW and AMS are examples of that.

Quoting enilria (Reply 23):
That's not how Delta does network planning.

Yes Yes enilria
everything Delta does is simply to piss in some else pool.

If i were a betting man I would say this due to the ME3 because..... well for some reason.

Quoting MVAair (Reply 21):
Ok, but unless there is a lot of SLC originating traffic heading to the south side of Chicago that doesnt mind arriving at midnight, I dont see the market. For Delta loyal customers heading to MDW from the west, MSP is the hub to connect thru. Plus via MSP gets you there at a decent hour.

Going via SLC to California is a little shorter and it gives people in CHI another option to get there.
The flight connects well to places like SJC, LGB and SNA for example. Little bit harder to do some of these because of lack of flights from MSP. Even connects okay (2 or so hours) with SLC-HNL.

also the MDW flight comes in before any ORD flying so it adds a little bit of extra capacity to CHI without competing with each other.

The MDW-SLC leg is late but again looks to connect to the last bank of west coast to SLC.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 8:40 pm

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
false. Delta has already said they would also be growing capacity at SLC.

Adding 1 flight to Chicago's second airport is pitiful proof of that.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
SLC will be soon a 2 class only hub with some extra flights being added.

 
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
Yes Yes enilria
everything Delta does is simply to piss in some else pool.

 

It is when it is out of character. This is out of character. Believe what you will.

Quoting MVAair (Reply 21):
Ok, but unless there is a lot of SLC originating traffic heading to the south side of Chicago that doesnt mind arriving at midnight, I dont see the market.

Agreed
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS GTF-HLN AUG 2>1.4 SEP 2>0 OCT 2>0
AS LWS-PUW AUG 1.0>0.7 SEP 1.0>0 OCT 1.0>0

Looks as if QX is ending triangle & tag routes, which obviously makes sense to them.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
AS PDX-BZN SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0
AS PDX-FCA SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0

Is this an extension of their summer seasonal service just a month or is it going year round?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DE PDX-FRA SEP 0.1>0.3

Seems bookings are strong enough to extend the season a little longer, maybe this will mean that DE will be back next year, cool!

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
Odd...
*DL SLC-MDW JUL 0>0.8 AUG 0>1.0 SEP 0>1.0 OCT 0>1.0 NOV 0>1.0 DEC 0>1.0

Seems like DL is defending their turf with WN on this route, DL does have the passengers to get this to work easily.

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SEA-BOI JUL 4>3

Well they are "right sizing" at least one of the markets they entered in the Northwest, I wonder how the winter will shake out?

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
WP HNL-LNY JUN 5>0 JUL 5>0 AUG 5>0 SEP 5>0 OCT 5>0 NOV 5>0 DEC 5>0

What? Isn't this an Ellison owned airline disconnecting from an Ellison owned Island? Is Ohana taking that much market share?

Quoting boeingrulz (Reply 20):
Does this also end the PUW stop of the SEA-BOI-LWS-PUW-SEA rotation?

Looks like the shortest flight in the network may be over, I wonder what the contender now is? SEA-BLI?
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 9:57 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 22):
Interesting seeing SY bump up both JFK/BOS To 3 daily.

Are they trying to beef up those routes to shy JetBlue off. Still have high hopes of JetBlue being in MSP in the next few years.

Not sure - but I know DL must be loving it between this and NK jumping in on BOS-ATL. Anything works to help keep B6 out of DL hub-BOS routes.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 16):
It is also quite amazing that you can not connect JFK-SEA-ANC. They have no desire to be in the NY-ANC market at all.

You can book JFK-SEA-ANC but its 7 hours at SEA.

Return works ANC-SEA-JFK and you can do JFK-LGB-ANC though it is not ideal by any means.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:05 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):
It is when it is out of character. This is out of character. Believe what you will.

I agree. I was going through the list of changes as usual (thanks for doing this every week BTW), and I was like, "woah...." To me it doesn't make any sense except to be a shot against WN.

Quoting enilria (Reply 13):
I wonder how much of their currency proclamation is really just 747-400 retires we already knew about.

I think that's a big part of it. In fact I was reading one news story about it, and I believe it said 6 744s would be retired. But not matter how many go this year, moving from a 744 to an A333 is a significant drop in capacity that will impact the numbers.
 
MVAair
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:06 pm

Well we'll see how long SLC-MDW lasts.

Flying lots of low yield connecting traffic into Chicago's LCC airport with a RJ doesnt seem like a profitable opportunity.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
UA ORD-AVL SEP 3>4 OCT 3>4

Interesting. This route has never been 4x daily.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:01 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):
Looks as if QX is ending triangle & tag routes, which obviously makes sense to them.

They are late to that party. There are very few instances where such things make economic sense. Back in THE DAY two people would run out to a Bandeirante and they'd leave the right side engine running. Those days are long gone. The cost of a turn is now big bucks and unnecessary stops don't make economic sense. WN has realized that.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 31):
I agree. I was going through the list of changes as usual (thanks for doing this every week BTW), and I was like, "woah...."

OK, a supporter that it is out of character and can't make money.  
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 31):
I think that's a big part of it. In fact I was reading one news story about it, and I believe it said 6 744s would be retired. But not matter how many go this year, moving from a 744 to an A333 is a significant drop in capacity that will impact the numbers.

Makes you wonder why the big blah-blah about currency effects. They might as well have blamed the ME3. They could have just said it was an inevitable outcome of the previous 747 decision.

Quoting MVAair (Reply 32):
Well we'll see how long SLC-MDW lasts.
Quoting MVAair (Reply 32):
Flying lots of low yield connecting traffic into Chicago's LCC airport with a RJ doesnt seem like a profitable opportunity.

Exactly, this is like the old days of DL running CRJs on BHM-MCO against WN.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:06 pm

AS SEA-YKM OCT 3>4

This is a surprise. And for the month of October. A lot of people from Yakima, Washington drive to Pasco, Washington (KPSC) and fly out.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:34 pm

I just checked and there will also be 4 flights between Seattle, Washington (KSEA) & Wenatchee, Washington (KEAT) in the month of September along with the 4 flights in August.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:50 pm

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US PHX-HMO NOV 1.0>1.9 DEC 1.0>2

That's a nice little bump up. Wasn't HMO flown from DFW, but discontinued?
 
deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Sun Apr 19, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):

Adding 1 flight to Chicago's second airport is pitiful proof of that.

Oh now they need to add a ton of flying? Increasing departures by 1-2% isn't a lot of flights. 5ish flights.
SLC-MDW 1x, SLC-AMS 1x....

Quoting enilria (Reply 28):

Who here do i believe.

That Ed Bastian guy....yeah he is stupid. Why in the world would he know anything about what Delta is doing.  http://www.ksl.com/?sid=28372944&nid...airport&fm=home_page&s_cid=queue-1

Quoting MVAair (Reply 32):

Flying lots of low yield connecting traffic into Chicago's LCC airport with a RJ doesnt seem like a profitable opportunity.

So is DTW-MDW also a failure?
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:22 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 38):
a failure?
DL doesn't chase the LCCs like they used to. A lot of stuff is from an era where market share was more important to them than most other things. That is no longer the case. That's why SLC-MDW is out of character.

BTW, that article is from 15 months ago. That's not exactly a hint at the freshest version of their strategy.

[Edited 2015-04-19 19:23:38]
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:36 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
That's why SLC-MDW is out of character.

I don't see what it's out of character at all. You act like MDW is the only city in the central time zone that sees a single daily RJ to SLC, and that's simply untrue. Some of those flights (BNA, MSN) have stuck, and others haven't. MDW is more competitive, but even if you say that only 20 percent of the flying public in Chicago prefers MDW, the "market" is still a lot bigger than a place like Madison.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
The MDW-SLC leg is late but again looks to connect to the last bank of west coast to SLC.

Our single daily SLC flight changes times a lot, and I have found the evening departure to SLC to add the most value over our umpteen ATL flights. That last bank at SLC hits just about every city of more than 500,000 people or so west of SLC, and it gains me about two hours on the ground in Nashville over the ATL terminators to the west coast, most of which leave around 1930. The time discrepancy will be even larger in a place like MDW that is farther from Atlanta.
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):

BTW, that article is from 15 months ago. That's not exactly a hint at the freshest version of their strategy.

I know its old.

by 2017.... two years from now. Does Ed need to say it week to week? (and internally it is said all the time, FWIW)

The "its old argument" is weak. I know why you go that route though, if Delta doesn't kill off SLC it doesn't prove your political point that the big bad US airlines and the big bad US government have over consolidated. That is why every single time one of the big three grows it MUST be in retaliation for something, unless its in a market that you say they are expanding in. The President of Delta Air Lines says they are expanding in SLC. You can tell me your wrong all you want to, but still going to take the word over the dude who is, you know, running the company.

Talk to you in two years about it and we will see who is right.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):

I don't see what it's out of character at all. You act like MDW is the only city in the central time zone that sees a single daily RJ to SLC, and that's simply untrue. Some of those flights (BNA, MSN) have stuck, and others haven't. MDW is more competitive, but even if you say that only 20 percent of the flying public in Chicago prefers MDW, the "market" is still a lot bigger than a place like Madison.

exactly.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):

Our single daily SLC flight changes times a lot, and I have found the evening departure to SLC to add the most value over our umpteen ATL flights. That last bank at SLC hits just about every city of more than 500,000 people or so west of SLC, and it gains me about two hours on the ground in Nashville over the ATL terminators to the west coast, most of which leave around 1930. The time discrepancy will be even larger in a place like MDW that is farther from Atlanta.

agreed, however I believe Delta went with the flight times it did so they aren't competing with themselves to ORD.

The MDW-SLC leg isn't bad. Like i said, connects to the 2nd bank well and HNL alright. (better than MDW-MSP-SEA/LAX-HNL for sure) SLC-MDW leg kind of stinks though.

[Edited 2015-04-19 20:25:54]
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 31):
I agree. I was going through the list of changes as usual (thanks for doing this every week BTW), and I was like, "woah...." To me it doesn't make any sense except to be a shot against WN.

LOL what? WN's been flying SLC-MDW for however many years now, and all of a sudden DL decides to go after them with a single daily RJ?...
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KarlB737
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 3:59 am

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 6):
I read that they are going to tag on PLN 4 days /week to see if they can draw additonal seasonl traffic. I predict YES!

Here is a press release from the MBL web site:

Pellston Airport/Expanded Service Press Release – 4-14-15

http://flymanistee.com/press-release-news/
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:25 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 ANC-SEA JUL 1.0>2
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

Wow!

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):
Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
DL SEA-BOI JUL 4>3

Well they are "right sizing" at least one of the markets they entered in the Northwest, I wonder how the winter will shake out?

Pricing a fall trip to the midwest, regardless of the airport I selected, Delta had the lowest fares. Not sure what - if anything - this means, but it could just be that they are trying to trim a little here and there to prop up fares and yields.

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deltal1011man
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 4:32 am

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 29):

Well they are "right sizing" at least one of the markets they entered in the Northwest, I wonder how the winter will shake out?
Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 44):

Pricing a fall trip to the midwest, regardless of the airport I selected, Delta had the lowest fares. Not sure what - if anything - this means, but it could just be that they are trying to trim a little here and there to prop up fares and yields.

looks like it front of the mouth heavy cuts around the 4th of July.....
 
PHX787
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:02 am

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
US PHX-HMO NOV 1.0>1.9 DEC 1.0>2

Capacity increase or capacity shift?
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32andBelow
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 44):

Quoting enilria (Thread starter):
*B6 ANC-SEA JUL 1.0>2
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

Wow!

I thought B6 was on 2X last summer SEANC. Either way that market fluctuates so much in the summer I doubt anyone cares. VX was in for a summer, UA completely pulled out of the route(DL has ramped up and filled that capacity), so it seems to equalize.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 27):
SLC will be soon a 2 class only hub

Not going to happen unless DL is going to let OO fly pro-rate flights with CRJ-700/900's which I'm pretty sure is not going to happen. The first time RA said this to locals in SLC in a presentation they had to retract the slides and correct them the very next day because apparently who ever built the presentation completely forgot about OO's pro-rate flights out of SLC.
 
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RE: OAG Changes 4/24/2015: AS/DL/UA

Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:35 am

The timing on the SLC-MDW flight i think is excellent, it allows you to spend some time on the west coast before you head home. Everyone on this flight would be use to either Pacific or Mountain West time, pacific time so this flight is only landing at 9pm or MW 10pm. Plus Delta has to do this flight late to squeeze it in, earlier its too packed but you can still make connections from pretty much every city out west. I guess lets see how it goes?

I think DL is flying this for the same reason they have so much service on SLC-OAK and SLC-LGB, fliers are use to using these airports and are use to them when flying to these cities. A CR9 and CR7 is a perfectly fine plane for this route.

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 5):
B6 BOS-SEA JUL 3>4

I think this is smart two ways. They dont want to encourage delta to try BOS-SEA and it feeds SEA-ANC which they want to keep to two time options to be competative.

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