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SYDSpotter
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:11 pm

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 98):
I guess with the soon to be spent money on creating the new regional satellite (and the recently completed short term car park), I think it might be a while until the Domestic terminal will get a major update (too much to ask for separate arrival and departure levels?)

It would be a pretty big construction project if you were to create 2 separate levels, 1 for arrivals and 1 for check-inn/departures at BNE. It might be easier just to demolish and start from scratch rather than trying to extend the 1st level and build an elevated roadway etc.

Quoting tullamarine (Reply 77):
As it stands currently, it is arguable that NZ (and by extension VA) offer the better service with PER-AKL-LAX (or SFO) than QF can offer via SYD or MEL. The A332 could do this route immediately with a swap to the 789s when (if) they finally arrive.

If you're measuring this purely by the ease of transfer (i.e. between terminals), then I'd agree, but on a total time basis, the current PER-AKL-LAX schedule offered by NZ is hardly time efficient.

The current PER-AKL arrives into AKL at 6.10am. The NZ AKL-LAX flights don't depart until 3.45pm and 7.15pm respectively (SFO leaves at 7.30pm). So that's a minimum 9 hr connecting time in AKL. Coming back from LAX, the LAX service arrives 5/6am into AKL and the PER service doesn't depart till 2pm, a similar 8-9 transit time.

Going on VA/DL or QF via BNE/SYD, the transit time is anywhere between 3-6 hours. In anyone's books, that's much more desirable than 9 hrs. I think no matter how laborious or hellish some people claim the terminal transfer in BNE/SYD/MEL is, the AKL option only make sense if 1) You want a stopover in New Zealand or 2) If NZ are offering cheap fares.

So whilst there is a lot of talk about how NZ is capturing the PER-US market, the current timings aren't particularly practical. So I don't necessarily think that NZ is feeding an enormous amount of traffic to the US from PER.

If you're heading to the East coast of the US, The likes of EK/EY are viable option from PER, and going via HKG is also a very good option fro East/West Coast (with minimal connecting times).

[Edited 2015-04-24 06:13:39]

[Edited 2015-04-24 06:15:12]
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TruemanQLD
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting Sydscott (Reply 88):
Alot of passengers are going PER - HKG - US or PER - SIN - US. From PER to the East Coast of the United States it's quicker going through North Asia than going East.

I take your point, but I more meant passengers that are flying QF are transiting through BNE (vs MEL/SYD)

Quoting luftaom (Reply 89):
BNE-DPS

Is a 787, not an A320

Quoting ZuluAlpha (Reply 98):
I guess with the soon to be spent money on creating the new regional satellite (and the recently completed short term car park), I think it might be a while until the Domestic terminal will get a major update (too much to ask for separate arrival and departure levels?)

BNE also has only recently (last 2-3years) completed the major road infrastructure + the current works on the new runway + the International redevelopment, so they are easily doing more than any other major Australian airport to invest. With QF 'giving back' their terminal at Domestic it will be interesting to see. At the moment it is a bit confusing with 3 separate terminals within one (QF, VA and the middle area, occupied by JQ/TT etc) so it will be good to have it back as one (or two, not sure what VA is doing...)
 
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mariner
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:47 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 99):
Remember when Townsville had transpacific services on Qantas? Weren't there flights to Honolulu and Los Angeles, or am I remembering wrong? Wasn't a decision made to consolidate FNQ services to Cairns, as it was the greater 'tourist magnet' of the two?

Now that would scratch my itch - Far North Queensland to LAX, although I suppose it may be more sensible from CNS.

If there is so much traffic PER-LAX, route it through CNS for PER-CNS-LAX - and maybe time an ADL flight to connect to it at CNS - and you've won me.  

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luftaom
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:40 pm

There was an ek a380 on the ground in darwin last night.
airliners.net's passenger - simultaneously connecting and flying direct.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:54 pm

Quoting luftaom (Reply 103):
There was an ek a380 on the ground in darwin last night.

Interesting.

Anybody know the reason?
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting TruemanQLD (Reply 101):
BNE also has only recently (last 2-3years) completed the major road infrastructure + the current works on the new runway + the International redevelopment, so they are easily doing more than any other major Australian airport to invest.

Don't think that when you look at all the works MEL is undertaking, including new T4, transport hub, elevated roads, T2 terminal improvements (bus gates and lounges), tarmac works / extensions and the Airport Link road extension that it could be considered as not investing just as much as BNE is.

Add in that MEL will undertake new 3rd runway and major T2 terminal expansion projects in the next few years, then the investment mix will certainly show that there a number of airports that are doing their part.

All airports really do need to start at working on bolder thinking though, keeping ahead of the demand curve and not just plugging gaps when they realise that things are at critical stages. The masterplanning process needs to be more rigorous to ensure that capacity is available when needed, not a lag time until works start. At this stage, only once the work is completed does some semblance of normality return to operations, until it all happens again, which creates issues for all airport users and stakeholders.
 
jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 105):

Don't think that when you look at all the works MEL is undertaking, including new T4, transport hub, elevated roads, T2 terminal improvements (bus gates and lounges), tarmac works / extensions and the Airport Link road extension that it could be considered as not investing just as much as BNE is.

Add in that MEL will undertake new 3rd runway and major T2 terminal expansion projects in the next few years, then the investment mix will certainly show that there a number of airports that are doing their part.

Doesn't it need it too !!
Passed through there last week and the whole experience was a disaster, save the Customs agent at immigration, he was very pleasant, the shame was it took 45 mins to get to him. The elapsed time from disembarking to getting in the arrivals hall was close to 90 mins, it was nearly an hour before we got to the baggage claim and bags still hadn't begun to arrive, then split over 2 belts just to make it a tad more difficult. Was beginning to doubt we were going to make our domestic connection but that was made ok in the end.
In all seriousness, it is time that Melbourne realises that it needs a new terminal for international flights, the continual attempts at expansion, when hamstrung when it comes to the actual building, is just delaying the inevitable, gives an extremely poor impression of Melbourne and Australia. Comparing it to the revamped Bradley terminal in LAX.....well there is no comparison. We were outside within 45 mins of arrival, that's with several flights arriving at the same time. Departing and getting through TSA, well that's another story and we were getting a priority escort.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:03 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 106):
Doesn't it need it too !!
Passed through there last week and the whole experience was a disaster, save the Customs agent at immigration, he was very pleasant, the shame was it took 45 mins to get to him. The elapsed time from disembarking to getting in the arrivals hall was close to 90 mins, it was nearly an hour before we got to the baggage claim and bags still hadn't begun to arrive, then split over 2 belts just to make it a tad more difficult. Was beginning to doubt we were going to make our domestic connection but that was made ok in the end.
In all seriousness, it is time that Melbourne realises that it needs a new terminal for international flights, the continual attempts at expansion, when hamstrung when it comes to the actual building, is just delaying the inevitable, gives an extremely poor impression of Melbourne and Australia. Comparing it to the revamped Bradley terminal in LAX.....well there is no comparison. We were outside within 45 mins of arrival, that's with several flights arriving at the same time. Departing and getting through TSA, well that's another story and we were getting a priority escort.

Unfortunately, this is true.

I have had such experiences at SYD, which did miss a domestic connection due to it on one occasion and close calls on a couple of others, which just highlights our need to have a better longer-term focus on airport capacity and operational planning across the country.

With MEL, international peak times are a nightmare. More flights keep getting added, with aircraft waiting for gates to become free and the resulting rush of pax into space that is not optimal for such scale of operations.

The airport has tried its best to maintain a single terminal complex, but at the end of the day it will need to think about a more significant development plan than it is proposing in the coming years. The T2 space will be expanded out onto the forecourt, effectively doubling useable landside space, but the number of gates will not have a lot of expansion capacity. It will likely need to think far bolder than what it is.

When you consider the vast amount of growth that MEL has experienced with international flights over the past decade, one would have expected the airport to have re-evaluated its thinking by now, but the plans seem to stay fairly conservative. It will only end up hurting its own pocket in the end if it can not handle the demand.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:46 am

Whichever way you cut it, MEL is a horrendous airport. I used to appreciate its single terminal complex making intenational connections easier, but when you have every terminal trying to out do each other to deliver a truly awful passenger experience I'm over the whole place. I now stick to SYD, if you are flying QF the connection really isn't too bad and all three terminals are substantially nicer than anything that MEL could ever aspire to deliver.
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SYDSpotter
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:38 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 105):
All airports really do need to start at working on bolder thinking though, keeping ahead of the demand curve and not just plugging gaps when they realise that things are at critical stages. The masterplanning process needs to be more rigorous to ensure that capacity is available when needed, not a lag time until works start. At this stage, only once the work is completed does some semblance of normality return to operations, until it all happens again, which creates issues for all airport users and stakeholders.

The issue is that the airports have no real incentive to do so. There is no competition as such and the airports don't exactly compete with each other in the way that say HKG/ICN/BKK/SIN do. If people want to come to BNE/SYD/MEL/PER they will fly direct into those airports. A poor airport experience is unlikely to discourage them from visiting. Take JFK for example, there are horrendous immigration lines yet people keep coming. This is why if Sydney's 2nd airport does get built, hopefully it will mean some proper competition.

One of the other issues is also congestion only comes at peak times, at other times the international terminals of most airports are heavily underutilised. So the airport's view is why build something that can adequately cope at peak periods when during off-peak periods it's literally a ghost town.

My last 2 international flights at SYD have arrived at 8am and 8pm respectively, the contrast could not be greater. Long lines at immigration (including Smartgates), all baggage carousel utilised and a long snaking line at customs (8am). At 8pm, the exact opposite, a pain free experience with immigration/baggage wait/customs/taxi's.

[Edited 2015-04-25 00:40:56]
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 108):
Whichever way you cut it, MEL is a horrendous airport. I used to appreciate its single terminal complex making intenational connections easier, but when you have every terminal trying to out do each other to deliver a truly awful passenger experience I'm over the whole place. I now stick to SYD, if you are flying QF the connection really isn't too bad and all three terminals are substantially nicer than anything that MEL could ever aspire to deliver.

Fair enough.

In my view though, the general international arrival experience generally is disappointing at Australian airports. If non-stop options exist from MEL, I will pay more to use those instead of a SYD or BNE transit. The added inconvenience of transferring from one side of the airport to the other is not worth the hassle, even though BNE's international terminal is likely the best in Australia.

I certainly don't rate the overall SYD airport customer experience any higher than MEL, as they are both below par.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:16 am

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 109):
One of the other issues is also congestion only comes at peak times, at other times the international terminals of most airports are heavily underutilised. So the airport's view is why build something that can adequately cope at peak periods when during off-peak periods it's literally a ghost town.

This morning dropping off my wife at the International terminal should've taken 2 minute's but ended up taking 25 minutes... Hand full of passengers decided to get out of their cars / cabs and walk which was the better option. The operators of SYD really need to resolve the traffic issue & fast!

Other news, just heard a QF flight Has diverted to XRH due to the Hail Storms which pasted by this evening.

EK413
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jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:15 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 111):
This morning dropping off my wife at the International terminal should've taken 2 minute's but ended up taking 25 minutes... Hand full of passengers decided to get out of their cars / cabs and walk which was the better option. The operators of SYD really need to resolve the traffic issue & fast!

We only get these traffic issues on weekends when the family and friends are dropping passengers, during the week there is rarely a hassle. However, having said that, SYD went through the landside traffic issue two decades ago, the current road system served it's purpose since, but is now starting to show the strain again. The domestic terminal road system is simply a disgrace. In saying that, I believe there are plans to renew the road networks to both terminals, definitely the domestic side at least.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:32 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 112):
We only get these traffic issues on weekends when the family and friends are dropping passengers, during the week there is rarely a hassle. However, having said that, SYD went through the landside traffic issue two decades ago, the current road system served it's purpose since, but is now starting to show the strain again. The domestic terminal road system is simply a disgrace. In saying that, I believe there are plans to renew the road networks to both terminals, definitely the domestic side at least.

Agreed, however random days of week experience it too. The single lane approach to the terminal has certainly reached its limits. The landside road works which are nearly complete will probably provide some relief but not enough to resolve the traffic flow on Marsh St.
I found the domestic terminal changes, hopefully the operators got it right.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/sydney-airpo...promises-to-cut-traffic-congestion

http://i61.tinypic.com/5dnds8.jpg
http://www.sydneyairport.com.au/corp...CC7ED44DC4DC8B25AF7AB22D7BD43&_z=z

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csturdiv
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:02 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 108):
Whichever way you cut it, MEL is a horrendous airport.

I flew into MEL for the first time over Easter and was underwhelmed by it. Flying back to SYD I opted to eat at the airport rather than before and the food choices were horrible.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:29 pm

^^ What terminal were you flying through?
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:15 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 108):
Whichever way you cut it, MEL is a horrendous airport.
Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 108):
I now stick to SYD

I agree with you. SYD > MEL for intl connections.

Moreover, and sadly, picking a problematic airport like SYD over one of this nation's other main airports like MEL for intl connections says something about the poor quality of airports in this country given that SYD itself is a joke on the global stage IMHO.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 109):
There is no competition as such and the airports don't exactly compete with each other in the way that say HKG/ICN/BKK/SIN do. If people want to come to BNE/SYD/MEL/PER they will fly direct into those airports. A poor airport experience is unlikely to discourage them from visiting.

That is true and might be part of the underlying problem, especially if the operators / management of the said airports have the attitude "well, the passengers have no other choice if they want to come here so they'll just have to put up with what we provide"...

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 110):
I certainly don't rate the overall SYD airport customer experience any higher than MEL, as they are both below par.

Whilst I rate the SYD experience a bit higher than that of MEL, I do agree that "they are both below par" - well below par IMHO.

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 109):
This is why if Sydney's 2nd airport does get built, hopefully it will mean some proper competition.

Let's all hope it is done properly and one day eventually becomes an airport that Aussies can be proud of.
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 113):

Are any of these going to be built?
 
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csturdiv
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 115):
^^ What terminal were you flying through?

I flew QF.
An American expat from the ORD area living and working in SYD
 
Airvan00
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 117):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 113):

Are any of these going to be built?


i believe that the works on the western side (international) commenced last year. The eastern side improvements are currently going thru the EIS stage,and are included in the enabling works for West Connex.
 
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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 119):
and are included in the enabling works for West Connex.

I hope it can go ahead with or without Westconnex. It should be able to be done in its own right no?
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:09 am

Quoting Airvan00 (Reply 119):

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 117):

Quoting EK413 (Reply 113):

Are any of these going to be built?


i believe that the works on the western side (international) commenced last year. The eastern side improvements are currently going thru the EIS stage,and are included in the enabling works for West Connex.

Do we know if the approach to international includes dual lanes vs the current single lane?

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jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 113):

Agreed, however random days of week experience it too. The single lane approach to the terminal has certainly reached its limits. The landside road works which are nearly complete will probably provide some relief but not enough to resolve the traffic flow on Marsh St.

In reality, the departures level road network really is adequate, the problem is when every man and his most distant relative insists on coming to the airport and seeing people off. What should be a simple unload baggage and passengers, say goodbye and leave, or park the car and meet inside, becomes a 15-20 minute farewell and hug and kiss-a-thon. This in turn adds to the congestion as car after car arrives and does the same thing until the queue stretches back into Marsh St and the M5 tunnel and also into Qantas Dve. The solution is another location for public drop off and only taxis, buses, hire cars being allowed onto the departure ramp road, at least during peak times.
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:37 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):
Let's all hope it is done properly and one day eventually becomes an airport that Aussies can be proud of.

Don't count on it.

If the existing SYD operators do take up the rights to develop it, it will likely be the cheap option taken. Its main asset will be SYD, which will lead to a more conservative approach at the 2nd airport.

Quoting csturdiv (Reply 118):
I flew QF.

QF's MEL terminal is fine. I dont have a problem with it.

Food options are spread throughout the terminal, both landside and airside, which also is a benefit of having interconnected terminals. The most annoying part is many of the best options are airside in T2 (International), which has taken away some of the areas that used be be landside in the past.

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 122):
In reality, the departures level road network really is adequate, the problem is when every man and his most distant relative insists on coming to the airport and seeing people off. What should be a simple unload baggage and passengers, say goodbye and leave, or park the car and meet inside, becomes a 15-20 minute farewell and hug and kiss-a-thon. This in turn adds to the congestion as car after car arrives and does the same thing until the queue stretches back into Marsh St and the M5 tunnel and also into Qantas Dve. The solution is another location for public drop off and only taxis, buses, hire cars being allowed onto the departure ramp road, at least during peak times.

The advert of huge car parking fees has not helped this.

Those that would have gone to the airport, parked and did their send off's in the terminal has now moved to curbside.
 
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 123):
QF's MEL terminal is fine.

If by "fine" you mean "functional" and "adequate" then sure, but overall it delivers a sub-par airport experience. It is probably ahead of QF's domestic facility at BNE, but is nowhere near as good as Terminal 3 at SYD.

The Virgin terminal is pitiful: cramped, dingy, few amenities, and is not even as good as their facilities in BNE, let alone Terminal 2 at SYD which is also a very good terminal IMHO. The International Terminal is a joke best forgotten.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):
I do agree that "they are both below par"
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):
SYD itself is a joke on the global stage IMHO.

I disagree (other than free inter-terminal transport). I have a long list of problems with Sydney Airport, but none of them relate to terminal experience. I've always thought that SYD is a very, very good airport.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):
Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 109):
There is no competition as such and the airports don't exactly compete with each other in the way that say HKG/ICN/BKK/SIN do. If people want to come to BNE/SYD/MEL/PER they will fly direct into those airports. A poor airport experience is unlikely to discourage them from visiting.

That is true and might be part of the underlying problem, especially if the operators / management of the said airports have the attitude "well, the passengers have no other choice if they want to come here so they'll just have to put up with what we provide"...

  

You are both spot on, and that is why I am outraged that the government is even considering letting SACL operate Badgerys Creek. Did we learn nothing from BAA? And God only knows what a wonderful job PANYNJ do.
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jupiter2
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 124):
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 123):QF's MEL terminal is fine.
If by "fine" you mean "functional" and "adequate" then sure, but overall it delivers a sub-par airport experience. It is probably ahead of QF's domestic facility at BNE, but is nowhere near as good as Terminal 3 at SYD.

The Virgin terminal is pitiful: cramped, dingy, few amenities, and is not even as good as their facilities in BNE, let alone Terminal 2 at SYD which is also a very good terminal IMHO. The International Terminal is a joke best forgotten.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):I do agree that "they are both below par"Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):SYD itself is a joke on the global stage IMHO.
I disagree (other than free inter-terminal transport). I have a long list of problems with Sydney Airport, but none of them relate to terminal experience. I've always thought that SYD is a very, very good airport.

To say I was disappointed with the MEL experience really was an understatement, the QF domestic terminal is ok, but nothing better. It was disappointing because I hadn't been there for so long, had seen the increase in service to MEL, heard of works done, being done to accommodate them, but the reality was that it was basically the same run down building site that it had been 7 years prior.

SYD QF domestic is an excellent facility, the international is also a good terminal and the T3 departures is good, but the arrivals level, baggage claim is crowded and cramped. The problem with SYD are landside road networks and the lack of a free transfer to/from the international unless you do it airside. Oh and the maze of duty free shops you need to negotiate, a pet hate of mine.
 
qf002
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:09 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 123):
Those that would have gone to the airport, parked and did their send off's in the terminal has now moved to curbside.

If I'm dropping somebody then I usually go to the 15 minute parking area and walk with them as far as the pedestrian/valet bridge across to the departures level. That then gives me enough time to run back to the car and get out with a minute or two to spare.

They should have designed that main multi-storey structure to include a second drop-off area where people can park, get out of the car and say their goodbyes then leave their friends/relatives to walk over the bridge and into the terminal by themselves.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:11 am

Quoting jupiter2 (Reply 122):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 113):

Agreed, however random days of week experience it too. The single lane approach to the terminal has certainly reached its limits. The landside road works which are nearly complete will probably provide some relief but not enough to resolve the traffic flow on Marsh St.

In reality, the departures level road network really is adequate, the problem is when every man and his most distant relative insists on coming to the airport and seeing people off. What should be a simple unload baggage and passengers, say goodbye and leave, or park the car and meet inside, becomes a 15-20 minute farewell and hug and kiss-a-thon. This in turn adds to the congestion as car after car arrives and does th

Unfortunately people seeing off family and friends haven't been given much of a choice considering the parking is ridiculously expensive leaving no option. I happen to be one of those whom likes to farewell family & friends, however I drop off, drive back Mercure Hotel, find a spot and walk back saving me plenty of cash. Call me stingy but when you spend 1-2 hours it equates close to $30 which I find ridiculous. I was once charged $8 for overstaying in the pickup area for an extra 2 minutes!

I really hope SYD Airport operators have thought about the parking fees they charge or consider a dual lane approach.

EK413
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. We are tonight’s entertainment!
 
mpj
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:21 am

Quoting mpj (Reply 69):

In reply to my earlier post

VQW was in the hanger with all the doors open, had foam all the way through it. The whole cockpit instrumentation has to be replaced, every computer taken out and checked and is currently minus an engine.

VQC was behind VQW with just its nose in the hanger. It came out a lot better then VQW and is sitting on the Newcastle Airport Apron minus an engine.

Bit of an expensive thing to happen!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:21 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 123):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):Let's all hope it is done properly and one day eventually becomes an airport that Aussies can be proud of.Don't count on it.If the existing SYD operators do take up the rights to develop it, it will likely be the cheap option taken. Its main asset will be SYD, which will lead to a more conservative approach at the 2nd airport.

I believe something along the lines of what you said is what will happen, especially if the current SYD operators take on the job.

I can't say I'd blame them for treating SYD like their 'main asset' for quite some time but I'd still hope that the 2nd airport is done right so that decades down the track it can be something for Aussies to be proud of, especially if it eventually takes over from SYD as the main gateway to Sydney / Australia.

It would be horrible if they had to re-do things as a result of not doing it right the first time when looking to expand or whatever...

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 124):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 116):Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 109):There is no competition as such and the airports don't exactly compete with each other in the way that say HKG/ICN/BKK/SIN do. If people want to come to BNE/SYD/MEL/PER they will fly direct into those airports. A poor airport experience is unlikely to discourage them from visiting.That is true and might be part of the underlying problem, especially if the operators / management of the said airports have the attitude "well, the passengers have no other choice if they want to come here so they'll just have to put up with what we provide"... You are both spot on, and that is why I am outraged that the government is even considering letting SACL operate Badgerys Creek. Did we learn nothing from BAA? And God only knows what a wonderful job PANYNJ do.

""Did we learn nothing from BAA?""

Sadly, pretty much all Australian governments seem to not learn from the past.

If the 2nd Sydney airport ends up as a joke I can't say I'd be surprised.

In fact, I'd be more surprised if it turns out to be something to be proud of  
Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread Part 199

I thought we were just one away from a century after reading this until reality set in  
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:29 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 129):
Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread Part 199

I thought we were just one away from a century after reading this until reality set in  

Finally someone picked up on it too  
Quoting EK413 (Reply 14):
Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread Part 199

Wow, wasn't long ago and we kicked off Pt 118  

EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:40 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 130):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 129):Quoting QF175 (Thread starter):
G'day and welcome to the Australian Aviation Thread Part 199

I thought we were just one away from a century after reading this until reality set in
Finally someone picked up on it too

Even I made a silly.

I should have said "one away from a double century"  

LOL   
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luftaom
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:20 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 104):
Interesting.

Anybody know the reason?

It seems that it might have been medical.

http://www.theeksource.com/emirates-...dz-ek435-darwin-medical-diversion/

I'm very used to seeing EK a380s about the place and when I first spotted it through the window of my QF738 I didn't think twice (it was 2am) - then I remembered that I was still in Darwin and an EK a380 is anything but usual.

My thoughts on Melbourne airport are that the domestic - international connections are really quite easy. Certainly much quicker and easier than Sydney.

The traffic bottlenecks around the Sydney domestic terminals are terrible. I've seen some people do some absolutely crazy things (like drive on the wrong side of the road to try and jump ahead of bumper-to-bumper traffic) when it is particularly bad. One wet Sunday evening when Botany Rd was backed up all the way to the Holiday Inn, we turned the car around and went back to Botany station and I got the train (it was pouring so walking wasn't really an option before a 4hr flight to DRW). I'm really hoping that turning it into a one way system will help the through flow of traffic. It really can't come soon enough as Monday mornings and Sunday afternoons are just terrible.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:13 am

Despite the discussion in the last thread Jetstar has committed to Avalon for the next decade and has undertaken to increase daily flights from 5 to 7 with 2 new destinations.

Jetstar admits that they have been making losses on the AVV-SYD route so you've got to wonder about the incentives to keep AVV.

[Edited 2015-04-27 00:15:45]
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:41 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 133):

Despite the discussion in the last thread Jetstar has committed to Avalon for the next decade and has undertaken to increase daily flights from 5 to 7 with 2 new destinations.

Maybe another un-friendly overnight service to New Zealand? sure VIC Govt would put funding toward the cause of Melbourne having two International Airports?
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:54 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 134):
Maybe another un-friendly overnight service to New Zealand? sure VIC Govt would put funding toward the cause of Melbourne having two International Airports?

Could be an option, depending on the deal they get.Must have been significant to commit to an extra 2 x daily AVV-SYD, which was already apparently loss making, plus 2 other destinations when it had said that it couldn't see any other destinations working only a month ago.

The longer haul the flight, the better chances it may well have of making AVV work. We will see.
 
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 9:43 am

Quoting allrite (Reply 133):
Despite the discussion in the last thread Jetstar has committed to Avalon for the next decade and has undertaken to increase daily flights from 5 to 7 with 2 new destinations.

Jetstar admits that they have been making losses on the AVV-SYD route so you've got to wonder about the incentives to keep AVV.

Wonderful way to blow taxpayers money which could be better spent on Tullamarine Hwy & rail system.

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qf2220
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:04 am

Quoting EK413 (Reply 136):

Isn't AVV privately owned?
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:06 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 134):
sure VIC Govt would put funding toward the cause of Melbourne having two International Airports?
Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 135):
The longer haul the flight, the better chances it may well have of making AVV work.

Considering the number of complaints above about MEL maybe some international flights via AVV wouldn't be such a bad idea. *If* the government were willing to provide the required service and, along with Linxfox, some terminal development, would moving some international LCC services be a small help in decongesting MEL? Only Jetstar is likely to have much in the way of connecting traffic and perhaps by running some connecting domestic services they could further utilise AVV. Flights like MEL-NRT probably have limited connecting traffic anyway as I most of that probably goes via GCC or CNS.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:09 am

Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 137):
Isn't AVV privately owned?

Owned by the Fed Govt leased out to Linfox (similar to the situation at SYD - privately operated).
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TN486
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:01 am

[quote=Qf2220,reply=137]
Isn't AVV privately owned?
I believe LINFOX has a 99 year lease on AVV and MEB
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:50 am

More information on the Jetstar deal

* Victorian government to contribute $12 million over the next 10 years
* Linfox will contribute $14 million over the same period
* Airport brings in $60 million in economic activity to the region, rising to $80 million in future
* Jetstar came close to pulling out.
* 200 jobs secured.

Quote:
Avalon Airport chief executive Justin Giddings said telling airport staff their futures were safe was one of his career highlights.

"There's been a lot of uncertainty here and it's really been quite tough for everyone and to actually sit down and tell them all, it was just fantastic - a cheer rang out," he said.

...

Mr Giddings said the deal will help Avalon secure international passenger and freight flights.

"It's been very difficult with the uncertainty around the airport to do that," he said.

"It's not going to happen straight away but we're really looking forward to working with Tourism Victoria and others to achieve that.

"Very, very soon we're meeting with an international airline and we're hoping we can produce."
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting allrite (Reply 141):
More information on the Jetstar deal

* Victorian government to contribute $12 million over the next 10 years
* Linfox will contribute $14 million over the same period
* Airport brings in $60 million in economic activity to the region, rising to $80 million in future
* Jetstar came close to pulling out.
* 200 jobs secured.

Certainly sheds light on the deal with the most appealing part of the deal 200 jobs secured & bringing $60 million in economic activity.

  

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tullamarine
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 142):
Certainly sheds light on the deal with the most appealing part of the deal 200 jobs secured & bringing $60 million in economic activity.

Geelong contains about 3 swinging seats so it receives a fair bit of largesse from both parties.
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:16 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 139):
Quoting TN486 (Reply 140):
Quoting allrite (Reply 141):

Thanks for the clarification, the original point therefore still stands.
 
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EK413
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:13 am



Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 137):
Quoting EK413 (Reply 136):

Isn't AVV privately owned?
Quoting Qf2220 (Reply 144):

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 139):
Quoting TN486 (Reply 140):
Quoting allrite (Reply 141):

Thanks for the clarification, the original point therefore still stands.

You have a valid point.

Would appear a QF A380 damaged during maintenance is causing headaches with Qantas engaging Airbus technical support to get the aircraft repaired as soon as possible.

The B747 will fill the gap operating several LAX services.

Qantas swaps Airbus A380s for Boeing 747s on some Los Angeles flights

Qantas will replace its flagship Airbus A380s with Boeing 747s on several flights from Sydney and Melbourne to Los Angeles over the next six weeks, with one of the airline’s twelve superjumbos currently out of action.
A Boeing 747 will take the A380's place through to mid-June. The jumbo is reconfigured with the same fully-flat Skybeds in business class and A380-style seats in premium economy and economy, although comes without first class.
Passengers booked in first class on services affected by an aircraft change – that’s QF11, QF12, QF93 and QF94 on selected dates – will be notified by Qantas and can choose to fly on an alternate date where first class is available, or can connect via Sydney or Melbourne (as applicable) to another A380 service in first class.

Read more: http://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-swaps...7s-on-selected-los-angeles-flights

EK413

[Edited 2015-04-27 17:30:31]
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ZKNCL
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:32 am

Quoting qf002 (Reply 10):

This beauty was running a couple of hours late, though I was too scared to get out the car for a better look.

Ah, I was onboard that CC-BBJ at that time. J class was just too nice to be angry about the delays. Shame I only did the short leg!

On another note, does anybody happen to know which Jetconnect 738 will be going to QF mainline and when? (Apologies if this has already been discussed.)

Regards,
ZKNCL
 
bunumuring
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:51 pm

Re Avalon deal:
Cebu Pacific was supposed to be interested in flights to Avalon. Any information on that? There was also speculation at one point a year or so ago that Air Asia X (or maybe Air Asia Indonesia?!?!?) was interested as well...
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IndianicWorld
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:14 pm

Cebu Pacific was said to be interested at one point but ithas since said it only wants to fly into Tullamarine.

As for Air Asia X, it was originally said to have agreed to serve AVV going back quite a few years ago now, but due to the airport not getting international clearance at that time it instead also chose to start services out of Tullamarine.

The best option is try and get the HNA Group to commit to start freight flights and then aim for them to begin pax services down the track.

It's not exactly like there are a huge number of carriers from them to target though. It will be hard work.
 
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allrite
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RE: Australian Aviation Thread Part 119

Tue Apr 28, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 148):
It's not exactly like there are a huge number of carriers from them to target though. It will be hard work.

I've only flown out of AVV once, but I've travelled down that way quite a few times (regularly as a young kid when we'd holiday on the Bellarine Peninsula). It always seemed quite an easy drive from Melbourne. What's it like in reality?

How viable could AVV be for medium/long haul LCC flights, assuming that domestic connections will be minimal? The type of flights where the travel to the airport is not significant compared to the length of the flight/likely stay time.

Jetstar could offer domestic connections with easier transfers than MEL - in the same way that GCC is very simple to transfer. However, other LCCs probably couldn't - but then I doubt if they have much connecting traffic anyway.

What about if you offer free or cheap long term parking and regular shuttles to the nearest train station (Lara?)?

Could you target the inbound tourists with easy tours to see the Great Ocean Road for instance (but keep them away from the Bellarine. I hope it's not totally spoiled yet)?

Trying to be creative here.
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