Irish 7/15: Ag Eitilt Sa Todhchai

kaitak · Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:29 pm

... or, as we might say en anglais, flying into the future.

Welcome to our seventh thread of 2015 and it's shaping up to be a good year. We've already seen some pretty interesting developments this year so far, not least among them IAG's bid for Aer Lingus (which may result in a decision this week) and ET's decision to run all of its N/A flights through Dublin. Guess Rome wasn't the eternal city after all!

Probably the biggest development will, of course, be the IAG/Aer Lingus deal and if rumours are correct, we may see a significant announcement this week, with rumours going around that agreement is close on the tricky question of slots at LHR.

Other significant developments:
- Closure of taxiway at DUB due to recent FR ground collisions
- Aer Lingus catering issues, arising from plan to reduce numbers by 20-25; end of pre-booked catering
- Ireland to begin using EJ- registration sequence.

Still no news on our new national aviation policy, a year after it was first mooted by the previous minister. Wonder what's happening there.

Here's a link to the last thread. Irish 6/15: Eire San Aer (by American 767 Apr 14 2015 in Civil Aviation)

To paraphrase the great Bette Davis: fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy ride

78Whiskey · Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:17 pm

And..

- Waterford celebrated the launch of the LTN and BHX routes yesterday.

Lots of excitement here at #Waterford - first take off with @flyvlm to @LDNLutonAirport 7.30am & @bhx_official later pic.twitter.com/2r2V6tqyim
— WaterfordAirport (@WATairport) April 27, 2015

JAmie2k9 · Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:57 pm

Just carrying out the possibility that JetBlue/EI code share could end with IAG, had a look at what code share agreements BA/IB have that both don't have.

BA have a code share with JetBlue, AA have not taken issue. There is lots of agreements which BA have and IB don't have. I think if it ended BOS would be fine commercially, I'm sure euro feed would work.

United is likely in danger more so however it could be kept if BA/IB can keep competitors.

Interesting times ahead though, it really depends on what the Irish Government regard as connectivity, would they of being wise to build in all current code shares to be kept for a time period?

OA260 · Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:41 am

Its a shame they have messed it up. The European pre order was one of EI's stronger points. Being able to pre pay/order was so handy. I will most likely eat at the airport now so lost revenue for them as Im sure others will follow suit. You cant risk them having nothing onboard especially on PM XXX-DUB routes.

Eagleboy · Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:42 am

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 2):
Just carrying out the possibility that JetBlue/EI code share could end with IAG, had a look at what code share agreements BA/IB have that both don't have.

BA have a code share with JetBlue, AA have not taken issue. There is lots of agreements which BA have and IB don't have.......

I think the B6 agreement is safe. Afterall IAG want to takeover a profitable airline, the B6 deal supports this so why end it? (Especially with EI using T5 in JFK) I would not think the same of the UA codeshare/interline deal....as it is with a competitor of an IAG partner.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
Its a shame they have messed it up. The European pre order was one of EI's stronger points. Being able to pre pay/order was so handy. I will most likely eat at the airport now so lost revenue for them as Im sure others will follow suit. You cant risk them having nothing onboard especially on PM XXX-DUB routes.

Absolutely....EI have misjudged this process, but it is being labelled as a major element of the CORE program so I cannot see them backing down by changing its implementation. EI mgmt have a history of refusing to admit mistakes.

AmricanShamrok · Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting gullairACK (Reply 191):
AA once tried BOS SNN during a summer season with a 757 and it didn't work out.

AA ran BOS-SNN for two seasons (Summer 2005 and Summer 2006). It was dropped in October 2006 and AA included SNN in the existing ORD-DUB service for the Winter 2006/07 season (flight AA93 routing ORD-DUB-SNN-ORD). In Summer 2007 AA put on dedicated ORD-SNN (752) and ORD-DUB (763) flights but that was the year EI also ran two daily flights to ORD (flights EI123/EI122 DUB-ORD and EI125/EI124 DUB-SNN-ORD) so there was heavy competition. AA withdrew from SNN in September 2007 at the commencement of Open Skies.

To be honest, I think pre-merger AA never had any interest in SNN; never saw its services being advertised around here and just operating to satisfy the bilateral "stopover" rule in place at the time. Its real focus was the ORD-DUB route.

ClassicLover · Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:20 am

It looks like the Arrivals lounge in Dublin is being called the Revive Arrivals Lounge.

It's written in their Q1 results today. Just a small mention... hopefully the Aer Lingus Blog will do a write up about it when it actually opens, which is imminent I hear.

Eirules · Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 5):

To be honest I think AA's interest in Ireland generally has been patchy at best. JFK-DUB was launched as year round but pulled back to seasonal after less than a year. ORD-DUB has been seasonal for the last number of years but yet PHL on US and JFK/EWR on DL & UA have survived year round. I can't see AA running 4 routes into DUB next summer once the US merger is completed, no matter what the IAG EI outcome is. Even after EI left oneworld AA initially remained as their American partner but EI ditched them in favour of UA and apparently in rather acrimonious circumstances too. UA have been a good partner to EI and that is one concern I'd have with the IAG bid

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:59 am

Who even cares what American Airines does with the atrocious product that they offer. No wonder their service is cancelled through the winter.

Theres no excuse for any airline not to offer at least a seatback tv. Who would even take that when United offer amazing connection opportunities and provide you with wifi, avod, plugs and pillows/blankets? Its not even worth it.

[Edited 2015-04-29 03:02:43]

Irishbean · Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:16 am

Got an email today from Dublin Airport, they mention opening a new lounge AFTER pre clearance in Dublin, anyone know any more on this

Dear Customer,

2015 is a very special year at Dublin Airport, as it marks the 75th anniversary of the airport’s first commercial passenger flight. Since then, we've been proudly connecting Ireland to the world. Last year, we welcomed almost 22 million passengers through our doors.

That's why we are continually investing in our products and services. This year, we will increase capacity in our Terminal 2 Multi-Storey Car Park, improve the surface in our Express Red Car Park, and introduce a brand new Executive Lounge after US Pre-Clearance.

Eirules · Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:36 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):

Well clearly millions of people who fly with them each year care! AA compete directly with countless airlines on numerous routes around the world, including some into Dublin and despite having a sub par economy hard product versus some competitors, they still attract passengers. They have a huge frequent flyer base, the advantage of being part of a major global alliance and a vast network. So to dismiss them as who cares is foolish in the extreme. My point was on their commitment to Ireland in the past versus say UA or even US, not on them being a third world airline as you suggest

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:52 am

Their product is third world though. Have you seen the shape of their 767's?

iRISH251 · Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:55 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):
Theres no excuse for any airline not to offer at least a seatback tv. Who would even take that when United offer amazing connection opportunities and provide you with wifi, avod, plugs and pillows/blankets? Its not even worth it.

There are some passengers - probably in the older age cohorts - who may not be that bothered about the entertainment options. Some of us are capable of making even a long flight without being dependent on a screen to keep us amused!

Cipango · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:06 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):
Their product is third world though.

I would debate that nothing about air travel is third world.

Eirules · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:41 am

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):

I agree that their hard product isn't great. But I don't think that just because they don't have PTVs or in seat power they are third world. US & AC Rouge are the same. IB had no PTVs in Y up until recently. A bit harsh IMHO

JAmie2k9 · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:43 am

Quoting irishbean (Reply 9):

They always had space for one available.

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:48 am

Quoting EIRules (Reply 14):

I don't think its harsh. Even seats have terrible material and structure. I don't know I just think if other airlines are offering are far superior product on a long flight then I will choose them.

OA260 · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:00 pm

Quoting irishbean (Reply 9):

Good move and people always complained there was nothing to do after pre clear so for Premium customers its great news.

Had an email from GC and no more pre orders until June earliest ! We shall see if the date slips.

Cipango · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:01 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 16):
I don't know I just think if other airlines are offering are far superior product on a long flight then I will choose them.

Then choose another airline. I agree their product is inferior but it is not third world.

The 757's are not worth the investment as they only offer a handful of 757 flights to Europe. I flew US Airways on their 757 DUB-PHL. Flight time was 7 Hrs 25 Mins and I loaded up my iPad with 3 movies and it was fine.

I also saved €300 on the next airline offering PTV's (Delta). My iTunes movies cost me €9. If AA were the cheapest by a good bit I would book with them - exactly the reason AA feel they do not need to update their 757 Y class.

[Edited 2015-04-29 05:03:42]

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:05 pm

We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that.

ThrottleHold · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:08 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that.

With the £300 you could've saved on the ticket, you could have gone and bought an iPad each and had your own entertainment!

RIDICULOUS!!

Cipango · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:09 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that.

Many of those AA flights leave full so AA don't think anything is "ridiculous". I don't see why they would invest (installing PTVs costs a lot more than one would think) in an aircraft that does the job just fine and doesn't have a long life span left.

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:10 pm

Quoting ThrottleHold (Reply 20):

We could afford it so we chose the one with the best connectivity. I really could not care.

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 21):

Well United did it! Don't give excuses!

ThrottleHold · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:16 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 22):
We could afford it so we chose the one with the best connectivity

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight

So, which was it? The better connectivity or the "rediculous" lack of a plug or TV for a whopping 7 hours?

Cipango · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:17 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 23):
Well United did it!

That's because UA 757's across the Atlantic is one of their core markets.

AA 757's across the Atlantic is not a major part of their business.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 23):
Don't give excuses!

I'm not.

frostyj · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 25):

They still fly them transcon, South America and Carribean. It doesn't really matter anyway becasue their 767's are just as bad.

The only good aircraft they have is the 777/A321.

AmricanShamrok · Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:25 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 7):
To be honest I think AA's interest in Ireland generally has been patchy at best. JFK-DUB was launched as year round but pulled back to seasonal after less than a year.

AA has been slowly cutting back their longhaul flying at ORD in recent years. The latest cuts implemented this summer are the removal of ORD-HEL and the reduction of ORD-LHR from 4x daily to 3x daily. In the DUB-ORD battle (with up to four daily flights this summer), I could see UA beating AA out of that market eventually.

UA's ORD-DUB service will probably be expanded from May to September next year. Year 1 of the ORD-SNN and ORD-EDI routes had a similar schedule to this year at DUB, but capacity was increased the following years.

gullairACK · Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 4):
I think the B6 agreement is safe. Afterall IAG want to takeover a profitable airline, the B6 deal supports this so why end it? (Especially with EI using T5 in JFK) I would not think the same of the UA codeshare/interline deal....as it is with a competitor of an IAG partner.

I can't imagine IAG handing the EI connecting business when AA has the need to grow their hubs at JFK,ORD and PHL. They should just shift the EI connecting hub status to PHL and the network JetBlue offered at BOS is duplicated with higher frequencies. The JFK feed to JetBlue should be shut off with in markets AA serve from JFK. AA needs to impair JetBlue at every opportunity at JFK to take back NYC share.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):

Who even cares what American Airines does with the atrocious product that they offer.

AA is pulling substantial profits right now and investing it back into the "new" AA. They will have a very formidable product offering across the fleet that we already see on some aircraft. US Airways A332 into Dublin has a nice product, but inconsistent seasonality offering.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that

"We" implies 2 people at GBP300 savings...GBP600?!! I would seek an upgrade and a new iPad for the person left in coach. I applaud your situation if you can pay GBP600 for AVOD over the other options.

Quoting EIRules (Reply 7):
I can't see AA running 4 routes into DUB next summer once the US merger is completed, no matter what the IAG EI outcome is

I would tend to agree. I see JFK and/or ORD being handed to EI if the IAG deal goes through, possibly even without. CLT and PHL serve Ireland well with connectivity. They would really compliment EI's US network freeing up EI to explore other jointly beneficial US cities...MIA, DFW.

ClassicLover · Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting OA260 (Reply 17):
Had an email from GC and no more pre orders until June earliest ! We shall see if the date slips.

Well as long as it comes back I'm not going to complain. I agree that it's a lot easier to pre-order rather than having to worry about cards and coins and so on.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that

This sounds like the biggest troll I've ever seen

... Hey, at least you got everyone talking about something apart from EI for once! Well done

kaitak · Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:37 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):
Theres no excuse for any airline not to offer at least a seatback tv. Who would even take that when United offer amazing connection opportunities and provide you with wifi, avod, plugs and pillows/blankets? Its not even worth it.

I think that some airlines are looking at the post-PTV era (which I also hope is long in the future); CX has been mentioned as one carrier looking at it. Also, some long haul low cost carriers - Scoot for example - don't have PTVs, but crew give out IPads instead (in J) and pax bring their own (in Y). I would prefer a PTV myself, but it's not the be all and end all; a long flight without PTVs is the perfect opportunity to catch up on a good book.

I've flown UA before they had PTVs in Economy and it was absolutely fine. Although I have a laptop and a smartphone, I'm not that techie and I couldn't bear those kindles instead of real books. To me, a kindle is something South Africans use during a power cut.

Anyway, back to EI - we wouldn't want them to feel ignored! - has anyone heard anything further? Still expecting an announcement this week?

OA260 · Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:21 pm

Some new EI merchandise I noticed this morning.

.

And FR looking back on their past !

.

Eagleboy · Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):
Have you seen the shape of their 767's?

Are they a different shape to everyone elses?

Quoting frostyj (Reply 8):
Theres no excuse for any airline not to offer at least a seatback tv

Quoting frostyj (Reply 11):
Their product is third world though.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 19):
We were offered AA for £300 cheaper per person but decided on United because we couldn't bear not having a tv/plug for a 7 hour flight. Its rediculous to expect us to grin and bear that.

And yet again owenc fails to spot the fault in his logic, yet again he tries to make his personal opinon the only yardstick that we should measure things by.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 22):
I really could not care.

Sounds like you do Owenc!

Quoting irish251 (Reply 12):
There are some passengers - probably in the older age cohorts - who may not be that bothered about the entertainment options. Some of us are capable of making even a long flight without being dependent on a screen to keep us amused!

Poor owenc is in his late teens and would be lost without modern gadgets apparently. I would happily pocket the £300 and load up my tablet, laptop and kindle with distraction for the gang.

Quoting ClassicLover (Reply 29):
This sounds like the biggest troll I've ever seen

He is indeed. He has been banned perm-banned twice from boards.ie for doing this exact thing. (2 seperate user names...frostj and owenc) He makes a statement based on his own opinion as fact, then when shown the error of his ways change'e his argument or claims he is being bullied.

EIBoston · Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:51 pm

Lot of AA 757 bashing on here. Pls stop, I am boarding one at JFK for DUB in a few hours

Eirules · Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:00 pm

Quoting EIBoston (Reply 33):

Look I've flown AA 757s before, from MIA to UIO & LPB. True they are lacking PTVs but the seats themselves are as comfortable as those on UA or US 757s. The food is as good (or bad) as any other economy airline meal but at least AA will give you a beer or wine with it, EI won't. For a flight that length it's not such a big deal for me. Bring a book & newspaper, have a snooze, listen to your iPod, bring your iPad or laptop. It'll be totally fine

EIBoston · Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 34):
Look I've flown AA 757s before, from MIA to UIO & LPB. True they are lacking PTVs but the seats themselves are as comfortable as those on UA or US 757s. The food is as good (or bad) as any other economy airline meal but at least AA will give you a beer or wine with it, EI won't. For a flight that length it's not such a big deal for me. Bring a book & newspaper, have a snooze, listen to your iPod, bring your iPad or laptop. It'll be totally fine

oh I am with you. Done AA 757 TA flights many many times! On my 106th TA round trip....seasoned!

Eagleboy · Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:15 pm

Quoting EIRules (Reply 34):
True they are lacking PTVs but the seats themselves are as comfortable as those on UA or US 757s. The food is as good (or bad) as any other economy airline meal............. Bring a book & newspaper, have a snooze, listen to your iPod, bring your iPad or laptop. It'll be totally fine

The only person here ranting about lack of PTV is frostyj

Miami · Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:07 pm

Talks between IAG and Ireland will end soon:

www.uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/aer-li...twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

shamrock350 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:33 pm

Aer Lingus named official airline partner to the IRFU

Aer Lingus and the IRFU have launched a three-year partnership that will see the airline flying players, management and support staff around Europe as they compete in the RBS 6 Nations Championships and other international tournaments.

http://www.businessandleadership.com...m/50484-aer-lingus-named-official/

Special logojets on the way.

Shamrock350

Cipango · Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:43 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 38):
Special logojets on the way.

EI doing something interesting? Is this a late April fools joke? :P

Is that a picture of what the special livery will look like or just a mock example?

OA260 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:01 pm

Aer Lingus posts first quarter loss of €48m

Aer Lingus has posted loss of over €48m for the first three months of 2015, almost the exact same result it posted for the same period last year.

Aer Lingus also said it was "hopeful" that talks between its suitor British Airways-owner IAG and the Irish government, one of its biggest shareholders, will conclude in the short term, its executive counsel said.

http://m.independent.ie/business/iri...-quarter-loss-of-48m-31181114.html

JAmie2k9 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:02 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 39):

I hope not, darker green is needed!

MichaelEI · Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting shamrock350 (Reply 38):

EI-DEO is the one receiving the livery, done down in SNN with Eirtech. It flew down late yesterday afternoon after EI164/5 as EI990. I heard today that some of the Irish Rugby team will be doing parts of the safety video on the A330 (a la Air New Zealand), not sure how true it is but would be good to see. Also had to check the Date as it seemed way to interesting to be true!

[Edited 2015-04-30 10:08:51]

JAmie2k9 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:27 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 39):

EI have tweeted that pic so looks like it's happening.

Cipango · Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:30 pm

Quoting MichaelEI (Reply 42):
I heard today that some of the Irish Rugby team will be doing parts of the safety video on the A330 (a la Air New Zealand), not sure how true it is but would be good to see. Also had to check the Date as it seemed way to interesting to be true!

Now that is something cool! Lets hope BoD makes a comeback...

dergay · Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 39):
Is that a picture of what the special livery will look like or just a mock example?

Hope it's a mock - no way JEDWARD will make the team!

dergay · Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:44 pm

Quoting Cipango (Reply 39):
Is that a picture of what the special livery will look like or just a mock example?

Hope it's a mock - no way JEDWARD will make the team!

Cipango · Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:48 pm

Quoting MichaelEI (Reply 42):
EI-DEO is the one receiving the livery, done down in SNN with Eirtech. It flew down late yesterday afternoon after EI164/5 as EI990.

Can't help but feel that is far too efficient and pro-active for EI?

I would have thought they would receive confirmation as official airline today and then plan to repaint in June 2015 - push that back to October, push that back to November and then combine the movember and rugby painting all together...

shamrock350 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting Jamie2k9 (Reply 41):
I hope not, darker green is needed!

It's a rather basic rendering (Microsoft Paint?!) but to me it shows they've gone with the corporate Aer Lingus colours (Dark Green and Shamrock Green) in a special design rather than using the corporate branding of IRFU. It could all change once out of the hanger of course but that's just my guess.

Quoting Cipango (Reply 39):
EI doing something interesting? Is this a late April fools joke?

Quoting MichaelEI (Reply 42):
Also had to check the Date as it seemed way to interesting to be true!

Ah to be fair to Aer Lingus they've been a lot more adventurous than they used to be, the SocialJet, DES the Movember aircraft and the Retrojet have all been very popular. When it comes to social media they are one of the best around, they've got every platform covered and today the IRFU announcement was shared on Periscope which enables anyone with the app to watch live. A lot better than the British Airways team who couldn't tell the difference between a 787 and an A380 this week and not for the first time either.

Quoting MichaelEI (Reply 42):
I heard today that some of the Irish Rugby team will be doing parts of the safety video on the A330 (a la Air New Zealand), not sure how true it is but would be good to see.

That's true, they'll join as Aer Lingus brand ambassadors and do parts of the safety video according to the announcement today.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 40):

Aer Lingus posts first quarter loss of €48m

A relatively decent performance but that rise in costs associated with expansion shows just how careful Aer Lingus need to be when making decisions, whether it's adding an extra crew member, fitting new seats, installing wifi or handing out free sweets, every change needs to make a return and quickly. I still think they may have taken their eye off the ball recently with the lack of a new website/app, delays in Business Class seats, tight long haul scheduling and the catering mess but financially they seem confident in the short term.

Anyone know much about Mike Rutter? He's the new Chief Revenue Officer who appears to be everywhere at the moment, at the opening of every envelope and very much the face of Aer Lingus management. The last airline he was at was Flybe, not exactly a beacon of success.

EI121 · Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:36 pm

At a conference today Kevin Toland of Dublin Airport Authority mentioned three very interesting and long awaited news for;

- He is hopefully of a Beijing Route launching within the next 18 months and that 'Massive Progress' has been made

- The new parallel runway in Dublin can be created at a 20th of the cost of a new runway at LHR and at a much quicker rate.

- The DAA won't be turning an A380 away when it wants to come.

Very interesting indeed...

Source: Travel Extra - @TravelExtraIre twitter

EI121

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