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Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 12:33 am

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 49):
Anyway, what is a QR 340 doing in AKL?

It was the inaugural DOH-WLG daily service. Got diverted to AKL today because the runway at WLG is too short.  
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 48):
The 77W has the volumetric space and capacity to pile in the freight. 30 tonnes of freight is not uncommon

Interesting, NZ must be hauling some fairly dense cargo to get those weights . A pallet or two of Meat and fish would help do it .
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting CHCalfonzo (Reply 41):
It would not be "about identical" to two 77W

I have been shown the figures of various flights involving SIN-AKL-SIN operated over the past few months with A380/77W/772 . Yes, I am using a hyperbole, but it is much higher than I ever thought.
With a full load - it's true there is not much in it, but certainly 2x 789s could get to SIN for the same fuel and 1.6x 77W.
Remembering too that you get more cargo away on a 77W than you do on an A380 due to the increase baggage containerised load.
 
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EK413
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 7:31 am

Really not sure if this has been shared, apology if it has but I stumbled across an awesome video clip of NZ 1st B789 ZK-NZE receiving her glamourous paint  http://youtu.be/YIla0U8UPb8

EK413
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 9:08 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 35):
JFK-NRT-AKL on NH/NZ in 27h

Well at least I can't say I'm the only one doing this sort of routing!

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 46):

I wish.. If only NZ looked at making a niche out of the situation (they already charge such a premium).

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 49):
Anyway, what is a QR 340 doing in AKL?

2nd visit in 2 weeks.. Might be linked with the Under 20 FIFA World Cup.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 11:32 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 54):

Well at least I can't say I'm the only one doing this sort of routing!

13h+ on NH is a pleasure in any class. They understand how to deliver understated elegant service better than anyone. I wish that was part of the training at NZ. Attention to detail is lacking lately at NZ, bordering on laziness at times..
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 55):
Attention to detail is lacking lately at NZ, bordering on laziness at times..

In the same way that Paul Henry is bordering on being rude (but hey! Call everyone "mate" and then everything's A-OK").

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 54):
Well at least I can't say I'm the only one doing this sort of routing!

Can you do a combined ANA/NZ trip on one fare? Expedia won't let me, but a travel agent might?
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 6:57 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 56):
In the same way that Paul Henry is bordering on being rude (but hey! Call everyone "mate" and then everything's A-OK").

Perhaps reflecting the same schizophrenia that NZ society presently has?

mariner
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting gasman (Reply 56):
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 54):Well at least I can't say I'm the only one doing this sort of routing!Can you do a combined ANA/NZ trip on one fare? Expedia won't let me, but a travel agent might?

That is what I'm interested in also. Would love to know if it can be booked as one itinerary. Aerorobnz/NZ107, how do you book your flights?

Quoting mariner (Reply 57):
Quoting gasman (Reply 56):In the same way that Paul Henry is bordering on being rude (but hey! Call everyone "mate" and then everything's A-OK").Perhaps reflecting the same schizophrenia that NZ society presently has?

Saying it to someone you know as a mate V's someone you don't really know are two different things. I only call people I know 'mate' but I've never liked Paul Henry as he certainly comes across as arrogant
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Sun May 03, 2015 8:00 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 55):

Oh yes, especially in F  Oh wait, NZ doesn't have F  
Quoting gasman (Reply 56):

I bought it on two separate tickets. A travel agent should be able to piece it together. Plenty of time to transfer.
 
PA515
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 12:11 am

ZK-NCL NZ40 AKL-PPT having some problems, presently at 16,000 ft between GIS and East Cape. Was heading back to AKL but near Great Barrier Island headed up to North Cape then to down to GIS.

PA515
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 1:10 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 60):
Was heading back to AKL but near Great Barrier Island headed up to North Cape then to down to GIS.

appears to be returning to AKL, over Manukau Heads heading 66 degrees.
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 61):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 61):
Was heading back to AKL but near Great Barrier Island headed up to North Cape then to down to GIS.

appears to be returning to AKL, over Manukau Heads heading 66 degrees.

There have been a few such instances over the last few weeks, but they seem to slip under the radar and not get reported.
Medical is always at the top of the list, and I have sympathy for the airlines in these circumstances. These days it seems that unless you are actually in labour, or receiving CPR, you are fit to travel.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 3:54 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 58):
That is what I'm interested in also. Would love to know if it can be booked as one itinerary. Aerorobnz/NZ107, how do you book your flights?

I book myself, with whatever available international websites are available. I will use a travel agent too if I see they can do something for me that I can't do for myself. I am a big fan of buying 2 or more one-way tickets in particular and spacing a night in between (a trip to Europe or Africa might use 4-5 different tickets). There are way more interesting alternatives that show up when you do that and it opens you up to special promotions for J class on certain routes. The fact that you clear US CBP in your destination is advantageous too.

PS: JFK/ORD on NH is an overnight in NRT on the way up, not back. Besides the fact it is an impossible/illegal 20min connection same day. the NZ/NH agreement does not encorporate North America or else NZ would lose out on ticket revenue due longer sector on NH.

PPS: I am a leisure Star Gold passenger with lots of annual leave entitlement and an attention span that can handle and enjoy 3-4 days travelling on and off. The lounge access makes it a heap easier

PPPS: TK is worth getting a good fare to from HKG/PVG/NRT to IAD/BOS/YYZ/JFK/ORD as well. Stop in IST and savour the TK Star Gold lounge.

For example a lower end Star RTW ticket. $4352+ tax buys AKL-NRT-JFK-FRA-ZRH-SIN-SYD-AKL on NZ/NH/LH/SQ and missing the NZ 772/77W entirely. That seems reasonable given how much AKL-LAX-JFK rtn can cost
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 63):

Any particular booking web-sites that you trust/recommend? I get up to 6 weeks leave per year with a good amount already built up so time isn't a concern for me
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 7:10 am

On WIAL's facebook page there is a photo showing the progress to the southern main terminal extension. The apron and foundations work is finished and next is the building
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 7:29 am

A trip report confirming some of your experiences with NZ long haul.. They need competition to challenge their product and mentality.

http://milesdownunder.com/2015/03/re...ness-class-san-francisco-auckland/
 
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mariner
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 7:49 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 58):
I only call people I know 'mate' but I've never liked Paul Henry as he certainly comes across as arrogant

Paul Henry may be arrogant, I don't know, I don't watch him.

I use "mate" all the time, because I have a terrible memory for names and it gets me out of all sorts of scrapes and tight corners.

But "mate" used to be used to by used all men - and quite a lot of women - virtually all the time. It is slowly disappearing, in favour of Americanisms, which is part of the schizophrenia to which I referred.

mariner
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 8:33 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 66):

Interesting report but the writer sounds like a person who expects top notch on everything and won't settle for reality. The notes on the "excessive" amount of fruit on the toast and the few bites out of the main meal proves this. Interesting how the writer compared top NZs cabin to that of SQ which is in a totally different field. Considering NZs long haul business class is just like many others business class who don't offer First, it is a bloody good product! You pay for the seat and having a service is a bonus.

Thankfully not everyone is like that!
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 9:48 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 66):

A trip report confirming some of your experiences with NZ long haul.. They need competition to challenge their product and mentality.

http://milesdownunder.com/2015/03/re...ness-class-san-francisco-auckland/


It's all about the destination AND the journey.

Yes NZ need to improve things in Business service. No they aren't half as bad as this reviewer makes them out to be. He/she obviously had a bee in their bonnet (a stick analogy comes to mind). Yes they should provide better kits and look at PJs like their competitors. In business they should work more professionally than in economy with how they interact with their pax (less mate and more sir/ma'am).
 
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zkojq
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 9:50 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 44):
I think I have a reasonable grasp of real world airline economics, but I don't see anything wrong with the occasional wet dream.

Likewise.  
Quoting gasman (Reply 45):
There is no "feel good factor" associated with travelling on a 777. It is an utterly boring tube with wings and only two engines.

  

Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 48):
One must remember to look below the cabin floor to understand why the 77W outclasses both the 748 and A380 for an Air New Zealand type operation.
Quoting Mr AirNZ (Reply 48):
The other two models discussed simply do not have the space to fit in the freight due to their hull shapes.

   This is a problem that could be solved with 747-8 freighters, right. 
Quoting gasman (Reply 50):

  

Quoting 777ER (Reply 68):
Interesting report but the writer sounds like a person who expects top notch on everything and won't settle for reality. The notes on the "excessive" amount of fruit on the toast and the few bites out of the main meal proves this

I agree completely. They did have some valid points, no question, but quotes such as the following makes them seem excessively demanding....

Quote:
In fact it was 33 minutes after the plane had lifted off the runway before drinks started to be served.

33 minutes is about the time it takes for a 77W to reach cruise.

Quote:
We sat and stared at the massive crease in the table cloth

Oh, the Humanity!

Quote:
One thing we did notice throughout the night was that whenever the flight passed through the smallest turbulence, the flight service manager was particularly concerned to rush through the cabin in a very loud fashion demanding everyone put their seatbelts on.

We felt like pointing out that the job title is flight service manager, not flight safety manager

I know right! How dare the CSM look out for their safety.  

Their next review is of the Qantas lounge at Auckland where they spend a lot of time being surprised that it is smaller than the Qantas first lounge at Sydney. Who would have thought?
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 66):
They need competition to challenge their product and mentality.

They certainly do. I was pleased to note the writer commented on the dustiness of the J class seat. This has been a major turn-off for me the last two times I've flown this product.
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 10:43 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 68):
You pay for the seat and having a service is a bonus.

Call me a cheap guy but if I was to pay thousands for a business fare, I'd say service is pretty high up on there and definately not a bonus. The article may or may not be harsh but maybe a few truths have been brought up there that need to be hit home?
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 68):

Service is service and should never be a bonus, especially if you're spending 4-6x more than you would in Y. You expect good service. It shouldn't be an "optional" extra where it sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. That's called inconsistency and Emirates excels at that.

The writer proves a point about the product they portray - "utter luxury". If you purport your product to be utter luxury, there would be some expectation that it would be out of this world and therefore comparable to SQ F.

I think NZ could look at BR to see a good J from an airline who doesn't have F. Dom Perignon is served in J and they use the much nicer reverse herringbone cirrus product.
NZ could find a nice sparkling wine like Cloudy Bay Pelorus Vintage. But no. The lack of competition means they don't even have to try to make an effort.

Jase (and Mariner), I suggest you read this trip report before you comment on "excessively demanding": http://dcta.boardingarea.com/2015/05...lass-washington-to-tokyo-not-good/

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 72):

Precisely.

[Edited 2015-05-04 04:11:13]
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 64):
Any particular booking web-sites that you trust/recommend?

I have used most of the companies that skyscanner searches at some point in time or another plus all the regular nz sites.

Quoting gasman (Reply 71):
This has been a major turn-off for me the last two times I've flown this product.

That's a specification change not a personnel thing, but yes very obvious all the same. Things I have noticed in C/U and Y Classes since 2013 in particular.

- no staff in the cabin except during service. (in any class)
- no regular water service in Y OR bottled water handed out prior to 'bedtime' - C/U do have bottles at least
- slack tray collection in all classes.
- casual staff and infact just rude (clearing half finished coffees/drinks/trays without checking first)
- Shrinking trays (and lower specification/quality)
- Food and IFE Menu rotations less frequent

I wonder if the behavioural issues from cabin crew may be to do with their own disappointment that the specifications have dropped to such an extent they are actually embarassed when they are expected to make the false airlineratings.com airline of the year announcements onboard and have given up making do, in order to raise the issue to management, The more complaints there are maybe they think the more chance the specs will be raised again.
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 1:38 pm

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 72):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 68):You pay for the seat and having a service is a bonus.
Call me a cheap guy but if I was to pay thousands for a business fare, I'd say service is pretty high up on there and definately not a bonus. The article may or may not be harsh but maybe a few truths have been brought up there that need to be hit home?
Quoting NZ107 (Reply 73):

Service is service and should never be a bonus, especially if you're spending 4-6x more than you would in Y. You expect good service. It shouldn't be an "optional" extra where it sometimes happens and sometimes doesn't. That's called inconsistency and Emirates excels at that.

When you board an aircraft, your only paying for the seat from A-B-C-D or how many stops your doing on the same fare/itinerary. In this case your paying for a seat that fully reclines. Airlines are not obligated to provide a service. Yes its nice to receive top notch service but for the over ego flyers they certainly expect more and this report puts that person in the ego compartment. Normal flyers like myself don't expect a crew person to go out of their way to please others. Just need to look at some of the comments in the report

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 74):
The more complaints there are maybe they think the more chance the specs will be raised again.

But that usually could end up back firing on the crew person
 
ZKOJH
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 3:03 pm

Air NZ to shut down Dreamliners every 3 months -

Air New Zealand will join other airlines and shut down Dreamliners completely every three months after tests exposed a problem that could cause the plane to lose all electrical power and a loss of control.

The United States Federal Aviation Administration said laboratory tests by Boeing had exposed a computer glitch in a 787 that was run continuously for 248 days and could cause it to lose power as generator units simultaneously went into failsafe mode.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11443089
 
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 6:08 pm

Some further fuel to the fire on WIAL's long haul plans

WIAL said on Monday that it achieved its busiest month for international travellers ever in April.

"77,000 people, more than twice the capacity of The Stadium travelled to and from Wellington in April, an increase of 17 per cent (on April last year) and our biggest month ever," said Matt Clarke, Wellington Airport's Chief Commercial Officer. The market is growing and more people were flying long haul in and out of Wellington via Australia. Wellington is becoming a strong tourism destination and a starting point for travelling in either island, the airport said.

Travellers routes:

Where are Wellington airport's extra passengers coming from and going to?

From:

16 per cent increase in European visitors over the last 12 months

4 per cent growth in Asia and North America visitors.

To:

8 per cent increase in number of Wellingtonians travelling long haul

35 per cent increase in Wellingtonian long haul travel via Australia assisted by the Qantas/Emirates partnership, to Europe and Asia.


Source: Wellington International Airport.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/6826...rs-pass-through-wellington-airport
 
zkncj
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 7:36 pm

Looks like QF8 is dropping into AKL, currently out over the Manukau Heads.
 
Megatop747-412
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 9:42 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 78):

Looks like QF8 is dropping into AKL, currently out over the Manukau Heads.


Yep I was surprised to see it at AKL. According to FR24 the aircraft is VH-OQI. Aircraft just taken off from 05R a few moments ago, heading back to SYD.

Anyone has any ideas why was it in AKL?

[Edited 2015-05-04 14:43:09]
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 9:47 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 73):
NZ could find a nice sparkling wine like Cloudy Bay Pelorus Vintage. But no. The lack of competition means they don't even have to try to make an effort

And this is absolutely true, and in a free market economy, absolutely fine. The theory goes that if the value for money NZ offers keeps dropping, that eventually they will be forced to raise their game by a) people accepting some inconvenience and flying alternate carriers and routes or b) another player entering the market and competing on NZ's monopoly routes.

I keep waiting for these certainties of economics to kick in, but alas, it seems that the catchment we're talking about is just slightly too small for all the usual economic theories of supply, demand and competition to apply.

But here's what I just don't get. The public, and even less understandably, the media keep blindly extolling NZs virtues which serves to further entrench the unjustifiable market privilege they enjoy. The recent issue with the 787 software bug is a case in point. The whole issue was reported as though NZ had taken the initiative by recognising a safety issue that had only been dimly perceived by Boeing, and were leading the charge in taking appropriate action against it. Nothing, of course, could be further from the truth. They were simply taking the correct action as advised by the maufacturer as all other 787 operators will do, as to not do so would be akin to negligence.

Until NZs poor value for money is recognised by the wider public (and not just a few of us here), and fairly reported by the media, the situation will not change. Expect service to deteriorate to the point of absolute indifference until it does.

[Edited 2015-05-04 14:51:58]
 
zkncj
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Mon May 04, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting Megatop747-412 (Reply 79):
Anyone has any ideas why was it in AKL?

Looks like there was some forecasted fog in SYD this morning, must have been low on revere fuel maybe
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 6:35 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 75):
When you board an aircraft, your only paying for the seat from A-B-C-D or how many stops your doing on the same fare/itinerary

Try telling airlines that. Maybe the price of First and Business Class will come down if you're only paying for the seat.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 75):
Airlines are not obligated to provide a service

You would fail as a CEO of an airline with such mindset. Even Alan Joyce or even Gary Toomey would know better. Without a service, you wouldn't have an airline. Not providing a service is how you lose reputation, passengers, profits and ultimately the company.



Anyway, NZ is opening its refurbished SYD lounge on 23 May:
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zeal...ney-airport-lounge-to-open-mid-may
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 7:00 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 82):
Anyway, NZ is opening its refurbished SYD lounge on 23 May:
http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zeal...ney-airport-lounge-to-open-mid-may

Ironic. Out of all the Intl. lounges in NZ's network, SYD would have been the one that I would have said had a pleasant ambience and was working well. When are they going to do something about AKL, or the cramped dungeon which is MEL? Although it does prepare you for the flight I guess........
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 7:02 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 83):
When are they going to do something about AKL

Right now. They're building a new one in the place of the landside observation deck  
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 82):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 75):When you board an aircraft, your only paying for the seat from A-B-C-D or how many stops your doing on the same fare/itineraryTry telling airlines that. Maybe the price of First and Business Class will come down if you're only paying for the seat.

Those J/F seats take up more room on an aircraft then 1 economy seat. Airlines need to sell those seats at a mark up to compensate for the loss of space taken up by one seat.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 82):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 75):Airlines are not obligated to provide a serviceYou would fail as a CEO of an airline with such mindset. Even Alan Joyce or even Gary Toomey would know better. Without a service, you wouldn't have an airline. Not providing a service is how you lose reputation, passengers, profits and ultimately the company.

How does JQ who sell J seats but don't offer much premium products make money/sell seats? Customers still purchase those bigger seats as they offer more space. I've flown Y+ but turned down food as all I was wanting was sleep. Airlines offer extra services because they know they have to not because they must or because extra money is involved.
 
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NZ107
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 7:18 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):
Airlines need to sell those seats at a mark up to compensate for the loss of space taken up by one seat.

Still doesn't explain why the mark up is so much more than the extra space you get.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):

How does JQ who sell J seats but don't offer much premium products make money/sell seats?

Because they provide a service. If there was no service, they wouldn't be flying because there would be no flights to service. Kind of like why Jetstar Hong Kong suits your strategy.

Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):
Airlines offer extra services because they know they have to not because they must or because extra money is involved.

So why would FAs working in the premium cabins get paid more than those in Y?

Go to India and you'll find out you're the abnormal one for not pressing the call button.

[Edited 2015-05-05 00:23:38]
 
ZKSUJ
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 11:40 am

Quoting 777ER (Reply 75):
When you board an aircraft, your only paying for the seat from A-B-C-D or how many stops your doing on the same fare/itinerary. In this case your paying for a seat that fully reclines. Airlines are not obligated to provide a service. Yes its nice to receive top notch service but for the over ego flyers they certainly expect more and this report puts that person in the ego compartment. Normal flyers like myself don't expect a crew person to go out of their way to please others. Just need to look at some of the comments in the report

I whole-heartedly disagree with you, in fact I believe the majority of the flying public disagree with you.
Let me put it this way... Can you tell me the difference between a works ticket and a seat ticket when booking across the Tasman? You pay extra for the works not so you can just sit in a seat, with that ticket you can EXPECT a meal etc... because it is what you paid for and it is what has been advertised that you will recieve. Other wise everyone would be booking the works and praying or having fingers crossed that they will get a meal??? That's just poor form
Don't believe me? Here's the link http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/the-works

In Business class you expect all the frills, not just a seat. In fact you don't just get a meal but one designed by a consultant chef. Nothing to do with Ego, just getting the level of service you paid for http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/tasma...-pacific-compare-products-business

So I have to disagree with you. If you pay for a service then yes you can expect to get it. Like this guy in the report. Yes his expectations may be high, I really don't know. But regardless they were not met when he compared us to other carriers. I hope that people who can make a difference take it into account, assess it and change if required rather.

Besides I only have to read these forums and talk to some of my mates (a lot of them non aviation related) who notice the decline in in-flight services while still being charged a premium. Many I know choose not to fly NZ anymore which is a real shame, pay more and get less is the general gist. So maybe this reporter is just stating things that we may need to hear (whether we like it or not).

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 84):
Right now. They're building a new one in the place of the landside observation deck

This is dissapointing. I was hoping the observation deck would re-open. Was always good going up there at night

[Edited 2015-05-05 04:48:01]

[Edited 2015-05-05 05:07:36]
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 2:10 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 86):
Quoting 777ER (Reply 85):Airlines need to sell those seats at a mark up to compensate for the loss of space taken up by one seat.
Still doesn't explain why the mark up is so much more than the extra space you get.

Airlines obviously aren't a charity and so need to sell the seats at a price to cover their costs. If meals weren't provided then hopefully the airfares would reduce.

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 86):
Kind of like why Jetstar Hong Kong suits your strategy.

JQ Hong Kong isn't flying due to launch/legal issues

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 86):
So why would FAs working in the premium cabins get paid more than those in Y?

Due to the extra services that the airline chooses to offer.

When you board an aircraft, your only buying a seat. No airline is required (unless its stated in their contract of carrage) to provide a service, hence why we have LCCs and ULCCs

Quoting ZKSUJ (Reply 87):

The Works state a meal so a meal is provided. NZ state a meal will be provided as it chooses to provide a meal. NZ isn't required to provide you with a meal if it can't due to operational reasons as per its contract of carrage. Only part I can find on this is special meals

5.5 SPECIAL MEALS
We will try to ensure that if you have requested a dietary or religious special meal on an
international flight when you make your reservation, it is available (that is, if the service of special
meals is an option on your selected flight). We will not, however, be liable to you for loss, expense,
breach of contract or other damage should we, for any reason, be unable to supply such requested
special meal.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 88):

When you board an aircraft, your only buying a seat.

No, I'm not. Under contract law, I'm buying a seat with the amenities advertised as pertaining to that seat. If the contract of carriage purports to negate the advertised amenities, it's misleading advertising and subject to sanction by the Commerce Commission.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 89):
with the amenities advertised as pertaining to that seat

Herein lies the problem. The amenities are only described, at best, in general terms . A meal is a generic term and means nothing unless ( considerably }more expansively described.
 
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 6:08 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 91):
Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 90):A meal is a generic term and means nothing unless ( considerably }more expansively described.
Agreed, but there's this:
http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/business-class-menu http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/777-300-business-premier#business http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/777-200-business-premier#business http://www.airnewzealand.co.nz/787-9-business-premier#business

But if NZ can't provide it due to operational reasons then there is nothing you can do about it as they are not required to deliver, for example, you purchased a seat in J on a 777 with lie flat seats but the flight was changed to a 767/320. NZ isn't required as per the contract of carrage that was agreed to when buying the ticket to refund/compensate you for the service you didn't receive.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 7:32 pm

Quoting 777ER (Reply 92):
NZ isn't required as per the contract of carrage that was agreed to when buying the ticket to refund/compensate you for the service you didn't receive.

NZ Contract of Carriage:

"9.2.1 We reserve the right to substitute an aircraft and/or Alternative Carrier ... you shall have
the option, subject to our agreement, either:
9.2.1.1
to be carried on another of our scheduled services on which space is available in the same class, or where space is not available, on the services of an Alternative Carrier, in either case without additional charge or refund to you; or
9.2.1.2
to be re-routed to the next Stopover or destination shown on your Ticket by our own services or those of an Alternative Carrier. If the fare and charges for the revised routing are lower than what you have paid, we shall refund the difference;
9.2.1.3
if neither of the above alternatives is acceptable to you, we will make a refund or provide a credit"
 
Gasman
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Tue May 05, 2015 11:09 pm

I think to an extent we're quibbling over semantics here....... but the point is, most of the traveling public (and to a lesser extent, even us) would be surprised at the extent to which airlines are *not* obliged to provide a service. If you check the small print on an average ticket, the airline is required to get you to your destination, and anything else is pretty much goodwill.

Now of course airlines do provide service, but that has more to do with marketing, loyalty, and getting you to come back again rather than any contractual legal obligation. As long as they get you there they can delay you, give you a different seat to what you paid for, give you a dirty aircraft (as NZ have discovered), provide you with an inedible meal (or no meal at all), be rude (as US FAs have discovered) - and the only comeback you have as a traveler is to send your business elsewhere in the future.
 
wstakl
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Wed May 06, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 84):
Right now. They're building a new one in the place of the landside observation deck  

So there will be no landside viewing at all of the International gates? That's the first place I go once checked in!
 
zkncj
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Wed May 06, 2015 5:17 am

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 96):
So there will be no landside viewing at all of the International gates? That's the first place I go once checked in!

The sign saying temporarily - so maybe it will re-open.

Bonus if you've got NZ lounge access as the lounge will have that view instead
 
haggis73
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Wed May 06, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting WSTAKL (Reply 96):
So there will be no landside viewing at all of the International gates?

Looking at the construction going on there at the moment from airside, it looks like the upper observation deck will remain with the NZ lounge taking over the lower viewing area and the large conference room.
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Wed May 06, 2015 5:58 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 94):

Airlines are not obligated to provide any type of service. They only do it based on what you've said which is to keep customers, which is why your basically buying just your seat
 
777ER
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RE: New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 158

Wed May 06, 2015 6:03 am

A response in todays Dominion Post from The Board of Airline Representatives about WIAL's runway project

Plans to get more people into Wellington by extending the airport runway could actually result in fewer airlines flying here, Wellington City Council has been warned.

The Board of Airline Representatives addressed the council on Wednesday, in the second day on public hearings on the council's draft Long-Term Plan, calling on councillors to get more information before committing funding to a runway extension at Wellington airport.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post...n-on-runway-extension-airlines-say

The other half of the article is discussing the Council's plans for other services/issues

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