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AF086
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Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:28 pm

Delta is making changes to the Brazilian flights as follows. The changes will happen in different steps starting on 11/05 with BSB losing one frequency to ATL.

Currently:

ATL-GRU - 14x weekly - 763
JFK-GRU - 7x weekly - 764
DTW-GRU - 7x weekly - 763
ATL-BSB - 7x weekly - 763
ATL-GIG- 7x weekly - 764

After the changes

ATL-GRU - 11x weekly - 763
JFK-GRU - 7x weekly - 764
DTW-GRU - 5x weekly - 763
ATL-BSB - 4x weekly - 763
ATL-GIG - 7x weekly - A333

[Edited 2015-04-29 11:48:25]
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simairlinenet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:32 pm

To be clear, the ATL-BSB cut had been loaded well before the ATL-GRU and DTW-GRU cuts, so it was not new.
 
Sightseer
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:39 pm

Interesting that GIG is actually seeing an increase in capacity. Will this be the first time DL has sent the A333 to Deep South America? I think the A332 has been used to EZE (and LIM) before.
 
dcajet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:44 pm

Not sure if this has been posted on A.net but as part of these cuts, Delta is suspending service to SVO this next winter, resuming it Summer 2016. I believe that will be the first time since the 90s that no US airline serves Russia.
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deltairlines
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:44 pm

ATLBSB is 4x weekly effective June 1. Still 76Z.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:46 pm

The Brazilian economy cooling down? Too much offer with Azul and other new flights?

Interestingly, the only flight that sees more service is GIG where American tourism is significant.
 
AF086
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 4):
ATLBSB is 4x weekly effective June 1. Still 76Z.

Indeed, my mistake. Already corrected the main post. Thanks for the heads up.
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mhkansan
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:50 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 5):
Interestingly, the only flight that sees more service is GIG where American tourism is significant.

AA also dropped DFW-GIG recently, but added capacity with larger 777s to the market.

I wonder why the reductions - There's always a fight for new Brazil slots so I guess I assumed it was a moneymaker for just about anybody.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:54 pm

Yes as mentioned on their earnings call last week, Delta is seeing weakness in Brazil and would reduce capacity by 15%.

Delta First Quarter Profit (by LawnDart Apr 15 2015 in Civil Aviation)

=
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yellowtail
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:56 pm

Its a money maker if you are flying from anywhere to MIA and IAH-GIG. Apart from that, its nothing like the yields on LHR-LAD!
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mercure1
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 7):
I wonder why the reductions - There's always a fight for new Brazil slots so I guess I assumed it was a moneymaker for just about anybody.

Brazil has tanked. Market is more Brazil point of sale. Their currency is weaker, and along with host of other negative economic indicators which drives down demand.

Also further hurting US airlines is that in a declining market carrier like Azul has jumped in with lots of seats and low fares.
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RJNUT
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:38 pm

as menetioned before, here , Brazilian visas are a PAIN to get!
 
dcajet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 11):
as menetioned before, here , Brazilian visas are a PAIN to get!

Ask Brazilians how easy is it to get a US visa? Not to mention that the petitioner MUST be present at the US Consulate for the interview which means the cost of moving xx number of people to the nearest US Consulate - which could be thousands of miles away and the processing fee per person of more than $100 which is not refundable in case the visa is denied.

Now, which visa is more of a pain to get, you were saying?
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RJNUT
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 12):
which could be thousands of miles away and the processing fee per person of more than $100 which is not refundable in case the visa is denied.

Now, which visa is more of a pain to get, you were saying?

WHO CARES, the point being the visa issue deflates traffic numbers to what they could be!

Sheesh
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Yes as mentioned on their earnings call last week, Delta is seeing weakness in Brazil and would reduce capacity by 15%.
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 10):
Brazil has tanked. Market is more Brazil point of sale. Their currency is weaker, and along with host of other negative economic indicators which drives down demand.

Interestingly I saw an article today reporting that 30% of passengers flying DL to Brasil are connecting onto Gol. That is a pretty substantial figure given how few DL frequencies there are to various Brasilian cities (compared to AA).
 
SCQ83
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:38 pm

Can't Brazilians get 10-year tourist visa to the US?

I know some non-ESTA nationalities around the world can.
 
deltairlines
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 11):

as menetioned before, here , Brazilian visas are a PAIN to get!

I actually didn't mind the process for mine when I got it back in January.

Went to the post office to get my money order (ok, a small hassle, but the post office is 1/4 mile from my apartment), stopped by FedEx Office on the way back to get my photos taken, hopped on the subway for a stop to the office, turned in the papers and was out in 10 minutes. From time I started to being done was maybe 90 minutes (including getting breakfast). Had my passport back three days later.

Of course, it does help that I am in very close proximity to a consulate.

Now Chinese visas...
 
AF086
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:45 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 12):
Ask Brazilians how easy is it to get a US visa? Not to mention that the petitioner MUST be present at the US Consulate for the interview which means the cost of moving xx number of people to the nearest US Consulate - which could be thousands of miles away and the processing fee per person of more than $100 which is not refundable in case the visa is denied.

USD 160 per person to be exact. Which is roughly 470 BRL. If you consider that Brazil's minimal wage is around BRL 800 you can imagine how steep the visa price is for Brazilians. Plus the traveller needs two days for the whole thing to go through: 1 day for pictures and fingerprints and another day for paperwork and interview. And yes: you have to be there in person. People at Manaus, which has AA service to MIA btw, have to travel to Brasília 1200 mi away to get their visas. So on top of those 470 BRL you must add plane tickets and hotels. All of that just to get the US Visa.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 15):
Can't Brazilians get 10-year tourist visa to the US?

I know some non-ESTA nationalities around the world can.

Yes they can get 10 year B1/B2 visas.
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burnsie28
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:16 pm

A lot of the issue for all carriers is the strengthening of the US Dollar.
 
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andrefranca
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 15):
Can't Brazilians get 10-year tourist visa to the US?

Since 2011 I guess...

Quoting dcajet (Reply 12):
Ask Brazilians how easy is it to get a US visa?

Not difficult if you earn more than 3 minimum wages... I mean, you have to go there in person to get finger printed etc... but this is mostly first timers.... my grandma renewed hers, she even didn't see the consul....

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
If you consider that Brazil's minimal wage is around BRL 800 you can imagine how steep the visa price is for Brazilians.

People earning minimum wages don't get the visa unless they are very lucky and the consul officer was having a great day, even if they are 100% sponsored their chances are very slim....

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
People at Manaus, which has AA service to MIA btw, have to travel to Brasília 1200 mi away to get their visas

I'm from MAO but we opt to fly to GRU, cheaper, quicker.... and great shopping!

[Edited 2015-04-29 15:43:10]
 
rockyracoon
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:09 pm

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 18):
A lot of the issue for all carriers is the strengthening of the US Dollar.

  


Less shopping trips to Florida.
Airports I've flown from: CVG PIT MWO PHL PHX ORD DCA IAD MIA TPA MCO FLL ATL DTW DFW SJC LAX DEN SLC LAS HNL LIH OGG YVR GYE MUC ICN NRT PVG SHA SZX MNL PPS CRK BKK DMK KBV EOH MDE CLO CTG SMR BOG ACD MEX CUN MID AUA SAL RTB
 
AF086
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 18):
A lot of the issue for all carriers is the strengthening of the US Dollar.

But better for americans to visit Brazil.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 19):
eople earning minimum wages don't get the visa unless they are very lucky and the consul officer was having a great day, even if they are 100% sponsored their chances are very slim....

I am aware of that but you agree that USD 160 plus the costs to get to the consulate really can make people go somewhere else. The strengthening of the US Dollar related to the Euro is making some Brazilians change the US to Europe as their destination, where they can go visa-free.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 19):
I'm from MAO but we opt to fly to GRU, cheaper, quicker.... and great shopping!

More expensive than flying nonstop from MAO? Going via GRU nearly doubles the flown distance! Interesting.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 19):
Not difficult if you earn more than 3 minimum wages... I mean, you have to go there in person to get finger printed etc... but this is mostly first timers.... my grandma renewed hers, she even didn't see the consul....

Right but if you could mail your docs like when americans can do when they apply for Brazilian visas it could become a bit more appealing for some people to get the visa.

Anyway nothing beats visa-free travelling. If/when Brazil enters US' Visa Waiver Program (which would lift the need for americans to get the Brazilian visa) I can see traffic figures going up. It's a no-brainer.
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rg787
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 4:39 am

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 19):
People earning minimum wages don't get the visa unless they are very lucky and the consul officer was having a great day, even if they are 100% sponsored their chances are very slim....

Not really. My father uses a wheelchair and when we travel we take our helper with us. In ten years or so, there have been three people helping us that got visas to the US. It expires in less time, mine was a 10 years one and theirs was often 6 months or so.

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 19):
Not difficult if you earn more than 3 minimum wages... I mean, you have to go there in person to get finger printed etc... but this is mostly first timers.... my grandma renewed hers, she even didn't see the consul....

Well, it is quite difficult actually because you have to pay these 800 reais, then you have transportation to the nearest consulate (which can be quite expensive), then you have hotels and everything associated with your stay, and on top of it all you loose 2 days of work. Quite a hassle if you ask me, even if it was for free. I got an australian visa last year and it was all email based, much simpler.
 
815Oceanic
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 5:30 am

Alright so can we all agree it's terrible for brazilians to get a U.S. visa? Why is it so hard?
 
rg787
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 1:28 pm

Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 23):
Alright so can we all agree it's terrible for brazilians to get a U.S. visa? Why is it so hard?

First of all you have to pay, and it is expensive. Secondly, you have to go to the embassy/consulate in person for the interview and even after this, a lot of people don't get approval. Remember, Brazil is a huge country and there are not so many consulates, so visiting one may also be expensive.


Anyway, back on topic, in the case of BSB, wouldn't it be better if they got the 757 back and maintained the frequencies?
 
roseflyer
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:00 pm

If Brazil eased its visa policy, then with the drop in currency value, I'd suspect a large in flow of tourists. Brazil is very expensive for a tourist, so an exchange rate benefit could drive up the numbers.

The problem is that the visas are difficult. It can take over a month to get the appointment necessary to get your visa submitted. Agencies can take care of it, but the process is long because some consulates only issue a certain number of visas. If someone who is thinking of a vacation to Brazil learns of the $160 in cost plus month long process, they might think twice and visit a different country.

I understand the concept of reciprocity. The United States makes visas very difficult depending on country. There is a reason behind it. The United States will look at a visa waiver arrangement for any country where visa violations/overstays is less than 3% of arrivals. For countries less than 3% like Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, EU, etc, the visa process is simple. Brazil's violation rate far exceeds that. If the violation rate for Americans to Brazil was any where near 3%, I would understand the complex and time consuming process, but it is not. Brazil is just creating difficult due to reciprocity and revenge. This is hurting their own economy and why Delta has to cut flights. With the exchange rate and Brazilian economy, flying to the United States is getting more difficult for Brazilians. If visas were easy, this drop and demand would easily be covered by an influx of tourists going to the other direction. Unfortunately government doesn't understand this.
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winGl3t
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):

Anyway, back on topic, in the case of BSB, wouldn't it be better if they got the 757 back and maintained the frequencies?

From what I heard DL 'long-haul' 752 now have flat bed and it add lots of weight compared to the previous configuration. It would have payload restriction flying BSB-ATL-BSB.
 
SCQ83
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:19 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
If Brazil eased its visa policy, then with the drop in currency value, I'd suspect a large in flow of tourists. Brazil is very expensive for a tourist, so an exchange rate benefit could drive up the numbers.

Well I am not sure that would happen.

You can enter visa-on arrival with any EU passport, and tourism to Brazil from Europe is what it is. And even today that the Real has lost so much value to the Euro, even if the Euro has lost ground to many currencies (which means that Brazil is one of the very few countries that is cheaper for an European to travel to today compared to 1 year ago, while others like Dubai - USD based - are significant more expensive).

It is a long flight from either the US or Europe, it is not very accommodating to foreign tourism (in terms of infrastructure, language, hotels) and unsafety is a major concern.
 
captainstefan
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:35 pm

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):
Anyway, back on topic, in the case of BSB, wouldn't it be better if they got the 757 back and maintained the frequencies?

My guess is that the 757s are more valuable being utilized on other routes, especially the summer seasonal transatlantic ones.
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dcajet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 6:55 pm

Brazil will not the drop the visa requirement for US citizens until the US does the same for Brazilian citizens. That is the way Itamaraty approaches the situation and it is a very respectable stance. And it is not a US specific policy; years ago, ~ 10 or so, when many Brazilians landing in Madrid were refused entry into the EU due to lack of financial evidence that they were planning to return to their country, Itamaraty responded with almost draconian measures for Spain's citizens arriving in Brazil, asking for the same items that its citizens were asked of in Barajas - financial evidence, lodging proof and medical insurance. Which was unfair to Spaniards as Spain was only enforcing the EU rules - but that is the way sometimes things go in these matters of immigration, which still need to evolve if we truly are going to live in one globalized world - it is ok for goods and ideas to move around freely, but people are another matter altogether!

True, they could be a bit more pragmatic like say, Argentina, where there is a reciprocity entry fee of $160 - or whatever much the US charges for a visa application - and it is good for ten years, just as B-1/B-2 US visa. More conveniently, the fee is payable online before leaving the US and upon arrival in Argentina info is already in the system. So does Chile for Australian and Canadian citizens.

But to each country its own until things evolve!
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airDFW
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
Brazil is just creating difficult due to reciprocity and revenge. This is hurting their own economy and why Delta has to cut flights. With the exchange rate and Brazilian economy, flying to the United States is getting more difficult for Brazilians. If visas were easy, this drop and demand would easily be covered by an influx of tourists going to the other direction. Unfortunately government doesn't understand this.

I totally agree with this. There is pride and then there is economic benefit.

If Brazil enables visa free entry for Americans then it is Brazileans who benefit and would be a shot for their economy. There are lot of countries that makes it very easy for Americans to visit because that is where the dough is. Mexico, Jamaica to name a few.

I would love to take my wife and kids but it is too much money for the visa itself.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:52 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 29):
True, they could be a bit more pragmatic like say, Argentina, where there is a reciprocity entry fee of $160 - or whatever much the US charges for a visa application - and it is good for ten years, just as B-1/B-2 US visa.

Or, they could be pragmatic like Chile, figure out why Brazilians are overstaying, get those problems fixed, and join VWP.
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willyj
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 8:08 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 16):
I actually didn't mind the process for mine when I got it back in January.

Went to the post office to get my money order (ok, a small hassle, but the post office is 1/4 mile from my apartment), stopped by FedEx Office on the way back to get my photos taken, hopped on the subway for a stop to the office, turned in the papers and was out in 10 minutes. From time I started to being done was maybe 90 minutes (including getting breakfast). Had my passport back three days later.

Of course, it does help that I am in very close proximity to a consulate.

My experience was different.

I live in New York, and when I applied (2 months prior to my trip to Brazil), the first appointment I could get at the consulate was 24 days later. Once you get the appointment it takes up to 21 days to get your passport back (mine took 20). So I was without my passport for 6 weeks. I actually had to apply for a 2nd US passport so that I could take two business trips to Europe during that time...

It was an expensive and frustrating experience, and had I only been going for leisure reasons, I would have abandoned the trip and gone elsewhere.
 
dcajet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 31):
Or, they could be pragmatic like Chile, figure out why Brazilians are overstaying, get those problems fixed, and join VWP.

You can't compare the 2 countries, come on. They are not even in the same league! One is a medium size economy that relies in mining and food (fruits/fish) exports mainly and saw in completely opening its economy the only way to compete while the other is a major economic and industrial power, (albeit mismanaged) - the 8th economy in the world. Chile's pragmatism would be lethal for Brazil.

And besides, like VWP would be the be all end all for Brazil. They have bigger fish to fry there. Can we be a bit less US centric?

It should also be noted that VWP is a highly politicized tool the US uses to reward/punish some allies. Case in point, Argentina & Uruguay were part of VWP, then when both countries adopted a more US neutral or challenging stance, they were removed from the list, even when they are below the 3% overstays figure. So, what gives? Even though, for instance, Argentina continues to be the only extra NATO US ally in the region (TGI2015 and the (in certain aspects of her policies), horribly misguided President Kirchner is on her way out, otherwise that would go up in smoke too...)
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Cubsrule
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:22 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 33):
and saw in completely opening its economy the only way to compete

You know too much about Latin American history to make a statement like that (unless, by "Chile saw," you mean "Pinochet and friends saw").

Quoting dcajet (Reply 33):
And besides, like VWP would be the be all end all for Brazil. They have bigger fish to fry there.

I don't think VWP is a be all end all. I do think that structural economic problems that result in illegal immigration/overstays are worth fixing, which would have the added benefit of enabling VWP entry.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 33):
It should also be noted that VWP is a highly politicized tool the US uses to reward/punish some allies.

I don't see any reason Brasil wouldn't be allowed in if the numbers were there, so the Argentina/Uruguay issue seems like a red herring argument in this discussion.
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ScottB
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting dcajet (Reply 29):
it is ok for goods and ideas to move around freely, but people are another matter altogether!

Goods and ideas don't necessarily move around freely; there are enormous import tariffs on some items while the import of others is prohibited. And plenty of states control their media and internet gateways to control the exchange of ideas as well.

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):
Quoting 815Oceanic (Reply 23):
Alright so can we all agree it's terrible for brazilians to get a U.S. visa? Why is it so hard?

First of all you have to pay, and it is expensive. Secondly, you have to go to the embassy/consulate in person for the interview

It is intentionally difficult because (1) the expense of getting to the embassy or consulate excludes those who are relatively poor and thus considered more likely to overstay a tourist visa and (2) the interview is designed to ferret out those who are not traveling for tourism/business and likely attempting to illegally migrate.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
USD 160 per person to be exact. Which is roughly 470 BRL. If you consider that Brazil's minimal wage is around BRL 800 you can imagine how steep the visa price is for Brazilians.

If $160 for the visa is "steep," then the $1000+ for air fare (not to mention lodging, food and transportation in the U.S.) is astronomical. Someone who makes the minimum wage in Brazil is unlikely to be able to afford to travel to the U.S. as a tourist, even absent the cost of a visa.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
I understand the concept of reciprocity. The United States makes visas very difficult depending on country. There is a reason behind it. The United States will look at a visa waiver arrangement for any country where visa violations/overstays is less than 3% of arrivals. For countries less than 3% like Japan, Australia, New Zealand, Canada, EU, etc, the visa process is simple. Brazil's violation rate far exceeds that. If the violation rate for Americans to Brazil was any where near 3%, I would understand the complex and time consuming process, but it is not. Brazil is just creating difficult due to reciprocity and revenge. This is hurting their own economy and why Delta has to cut flights.

         The fact is that some figures put the number of Brazilian national in the United States without authorization at around 300,000. If there were thousands of Americans in Brazil illegally then it would be understandable -- but I suspect the percentage of Americans overstaying or violating visas in Brazil is probably more like 0.03% than even 3%.
 
dcajet
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:59 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
I don't see any reason Brasil wouldn't be allowed in if the numbers were there, so the Argentina/Uruguay issue seems like a red herring argument in this discussion.

I disagree. The fact that since Dilma Rousseff cancelled her state visit to the US last year as a sign of displeasure when all the allegations of the US spying on her administration surfaced, the relationship between DC and Brasilia have been pretty much on automatic pilot, would make membership in the VWP a DOA initiative. It just would not happen even if the numbers were there. My point is that not only numbers drive the VWP, in fact, as we have seen with Brazil's neighbors, it is a tool to reward/punish.
Keep calm and wash your hands.
 
incitatus
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 1:36 am

Quoting dcajet (Reply 36):
My point is that not only numbers drive the VWP, in fact, as we have seen with Brazil's neighbors, it is a tool to reward/punish.

If that is true, I can't see how the US would allow Brazil to join because of their crazy foreign policy. Let's see:

1. Dilma advocates non-violence and negotiations with ISIS. She should fly into Syria and lead the way.
2. Lula's statements of support for Nicolas Maduro in Venezuela are widely circulated on the web. Check it out.
3. PT is close friends with the Cuban regime - close means CLOSE.
4. Venezuela signed an agreement with MST (Brazil's lawless peasant movement). What the heck?
5. Lula never made it to North Korea, but has hugged pretty much every other tyrant on the planet.

Israel was nice when they said Brazil was a diplomatic dwarf. Based on the current government, there should be no VWP for Brazil.
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C010T3
Posts: 1956
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 2:43 am

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 11):
as menetioned before, here , Brazilian visas are a PAIN to get!

Yes, they are. Brazilian consulates work just like any Brazilian government department, with a lot of red tape. They don't know how to work another way.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 15):
Can't Brazilians get 10-year tourist visa to the US?

Yes, they were temporarily only able to get a 5-year visa from 2003 until 2010.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 21):
More expensive than flying nonstop from MAO? Going via GRU nearly doubles the flown distance! Interesting.

I guess he meant where he likes to go to apply for the visa.

Quoting rg787 (Reply 24):
a lot of people don't get approval.

That's really a myth. The US ambassador just said herself that the refusal are lower than the threshold.

http://viagem.estadao.com.br/noticia...-do-brasil-diz-embaixadora,1678422

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
Brazil is just creating difficult due to reciprocity and revenge.
Quoting dcajet (Reply 29):
That is the way Itamaraty approaches the situation and it is a very respectable stance.

Well, federal law regulates how the country deals with visa issues. Congress would have to approve legislation in order to remove reciprocity as the policy.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 27):
You can enter visa-on arrival with any EU passport

It's not visa on arrival. EU citizens are visa-exempt.

Quoting dcajet (Reply 29):
years ago, ~ 10 or so, when many Brazilians landing in Madrid were refused entry into the EU due to lack of financial evidence that they were planning to return to their country, Itamaraty responded with almost draconian measures for Spain's citizens arriving in Brazil, asking for the same items that its citizens were asked of in Barajas - financial evidence, lodging proof and medical insurance.

Actually, it was like three years ago.

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 34):
I don't see any reason Brasil wouldn't be allowed in if the numbers were there, so the Argentina/Uruguay issue seems like a red herring argument in this discussion.

But they are! The US ambassador said it: http://viagem.estadao.com.br/noticia...-do-brasil-diz-embaixadora,1678422

I always knew Brazil would not be willing to cooperate with the US to meet all demands that are part of the VWP. The public revelation of the issue by the US ambassador is strategy to get the Brazilian public opinion to pressure Brazilian politicians.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14636
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RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 2:52 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 38):
But they are! The US ambassador said it

My Portuguese is (sadly) rusty. Does that article discuss overstays or just the rate at which visa applicants from Brasil get rejected?
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 39):
My Portuguese is (sadly) rusty. Does that article discuss overstays or just the rate at which visa applicants from Brasil get rejected?

Just the rejections.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3086
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 3:48 am

Quoting AF086 (Reply 17):
People at Manaus, which has AA service to MIA btw, have to travel to Brasília 1200 mi away to get their visas.

Had this fact influenced into the withdrawal of DL ATL-MAO in 2011 ?
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
Rafabozzolla
Posts: 988
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2000 1:27 pm

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 12:06 pm

Quoting AirDFW (Reply 30):
I would love to take my wife and kids but it is too much money for the visa itself.


If you are the kind of visitor who will spend thousands of dollars in air fare (per person) and accomodation (as a group) and thinks 160USD is too much maybe you´re not the kind of tourist the country wants. A tourist is only worth if they are willing to spend money, something Brazilian tourists do by the boatloads in the USA.

Bad for airlines, but I´m travelling to California in July (very, very high season), and some carriers are offering very reasonable fares, J included. Low demand is driving down yields, but good for pax nevertheless.
 
Cubsrule
Posts: 14636
Joined: Sat May 15, 2004 12:13 pm

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 40):
Just the rejections.

I may have to apologize for my country's ambassador, then, as it looks like she may have misled you all. Overstays matter too. Driving up the acceptance rate is great, but it's not the whole story.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 43):
I may have to apologize for my country's ambassador, then, as it looks like she may have misled you all. Overstays matter too. Driving up the acceptance rate is great, but it's not the whole story.

I'm fully aware and I don't believe she meant it that way. I don't believe the US would be pursuing this if overstays were such a huge issue.
Canada, for example, is set on facilitating Brazilian travel through eTA. Perhaps the US would go the same path.
 
airDFW
Posts: 293
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:44 pm

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 6:01 pm

Quoting Rafabozzolla (Reply 42):

If you are the kind of visitor who will spend thousands of dollars in air fare (per person) and accomodation (as a group) and thinks 160USD is too much maybe you´re not the kind of tourist the country wants. A tourist is only worth if they are willing to spend money, something Brazilian tourists do by the boatloads in the USA.

Again please note for Americans they have choices. As somebody mentioned BR consulates work just the way the Govt does. It is the hassle of putting together papers. Going to the consulate for the interviews etc. Please also note it is not just 1 * 160, it is 4 * 160, while Americans have other choices like Peru or Chile or even Argentina.

I just feel it is in Brazil's interest to open up themselves up for more tourists. What US does or not does, it really should not matter.
 
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andrefranca
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting AF086 (Reply 21):
I am aware of that but you agree that USD 160 plus the costs to get to the consulate really can make people go somewhere else. The strengthening of the US Dollar related to the Euro is making some Brazilians change the US to Europe as their destination, where they can go visa-free.

My case, booked a 770 USD return to Frankfurt this summer with DE ! Not worth visiting the US right now!

Quoting AF086 (Reply 21):
More expensive than flying nonstop from MAO? Going via GRU nearly doubles the flown distance! Interesting.

Nationaly I mean, BSB may be close, but remember we only have 2 airlines on that route.

Quoting AF086 (Reply 21):
Right but if you could mail your docs like when americans can do when they apply for Brazilian visas it could become a bit more appealing for some people to get the visa.

Australia and Canada are doing everything online now, if the US changes, Brazil will follow.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 25):
The problem is that the visas are difficult. It can take over a month to get the appointment necessary to get your visa submitted. Agencies can take care of it, but the process is long because some consulates only issue a certain number of visas. If someone who is thinking of a vacation to Brazil learns of the $160 in cost plus month long process, they might think twice and visit a different country.

True....

Quoting dcajet (Reply 29):
Brazil will not the drop the visa requirement for US citizens until the US does the same for Brazilian citizens. That is the way Itamaraty approaches the situation and it is a very respectable stance. And it is not a US specific policy; years ago, ~ 10 or so, when many Brazilians landing in Madrid were refused entry into the EU due to lack of financial evidence that they were planning to return to their country, Itamaraty responded with almost draconian measures for Spain's citizens arriving in Brazil, asking for the same items that its citizens were asked of in Barajas - financial evidence, lodging proof and medical insurance. Which was unfair to Spaniards as Spain was only enforcing the EU rules - but that is the way sometimes things go in these matters of immigration, which still need to evolve if we truly are going to live in one globalized world - it is ok for goods and ideas to move around freely, but people are another matter altogether!

I think it's fair... I actually know people who had money, had the return tickets, had their studies paid in Spain, and were turned back in MAD without any explanation, I think Brazil should be tougher on certain nationalities, when I worked with immigration dpt in MAO I helped them sending back a hell of people, I don't want people to come to my country playing to be a tourist and staying to work! it happens on a daily basis, bottom line: it's not only us doing it abroad!

Quoting AirDFW (Reply 30):
If Brazil enables visa free entry for Americans then it is Brazileans who benefit and would be a shot for their economy. There are lot of countries that makes it very easy for Americans to visit because that is where the dough is. Mexico, Jamaica to name a few.

Forget about it, as stated, it's not the country's interest to waive visas for nations that don't make it easy for us, NOW that Brazil is waiving visa for certain caribbean nations that have waived for us agggeeees ago!

Quoting incitatus (Reply 37):
Israel was nice when they said Brazil was a diplomatic dwarf. Based on the current government, there should be no VWP for Brazil.

Maybe in 20 years or so....
 
C010T3
Posts: 1956
Joined: Wed Jul 19, 2006 5:48 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Fri May 01, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting andrefranca (Reply 46):
I think Brazil should be tougher on certain nationalities, when I worked with immigration dpt in MAO I helped them sending back a hell of people, I don't want people to come to my country playing to be a tourist and staying to work! it happens on a daily basis, bottom line: it's not only us doing it abroad!

It's unfortunate that people with that kind of mentality are able to work in border control.
 
User avatar
andrefranca
Posts: 904
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:10 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Sat May 02, 2015 12:45 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 47):
It's unfortunate that people with that kind of mentality are able to work in border control.

It's unfortunate when some people come to a country with a legitimate reason and all paperwork in order and get turned back with no legal reason or explanation, nothing wrong was being done, it happened to me, to friends and to other random people I met, some were guilty and not playing by the rules, most were not. Hopefully it will never happen to you! if it does... you'll know what I'm talking about..... it's the "hunger games" darling.... no tea, no shade.

[Edited 2015-05-01 17:50:08]
 
Byrdluvs747
Posts: 2540
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:25 am

RE: Delta Changes In Brazil

Sat May 02, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 47):
It's unfortunate that people with that kind of mentality are able to work in border control.

I would think those are exactly the type of people you want in border control. Otherwise what is the point of having immigration control?
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