Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
threeifbyair
Posts: 941
Joined: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:44 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting yeelep (Reply 40):
About a third of the planes that RON in SEA don't have any maintenance scheduled, they just sit there.

Thanks for that info. Looks like there is scope to add some red-eyes or outstation RONs if so desired.
 
roseflyer
Posts: 9602
Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2004 9:34 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 1:24 pm

Quoting md3 (Reply 15):

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):

What about return? AS planning a 2300 or later LAX-SEA?

AS471 LAXSEA 2355-0235


Having a connection is good, although arriving home after a vacation in a sleep deprived state at 3am like that will turn off more than a few.

Quoting as739x (Reply 19):

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 6):

Unfortunatly with those stage length of flights, there is not much else you can do. AS has rarely overnighted aircraft south of the border, which would be the only other option.


It is just my opinion, but depending on O/D will cause the route to fail. AS does not need to overnight airplanes to Mexico, but they do need to do something different for Costa Rica. THey need to overnight he plane down there or consider a red eye southbound. Both options have drawbacks, but AS is competing with itself for the beach market from the Pacific Northwest. I guess AS thinks people will stick to Hawaii and Mexico and that there is enough of a market from LAX O/D. With new routes, AS has to think about utilization and scheduling.

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 25):

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 23):
2:35am landing into SEA? Probably more painful than dealing with a redeye, especially if you want to go to work the next morning

We do it from ANC. They will live.


Being sleep deprived with unpleasant red eye flights and departure/arrival times is a right of passage in Alaska. In my opinion AS needs to take advantage of their network. If the flight leaves before 10am from LAX, they lose the feed from the Pacific Northwest, ideally a flight should leave around 11am so that they can take advantage of all the feed from the smaller cities in the northwest including Alaska connecting through SEA. Alternatively, a late afternoon or evening southbound departure works too. This requires overnighting the airplane though.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 2:12 pm

I love how everyone on A.net is smarter than the route planning department at Alaska
 
MVAair
Posts: 298
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2015 5:59 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 2:18 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 47):

PA wasn't going under because it was too small, but poorly allocated. They were a global airline in 1985 and a domestic one but with poor network. Also givng the 767 ETOPs in 1984 hurt a lot. It allowed overflying of JFK.

Quoting BravoOne (Reply 48):

One word Braniff??? They went under due to reckless growth in the two years right after deregulation.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 49):

Island Air is in trouble due to high costs and low loads. Growing would only make it worse. Aloha is an example of dying because of growth.
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5454
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting MVAair (Reply 52):
I love how everyone on A.net is smarter than the route planning department at Alaska

Oh...I'm sure AS has thought this over and had reasons why they did what they did. But if we didn't express our opinions on this forum, right or wrong, it would be boring and you couldn't respond to anything. :-P

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 51):
What about return? AS planning a 2300 or later LAX-SEA?

AS471 LAXSEA 2355-0235

That would be like an ANC-SEA flight. Does AS have a 5am or 5:30am flight out of SEA? US and UA have flights earlier than 6am out of SEA now.
 
2travel2know2
Posts: 2990
Joined: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:01 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 5:19 pm

Quoting threeifbyair (Reply 31):
2) Later afternoon: 1400-1600 -- RON, Morning: 0700-0900

Then how about late afternoon LAX-SJO and red-eyes SJO-LAX, arriving LAX around 0500?
Doesn't AS have early morning departures out of LAX?
I'm not on CM's payroll.
 
surfdog75
Posts: 272
Joined: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:39 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 5:29 pm

I have a feeling Southwest has their eye on Central America. Alaska may be trying to get a jump on them. DL seems to be doing really well with LAX-Central America so far. Enough traffic for all, I'm sure.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5550
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 8:27 pm

There are MANY factors that cx have to consider when creating schedules such as availability of aircraft, crew, gates (on both ends of a flight), ground crew, catering, as well as field conditions (inc temps and curfews), connection opportunities, crew and equipment safety, and probably dozens of other things that none of us are even aware of.

As has been said, there are reasons why the network planners who are paid to create schedules, have done what they've done. We may not understand those reasons, or like the results. Heck, AS may not like the results!

I do know that I have seen AS schedules change greatly (by 10-12 hours) not long after a new flight has been started, as circumstances, availability, and needs change.

Let's not get too upset about what has been announced. It could be very different soon...

bb
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 8:31 pm

Alaska Airlines is acting aggressively in Liberia due to the coming AS LAX-LIR 4x weekly whereas DL LAX-LIR is just 1x weekly.
Same thoughts when B6 JFK-LIR started as 4x weekly and it's operating up to 7x weekly sometimes. B6 JFK-LIR is 3x weekly at this time.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Fri May 01, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 56):

I have a feeling Southwest has their eye on Central America.

You don't need to have a feeling. Southeast has said this publicly a few times.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 6:58 am

Quoting EA CO AS (Reply 35):
You mean growing consistently and profitably? Isn't that exactly what they're doing right now?

Have been for decades now, they also never have shed a penny in debt via the Bankruptcy courts, it's pretty fair to say, AS has a lot going for it & although a few routes fail, I'm willing to bet the ratio of started routes to routes discontinued is a small number.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 49):
Also, SJC-SMF...Does that count?

Only if we can include GTF-HLN & PUW-LWS

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 54):
Does AS have a 5am or 5:30am flight out of SEA?

Yes, IIRC 5:20am

Quoting surfdog75 (Reply 56):

I have a feeling Southwest has their eye on Central America. Alaska may be trying to get a jump on them.

One of the newer guys in the AS route planning dept was a recent acquisition fresh from WN, so I'm sure he's got some great suggestions for AS, beating WN to the punch in a few places.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
robt760
Posts: 81
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 6:08 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 23):
Personally - depending on what happens with fuel prices and AA's fortunes at LAX - I would not be surprised to see AA enter/reenter some of the LAX-Central America markets (SJO, SAL, GUA) in the future.

They are starting LAX-BZE next month

http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/newflights.jsp
 
commavia
Posts: 11489
Joined: Mon Apr 25, 2005 2:30 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 2:07 pm

Quoting robt760 (Reply 61):
They are starting LAX-BZE next month

http://www.aa.com/i18n/urls/newflights.jsp

Yes - I was referring to additional routes in addition to the soon-to-start BZE weekend flights, including returning to the SJO and SAL markets (both of which AA flew in the last decade).
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting robt760 (Reply 61):
They are starting LAX-BZE next month

AA LAX-BZE 2x weekly is following DL LAX-BZE 1x weekly which started in December 2013.
Perhaps Alaska Airlines might study carefully this schedule allocation.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5454
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 60):
Yes, IIRC 5:20am
Quoting md3 (Reply 15):
AS471 LAXSEA 2355-0235

So this means that SEA is connected to the new Costa Rica services? That would be great! That also opens the door for other night time arrivals into LAX to connect. You just never know, those flights could be popular.
 
avi8
Posts: 1275
Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2011 1:36 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 9:11 pm

LAX-GUA has a big chunk of O/D so I wouldn't be surprised if either AA or AS decided to start the route.
avi8
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5240
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 9:16 pm

As others have pointed out if AS needs to tweak a few arrivals to make their connections flow better they will.
 
PlanesNTrains
Posts: 9524
Joined: Tue Feb 01, 2005 4:19 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 10:07 pm

But why wouldn't they do that now? Maybe it's normal for carriers to move things around like that but I'd think if they are announcing Costa Rica that they'd want to have the strong feed from SEA at the outset.

-Dave
-Dave


MAX’d out on MAX threads. If you are starting a thread, and it’s about the MAX - stop. There’s already a thread that covers it.
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5240
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 67):

But why wouldn't they do that now? Maybe it's normal for carriers to move things around like that but I'd think if they are announcing Costa Rica that they'd want to have the strong feed from SEA at the outset.

-Dave

Sometimes all these 5/10/20 minute micro schedule adjustments are just not made (or even found) until after the fact. It's just the reality of aircraft scheduling. For all we know these adjustments will load with the Costa Rica flights in the next sabre schedule update, but these will not be announced or show up in the OAG reports.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5550
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 67):
But why wouldn't they do that now? Maybe it's normal for carriers to move things around like that but I'd think if they are announcing Costa Rica that they'd want to have the strong feed from SEA at the outset.

Reply 57 might offer some suggestions...

bb
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 67):
Maybe it's normal for carriers to move things around like that but I'd think if they are announcing Costa Rica that they'd want to have the strong feed from SEA at the outset.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 64):
So this means that SEA is connected to the new Costa Rica services? That would be great! That also opens the door for other night time arrivals into LAX to connect

Alaska Airlines is not discovering the Seattle-Costa Rica market.
Their competitors have been supplying affordable connections every day:

Star Alliance: UA SEA-IAH plus UA IAH-SJO.
SkyTeam: DL SEA-LAX plus DL LAX-SJO.
OneWorld: AA SEA-DFW plus AA DFW-SJO.



Washington State is not a strong O&D market for Costa Rica.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
32andBelow
Posts: 5240
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 2:54 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 11:57 pm

I think you can definitely pull a few loyal AS flyers on a SEA/LAX/Costa Rica routing. The redeye ANC/LAX flight would connect great with this flight(when it is operating).
 
User avatar
Tomassjc
Topic Author
Posts: 730
Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2010 6:38 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sat May 02, 2015 11:59 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 70):

Washington State is not a strong O&D market for Costa Rica.

Then it makes sense that the schedule is focused on the LA market. It's nice see some stations besides SEA getting a little AS love!

Tomas SJC
When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward -Leonardo DaVinci
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sun May 03, 2015 12:04 am

The strongest VFR market from Costa Rica came from South Florida and New York City area.

[Edited 2015-05-02 17:07:23]
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"
 
User avatar
RWA380
Posts: 5759
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2005 10:51 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sun May 03, 2015 4:46 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 64):
So this means that SEA is connected to the new Costa Rica services? That would be great! That also opens the door for other night time arrivals into LAX to connect. You just never know, those flights could be popular.

In my opinion, AS should run it as a through flight SJO-LAX-SEA & SEA-LAX-SJO. LAX based crew I'd expect.
707 717 720 727-1/2 737-1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9 747-1/2/3/4 757-2/3 767-2/3/4 777-2/3 DC8 DC9 MD80/2/7/8 D10-1/3/4 M11 L10-1/2/5 A300/310/320
AA AC AQ AS BA BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HG HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN WP YS 8M
 
wedgetail737
Posts: 5454
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2003 8:44 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sun May 03, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 74):
In my opinion, AS should run it as a through flight SJO-LAX-SEA & SEA-LAX-SJO. LAX based crew I'd expect.

I completely agree, although there would some limited connections through SEA unless they are willing to stay in SEA overnight.

I also find it interesting that AS as two flights to Costa Rica on Saturdays.
 
User avatar
yellowtail
Posts: 3938
Joined: Fri Jun 17, 2005 3:46 am

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sun May 03, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting SJOtoLIR (Reply 63):
AA LAX-BZE 2x weekly is following DL LAX-BZE 1x weekly which started in December 2013.
Perhaps Alaska Airlines might study carefully this schedule allocation.

As a said in another thread, one issue is crew time. most LAX-CentAm flights need a crew change at the southern end (esp if its a redeye). DL, AA etc benefit from having a daily from another city (like ATL, MIA, DFW) so it is easy for them to deadhead in crews for a 1Xweekly. AS does not have that luxury, hence the 4Xweek to CR.
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
 
SJOtoLIR
Posts: 3123
Joined: Thu Jul 19, 2007 12:41 pm

RE: AS To Start LAX-Costa Rica And LAX-BWI Service

Sun May 03, 2015 9:16 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 76):
AS does not have that luxury, hence the 4Xweek to CR.

You have a good point.
That being said, the possibility of the spread of AS in other Central American cities is rather limited, unless the airline would support a 4x weekly service.
From Panama City and San Salvador, their competitors are operating up to 3x daily flights to Los Angeles.

Regards.
"Goin' up to the spirit in the sky"

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos