According to a post on instagram made by AA. American will begin 787-8 service to NRT from ORD beginning on August 18.

Reservations will open this Sunday, May 3rd.


Updates to come


Congrats to NRT, ORD, and AA!


-Miami   

[Edited 2015-04-30 10:53:08]

Yep - had seen elsewhere some weeks ago that this was coming. I believe it is also returning to daily.

This was not at all unexpected, but great news. I'm going to assume they will still be using Dallas crews for this flight?

Is this new service or just a new airplane on the route?

Quoting nc3rd (Reply 3): Is this new service or just a new airplane on the route?

Swap from 772 equipment.

AA153
30APR DPTR ARVL MEALS EQP ELPD ACCUM MILES SM
MCO ORD 740A 934A B /B /F 738 2.54 2.54 991 N
ARR-TERMINAL 3
ORD NRT 135P 440P‡1 LD/LD/LD 777 13.05 20.00 6283 N
DEP-TERMINAL 3 ARR-TERMINAL 2
ONEWORLD

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 2): This was not at all unexpected, but great news. I'm going to assume they will still be using Dallas crews for this flight?

Does this mean we'll have domestic 788 flights btwn DFW and ORD
like we did for awhile with their 777's?

So its a downgauge. I am curious to know what UA, NH and JL use on the route...

So they are rightsizing the route?

Quoting United787 (Reply 6): So its a downgauge. I am curious to know what UA, NH and JL use on the route...

UL flies the 744
NH flies the 77W
JL flies the 77W

Quoting United787 (Reply 6): So its a downgauge. I am curious to know what UA, NH and JL use on the route...

UA uses 744 with those nice projector screens in economy. NH has a nice 77W, I think so does JAL.

NH has some 77W with 3-4-3 in economy so whether you'll end up with 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 is a gamble.

JAL J has more privacy, but some can call it claustrophobic (depends on your perspective). UA gives you junk 2-4-2 on LD but nice cosy 2-2 on upper deck.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 7): So they are rightsizing the route?

This route has been begging for 788 for the longest time - daily 788 is far better for the business traveler than 5x weekly 777

(now cue the choir to remind us that JAL JV means AA was already daily)

Quoting United787 (Reply 6): So its a downgauge

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 7): So they are rightsizing the route?

Very interesting use of semantics... what if I say they are improving the on board experience with an state of the art plane??  

ANA 2xB77W
JAL 1xB77W
UAL 1xB744

[Edited 2015-04-30 12:10:21]

Quoting masgniw (Reply 8): NH flies the 77W

To be clear... NH has TWO 77W daily.

So maybe with the down time 787 will do a dfw-ord trip....

So where does the 777 go?

Awesome. Can't wait to see it at ORD. Hoping Miami gets one soon as well.

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 13): So maybe with the down time 787 will do a dfw-ord trip....

That would be great

[Edited 2015-04-30 13:52:02]

UA/NH really have a stranglehold on this route. The disparity between them and AA/JL is large.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 10): This route has been begging for 788 for the longest time - daily 788 is far better for the business traveler than 5x weekly 777

Absolutely, but ultimately it means a downgauge over when it was a daily 77E.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 9): UA uses 744 with those nice projector screens in economy.

UA is still using those CRT projectors? I thought only N194UA (the non-refitted charter aircraft) still has the projectors. All of the others were supposed to be switched to flat panels on the bulkhead (not that those are a whole lot better). Those 744 were the turds in Y but they are not so bad compared to 10 abreast Y on a 777.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 16): UA/NH really have a stranglehold on this route. The disparity between them and AA/JL is large.

3x daily versus 2x daily ... they have a slight advantage but I wouldn't call it "stranglehold" just yet. For all participants it's a JV hub-to-hub so there's no disadvantage for anyone from that regard.

Quoting AADC10 (Reply 17): UA is still using those CRT projectors? I thought only N194UA (the non-refitted charter aircraft) still has the projectors. All of the others were supposed to be switched to flat panels on the bulkhead (not that those are a whole lot better). Those 744 were the turds in Y but they are not so bad compared to 10 abreast Y on a 777.

Maybe they have, but even if that TV is playing movies on 4K resolution, it still feels weird that in this day and age we're still watching shared screen movies on 14 hour flights.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 18): 3x daily versus 2x daily ... they have a slight advantage but I wouldn't call it "stranglehold" just yet. For all participants it's a JV hub-to-hub so there's no disadvantage for anyone from that regard.

It's not just 3x daily versus 2x, it's close to double the seats too.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 18): Maybe they have, but even if that TV is playing movies on 4K resolution, it still feels weird that in this day and age we're still watching shared screen movies on 14 hour flights.

All UA 744s now have Wi-Fi, in-seat power, and streaming entertainment on personal devices.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 9): NH has some 77W with 3-4-3 in economy so whether you'll end up with 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 is a gamble.

I don't believe NH operates 10-abreast 77Ws. Certainly not outside of Japan.

tortugamon

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 9): NH has some 77W with 3-4-3 in economy so whether you'll end up with 3-3-3 or 3-4-3 is a gamble.

They also have the uncommon 2-4-3 layout on their 77Ws.

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 18): uoting AADC10 (Reply 17): UA is still using those CRT projectors? I thought only N194UA (the non-refitted charter aircraft) still has the projectors. All of the others were supposed to be switched to flat panels on the bulkhead (not that those are a whole lot better). Those 744 were the turds in Y but they are not so bad compared to 10 abreast Y on a 777. Maybe they have, but even if that TV is playing movies on 4K resolution, it still feels weird that in this day and age we're still watching shared screen movies on 14 hour flights.

All of the 744s in mainline service have flat panels in Y....

If you don't want to watch what everyone else is watching on the overhead system bring your device and use the streaming video system...there is more content on the streaming video system than even the AVOD systems have.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 19): It's not just 3x daily versus 2x, it's close to double the seats too.

It seems to me that when it comes to competitiveness and attracting high-yield business, network breadth and schedule presence matter far more than the sheer number of seats in a given market (particularly when, as is almost always the case, the vast majority of seats in any given longhaul market are in Y, anyway). In this case, the United/ANA JV will offer three daily flights each way against two for the AA/JAL JV. Personally, I wouldn't exactly call that a "stranglehold" disparity.

For a long time AA has been flying 777 on routes that were probably needing a 767 but needed the range of the 777 as the 767 can't fly as far. Asia from DFW and ORD definitely are too far for a 767, so the 787-8 is the solution smaller but with a LONG range.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 25): For a long time AA has been flying 777 on routes that were probably needing a 767 but needed the range of the 777 as the 767 can't fly as far. Asia from DFW and ORD definitely are too far for a 767, so the 787-8 is the solution smaller but with a LONG range.

Absolutely. As has been long expected and predicted by many, AA appears to - smartly - be steadily transitioning multiple Asian markets to 787s. Personally, I continue to believe that within a few years, virtually all of AA's Asia routes - with the exception of DFW-NRT and possibly DFW-ICN and ORD-NRT - will be year-round 787s. It makes total sense - the 787s economics and configuration is far more appropriately suited to these markets (given their competitive dynamics and stage length) and AA's position in them (smaller and less established than other carriers).

Quoting commavia (Reply 26): As has been long expected and predicted by many, AA appears to - smartly - be steadily transitioning multiple Asian markets to 787s. Personally, I continue to believe that within a few years, virtually all of AA's Asia routes - with the exception of DFW-NRT and possibly DFW-ICN and ORD-NRT - will be year-round 787s. It makes total sense - the 787s economics and configuration is far more appropriately suited to these markets (given their competitive dynamics and stage length) and AA's position in them (smaller and less established than other carriers

Where will AA place all the 777 flying to Asia now ? More flights to Europe by 777 from AA hubs or we could finally AA 777 flying from PHL and CLT to LHR and other Atlantic destinations.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27): More flights to Europe by 777 from AA hubs or we could finally AA 777 flying from PHL and CLT to LHR and other Atlantic destinations.

My personal expectation is that yes, we'll see more of them go to Europe (including, I expect, both PHL-LHR and CLT-LHR) in the northern summer and to South America in the northern winter - especially once they're all reconfigured as 2-class.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 5): Does this mean we'll have domestic 788 flights btwn DFW and ORD like we did for awhile with their 777's?

I did see DFW-ORD on 12 June using a 788. I looked a month ago for the same date and there were none.

Quoting United787 (Reply 6): So its a downgauge.

Be careful calling this a downguage that term only applies to UA's LAX-NRT and LAX-PVG route.   

I do wonder if once the 788 is on this route will AA return the route to daily or still keep it at 5x weekly? Also will any of AA's 788's be 3 class cabin or only 2 class I remember all the dire predictions made when UA downguaged both LAX to NRT/PVG to a 788's because of the lost of first class when most other competitors have first class so I wonder do those same predictions apply to AA in the ORD-NRT market.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 11): Very interesting use of semantics... what if I say they are improving the on board experience with an state of the art plane??  ANA 2xB77W JAL 1xB77W UAL 1xB744

I like the way you described it as an improved on board experience which is absolutely true when compared to the cabin in AA's non-refurbished 777 but as AA continues their refurbishment both the 772ER and 787 will probably have close to similar layouts so is this move to the 788 temporary while AA refurbishes their 772ER's or is it more permanent?

I'm really just being sarcastic right now only because UA took so much heat when they made a similar downguage at LAX..

I thought the 787 was designed to open medium cities to larger markets. I'm not sure if AA is using their 787s to their full potential as much as JL has with Boston and San Jose. Is this a union contract thing? Where they use the 787 as a hub to hub cattle car? Why aren't they opening direct international service from smaller US cities? I find having to fly through ORD on the way to Europe or LAX to Asia from the west coast terribly inconvenient. It's about time we have more competition and direct international service out of the pacific northwest... DL is getting a little too comfortable out here.

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 31): I thought the 787 was designed to open medium cities to larger markets. I'm not sure if AA is using their 787s to their full potential as much as JL has with Boston and San Jose. Is this a union contract thing? Where they use the 787 as a hub to hub cattle car? Why aren't they opening direct international service from smaller US cities? I find having to fly through ORD on the way to Europe or LAX to Asia from the west coast terribly inconvenient. It's about time we have more competition and direct international service out of the pacific northwest... DL is getting a little too comfortable out here.

They're rightsizing the route. The 787 is the right size, and has the right mix of seats, for many of AA's Asian routes (which have, generally speaking, not performed well in the past). There's no need for them to start St. Louis - Kyoto just for the sake of opening up a new market, because the 787 better serves existing routes.

I predict that all of AA's Asian routes from ORD will switch to the 788.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27): More flights to Europe by 777 from AA hubs or we could finally AA 777 flying from PHL and CLT to LHR and other Atlantic destinations.

Quoting commavia (Reply 28): My personal expectation is that yes, we'll see more of them go to Europe (including, I expect, both PHL-LHR and CLT-LHR) in the northern summer and to South America in the northern winter - especially once they're all reconfigured as 2-class.

Let's hope so! We need some more triple sevens in PHL. By more, I mean more than BA and QR.

It is very interesting that, instead of what was believed, the 787 is being used as a 772 replacement and not a 763 replacement. All the routes where it is being deployed were 772 routes, so those 772 will have to replace some 763s. Perfect for all the current deep South America 763 routes, but I have doubts, however, about the 772 being the right aircraft for some TATL routes. IMO, it is too heavy and overcapable aircraft for some JFK/PHL/MIA - Europe routes. I'm not talking about capacity, just the economics of the aircraft for such routes.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 21): I don't believe NH operates 10-abreast 77Ws. Certainly not outside of Japan.

www.seatguru.com/airlines/ANA/ANA_Boeing_777-300ER_F.php

www.ana.co.jp/international/departur...seatmap/detail.html?c=b777_300er_1

ANA has been doing this 10-abreast 777 and 9-abreast 787 for a while already

Quoting flybyguy (Reply 31): I thought the 787 was designed to open medium cities to larger markets. I'm not sure if AA is using their 787s to their full potential as much as JL has with Boston and San Jose. Is this a union contract thing? Where they use the 787 as a hub to hub cattle car? Why aren't they opening direct international service from smaller US cities? I find having to fly through ORD on the way to Europe or LAX to Asia from the west coast terribly inconvenient. It's about time we have more competition and direct international service out of the pacific northwest... DL is getting a little too comfortable out here.

I think with AA and its alliance/JV partners, you will find AA flying from its hubs to partner hubs and other cities in Asia and Europe, while its partners will fly from their hubs to AA hubs and other cities in the U.S.

For example, DFW-ICN and ORD-CDG are flown by AA, while NRT-BOS is flown by JL and LHR-AUS is flown by BA.

Quoting realsim (Reply 35): It is very interesting that, instead of what was believed, the 787 is being used as a 772 replacement and not a 763 replacement.

My assumption is that the 788 will replace 772s, where AA has had problems filling the plane regularly and making money. But, it will also replace the 763, where a route demands a better aircraft. Currently, AA flies 2 772s and a 763 on ORD-LHR. While the 772s have AVOD in every seat, the 763 doesn't. Of course, the BA flights (1 744 and 1 773) also have AVOD in every seat. So, it would make sense to replace the 763 with a 788.

Let's remember that within a few years, AA will start receiving 789s. Some routes that are switching from 772 to 788 could later upgauge to 789, if passenger demand calls for a larger airplane.

Quoting ams747757 (Reply 34): Quoting jfk777 (Reply 27): More flights to Europe by 777 from AA hubs or we could finally AA 777 flying from PHL and CLT to LHR and other Atlantic destinations. Quoting commavia (Reply 28): My personal expectation is that yes, we'll see more of them go to Europe (including, I expect, both PHL-LHR and CLT-LHR) in the northern summer and to South America in the northern winter - especially once they're all reconfigured as 2-class. Let's hope so! We need some more triple sevens in PHL. By more, I mean more than BA and QR.

Quoting realsim (Reply 35): It is very interesting that, instead of what was believed, the 787 is being used as a 772 replacement and not a 763 replacement. All the routes where it is being deployed were 772 routes, so those 772 will have to replace some 763s. Perfect for all the current deep South America 763 routes, but I have doubts, however, about the 772 being the right aircraft for some TATL routes. IMO, it is too heavy and overcapable aircraft for some JFK/PHL/MIA - Europe routes. I'm not talking about capacity, just the economics of the aircraft for such routes.

It should be noted that the A330 actually has a slightly higher seating capacity than the 772 and we haven't even brought the A330 into the discussion yet, nor the A350 which comes online in two years. The A330 product is very similar to what you would find on a 777 or a 787, the only difference is that the A330 does not yet have an MCE section. Moving A330's out of PHL in exchange for 777s really brings nothing to the table, and until Pilot SLI happens, it will cause more headaches than its worth. I do think long run TLV will become a 772 route, and that will free up two A332s at least. They could use those two aircraft to maybe upgauge a 763 somewhere or add a frequency somewhere.
As far as the 772 being too much aircraft for a lot of Europe routes...that is hogwash. JFK-LHR is still a big market, and realistically the 773 is the best airplane for that market since its the most premium heavy AC and that is big on this route. Also note that many airlines for years have operated East Coast-Europe routes on the 777 and have done very well doing so. AF, BA, DL, AA, UA, KL are a few that come to mind.

As far as the 787 being a 772 replacement, I dont see that either. DFW-PEK and DFW-PVG were always going to be 787s and the 777 was only a placeholder until they could get the aircraft on the property. As for other Asia, ICN-DFW has done very well and AA has nearly ran KE off the route so the 772 isnt going anywhere. DFW-HKG will remain a 773 for now as its doing very well as well. DFW-NRT will likely remain a 772 since its a OW route and there is no competition on the DFW end the way AA has in ORD. Longer term I look for more 787s to be based out in LAX where they could grow Asia. And like I said, the A350 comes on board in a couple of years so it will be interesting to see how that type will fit into all this as well.

Quoting ckfred (Reply 37): My assumption is that the 788 will replace 772s, where AA has had problems filling the plane regularly and making money. But, it will also replace the 763, where a route demands a better aircraft. Currently, AA flies 2 772s and a 763 on ORD-LHR. While the 772s have AVOD in every seat, the 763 doesn't. Of course, the BA flights (1 744 and 1 773) also have AVOD in every seat. So, it would make sense to replace the 763 with a 788.

I could see this. I think they mentioned something about accelerating some 763 retirements. That being said a few 763s will still be around. I would not expect this to happen anytime soon though. I think what is more likely is that the 777 freed up from NRT could be used to replace the 763 here, which would give AA three 772s on this route. Five total if you add the BA flights.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 5): Does this mean we'll have domestic 788 flights btwn DFW and ORD

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 13): So maybe with the down time 787 will do a dfw-ord trip....

As of the summer schedule (June and July, at least), AA is running 2x daily 788 service on DFW-ORD-DFW (the rest is on MD-80s). Since there are no longhaul 788 flights from ORD over the summer, it looks like this will be a dedicated plane that spends the night in DFW and then runs DFW-ORD-DFW-ORD-DFW.

Quoting realsim (Reply 35): the 787 is being used as a 772 replacement and not a 763 replacement.

The 772 is changing roles. In the old configuration it was a flagship aircraft. Now in the new configuration it's going to be new AA's designated high-density shovel for high-volume, low-yield routes. This overlaps a bit with the A330 and it will be interesting to see how AA uses the two aircraft. The 787 will be a bit more premium, albeit smaller, and I get the sense the A350 will be the same. The 77W will (has already for the most part) take over the routes that are both premium and have the volume to sustain a large aircraft.

Quoting apodino (Reply 38): As far as the 772 being too much aircraft for a lot of Europe routes...that is hogwash. JFK-LHR is still a big market, and realistically the 773 is the best airplane for that market since its the most premium heavy AC and that is big on this route. Also note that many airlines for years have operated East Coast-Europe routes on the 777 and have done very well doing so. AF, BA, DL, AA, UA, KL are a few that come to mind.

It is too much aircraft for routes from PHL that were traditionally flown with 762/752s. Even if routes like AMS, ZRH, BRU, LIS are shifted to other hubs, a 772 will likely be too much aircraft, save one or two from MIA or JFK.

The 772 might have less capacity than the 333 but it has almost 50% more premium seats (45 vs 28 on a 333).

Again, who knows what they do with the 330 configurations.

Somewhat off topic, but I still wonder - if AA really accelerates 763 retirements - with all the new widebodies coming online in the next few years - could routes like DFW-HNL and DFW-OGG see the 77E? Seems like the high density versions of these would be perfect. If UA can run 777s to Hawaii, why not AA?

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 2): This was not at all unexpected, but great news. I'm going to assume they will still be using Dallas crews for this flight

Cabin crew will be Chicago based. Don't know about the pilots.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 42): could routes like DFW-HNL and DFW-OGG see the 77E? Seems like the high density versions of these would be perfect. If UA can run 777s to Hawaii, why not AA?

Doubtful. Most if not all of the 772s UA flies to Hawaii are in a high density configuration with domestic F seats (UAs Hawaii configuration has 344 seats compared to AAs 2 class 270 seats). AA has not made any comment that they plan to develop a 772 domestic configuration subfleet and it makes little sense to fly a widebody with a flat bed premium product to a leisure destination.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 44): Doubtful. Most if not all of the 772s UA flies to Hawaii are in a high density configuration with domestic F seats (UAs Hawaii configuration has 344 seats compared to AAs 2 class 270 seats). AA has not made any comment that they plan to develop a 772 domestic configuration subfleet and it makes little sense to fly a widebody with a flat bed premium product to a leisure destination.

The Hawaii 777s have 53" pitch and 10" recline in the front cabin, which are far better than a standard "domestic F"

Most of them head to HNL, and only very select few touch OGG/KOA.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 44): Doubtful. Most if not all of the 772s UA flies to Hawaii are in a high density configuration with domestic F seats (UAs Hawaii configuration has 344 seats compared to AAs 2 class 270 seats). AA has not made any comment that they plan to develop a 772 domestic configuration subfleet and it makes little sense to fly a widebody with a flat bed premium product to a leisure destination.

Got it - didn't realize there was that big a seat discrepancy between UA and AA on that issue. Makes sense then that AA's 763s will serve Hawaii (especially from DFW) until the bitter end. Will be interesting to see what they replace them with ultimately, but that's many years from now yet!

the 787 is doing ord-dfw for training but after that it goes away for right now with ord-nrt coming on line in aug and the downtime with the plane it will prob do a dfw-ord-nrt-ord-dfw

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 45): The Hawaii 777s have 53" pitch and 10" recline in the front cabin, which are far better than a standard "domestic F"

Ok, technically, yes, it is better than a standard F seat, however no where near a 180 flat bed. I wanted to make the distinction that the ~5 UA 772s into HNL each day do not have a flat bed premium product found on international flights.

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 48):

UA flies the flat bed from SFO DEN IAD EWR, and I think occasionally from LAX too, but on other plane types.

DL also has flat bed from ATL (maybe some others too).