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audian
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Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:19 pm

Billings(BIL), Butte(BTM), Bozeman(BZN) in Montana and Idaho Falls are few cities that are close to Yellow stone national park. Can AA make money by having a 'seasonal' service to one of these cities from DFW?

I know there are visitors to Yellow stone and Glacier National Park from Texas area but has only few options. AA having strong network in OK, TX and LA states, it can offer a one stop connection to those national parks via DFW. There is a service to Jackson Hole from DFW, but it costs a fortune to buy a ticket on that route. There are other options from DL and UA with connections in SLC and DEN respectively. But these connections are also not cheap and some times inconvenient(longer transit times).

On the other side, there is East Montana and North Dakota which are the hot spots of Bakken(Shale). And there are handful of companies from Texas who are operating in those areas. There is a service to Bismarck, but it is not the heart of oil operations. My guess is AA should be able to fill the seats on a CRJ from DFW to Williston(ISN) in North Dakota.

[Edited 2015-04-30 14:21:38]

[Edited 2015-04-30 14:22:53]
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:26 pm

Not totally in line with the thread. Is it realistic for AA to add service from ORD-GFK?

Currently GFK has DL to MSP and G4 to SFB, LAS and IWA

[Edited 2015-04-30 14:29:05]
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LAXdude1023
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:29 pm

A seasonal flight to Kalispell would work nicely.

I think DFW-GEG is well within the realm of possibility too.

AA already flies DFW-BIS/FAR, not sure if there is need for more ND.
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AS739BSI
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Thu Apr 30, 2015 9:34 pm

BZN has been trying to get AA to come from DFW. UA already comes from IAH seasonally on Saturday but depends on what market is available. Yellowstone is one and AS is extending PDX seasonal service for the summer.
 
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KaiGywer
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 2:56 am

It took a subsidy from Bismarck's chamber of commerce to entice AA to come here.

American Airlines will receive a two-year, $1 million minimum revenue guarantee for the added flights in and out of Bismarck. The guarantee is being funded by private and public funds. The guarantee is meant to prevent financial losses as the airline starts up service.

The city of Bismarck received a $500,000 U.S. Department of Transportation Small Community Air Service Development Grant earlier this year. That grant will be used for half of the guaranteed funding. The other half was matched by members of the Bismarck-Mandan Chamber of Commerce. No city money will be used to fund the guarantee, Warford said.


Source: Bismarck Tribune
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HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 3:51 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
AA already flies DFW-BIS/FAR, not sure if there is need for more ND.

Doesn't AA also fly ORD-FAR?

As for Montana, it would be nice to have more service to BIL, it's a very expensive airport to fly out of if you aren't going to PDX or SEA. DL and UA really have quite the pricing control there ever since F9 pulled out.

BTM is way too small, it's a non-starter and really not any kind of destination for anybody out of state. BZN is really "the" gateway to Yellowstone but at the moment DL has it pretty much locked up.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 6:10 am

There are some things that just don't work if you don't have a Rocky Mountain hub. DFW is too far south and east.

PMUS had the third choice of mountain hubs in PHX, but their codeshares with UA was waht let them get pax in and out of DEN to MT and the Dakotas. UA in DEN and DL in SLC (and MSP) have much better access to that part of the country.
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slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 6:32 am

I think Montana in general just too long and thin from DFW. The fares tend to be pretty high but i think alot of traffic is out west and to major markets that SLC and DEN are just fine for. Also DL and UA offer multiple time options which would be tough from DFW. Its just hard to justify, i dont think the traffic is headed in the direction that DFW is really necessary. I dont see that much traffic from Montana to small cities in Texas and louisiana i just don't
 
DeltaXNA
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 9:07 am

They need to find a way to make BOI work as well. I can't imagine Idaho being that much different from Montana
 
realsim
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 2:35 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 5):
Doesn't AA also fly ORD-FAR?

Yes, 3 daily. DFW is 1 daily.
 
seatback
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 2:52 pm

Much of the traffic related to North Dakota (Brakken Shale) has dried up due to the dive in oil prices. Now is not the time
consider new service.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 4:05 pm

Quoting seatback (Reply 10):
Much of the traffic related to North Dakota (Brakken Shale) has dried up due to the dive in oil prices. Now is not the time
consider new service.

For MOT, DIK and ISN yes. BIS, GFK and FAR do not rely on the Bakken for passenger numbers.

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 8):
They need to find a way to make BOI work as well. I can't imagine Idaho being that much different from Montana

BOI is much larger than any market in Montana, or North Dakota for that matter. Its MSA is four times the size of the largest MSA in Montana, BIL. I'm fairly surprised it does not have a couple daily to DFW.
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 4:22 pm

DL has made seasonal service from ATL, LAX, and even LGA (in addition to SLC and MSP) work to a few destinations in Montana: BZN, MSO, and FCA.
 
DeltaXNA
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 8:06 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 11):

BOI is much larger than any market in Montana, or North Dakota for that matter. Its MSA is four times the size of the largest MSA in Montana, BIL. I'm fairly surprised it does not have a couple daily to DFW.
AA tried it from DFW before F was available on the CR7 and then they ended service. A couple years ago they had LAX-BOI service and it didn't work either. Now all they have is 3 daily A319's from PHX.

[

But Delta doesn't fly to BOI from ATL, but they do fly to those Montana cities, so AA may be able to make them work and not BOI.




[Edited 2015-05-01 13:09:05]
 
brons2
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 9:13 pm

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 13):
Now all they have is 3 daily A319's from PHX

To say that AA has XYZ spoke service from PHX is something this longtime AA fan is still getting used to  
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 9:37 pm

Quoting JetBlueCLT (Reply 1):
Not totally in line with the thread. Is it realistic for AA to add service from ORD-GFK?

Currently GFK has DL to MSP and G4 to SFB, LAS and IWA

We had trouble keeping UA to DEN and there was an article in the paper the other day that DL has had trouble filling the CR9s they've been sending our way. The only way I see service increasing is if the UAS park at the AFB starts really going.

I think North Dakota has cooled off for the time being. Things have settled in the Bakken due to low oil prices. That will hurt the state until it becomes economic to start pumping a bit. In the meantime though the state should take the downturn to really upgrade the airports out west. Guys are out of work, hire them to build and expand terminals, taxiways, and runways.
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dc10lover
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Fri May 01, 2015 10:36 pm

I think DFW-GEG is well within the realm of possibility too.

I think Spokane, Wa needs more air service with lower fares.
Why endure the nightmare and congestion of LAX when BUR, LGB, ONT & SNA is so much easier to fly in and out of. Same with OAK & SJC when it comes to SFO.
 
JBAirwaysFan
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Sun May 03, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting DC10LOVER (Reply 16):
I think DFW-GEG is well within the realm of possibility too.

I think Spokane, Wa needs more air service with lower fares.

So much for that Southwest Effect huh?
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ckfred
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Sun May 03, 2015 8:19 pm

Back in the days of regulation, UA used to have 1 or 2 daily roudtrips on BOI-ORD. But, I suspect that UA couldn't make money in the deregulation era, especially as WA created its SLC hub and started flying to more Midwestern and East Coast cities.

I think UA does offer Express service during the summer to Kalispell from ORD, for travelers going to Glacier National Park and elsewhere in that part of the country.

I'd love to visit Glacier, but it seems the easiest (albeit most time-consuming) way to get there is with Amtrak, since it stops at both main entrances to the park. In fact, my family is going to Rocky Mountain National Park next summer, simply because it is a reasonable drive from DEN and its frequent service to ORD.
 
panam330
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Mon May 04, 2015 1:10 am

Quoting ckfred (Reply 18):
Back in the days of regulation, UA used to have 1 or 2 daily roudtrips on BOI-ORD.

Huh? They still offer 2x daily flights ORD-BOI - either CR7 or E75, but mostly the latter.
 
Beardown91737
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Mon May 04, 2015 2:26 am

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 13):
AA tried it from DFW before F was available on the CR7 and then they ended service. A couple years ago they had LAX-BOI service and it didn't work either. Now all they have is 3 daily A319's from PHX.

If you aren't in F, that is too long a flight on a CR anything. It's OK if I am sitting next to a family member, but it is too tight to be hanging next to anyone else.

A 319 is appropriate for that stage length.
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HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Mon May 04, 2015 2:38 am

Quoting Beardown91737 (Reply 20):
If you aren't in F, that is too long a flight on a CR anything. It's OK if I am sitting next to a family member, but it is too tight to be hanging next to anyone else.

A 319 is appropriate for that stage length.

For an hour and a half flight? Come on, that's nothing. They barely have time to get to altitude, run a drink service and they are already prepping for descent. UA flies CR7s from ORD to BOI and that's literally twice the distance.
 
ericm2031
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Mon May 04, 2015 5:00 am

Does AA codeshare with AS to any of those cities? I know going through SEA/PDX may not be ideal for people coming from East, but it might be enough for them.
 
audian
Topic Author
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Mon May 04, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 22):

AA does have code sharing with AS with a connection in SEA.

But the total flight time is quite longer if you are flying from DFW or any other cities in the east.
 
cjpmaestro
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Tue May 05, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 2):
A already flies DFW-BIS/FAR, not sure if there is need for more ND.

Agree. I'm surprised that there isn't a FAR-PHX daily, especially in the fall and winter.

Quoting Audian (Thread starter):
Billings(BIL), Butte(BTM), Bozeman(BZN) in Montana and Idaho Falls are few cities that are close to Yellow stone national park. Can AA make money by having a 'seasonal' service to one of these cities from DFW?

Not that I'm on a PHX bandwagon or anything, but I could see a BIL-PHX over DFW.
 
HPRamper
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Tue May 05, 2015 7:15 am

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 24):
Not that I'm on a PHX bandwagon or anything, but I could see a BIL-PHX over DFW.

HP used to fly PHX-BIL on a CR9 up until sometime after the US merger.
 
Sevensixtyseven
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Tue May 05, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting cjpmaestro (Reply 24):

G4 flies to many destinations out of Mesa Gateway to that part of the country nonstop..I wonder if that is stopping PHX-Montana/North Dakota/South Dakota..
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Beardown91737
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Tue May 05, 2015 8:25 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 21):
For an hour and a half flight? Come on, that's nothing. They barely have time to get to altitude, run a drink service and they are already prepping for descent. UA flies CR7s from ORD to BOI and that's literally twice the distance.

I didn't realize it was only 1.5 hours, that would be OK for that type.

However, UA doing twice the distance is only a bad indication on UA.
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redzeppelin
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RE: Should AA Add Service To Montana/ND From DFW?

Tue May 05, 2015 8:43 pm

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 3):
BZN has been trying to get AA to come from DFW.

Bozeman won an SCASD grant last year with the purpose of attracting AA service to DFW. Nothing has come of it yet, AFAIK. The airport is served well by DL, UA and AS. F9 still has a token presence. AA would be a welcome addition. We'll see if they take a chance on the grant money.

2014 DOT Small Community Grant Winners Announced (by LAXintl Sep 30 2014 in Civil Aviation)
2014 Small Community Air Svc Development Program (by LAXintl Jul 2 2014 in Civil Aviation)

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