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TK787
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Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:17 pm

Greetings Turkish Aviation fans,
Welcome to another editiion, I would like to start it with this beautiful image:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Mehmet Mustafa Celik - SpotTR



I am going to make a pretty short introduction and leave it up to you guys, especially looking forward to LAXintl's latest news about TK and its plans at SAW, which should be coming shortly  

-TK has two broken birds at the moment, A333 in KTM and a A320 in IST. Let's see if they could be both salvageable.
-If you guys also want to comment on the decision to pursue the Dornier 328 design for a possible Turkish RJ.

and few other unfinished comments from the last thread:

-TKA380 said: So if MH are getting rid of their A380's as per the thread recently posted on the forum, is it definite that TK won't go for them?

Could TK take the A330F's and four 777-200's also/alternatively?
They are growing their cargo fleet so the A330F would work perfectly as they've got them already. Not sure about the 777-200, but if they're cost effective surely they will be good for the growth of long haul destinations (and increasing PAX capacity on mid-haul).

-777way wrote: PIA ATR72 will be stopping at ESB on delivery flight from Toulouse, I know many delivery flights of various carriers stop at Turkish cities mainly IST/SAW and ESB, so why dont spotters catch them? night visits perhaps the reason?

-Turkish350XWB replied: Quoting TKA380 (Reply 43):

I donk^t see them taking the B772s, but why not the A332F freighters, as according to ch-aviation they have leased one of MAScargo A332Fs. I guess the prestige vor buying used A380s is the breaking argument?


Please continue with your news, rumors, pictures and good old sense of humor and refrain from personal attacks, hostile language/criticizing others and political mumbo jumbo.

Thank you and welcome
TK787
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:49 pm

Forgot to mention these two delivery flights:
TC-LJA, 20th TK 77W, and the 8th frame with the new 49J/300Y configuration on its way to IST:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6900

and TC-JYN, the 13th TK 739ER, few hours behind it:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6902
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:58 pm

Thank you TK787 for the new thread! Amazing that we made it even to volume 2 last month!!!
The monthly Turkish Aviation editions gained an enormous value in the past years - we should market them!

During this time of the year we were always looking forward to the upcoming busy summer season, but nowadays, especially both Istanbul airports are always busy, busy, busy.
Nevertheless, besides TK's usual growth and schedule what is in the pipeline for all the other carriers? Any outlook?

In this context I realised one thing the other day. After the deregulation of the Turkish skies in the early 2000s, the Turkish market has developed of course and currently holds

- one very strong global player (TK),
- another extremely good performing and growing LCC (PC),
- three well established hybrids with fleets between 20-50 aircraft (KK/8Q/XQ),
- a domestic subsidiary with a 30 frame fleet (AJ)
- a young regional trying to find the right concept still but 8 E90s (BJ)
- and three holiday charters with fleet sizes ranging from 7 to 13 frames (FHY/CAI/TWI).

There is certainly a good mixture and variety in the market, but what struck me the most is that compared to other countries in the world, I believe this is very unique and exceptional. Look at Europe: Germany, France, UK, Italy which might face the competition of very strong LCCs, but the number of airlines in each country is very poor (even though the population is high 60-80mio). Middle East can't be compared due to the much lesser population numbers and smaller areas. Africa is economically also not in a position to be compared. Only in some Asian countries I see similarities. Of course, the US market is a motor and environment in itself. Very facinating for me atleast!

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
especially looking forward to LAXintl's latest news about TK and its plans at SAW, which should be coming shortly

                 

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
They are growing their cargo fleet so the A330F would work perfectly as they've got them already.

the 332F freighters will definately be hot on their list (relatively new, familiar with engine, familiar with one of the frames from previous lease, strong cargo growth, etc. ). it even seems to me that TK would be foolish not to take them  
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:46 pm

Again we are circling about roumors, at least on of them -ist-mia- will materialized soon. Hope that time TK get 380's 

and thanks to TK787 for new thread...
 
TK773ER
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 5:48 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):


Thanks again TK787 for another great thread. Here is a photo of the two together http://paineairport.com/kpae11210.htm

Quoting MeCe (Reply 3):

Oh know you mentioned A380 and MIA in the same sentence you know whats going to happen now ?
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 6:10 am

I hope to have an extensive post on Saturday or worst case Sunday. I'm in transit after a week of hectic activity.

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 2):
After the deregulation of the Turkish skies in the early 2000s, the Turkish market has developed of course and currently holds

Amazing course indeed. Had the opportunity to meet head of the CAA this week also who shared some interesting facts about the market development and what they see for the future that I will also post.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
HB-IWC
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 6:23 am

It seems that TK will soon overtake CX as the world's largest A330 operator. With 41 active frames (vs Cathay's 43) and another 2 coming from Afriqiyah as well as 4 more directly from Airbus in the near future, TK will be in the number one spot in a matter of weeks.
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 6:58 am

Hi Guys,
Just flewback from Madrid. Good service and plane by TK.

Indo not see a reason for taking 77E from MH, they are 15-17 years old and RR engine. (97)

I saw two kingfisher 332(without logo) at Habom area.
Skylife gives number of 332s as 17, so it means addition of 3 frames and getrof of JNV
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 1):
TC-LJA, 20th TK 77W, and the 8th frame with the new 49J/300Y configuration on its way to IST:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6900

and TC-JYN, the 13th TK 739ER, few hours behind it:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/THY6902

Add to that:

739 TC-JYN (new)

A332 TC-JIV (ex PV-MVU)
A333 TC-JOM (ex Afriqiyah)
A333 TC-JOH (new)
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 12:18 pm

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-TK has two broken birds at the moment, A333 in KTM and a A320 in IST. Let's see if they could be both salvageable.

According to this Turkish site, A320 @IST is written off:
http://kokpit.aero/motoru-yanan-ucak-kal-edildi
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 1:57 pm

don't remember reading it here before, Sunexpress is about to take delivery of the first of three B737-900ER (all ex Spicejet aircraft) which in return they are going to operate on behalf of Anadolujet. This is the first time XQ operates the longer version of the 737.

http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/viewphoto.main?LC=nav2&picid=9237
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 2:16 pm

Quoting TK773ER (Reply 4):
Oh know you mentioned A380 and MIA in the same sentence you know whats going to happen now ?

Second part guaranteed  
 
SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 5:17 pm

If TK eventually takes over some 380s from MH in wet lease, I just hope that they will retain the F cabin, and re-launch a nice F product, as they briefly did with 77Ws from 9W...
 
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Yakamoz
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 6:50 pm

I have 3 questions according to THY fleet.

1) B737-800

Presentation of December 2014, by TK. Page 29 is the fleet.
http://investor.turkishairlines.com/...load/sunumlar/ARALIK_2014_v003.pdf

They have 68 B737-800, 25 owned, 33 financial lease and 10 Opr./Wet Lease.
Does anybody know the registration of the 25 owned and 10 Opr./Wet Lease aircraft? Which ones are that?

2) Who is the owner of Anadolujet aircraft?

TK and Sunexpress write on their homepage this aircraft as owner. Is Sunexpress the owner and leased the B737-700 and B737-800s to AnadoluJet and TK presents them on their list because they are the 100% owner of Anadolujet?

3) According to ch-aviation.ch, There are 10 B737-800 operated by TK but the owner is Sunexpress. Following registrations:

TC-JFC
TC-JFD
TC-JFE
TC-JFF
TC-JFG
TC-JFL
TC-JFM
TC-JFP
TC-JFV
TC-JFY

Is that right? Does TK fly 10 B738 Sunexpress and could it be, that this 10 are the listed "10 Opr./Wet Lease" in the presentation?


Thanks for all answers.
I've made a big Excel file of many information including TK, Anadolujet and Sunexpress aircraft and need this information to fill the gaps.
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 01, 2015 8:12 pm

Hello May, Hello All

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
-777way wrote: PIA ATR72 will be stopping at ESB on delivery flight from Toulouse, I know many delivery flights of various carriers stop at Turkish cities mainly IST/SAW and ESB, so why dont spotters catch them? night visits perhaps the reason?

There is no nice place like Fly-Inn Cafe of IST around ESB for spotting. Perhaps you can use your own camping material as a spotter but then there is no interesting traffic to catch other than Anadolujet, Borajet, Pegasus and TK. Occasions like above only happens very rarely.

By the way, for long time I wanted to share with you my ideas about location of ESB:

To me, location selection of Ankara Airport, ESB, was a very big mistake by DHMI back in 1950s. It is in the north east of Ankara, at an isolated location. It is far away from Ankara and you need to pass a difficult terrain (a deep valley like the cliffs you see in Indiana Jones Movies and a high hill following the valley). Its location is opposite to growth direction of Ankara, Industrial Zones of Ankara and new Business Center. So actual users of ESB need to cross all city and then drive through a difficult terrain to reach airport.

Another problem of ESB is, there is no surrounding city that benefits from ESB (perhaps Cankiri but how much traffic it really creates? Practically zero I guess.).

When DHMI announced new terminal for ESB last decade, I thought that this was a big mistake and DHMI better built a new airport in the west part of city.

As TAV's contract is coming to an end in a few years and Ankara Municipality is planning to built a subway line to ESB, I think that we are approaching a new cross road for ESB. I believe that new subway line will cost a lot of money and for that money a new airport like ESB size can also be built on the west side of Ankara.

I believe that Temelli Airfield which was built early 1920s during Independence War would be a perfect location and base for such an airport.

It is close to business center of the city, industrial zones, residential areas and actual users of the Ankara Airport.

There is already a high quality highway available to Ankara City Center and towards Eskisehir-Afyon directions as well.

Moreover with the HighSpeed Railway Line already available, travel times will be as follows for railway users:

- Ankara City Center : 15 minutes
- Eskisehir City Center : 45 minutes
- Konya City Center : 45 minutes
- Afyon City Center : 45 minutes (future line in the planning)

This airport can also be linked to city of Bolu via Beypazari with an additional railway line, probably with 45 minutes max travel time.

All in all, such a new airport for Ankara would be very good not only for Ankara City but also for industrial powerhouse cities like Eskisehir, Konya as well as tourism centers like Afyon (already in the planning), Beypazari and Bolu with an additional railway line.

Here is location satellite map of Temelli Airfield
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p682/UmutAydinOrtana/Temelli%20Airfield_zps3y7hkcf9.png
The future is in the skies.
 
TKA380
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 02, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 6):

That's great news! Do you reckon they'll put a special livery on one of the A330's in order to celebrate? (or boast   haha!)

I really hope so anyway as it'd be nice to see.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 02, 2015 2:57 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 14):
. Its location is opposite to growth direction of Ankara, Industrial Zones of Ankara and new Business Center. So actual users of ESB need to cross all city and then drive through a difficult terrain to reach airport.

How will the HSR effect Ankara traffic?

I suppose for many simply taking the HSR to Istanbul might be a quicker door to door option.

Also is the HSR not supposed to connect to both SAW and the new airport on Istanbul end as well? So might make sense also to take the HSR and reach the world via Istanbul.
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 02, 2015 4:06 pm

Hello everyone.

This week I participated in the IATA IGHC which held its annual event in Istanbul.
With event being in Turkey, many of the participants had special presentations focused on Turkey, along with many Turkish participants including Temel Kotil of TK, Turkish CAA director, and executives from other airlines such as Pegasus.

Below are some of my notes from the presentations and sideline discussions.


IATA

o Aviation is one of the worlds key industries. Commercial airline share of global GDP continues to grow - currently 3.4% in 2014, expect 4.1% by 2030
o IST now 6th most connected city globally. (#1 London)
o By 2025 IATA estimates new IST will be worlds 4th busiest airport globally at 120mil pax. (#1 forecast to be Beijing)
o As global center of global aviation demand shifts eastward, Istanbul is positioned perfectly as hub location to feed markets Europe, Africa, MidEast.
o Worlds largest regions by enplanements in 2003 were: North America = 36%, Europe = 27%, Asia-Pacific = 25%, Latin America = 5%, Middle East = 4%, Africa = 2%
o Worlds largest regions by enplanements in 2023 are estimated to be: Asia-Pacific = 35%, North America = 27%, Europe = 19%, Middle East = 9%, Latin America = 7%, Africa = 3%
o 1.5 billion customers within 4-hours of IST - some $25 trillion value.
o Turkey worlds 16th largest economy. Estimated to climb to 12th by 2050.
o Istanbul GDP alone surpasses that of some EU countries entirely such as like Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria.


DHMI(national airport authority)

o Turkish aviation has seen an amazing evolution. In 2003 there were 5mil domestic pax, in 2014 it was 43mil. Number of airports in 2003 - 26, 2014 - 53. Active commercial aircraft in Turkey 2003- 162, by 2014 - 441. Turkish airline market total revenue 2003 - $2.2Bil, in 2013 was $21.4Bil. Aviation sector accounts for 5.9% GDP
o 2015 forecast 10-12% growth
o Turkey worlds 6th largest global tourism market so airports all over country are seeing growth and airport infrastructure is a key national priority
o Istanbul 3rd Airport - Oct 2017 opening. Phase 1 will have central terminal(separate Dom/Intl sections), 3 runways - 90mil pax capacity
o Expects some airlines to have flights late 2017, but TK will move over for Summer 2018 schedule
o During phase 1, all airlines will share terminals, but under future development phases TK will have its own exclusive terminal.
o Airport will be make extensive use of new technologies including biometric tools to facilitate customers and security. Potential with wearable technologies to aid with things such as way finding. With high consumer adoption rate of smartphone or wearable technology would be wasted opportunity to not try to leverage. Win-win for customers-airline-airport.
o SAW airport - tender for 2nd runway should be finalized shortly. New high-speed taxiways to be built in the interim as well.
o See strong future growth at SAW. For example under construction bridge project will help link Turkey 4th largest city Bursa directly into SAW airport catchment area.
o Incorporating new traffic management procedures as used by airports like LHR/LGW to boost ATC capacity to both IST and SAW by about ~20%.
o Still investing in IST - 8 new gates, 26 new parking spots, 32 additional check-in desk, enlarged car park, etc.

Turkish Airlines

o 2014 fantastic year, expect even better 2015.
o THY is 13th largest global airline based on global market share in 2014 - 1.8%. Believe it can grown and plateau around 4% by 2025 and could be top 5 or so airline by market share globally.
o TK market share today versus competitors - Domestic 53%, Intl 40%, Overall 44%. Would be very happy with 50-50 split.
o Thanks to IST geography TK has the unique ability to serve majority of markets with narrowbodies at high frequency unlike ME3.
o Views it as historical mistake European carriers are making by leaving shorthaul routes to subsidiaries or exiting cities entirely. Defeats benefit of running a hub and feed for their longhaul routes.
o Many people believe that TK is built on connections, but in reality the story is about local Turkish demand. Only 26% of passengers are Intl transit -- far lower percentage than many European competitors at their hubs.
o Istanbul being so well connected by TK has created other broader benefits. Now 3,200 larger foreign companies operate in Turkey, and some of the worlds biggest enterprises have set up Istanbul as regional HQs - This in itself drives nice new premium revenue which encourages TK to expand network even further.
o Istanbul represents near 50% of Turkey's business and personal services sector revenue. Istanbul becoming a global financial hub in addition to historic trade hub.
o 3rd airport will allow TK to introduce additional overlay hub wave structures that will further benefit network connectivity. Today TK offers about 17,000 unique connection combinations at IST. See this reaching 30,000 at new airport.
o At new airport, TK will offer VIP lounges for economy transit passengers in addition to traditional business class lounges. Wants to make Istanbul transit experience superior to other airports. Some pax have 3-5 hour connections so want to make it comfortable for them even if economy
o Big network priorities in 2015-16 are continued heavy Africa focus and growing SAW
o Africa is white spot on many airline route maps. Continent great opportunity to make money. Might not make sense for outsiders, but it works great for TK. Target to have 50-destinations in next couple of years. TK to become the "carrier of Africa" Seeks to offer every market atleast daily link then ultimately double daily.
o Grow SAW network - seek to have 50% market share at airport (2014 was 26%). Growth from 30 to 47 destinations last 2 years. TK SAW based fleet has grown from 14 to 28 (plus Ajet) last 2 years. More planes coming. Competitors talk about 100 SAW based aircraft, so TK can also do the same.
o SAW catchment area seeing high local pax demand plus ability to utilize as second connection point to compliment IST hub.
o TK is essentially building a 2nd Turkish Airlines at SAW - with solid business plan of its own. Linking profitable Europe and Mideast markets. SAW network will remain after 3rd airport opens and serve as hub of its own. Maybe even longhaul one day.
o TK investing into SAW facilities. New lounges opended late 2014. now Do&Co at SAW also.
o Why build up 2nd hub to close by at SAW? Istanbul is Istanbul. Studied other airports like ESB, AYT, ADB but don't see the business opportunity. AYT primarily a charter market so does not fit TK business model, ESB now with AJet offers solid domestic network that has finally reached black financially, but limited Intl opportunity. ADB while having Intl demand not so great domestic and also is a leisure oriented market thus better fit for Sun Express instead. At end SAW was clear option for TK.
o Bilaterals limit frequency in some markets - India, China, Russia, Canada, Saudi Arabia etc. Could do Istanbul-Jeddah 10X day with narrowbodies if bilateral allowed, but instead must operate 3 daily on widebodies and sell additional frequencies as charter flights.

Pegasus

o 2nd largest carrier. Domestic marketshare 28%
o 58 aircraft by March15, 65 by end of 2015. Fleet about 50/50 owned/leased
o Near 90 routes to 36 countries
o Some Intl markets such as Russia/CIS and MidEast growth limited due bilateral
o Another double digit year growth forecast 2015 – est 16-18%
o Seeks to establish own ground handling company and win tender to operate at SAW
o While committed to SAW would consider ops at new airport as well if demand and cost justified. Realize PC is not option for many on European side today. With many new aircraft on order 3rd airport could be good place for them.
o SAW needs 2nd runway within next 2-years and further terminal expansion. “New” terminal was designed for 25mil annual pax, and in 2014 airport had 23.8mil. When terminal opened in 2009 there were only had 6.6mil and everyone thought facility was too big. Who could have estimated the quadrupling in 5-years? Original projections estimated it would take till 2023 to reach 25mil.

=


Hopefully I've not missed anything. Will add more if I run across or remember anything else.

The most interesting things I heard was
1) TK will turn SAW into a full hub
2) TK will create lounges for international economy transit pax at the 3rd airport. That should further enhance the travel experience and encourage more transfer travel via TK versus competitor hubs.
3) PC considering operating at 3rd airport also.
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Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 02, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):

Great! Thanks a lot, very interesting!
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 02, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Hopefully I've not missed anything.

Thanks for taking the time to give us all the info. Lot to digest here.
-TK to turn SAW into its second hub even after the opening of 3rd airport makes sense. SAW will be closer to maybe 50% of Istanbul pax. 100 planes each of TK and Pegasus at SAW, this is going to get really interesting. Already cut throat competition. I purchased SAW-DLM roundtrip on TK for $41 total this week. Eventually, with connections from the Kadikoy-Kartal subway and the completion of the Izmit Bay bridge to Bursa ( worlds second longest suspension bridge when completed 2017), SAW might be the bigger domestic airport of the two, who knows??
JFK-SAW might happen earlier than JFK-another Turkish airport or JFK-IST by another operator US or Turkish  
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Many people believe that TK is built on connections, but in reality the story is about local Turkish demand. Only 26% of passengers are Intl transit -- far lower percentage than many European competitors at their hubs.

Just imagine what the number would be if there were no visa restrictions for Turkish citizens for most of Europe?
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sun May 03, 2015 5:42 am

Great post, thanks for all the details LAXIntl!

TK's SAW decision is indeed the most interesting one here. It makes sense to me and is fully standing on two big pillars: meet the huge demand and attack your biggest competition aka Pegasus. What I fear most is that SAW doesn't have the infrastructure to hold expanding PC and capacity-doubling TK. The terminal is a total chaos during peak hours and busy travel times.
 
SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sun May 03, 2015 2:00 pm

Thanks again LAXntl  

SAW will indeed gain further geographic coverage when NewIST opens. Still a pitu that now regional bases are genuonely open and operated at ESB and ADB.

IST-LUX is now increasingly operated with a 739 on a daily basis, thumbs up  

When that route was started 22 months ago, it was 5 weekly, with a 319 4-weekly and a 738 1-weekly.
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sun May 03, 2015 5:10 pm

Thank you LAX for sharing the information.


I guess TK will adopt what folks like Air France has done in Paris.
While intercontinental hub is CDG, there is a substantial operation at ORY focused on domestic, European and some leisure routes.
Like France being so Paris centric, Turkey is very Istanbul centric for its economic and travel activity so makes sense to be strong at both sides of Bosphorus and service the local market demand.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
o Istanbul GDP alone surpasses that of some EU countries entirely such as like Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria.

That is pretty amazing fact. Talk about the power of a mega-city!
mercure f-wtcc
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sun May 03, 2015 7:12 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 16):
How will the HSR effect Ankara traffic?

I'm sure it will have an effect if the European experience is anything to go with.

A portion of travelers might opt for the train which could hurt ESB enplanements.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 19):
-TK to turn SAW into its second hub even after the opening of 3rd airport makes sense. SAW will be closer to maybe 50% of Istanbul pax. 100 planes each of TK and Pegasus at SAW, this is going to get really interesting. Already cut throat competition. I purchased SAW-DLM roundtrip on TK for $41 total this week. Eventually, with connections from the Kadikoy-Kartal subway and the completion of the Izmit Bay bridge to Bursa ( worlds second longest suspension bridge when completed 2017), SAW might be the bigger domestic airport of the two, who knows??

  

As SAW airport is further linked to regions around it, its appeal with only continue to grow.

I'm sure it will be very interesting to watch how the market will absorb 100 planes each from PC and TK @ SAW, though with DHMI projections for such continued massive growth in the Turkish sector, it might not be an issue.


Quoting stylo777 (Reply 20):
The terminal is a total chaos during peak hours and busy travel times.

Well Pegasus brought this up. The growth at SAW has truly been amazing and what was once a oversized terminal is already at near capacity mere 5-years later.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 21):
Still a pitu that now regional bases are genuonely open and operated at ESB and ADB.

I think TK explained it well. Neither airport offers the opportunity that greater Istanbul do, nor does TK have the right product to serve them. AnadoluJet and Sun Express seem better suited for ESB and ADB market peculiarities.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 22):
I guess TK will adopt what folks like Air France has done in Paris.
While intercontinental hub is CDG, there is a substantial operation at ORY focused on domestic, European and some leisure routes.

  

I think its been shown that IST and SAW stand on their own market strengths and not cannibalize each other.

So recreating an entirely separate Turkish Airlines #2 operation over at SAW does not seem too far fetched.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 22):
That is pretty amazing fact. Talk about the power of a mega-city!

Related just this week I read about a study on 20 mega cities.

What was interesting in the report was that is made mention that these mega cities continue to expand and gobble up at nearby urban areas, so a city like Istanbul is really a single economic and population area much larger than what many consider as Istanbul proper. Istanbul since 1975 has had its urban area triple.

With $400 billion urban transformation projects in work around Istanbul, this megacity seems on path to continue such rapid expansion.

[Edited 2015-05-03 12:29:35]
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sun May 03, 2015 9:38 pm

Thanks for another thread TK787

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 12):

It would be a surprise if they brought back F Class. It was indeed a great offering having got to fly it LHR-IST on the 9W product.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 10:06 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 10:47 am

Airpothaber reports that TK purchased one of MH's LHR slots. I checked and there was a slot with arrivals 05:35 in the morning and another one with arrivals at 16:15 afternoon.
 
yenne09
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 11:02 am

Are the YUL flights still operated by B777?
 
LLA001
Posts: 217
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 11:44 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
TK will turn SAW into a full hub

Will they construct a new terminal if that happens for increasing number of passengers ? also what would happen with the old terminal building at SAW?
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 11:55 am

The construction site of the new 3rd Istanbul mega airport was handed over to the consortium on 1st may.

That means they have exactly 42 months to finish the first phase of the project. Let's see how fast they can advance...
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 1:06 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 28):
also what would happen with the old terminal building at SAW?

There are already a collection of empty terminal buildings at SAW which are brand new looking from outside. What a poor planning by Ministry of Transportation.
The future is in the skies.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):
Latest photo of the A333 in KTM:

Thanks, I have a feeling that this will also be a write off because of the earthquake. They were supposed to build a temporary hangar to do the initial repairs, but that will be pushed months back probably.

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 26):
Airpothaber reports that TK purchased one of MH's LHR slots. I checked and there was a slot with arrivals 05:35 in the morning and another one with arrivals at 16:15 afternoon.

Great, more LHR slots  
Quoting yenne09 (Reply 27):
Are the YUL flights still operated by B777?

I just looked, last flights all A333.

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 28):
Will they construct a new terminal if that happens for increasing number of passengers ? also what would happen with the old terminal building at SAW?

Remember this?
http://www.arup.com/Projects/Sabiha_...Sabiha_Gokcen_runway_Gallery1.aspx
There will be a new terminal between the runways

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 29):
Let's see how fast they can advance...

That is going to be some race. 42 months to finish a 90M capacity airport with alll supporting buildings and connecting rail/roadways on what looks like an open canvas with bunch of mining holes in it?? Good Luck to all of them.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 1:13 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 30):
There are already a collection of empty terminal buildings at SAW which are brand new looking from outside. What a poor planning by Ministry of Transportation.

On the other hand, it is a blessing when you want to film a scene that takes place in an airport  
It is very difficult to get permits and shoot in a working airport but those terminals are awesome both outside and inside for filming.
I know it is poor planning on one hand, but it is helping the film industry for the time being.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 2:37 pm

Quoting LLA001 (Reply 28):
Will they construct a new terminal if that happens for increasing number of passengers ? also what would happen with the old terminal building at SAW?

Yes there are plans for new terminals and overall expansion work of the airfield including new runway, taxiways, etc.

Quoting TK105 (Reply 30):
What a poor planning by Ministry of Transportation.

Why poor planning? Could you in 2007 have forecast the amazing growth the airport has seen? At the time belief was that it would take until 2023 for facility to approach capacity, not in 2014.

But back the point, SAW does not fully operate under DHMI banner just as virtually every other airport Turkey so the Ministry of Transport dues not make most of the decisions.

SAW instead belongs to SSM, the military industrial arm that offers tenders for the development and management of airport facilities. For example the terminal is managed by Malaysia Airports Holdings until 2028.

Empty older terminal or not, the airport operates at incredible profits for the Turkish state.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 31):
what looks like an open canvas with bunch of mining holes in it??

I heard last week that majority of the land grading was complete already and foundational earthwork for terminal was commencing.
So it seems things are moving very rapidly !
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Mon May 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 22):
I guess TK will adopt what folks like Air France has done in Paris.
While intercontinental hub is CDG, there is a substantial operation at ORY focused on domestic, European and some leisure routes.

While we are at it, I really wonder whether TK will sometime return to ORY, not as a relocation of the current CDG flights, but rather as further expansion in France.

Currently, TK operates 4 daily flights CDG-IST (3x330 or 77W + 1x321) and 2 daily flights CDG-SAW (any 737)

When the 4th current CDG-IST flight is eventually upgauged (which is a pretty short way off I believe), what next for TK in Paris? ORY would be a good development, with a very much untapped market (only BA, AB and AZ fly there as Eurpoean legacies)

Same issue in London: may we see sometime TK in STN?
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 14):

According to local press in Turkey a commission is established with the initiative of Ankara Chambers of Commerce, MP's from Ankara and had a meeting with TK's General Managaer Temel Kotil in Ankara earlier today. The link is below and in Turkish only;
http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...enboga-icin-calismalar-baslad.html
The agenda is to reinstate or resume direct services from ESB to NY, London, Amsterdam, Vienna, Paris, Stockholm, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Baku.
Some of these routes are already served by TK from ESB like FRA and GYD (codeshare with AZAL), some of these to be reinstated like BRU, DUS and AMS. Some routes served by others like ARN (SK to reinstate next month).
The last time TK served ESB Paris was in 90'ies from ESB to ORY so most likely we will see ESB CDG this time.
The first time introductions will be ESB LHR and ESB JFK or may be EWR, we will see.
ESB LHR was served by BA on and off from 60'ies until 1990 and later on by BMED (BA franchise) from 2006 until 2008 and then by BD as BD bought BMED. BD had to suspend the route due to TK dragging their feet to not to codeshare the route under * A not due to load factors as most people think was the case and partly due to BD's own struggle and recession in UK in 2009.
If Malaysian Airlines is leaving additional slots to TK at LHR after SK, great news, may be they can be utilized partly for launching ESB LHR.
TK carried around 36,000 pax from ESB to London airpots (one way) via IST in 2014 so there is a market there. When BA served ESB the number was around 25,000 pax per annum so this is a good improvement for route feasibility. Also with a new direct service ESB will attract transfer traffic from LHR to other destinations in Turkey as well as to North Cyprus so there is additional potential there.

Good to see TK being a part of the study group to connect ESB to major world cities and much needed as I always say...

Let's see what will come out of this initiative..
 
SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 2:05 am

Fingers crossed.

Such TK #3 operating from ESB could perhaps bargain a rock-bottom deal for alternative 130-150 seaters, such as the C919 or the MS21-200, besides the E195-E2 or the CS-300.

And such smaller frame may also help building more regional routes from IST: PDV, BOJ, BNX, DBV, SPU, OHD, CLJ, TSR, besides replacing 319s and 736s on current routes.
 
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ankaraflyjet
Posts: 479
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 6:47 am

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 36):

Yes the ideal markets from ESB with such a/c would be Athens, Cairo, Kiev, Batumi, Beirut, Tebriz, Rome, Zurich, Basel, Geneva, Amman, Tel Aviv, Tripoli and Sochi.

Some of these destinations can take 737 or 320 at summer months as well

Seasonal routes from ESB could be Hurghada, Crete, Zagreb and other sun destinations around Mediterranean as well as Prague, Budapest and Innsburg at ski/holiday season
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 8:06 am

TK new 77W layout finally on seatguru:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Tur...ish_Airlines_Boeing_777-300_V3.php
Can someone remind me the new confing on the latest 3 739ERs? Thanks.
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 8:40 am

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 37):
Yes the ideal markets from ESB with such a/c would be Athens, Cairo, Kiev, Batumi, Beirut, Tebriz, Rome, Zurich, Basel, Geneva, Amman, Tel Aviv, Tripoli and Sochi.

Some of these destinations can take 737 or 320 at summer months as well

Seasonal routes from ESB could be Hurghada, Crete, Zagreb and other sun destinations around Mediterranean as well as Prague, Budapest and Innsburg at ski/holiday season

Such regional 130-seaters would also be relevant for CDG, LHR, AMS, BRU, FRA, MUC, MXP, and help cut costs especially if a 2-daily flight pattern is operated on those busier airports.

And this kind of fleet may also be deployed on domestic routes connecting other airports than IST/SAW.
 
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OA260
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 9:06 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 25):

Thanks for the pic. I doubt we will see this fly again.
 
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Yakamoz
Posts: 544
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 10:22 am

Quoting Yakamoz (Reply 13):

Has anyone any answer?

Quoting TK787 (Reply 38):

Should be C16Y153
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 349
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:55 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 11:50 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 38):

TK new 77W layout finally on seatguru:
http://www.seatguru.com/airlines/Tur...ish_Airlines_Boeing_777-300_V3.php
Can someone remind me the new confing on the latest 3 739ERs? Thanks.

3 middle seats in Business ?
Looks like a downgrade to me.
 
Turkish777X
Posts: 376
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:38 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 12:25 pm

Quoting Yakamoz (Reply 41):
Should be C16Y153

True

The new batch of A321s (TC-JSN) onwards have 20J and 158Y. A clear tendency from TK to increase their J section on their planes.

New A321s are sent daily to LHR now, which is of course great from a product point of view.
 
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Yakamoz
Posts: 544
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 1:16 pm

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):

I thought it was Y180? Planespotters.net wrote it.
 
TKA380
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2014 10:05 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):

They're coming to MAN too. Someone I know flew on the new A321 and apparently the interior is slightly different, as is the IFE. I've been told it's been improved, even though the newer A321's were already a far better product than all European competitors. Does anyone have a picture of the new cabin that they can share?
 
Turkish777X
Posts: 376
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 2:12 pm

Here you go:

TC-JSN interior
 
Turkish777X
Posts: 376
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 2:13 pm

Same for the new batch of 777s (starting from JJY):

 
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LAXintl
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Joined: Wed May 24, 2000 12:12 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 35):
Let's see what will come out of this initiative..

Mr. Kotil will smile, be polite, and say hersey olabilir and bakalim and leave it at that.

Unless Ankara pays money to subsidize the service, such flying does not fit TK plans. Also TK does not need summer strong routes when its already so busy. It would be more appealing to find something that works in the winter months instead. If anything I could imagine AnadoluJet with its slightly lower cost base being more appropriate then TK itself.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 36):
deal for alternative 130-150 seaters, such as the C919 or the MS21-200, besides the E195-E2 or the CS-300.
Quoting SR4ever (Reply 39):
And this kind of fleet may also be deployed on domestic routes connecting other airports than IST/SAW.

There are no plans for smaller equipment. Matter of fact the A319/737-700 fleet is shrinking. Minimum fleet size TK seeks to operate itself is about 160 seats.

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 42):
3 middle seats in Business ?
Looks like a downgrade to me.

TKs own 777s have always been 2-3-2. Still a pretty good product imo.

Quoting Yakamoz (Reply 44):
I thought it was Y180? Planespotters.net wrote it.

As posted above and per my last fleet list update, latest A321s arrive in 20/158 configuration.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
MeCe
Posts: 282
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2009 9:19 am

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting thaiflyer (Reply 42):
3 middle seats in Business ?
Looks like a downgrade to me.

Same as previous version nothing changed about seat except seat count rise to 49 with cancellation of comfort class.

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