miaintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 3:44 pm

When will the new IST airport be completed?
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 4:05 pm

If Ankara wants so much service yes it should subsidize such flying, but should also consider going after LCCs like Pagasus, AtlasJet, Onur etc.

I would expect each one with lower cost, and also with ability to more creatively market services could be better fit than TK having to take capacity away from more profitable markets like its Istanbul hub.

Plus what is wrong with working to attrach European LCCs to Ankara - Easyjet, German Wings, Transavia, Ryanair. For the right offer they could try market also.

Why does it have to be TK, or some major carrier. LCCs are great in Europe and today connect many many markets that could never support legacy carriers.

[Edited 2015-05-05 09:18:26]
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SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48):
There are no plans for smaller equipment. Matter of fact the A319/737-700 fleet is shrinking. Minimum fleet size TK seeks to operate itself is about 160 seats.

I know, but ESB could support a TK #3 based there and operating those cheaper aircrafts...
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 4:55 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 51):
LCCs are great in Europe and today connect many many markets that could never support legacy carriers.

  
Future of point-to-point shorthaul are LCCs. Legacy carriers will only operate what supports their primary hubs.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 52):
I know, but ESB could support a TK #3 based there and operating those cheaper aircrafts...

TK already has a cheaper operation at ESB. AnadoluJet. 20+ of its 30 aircraft are dedicated to ESB.

Mainline has repeatedly not worked in Ankara for TK without losing money. Heck they could not even connect Ankara-Izmir with a mainline product without losing money on the flights.

Putting smaller capacity aircraft into the market increases per seat cost and makes the situation worse.
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SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 53):
Mainline has repeatedly not worked in Ankara for TK without losing money. Heck they could not even connect Ankara-Izmir with a mainline product without losing money on the flights.

When was the last genuine attempt? Market conditions have been changing quite fast in Turkey. Which frames have been used?

Quote:

[quote=LAXintl,reply=53]Putting smaller capacity aircraft into the market increases per seat cost and makes the situation worse.

Not necessarily, if actual loadings are higher on C300 than on a 738. And regional aircrafts tend to pay lower taxes, too.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 54):
When was the last genuine attempt?

Last few years. TK has tried routes including ones to Europe from ESB.
Its only now after 5-6 years of trying with AnadoluJet the ESB domestic operation has finally entered the black after significant losses.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 54):
Which frames have been used?

737NGs.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 54):
Not necessarily, if actual loadings are higher on C300 than on a 738. And regional aircrafts tend to pay lower taxes, too.

Smaller aircraft = higher CASM

You need higher average fares to make smaller aircraft work.
Dont you think TK knows this well from its RJ100 operation and more recently from shrinking 737-700/A319 ops?



I am not sure why we keep going round and round about the same subject.
Certainly if there was good money to be made at ESB, AYT or ADB, TK would be the first one in the door, but clearly their experience is otherwise and their executives publicly restated this at the IATA conference for everyone to hear.
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 7:16 pm

Is basic rule of airline industry not that airlines go where the money is?

If Ankara so good, what has stopped Pegasus for example from starting up a base there all these years?
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 51):

Germanwings already serve ESB and has upto 4 flights a day on certain days.

ESB has some LCC potential but there is more premium pax potential there,

I believe the key to make the services run profitably will require a good transfer pax policy at ESB particularly dom to int and vice versa and by TK.

AJet tried European destinations from ESB but pax still opted to use fly TK via IST on the same route as an inferior product was not favored. This was a good test when Ajet was flying 76 pax on ESB STN on a 738 at the same day more than 100 pax elected to fly TK to LHR via IST. So ESB requires TK mainline product at least for international routes from ESB. Ajet prodcut does not exist anyway other than to ECN.
 
SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 7:48 pm

What is need at ESB is indeed:

- a sefl-contained operational base
- with smaller and more economical frames than mainline 737s/32xs
- offering the same standards as TK current mainline product
- and a withdrawal of AnadoluJet from those routes to be operated by TK #3

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 55):
Smaller aircraft = higher CASM

You need higher average fares to make smaller aircraft work.
Dont you think TK knows this well from its RJ100 operation and more recently from shrinking 737-700/A319 ops?

What about compared CASMs of RJ100 vs CS100, and 73G/319 vs. CS300?
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 58):

Sounds logical to me even if some of our members disputes this as they say less seats will increase operating costs per seat offered.
I am not an expert in airline route feasibility but I suspect TK will elect to tailor a fleet for ESB market requirements.

Yes ESB and ADB are secondary markets to IST but big enough on their own to work. That is what it is all about. ESB and ADB handle more than 10 million pax each now so this is not small and with the right product, this can boost further given that infrastructure is there to offer great connections and market development.
QR just increased ESB DOH to daliy and a terminator flight, SK is reinstating ESB CPH and ARN on a yearround basis, Turkmenistan just started so it is moving slowlyand TK will follow I am sure....
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Tue May 05, 2015 10:04 pm

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 57):
ESB has some LCC potential but there is more premium pax potential there,

Premium      TK system average paid premium class demand is 4-5%. Ankara is barely 1%.

Don't mistake any government travel as being premium. The Turkish state gets virtually a 50% discount on TK pricing and god only knows when they pay the airline. (many months later). State travel hence is often worse than a discount economy passenger off the street.

The facts are that yields to Europe are lower from Ankara and most Anatolia markets than IST for example. Not only is there less premium demand, the distance is greater which beats down yields further.

Ultimately I fully disagree with your view. Ankara has much more upside as a LCC market than a premium one.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 58):
What about compared CASMs of RJ100 vs CS100, and 73G/319 vs. CS300?

Does not really matter. Market pricing in ESB is low. The only way to make it work is via a lower cost vehicle like Ajet, not TK mainline. Only way TK has turned many loss making domestic routes around is by lowering cost with denser gauge product with Ajet.

A couple years ago we had discussion here about how Izmir chamber of commerce begged TK to keep mainline product between ADB and ESB so there could be a premium product. Izmir decided to offer TK a revenue guarantee but in less than 6-months had to drop the program when it was clear many flights did not even have a single paid business passenger and Izmir ended up paying TK lots of money as result.



p.s. -- Bodrum is a bigger premium market than Ankara

[Edited 2015-05-05 15:13:17]
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 12:17 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):

So you explain me how come whenever I fly to Ankara the Business Class cabin is always full. It is like that also on LH, they extended in some flights the Business Class to 16th row, I have never seen that in my life before actually in North America or Europe...

I fly between Paris, London, Turkey and North America almost twice a month and always on Business Class or First if available and my actual flight experiences fully contradict with what you write here,

Yes I remember the ESB ADB case when it was transferred to Ajet but I would like to repeat the same here, an overall and consistent product should be developed in the network to make a successful turnaround. In that case ADB ESB did not prove to be viable by TK on full TK operation.

It is good to see BJV attracting Premium pax but this is seasonal, otherwise BA or LH would not serve BJV on a seasonal basis. The comparison in that sense is not representative, yes ESB has Premium pax potential, set aside the Turkish Government officials there is quite a complex amount of international pax in and out of the airport.

LCC's do have potentail as well, not that it should be overlooked.

The way Ankara is developing with defense, space, health, education sectors and bomming industrial production/manufacturing, this city needs to be better connected to the world is the topic,

Thanks for all contributors, I hope it will attract sufficient interest and we will see improvement soon....
 
MeCe
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
Don't mistake any government travel as being premium. The Turkish state gets virtually a 50% discount on TK pricing and god only knows when they pay the airline. (many months later). State travel hence is often worse than a discount economy passenger off the street.

I read that, there is a VIP list and they have free upgrade to business. If true this may be another reason.

On the other hand, I agree with Ankara is LCC city. Everything is much cheaper than Istanbul because of Ankara is mainly goverment workers and student city.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 1:17 am

For fun here are yields (in Euro cents) to various European cities for comparison between IST, ESB and ADB for 12-month period ending Sept 2014.

Dest - IST - ESB - ADB
AMS - 6.3 - 4.9 - 5.6
BCN - 6.9 - 6.3 - 6.6
BRU - 6.5 - 5.1 - 5.4
CDG - 7.8 - 6.3 - 6.6
DUS - 6.3 - 5.4 - 5.8
FRA - 7.4 - 5.9 - 5.8
LHR - 7.5 - 6.0 - 5.6
MOS - 9.1 - 8.9 - 7.5
MUC - 6.8 - 5.3 - 6.1
MXP - 8.2 - 7.6 - 7.4
ZRH - 7.2 - 5.8 - 6.6

Of all the above markets only Moscow-Ankara yields come close to matching those from IST.
And in most cases ADB yields are higher than ESB.


p.s. - time permitting I'd be happy to look up any other markets as well. The point remains, ESB is not some magical premium market. Quite far from it reality.

[Edited 2015-05-05 18:58:50]
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
Don't mistake any government travel as being premium. The Turkish state gets virtually a 50% discount on TK pricing and god only knows when they pay the airline. (many months later). State travel hence is often worse than a discount economy passenger off the street.

I think this is TK's own mistake and TK management's way of securing their chairs (bribing ???)! If I had a seat at Chamber of Commerce, I'd have sued this situation at Competition Authority. But come on, we are in Turkey!

Quoting MeCe (Reply 62):
On the other hand, I agree with Ankara is LCC city. Everything is much cheaper than Istanbul because of Ankara is mainly goverment workers and student city.

I do not know from what decade you know Ankara but I advice you to visit IDEF2015 and see the new face of Ankara (for you)!

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 48):
Mr. Kotil will smile, be polite, and say hersey olabilir and bakalim and leave it at that.

Lets see, I'm curious.

I lately notice that TK's IST-ESB frequency is constantly increasing with new flights added (23 daily flights each way I've counted for this week. Note that TK, AJ & PC ESB-SAW flights are totally excluded in this figure and probably it counts another 20+ flights each way).

So way out is very simple: If ESB is such a low yield market for TK, let us help TK and liberate IST-ESB market for other players. Let us save TK, the burden its paying for low yielding ESB passenger structure, i.e. students and low income government official. Let us help TK so that it can deploy its planes to high yield markets, between IST and elsewhere, rather that they carry students and Turkish Diaspora to ESB, where TK is bleeding.

Let's save TK....
The future is in the skies.
 
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ankaraflyjet
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 63):

Thank you for the valuable information. Does this suggest that being less profitable than IST it is not profitable on a stand alone basis? Does a route in Turkey have to be more profitable than IST to be viable?

On a related matter, the potential of Ankara is not limited to traffic figures ex-ESB becasue many pax, particularly to long distance international flights go to IST by car or train and then start their journey and this is a wider topic to discuss, so we should not solely rely on ESB traffic figures to assess true potential..
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 4:32 am

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 61):
So you explain me how come whenever I fly to Ankara the Business Class cabin is always full. It is like that also on LH, they extended in some flights the Business Class to 16th row, I have never seen that in my life before actually in North America or Europe...

I believe its important to remember full planes dont mean profits, and you dont know how many people paid for tickets or at what fares.

Based on LAXINTL numbers in Reply 63, it seems ESB is often good 15-20 percent less yield versus IST.


Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 65):
Does this suggest that being less profitable than IST it is not profitable on a stand alone basis? Does a route in Turkey have to be more profitable than IST to be viable?

I think it comes down the the economic theory of opportunity cost.

Its like BA and why they don't do anything from MAN, or why IB left BCN to Vueling, or why AF is focused on Paris, and most recently LH is leaving flying outside FRA/MUC bases to others.

With limited resources a company needs to maximize their return and you go where you can make the most money.

Sure maybe some ESB routes might be profitable for TK, but IST is even more profitable.
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KarelXWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 8:19 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 46):
Here you go:
Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 46):
TC-JSN interior
Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):
The new batch of A321s (TC-JSN) onwards have 20J and 158Y. A clear tendency from TK to increase their J section on their planes.

Can someone update me on this new configuration? Are we talking about new Y and J seats, or just a capacity adjustment?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
SR4ever
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 9:03 am

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 61):
The way Ankara is developing with defense, space, health, education sectors and bomming industrial production/manufacturing, this city needs to be better connected to the world is the topic,

Very much agreed. Ankara is now much more than the Kemalist ideal city (kinda Anatolian Brasilia) which it was until the current economic boom started. Even the very East of Turkey is now changing, whereas it was really lagging behind the West.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 65):
On a related matter, the potential of Ankara is not limited to traffic figures ex-ESB becasue many pax, particularly to long distance international flights go to IST by car or train and then start their journey and this is a wider topic to discuss, so we should not solely rely on ESB traffic figures to assess true potential..

For those pax, YHT/HSR running to the best and final timetable will have a dual, contrasted effect:

- it will make it easier to access IST/SAW by rail from Ankara
- but will also affect travel plans of those flying ESB-IST/SAW to connect with international flights there, as some frequency cuts and downgauges can be expected on that domestic segment. And that means more potential for direct flights at ESB.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 66):
Based on LAXINTL numbers in Reply 63, it seems ESB is often good 15-20 percent less yield versus IST.

May still be woth it if TK can achieve good operating costs, and getting a rock-bottom deal from Comac or OAK would definitely help.

More importantly, such TK #3 et ESB would not start from scratch, as TK already operates some international flights at ESB. Something which it could build on.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 66):
I think it comes down the the economic theory of opportunity cost.

Its like BA and why they don't do anything from MAN, or why IB left BCN to Vueling, or why AF is focused on Paris, and most recently LH is leaving flying outside FRA/MUC bases to others.

With limited resources a company needs to maximize their return and you go where you can make the most money.

Sure maybe some ESB routes might be profitable for TK, but IST is even more profitable.

Opportunity cost is one thing, but lost opportunity cost should also be taken into account.

Suppose TK does not change strategies and ESB still keeps growing, then the vacuum will be filled by other companies.
This happened at MAN and LYS, after BA and AF had respectively scrapped their international flights. But in the meantime, both airports kept growing.

As far as LYS (and NCE, TLS) are concerned, LH Group now feels completely home there, and AF has lost a lot of pax there, much to the benefit of FRA/MUC/ZRH as hubs. Now the same is happening with TK in those airports (a 2nd daily flight IST-TLS should not come within too much time...). Same at MAN, where AFKL and the LHGroup now feel home.

As TK's growth has primarily been fuelled by internal demain rather than IST transit, it cannot ignore potential laying in other airports for too long, as it will be a new source of growth when IST becomes more mature.

Let's see what happens when EK finally sends a 332 at ESB and when AFKL is back there....

Talking about Istanbul, who would have though that SAW would be the base of a TK #2 10 years ago?

Next TKs should logically be:

TK #3 :ESB
TK #4: ADB
TK #5: cross-country routes between airports other than IST, SAW, ESB and ADB, using 70-100 seaters (jets and props)

TK will always have my respect for what it has been doing at IST in the past 10-15 years, but it should already have those "next steps" in mind if it wants to make the most of its promising internal market.
 
northstar80
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 10:00 am

so, there you go.. the long waited and talked about Miami route is announced:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...-haberleri/thy-miamiye-ucacak.html


(depending on aircraft availability, of course, as usual)
 
bmibaby737
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 10:28 am

Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):
The new batch of A321s (TC-JSN) onwards have 20J and 158Y. A clear tendency from TK to increase their J section on their planes.
Quoting Turkish777X (Reply 43):
I thought it was Y180? Planespotters.net wrote it.


Are the seats on the short haul aircraft just economy seats, with the middle seat blocked - or do Turkish Airlines actually have business class seats up the front... IE, is TC-JSN not just CY178?

[Edited 2015-05-06 03:30:52]
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 11:18 am

Istanbul Ataturk – Miami eff 25OCT15 Service resumption with 777-300ER aircraft on daily basis
TK077 IST1330 – 1930MIA 77W D
TK078 MIA2130 – 1630+1IST 77W D
 
Turkish777X
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 11:21 am

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 70):
Are the seats on the short haul aircraft just economy seats, with the middle seat blocked - or do Turkish Airlines actually have business class seats up the front... IE, is TC-JSN not just CY178?

Yes, true recliner seats. No middle seat empty:

http://www.seatplans.com/assets/Airl...mage473256-business_A3231_b_04.jpg
 
GRJGeorge
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 11:44 am

Also launching 3 weekly IST-JNB-MPM from 28 Oct...extending the IST-JNB flight...so the door is open for the other 4 weekly to be tag-on to DUR
 
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Yakamoz
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 11:55 am

North and South American Flights of TK;

North and South America Flights of TK
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 1:12 pm

-First of all congratulations to TK and MIA..
Is TK trying to undercut ME3 by going daily and 77W from the get go?

-In April's thread I was surprised that the new comer 77Ws to TK started revenue flights just after two days.
It has been 6 days since its delivery and TC-LJA hasn't started flying yet. Any ideas??

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 68):
TK will always have my respect for what it has been doing at IST in the past 10-15 years, but it should already have those "next steps" in mind if it wants to make the most of its promising internal market.

How will ESB stand on its own in 4-5 years when the new airport opens in Istanbul, TK has 100 more planes to turn it into a megahub, SAW has a subway connection, TK bases 100 frames and Pegasus there have another 50 A320NEOS, and when HSR and new crossing of the Izmit Bay with the new bridge attracts more and more Ankaralites to Istanbul?
I have a feeling TK is going to let Ajet serve the Ankara market and make its premium pax connect in its megahub. And if TK sees competition coming in from other carriers maybe (if TK sees fit), Ajet can go JetBlue way and keep its base at ESB and start offering Premium seats up front on certain markets.

Always exciting times for Turkish Aviation!!!!!
I can't wait to get into my TK2 J seat today  
Safe travels and happy landings to all.
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting northstar80 (Reply 69):

Congrats to TK and MIA.

Today DHMI published its numbers for April-2015. Numbers are not yet as good as 2014:

IST +6%
SAW +16%
ESB +4%
ADB +9%
AYT -1%
Turkey +7.2%

So we can expect TK to be around +7% as of April 2015. Pegasus is still performing over 10+ % growth.

It is perhaps still early, but AYT signals us that 2015 will not be a good tourism year.

By the way there is a very interesting development: SAW domestic passenger figure will soon pass IST domestic count. I think by 2017, SAW will become Turkey's the Biggest Domestic Terminal (of course if the trend continues). Here is the related domestic passenger figures as of April 2015:

IST : 5,875,874 (+4%)
SAW : 5,062,131 (+18%)
The future is in the skies.
 
stylo777
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting TK105 (Reply 76):
By the way there is a very interesting development: SAW domestic passenger figure will soon pass IST domestic count. I think by 2017, SAW will become Turkey's the Biggest Domestic Terminal (of course if the trend continues). Here is the related domestic passenger figures as of April 2015:

a LGA, ORY, HND, etc. of its kind; good job and congrats to PC, TK, XQ, etc. to make this happen!
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 10:11 pm

Happy to report that TK switched from AZ to LH lounges at JFK and what a huge difference.
Still looking forward to a TK lounge at JFK soon.
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 10:15 pm

Also happy to report that for the first time I went through TSA without taking shoes off, without taking laptop/jacket off for TK2. They must have some new machines
 
MAH4546
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 10:54 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 79):
Also happy to report that for the first time I went through TSA without taking shoes off, without taking laptop/jacket off for TK2. They must have some new machines

You got Precheck, which is now also being randomly assigned to anybody.
a.
 
miaintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Wed May 06, 2015 11:31 pm

Will TK compete with OS for Balkan traffic?
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 80):

I have Global Entry but you are saying this is totally random?
 
atal17
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 1:35 am

Anyone noticed this before? TK launching seasonal flights between TZX, AYT, YEI, ADB and KWI

TZX-KWI thrice a week between 16JUL - 03OCT
YEI-KWI twice a week between 18JUL - 02OCT
ADB-KWI once a week between 22JUL - 30SEP
AYT-KWI once a week between 19JUL - 04OCT
 
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TK787
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 2:44 am

Reporting from TK 2 in Business class and I have no other words but excellence. Great crew, awesome food , full flight and happy pax.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting TK787 (Reply 78):
Happy to report that TK switched from AZ to LH lounges at JFK and what a huge difference.

Too bad the LH JFK lounge is still one of their crappier ones. I think the best was when TK used the KE lounge at JFK.

Quoting atal17 (Reply 83):
Anyone noticed this before? TK launching seasonal flights between TZX, AYT, YEI, ADB and KWI

TZX-KWI thrice a week between 16JUL - 03OCT
YEI-KWI twice a week between 18JUL - 02OCT
ADB-KWI once a week between 22JUL - 30SEP
AYT-KWI once a week between 19JUL - 04OCT

Turkey is a hot tourist destination from Gulf states. TK also has similar service from host of cities to Saudi Arabia though most are sold as charters due to bilateral limitations.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 84):
Reporting from TK 2 in Business class and I have no other words but excellence. Great crew, awesome food , full flight and happy pax.

Enjoy it.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
TKA380
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 4:21 pm

Looks like a bird hit a 737 yesterday! Must've been big to do such damage to the nose cone.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...plane-carrying-125-passengers.html
 
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 4:23 pm

TK have a new advert. Saw it promoted on my Facebook news feed yesterday.

https://youtu.be/Wk7bhpuXg44
 
Turkish350XWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 5:00 pm

Does anybody have an idea if the afriqiyah A333s will get TK interiors? Or is it another seat configuration, again...?
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 5:51 pm

Quoting Turkish350XWB (Reply 88):
Does anybody have an idea if the afriqiyah A333s will get TK interiors? Or is it another seat configuration, again...?

And when will they enter revenue service?
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
ist2014
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 7:41 pm

I think 2 leased 333s will not be at TK cabin,
 
SR4ever
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Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting TK787 (Reply 75):
How will ESB stand on its own in 4-5 years when the new airport opens in Istanbul, TK has 100 more planes to turn it into a megahub, SAW has a subway connection, TK bases 100 frames and Pegasus there have another 50 A320NEOS, and when HSR and new crossing of the Izmit Bay with the new bridge attracts more and more Ankaralites to Istanbul?

New IST will have enough custom with the booming LH/MH transit flows, not to mention the steady growth of Istanbul point-to-point traffic.

ESB is definitely on the rise, and TK will have to do something before foreign airlines get too much footage there.

Quote:

Always exciting times for Turkish Aviation!!!!!

Indeed  
 
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mercure1
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Thu May 07, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 91):
ESB is definitely on the rise, and TK will have to do something before foreign airlines get too much footage there.

But why do they have to do something? Maybe TK is happy to leave ESB to others be it Turkish or foreign carriers as it focuses on what sounds like very profitable Istanbul bases.

No different than how BA ignores cities like MAN, IB ignored BCN, and AF pretty much ignores much anything outside Paris.

But anyhow, TK does have large defacto coverage in ESB already via Anadolujet.
mercure f-wtcc
 
bahadir
Posts: 1339
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 08, 2015 3:54 am

Flew onur air fra - Ist , su express (anadolujet) saw- asr and turkish asr-Ist all within last 5 days.
Conclusion : airlines in turkey lack a major IT infrastructure when it comes to web booking, apps, online checking and Onur air operation was akin to a bus terminal operation by Kamil koc , unlike my first experience with them 5 weeks ago.
I am even thinking about turning this whole ordeal into a column at kokpit.aero.

Lastly , I think whoever selects thy as the europes best airline, is getting free vacation to some resort in Antalya , all paid for by thy board. (This is a joke of course ). As usual, once again, it was pain in the ass to get a ticket change that I booked on thy.com. (I had to go to a ticket office )

This is non sense..
Earthbound misfit I
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 08, 2015 8:50 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 92):
But why do they have to do something? Maybe TK is happy to leave ESB to others be it Turkish or foreign carriers as it focuses on what sounds like very profitable Istanbul bases.

No different than how BA ignores cities like MAN, IB ignored BCN, and AF pretty much ignores much anything outside Paris.

This means a lot of traffic passed to competitors ultimately, although IB remains at BCN through VY, and AF in quite many provincial airports through KL. And we are talking of more mature markets than a booming city such as Ankara.

Serving ESB and ADB with other flights than to/from IST/SAW will also help TK to further build and secure customer loyalty, something not to be ignored as HSR will in the end divert custom flying ESB-IST/SAW to the rails. In the end, TK faces the same risk as AF if it keeps ignoring ESB and ADB, viz. losing daily contact with its provincial market, which will pave the way for competitors directly serving those airports.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 92):
But anyhow, TK does have large defacto coverage in ESB already via Anadolujet.

Anadolujet is more a joke than anything else as far as procduct is concerned
 
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LAXintl
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 08, 2015 2:29 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 94):
losing daily contact with its provincial market, which will pave the way for competitors directly serving those airports.

So what.

Like others have asked why does TK have to everywhere and chase after these smaller provincial markets?

Like BA is London Airways, TK can become Istanbul Airways essentially.

Let LCCs, or others flight over the markets, while TK focuses on owning 50% of the mega Istanbul market.

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 94):
Anadolujet is more a joke than anything else as far as procduct is concerned

Might be a joke for you, but its the thing that turned much of the loss making domestic network into breakeven.

If not for Ajet, TK would have left many domestic city-pairs long ago (and become even more IST centered).
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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TK105
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Fri May 08, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 95):
So what.
Like others have asked why does TK have to everywhere and chase after these smaller provincial markets?
Like BA is London Airways, TK can become Istanbul Airways essentially.

And result of BA's approach:

EK flies 2d A380 and 1d 77W to MAN, 2d 77W to BHX, 2d 77W to GLA and 1d 77W to NCL...
LH flies 7d to MAN, 6d to BHX.
etc...

TK made the same mistake at SAW by initially considering SAW as a "provincial" market and believed that Turkey is Istanbul and Istanbul is only IST. And result: We now have a new dominant player called Pegasus just in 6-7 years. Now TK is fighting back at SAW while SAW is destined to become the biggest domestic terminal in Turkey.

Turkish Market is growing rapidly. Within 10 years, airports like TZX, ADA, GZT may become bigger than most East European capitals' airports. Turkish "Provinces" need attention like countries. Forget about ESB, ADB, AYT, TK does not have any luxury to ignore even these group of airports. If you do not believe me, try flying out TZX one evening...

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 94):
Anadolujet is more a joke than anything else as far as procduct is concerned
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 95):
Might be a joke for you, but its the thing that turned much of the loss making domestic network into breakeven.

We can hardly classify Anadolujet as an LCC as you can not purchase any service on board. I think we can classify it as a BS-C : Basic Service Carrier. It is like bus services at countryside. I sometimes feel like it is a punishment for the market: "This is what you deserve" must be its secret slogan....

Obviously business model of Anadolujet can be improved a lot. ESB-SAW is a good segment for comparing TK, Pegasus and Anadolujet price-wise. On one way ESB-SAW segment, TK+AJet have 13 flights and Pegasus has 9 flights. I've randomly selected 15th of May (1 week later) Friday for price comparison. And results are as follows:

- Pegasus Economic Package is always expensive than AnadoluJet
- Pegasus Extra Package is always expensive than TK
- In the same time segments sometimes TK is cheaper than or very close in price to Anadolujet

So business model of Anadolujet in comparison to TK is confusing. As its price is not significantly lower in comparison to TK, it is definitely a joke, a new class in its category: BS-C...

And yes, Pegasus has built self confidence, has a loyal customer base and does not afraid TK at all.

Final word: We need a new Pegasus at ESB (Borajet ??) and another one at ADB (not Sunexpress unless it is liberated from TK) or a new TK with "provincial" management.
The future is in the skies.
 
SR4ever
Posts: 388
Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2010 6:19 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 09, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting TK105 (Reply 96):
Final word: We need a new Pegasus at ESB (Borajet ??) and another one at ADB (not Sunexpress unless it is liberated from TK) or a new TK with "provincial" management.

I d rather go for TK with self-contained operating units at ESB and ADB, that would strenghten the TK brand.

Actually, developping its non-IST internal market for TK should just mirror what it has done so well for the past 10yrs outside Turkey in general and in EMEA in particular: build a dense network on its own, with little need to code-share with others and risk diluting your brand and product (which makes even more sense as TK has almost been expelled from M&M and boycotted by LH and subs). A strong brand, a strong product, but also a strong network and customer base to get the most of it...
 
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TK105
Posts: 581
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RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 09, 2015 11:56 am

During IDEF2015, I had a chance to visit Ankara based defence company Havelsan and their new SkyFE in-flight entertainment system developed for TK. It works both on usual seat mounted displays as well as on your personal tablets and phones.

Here are some photos I took.

http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p682/UmutAydinOrtana/Idef15Hav1_zps1henzylm.jpg
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p682/UmutAydinOrtana/Idef15Hav2_zpspq1yk0zj.jpg
http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p682/UmutAydinOrtana/Idef15Hav3_zpsxmyjyc6v.jpg
The future is in the skies.
 
mict
Posts: 277
Joined: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:19 pm

RE: Turkish Aviation May 2015

Sat May 09, 2015 11:59 am

Did you get a chance to play with it?
How does it compare to the current IFE?

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