Qantas 747SP´s - Weird Routes Near The End?

cougar15 · Mon May 04, 2015 4:52 pm

Hi all,
just looking at the Image of the QF747SP on the front page of Avnet, got me thinking!
I recall a bunch of flights from PER to SIN around the late 80´s/ early ´90´s ! I just got into being an ´Avgeek´ back then, so at the time I did not realize the significance, but (checked my memerobillia box for the safety Cards I ´knicked´ (aehm... borrowed) I now realize that I was actually flying on a rare 747SP38.
How come QF used EAA and EAB on PER-SIN Sectors? seems an awfull lot of 'SP Aircraft´ for a sector that SQ was serving with A313´s at the time! Why use such a capable A/C on such a rather boaring /medium haul sector? seems like an awfull lot of ´aircraft capability´ for a 5 hr sector......
Does anyone recall this/know more about it?? cheers Mark

[Edited 2015-05-04 09:56:57]

[Edited 2015-05-04 10:16:53]

SpaceshipDC10 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Thread starter):
Qantas 747SP´s - Weird Routes In The End?

Late 80s/early 90s being "in the ends"? They were operated until 2001/2002.

Quoting cougar15 (Thread starter):
How come QF used EAA and EAB on PER-SIN Sectors?

QF used them to WLG too, due to the short runway there.

macsog6 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:12 pm

QF bought them to serve WLG, that route was their main purpose. In the end, I flew one from MNL-SYD.

If memory serves me correctly, they were the only RR powered SP's.

cougar15 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:12 pm

[quote=SpaceshipDC10,reply=1]QF used them to WLG too, due to the short runway there.

whoops, sorry - I did not realize how Long they were around, although after some Research, it does appear they spent time at PER just before the intermitant stop they had with QF´s Taiwan venture!
WLG - yes, knew about that one, runway length and local restrictions obviously being the reason/cause there.
Nonetheless, neither PER nor SIN suffered from the constraints WLG faced, so back to my original question, why such a capable Aircraft on what W.A. locals basically consider to be a ´regional run´, meaning PER-SIN??

seabosdca · Mon May 04, 2015 5:17 pm

Late in their careers, specialized aircraft with high seat-mile costs tend to end up with low utilization on odd short routes. Usually a newer aircraft has become capable of flying the original mission and the goal is to minimize costs. You see this today with Emirates' A345 flights to Kabul and Air India's remaining 777-200LR doing domestic fill-in duty.

SpaceshipDC10 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:20 pm

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 3):
why such a capable Aircraft on what W.A. locals basically consider to be a ´regional run´, meaning PER-SIN??

If you consider it through it's range, it might be surprising, but if you consider through the aircraft's number of seats, it may very well make sense. QF received their first B763 only in August 1988. So aside from their small fleet of 762, they only had 747s in the fleet for some time.

shuttle9juliet · Mon May 04, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):

I think Saudia had RB211 also on their SPs

cougar15 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 6):

I think Saudia had RB211 also on their SPs

indeed, only QF and Saudia as I recall. Great looking bird with those ´211´s on it

jfk777 · Mon May 04, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
If memory serves me correctly, they were the only RR powered SP's.

Saudia also had Rolls Royce 747SP's. They used to fly to JFK nonstop from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

kiwiandrew · Mon May 04, 2015 5:57 pm

I only got one flight on an SP. SYD-AKL in November 2000, I was very surprised to see it at the gate.

Auchmithie · Mon May 04, 2015 6:37 pm

Towards the end of their careers the two QANTAS SPs regularly operated on SYD-MNL (which routed via BNE one day per week), SIN-DRW-CNS and a short-lived SIN-BNE-TSV service.

XAM2175 · Mon May 04, 2015 11:58 pm

I beleive they also ended up on periodic PER-SYD/MEL rotations, like the 743s at the end of their times.

Both SPs (and B763 VH-OGA) spent 1990-1996 in the service of Australia Asia Airlines (IM / AAU), a QF company-of-convenience serving TPE.

mandala499 · Tue May 05, 2015 1:30 am

Had the pleasure of flying both SPs on their SYD-CGK-SIN runs... they were used on this route and SYD-DPS pretty often, as well as SYD-CGK-SIN (not the SYD-SIN directs)... it was a daily affair... except some weeks when it became 763, and in the peak of the holiday season, the 743 (which I avoided all but once, gimme the SP!). SYD-CGK used to have "whatever QF had left behind" thrown at us... once for about a month non-stop, we had VH-NLH the BA Hybrid.

a320fan · Tue May 05, 2015 4:28 am

The aircraft just does not look real. Looks photoshopped and very out of proportion. Almost looks like a toy in that image on the home page, Sorry to all those SP fans out there but it's very ugly! duck

Also surprised they were around so long. Always thought of them as an 80's aircraft.

[Edited 2015-05-04 21:29:50]

sq256 · Tue May 05, 2015 5:31 am

They flew QF51/QF52 almost exlusively at one point in the mid 90s. (sometime before Aust Asia was dissolved and shortly after) 1 or 2pw had a BNE-SYD tag and vice-versa (assumably for maintenance and/or positioning).

[Edited 2015-05-04 22:34:02]

anplatinum · Tue May 05, 2015 5:46 am

I was on the inaugural SP MEL-WLG flight. QF offered a F class seat to my employer and no one above me wanted it so I found a reason to do some work in WLG and it passed down to me. I was one row from the pointy end with a great view to the front and side.

jetwet1 · Tue May 05, 2015 5:48 am

Quoting a320fan (Reply 13):
The aircraft just does not look real. Looks photoshopped and very out of proportion. Almost looks like a toy in that image on the home page, Sorry to all those SP fans out there but it's very ugly!

So says the A320 fan...........

And yes, I love the SP

Gasman · Tue May 05, 2015 5:49 am

Quoting a320fan (Reply 13):
The aircraft just does not look real. Looks photoshopped and very out of proportion. Almost looks like a toy in that image on the home page, Sorry to all those SP fans out there but it's very ugly!

I'd take an alternate view - I think it's beauty lies in its uniqueness.

Don't forget also that this thing was a real sports car in terms of performance - all the power of a 742 but a fraction of the weight. This made it ideal for short runway ops (like WLG).

SQ773 · Tue May 05, 2015 9:24 am

Quoting gasman (Reply 17):
I think it's beauty lies in its uniqueness.

Indeed. The SP, either you love it or hate it. I love it

By the way, the photo looks real and its a fantastic shot, one of the best SP pictures I have ever seen, I must say.

DJMEL · Tue May 05, 2015 9:44 am

Yes the 747SP also operated SYD/BNE/CNS/HNL/LAX on the old QF25/26 Route in the the very late 80's early 90's as Dad was Airport Duty Manager when QF made CNS a hub! Now you can only get on a turboprop to POM it was a bit different then with Jumbo's of JAL and QF arriving and departing CNS every 15 mins to/from Japan and BNE/SYD!

babaero · Tue May 05, 2015 10:03 am

If Im not mistaken, both EAA and EAB even routed via LHR after maintenance in Ireland ( if I re-call early 90's)

musang · Tue May 05, 2015 3:49 pm

I decided in 2001 that I'd better get the SP box ticked. With a trip to Aus imminent, SIN-DRW-CNS was the obvious choice, but on two consecutive nights a -200 was substituted. I had no choice but to take it.

Later that year, looked at SAA. Went down to JNB in the knowledge that the SPs did the majority of BKK flights and some Sao Paulo, but it was decided at short notice. I didn't know the SP was on the BKK until the crew on my inbound -300 (my first and probably only) from CPT called ops for me. I was back in London after 3 nights on the road. Had a great time on the SP, being made very welcome by the flight deck crew.

Point is, the SPs with both carriers were slotted in as and when the loads/availability dictated.

Regards - musang

747400sp · Tue May 05, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 6):
Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
I think Saudia had RB211 also on their SPs

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 7):
Quoting shuttle9juliet (Reply 6):
I think Saudia had RB211 also on their SPs

indeed, only QF and Saudia as I recall. Great looking bird with those ´211´s on it

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):If memory serves me correctly, they were the only RR powered SP's.

Saudia also had Rolls Royce 747SP's. They used to fly to JFK nonstop from the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

Yes, they may have been the only two airlines to put RB211s on their 747sp, but QF was the only one to put the RB 211D4 on their 747sp's. The RB 211D4, was designed for the heavier weight 747 200s, where the RB 211C3 which powered Saudia 74Ls was not as powerful. If I am wrong, please nice correct me.

Viscount724 · Wed May 06, 2015 12:32 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 8):
Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
If memory serves me correctly, they were the only RR powered SP's.

Saudia also had Rolls Royce 747SP's.

The last SP built, a VIP aircraft for the Abu Dhabi Amiri Flight, also had R-R engines. That aircraft later went to the Bahrain Amiri Flight. It was built several years after the last airline SP.

Tomassjc · Wed May 06, 2015 12:36 am

I could have sworn I flew a QF SP SYD-PPT-LAX-SFO late 80s....but perhaps it was a Combi. Too long ago to remember!

Tomas SJC

eta unknown · Wed May 06, 2015 5:41 am

Quoting musang (Reply 21):
Point is, the SPs with both carriers were slotted in as and when the loads/availability dictated.

Correct. What was timetabled often had no correlation to what was parked at the gate towards the end of their days in the fleet- the SP's turned up everywhere.

Quoting cougar15 (Reply 3):
why such a capable Aircraft on what W.A. locals basically consider to be a ´regional run´, meaning PER-SIN??

Fuel was cheap.

Quoting macsog6 (Reply 2):
QF bought them to serve WLG, that route was their main purpose.

A lot has been written about this and truthfully I don't believe it. WLG didn't remain an SP route for long- soon they were operating MEL-SYD-SFO sectors.

Quoting sq256 (Reply 14):
They flew QF51/QF52 almost exlusively at one point in the mid 90s. (sometime before Aust Asia was dissolved and shortly after) 1 or 2pw had a BNE-SYD tag and vice-versa (assumably for maintenance and/or positioning).

Repositioning. I logged so many SYD-BNE sectors on the SP I lost count... max fellow pax load I ever encountered was 20.

ZK-NBT · Wed May 06, 2015 8:31 am

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 25):

A lot has been written about this and truthfully I don't believe it. WLG didn't remain an SP route for long- soon they were operating MEL-SYD-SFO sectors.

Pretty sure they ran WLG until they go the 762 in 1985, remember QF was an all 747 airline from 1979/85.

The SP's while not super regular did turn up in AKL on the daily QF43/44 which up until the early 2000s was generally a 747 classic everyday, I recall seeing the SP's a number of times. Never flown one though.

cougar15 · Wed May 06, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 25):

Repositioning. I logged so many SYD-BNE sectors on the SP I lost count... max fellow pax load I ever encountered was 20

that would have been a joy. infact, in searching, I found a few pics of them at FRA aswell, so it seems......

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 25):
Correct. What was timetabled often had no correlation to what was parked at the gate towards the end of their days in the fleet- the SP's turned up everywhere.

seems they really did turn up everywhere every once in a while ......

Motorhussy · Wed May 06, 2015 5:57 pm

Prior to the arrival of the 767, QF were a 747 only fleet and the 74L served a number of roles including being the smaller capacity aircraft where others would have used a DC-10, L1011, A300/310.

QF took the cancelled IR order due to the post-revolution export ban after the Shah's downfall - no doubt at a good price as they were in production already.

They were utilised for their short field performance - WLG - as well as their hot-and-high - JNB - and of course the long range capability.

I loved flying them WLG-SYD after NZ retired their DC-8 fleet.

cougar15 · Thu May 07, 2015 7:24 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28):
QF took the cancelled IR order due to the post-revolution export ban after the Shah's downfall - no doubt at a good price as they were in production already.

thats an interesting bit of history, never knew that, cheers mate

TN486 · Thu May 07, 2015 9:14 pm

I understand QF purchased the SP primarily to combat PAA's intention of flying them direct (non-stop) LA-SYDNEY. I think it was the only ac that could do the non-stop at the time. Wellington was in the equation, but not the primary reason for purchase. QF op two ac, VH EAA, and EAB. Histories of both ac in QF service can be found at www.aussieairliners.net

eta unknown · Thu May 07, 2015 10:34 pm

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 28):
I loved flying them WLG-SYD after NZ retired their DC-8 fleet.

When the DC8's were retired, did NZ maintain SYD-WLG or was the route suspended?

kiwiandrew · Thu May 07, 2015 10:48 pm

Quoting eta unknown (Reply 31):
When the DC8's were retired, did NZ maintain SYD-WLG or was the route suspended?

NZ had a codeshare on the QF operated services. There were no NZ operated services on SYD-WLG between the retirement of the DC-8 and the introduction of the 767.

TN486 · Thu May 07, 2015 11:32 pm

Further to my previous post I have located a QANTAS SCHEDULES dated "from Jun 87" (this was the QF advice to travel agents relating to provided services). 74L scheduling was as follows:
QF11 Mon,Thu SYD-LAX, QF3 Wed,Fri,Sun SYD-SFO. QF11 was a daily op, when not op by 74L it was a 742 via PPT or HNL. QF3 was also a daily op, when not op by 74L, it was a 742 via HNL. The Fri QF3 service originated MEL.

The return QF4 and 12 were a mirror reverse of the above. The Wed QF4 service terminated MEL.

The above scheduling reflects both ac being deployed full time on the Southern Cross route. A check of all QF WEL services show they were being op by 767.

Jackbr · Fri May 08, 2015 2:39 am

The SPs operated the SYD-PER-HRE route as well.

Max Q · Fri May 08, 2015 6:10 am

Love the Queen of the skies, my all time favourite Aircraft, all versions.

But the SP is something really special, as cool as they come, in January of 1981 I boarded a brand new Pan Am
version in Hong Kong and flew non stop to San Francisco.

As a confirmed aviation nut even then and a budding Pilot I found it very exciting, not to mention coming to America
for the first time.

Thirty four years later i'm still here but the SP is almost gone.

Glad they're still a few around.

aerokiwi · Fri May 08, 2015 10:11 am

I did a MEL-DPS sector in 1998. What I remember was the lack of personal aircon units and the all-male crew - apparently Victorians had a reputation for getting boozy, rowdy and all handsy... in that order

tim · Fri May 08, 2015 12:52 pm

Flew Perth to Africa quite often also and then on to Sydney each way

palmjet · Fri May 08, 2015 2:49 pm

When in Australia Asia colours in the mid 90s, both EAA and EAB would operate SYD-TPE along with TPE-CNS-BNE services. I flew both sectors with them in 1994-1995 - at that time, Y was upstairs. I think there were approx 30 seats.

cougar15 · Fri May 08, 2015 3:04 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 35):
But the SP is something really special, as cool as they come, in January of 1981 I boarded a brand new Pan Am version in Hong Kong and flew non stop to San Francisco.

yes, but of course there is a bit of a Story to the PA 747SP´s......

Quoting TN486 (Reply 30):
I understand QF purchased the SP primarily to combat PAA's intention of flying them direct (non-stop) LA-SYDNEY

yup, ´nail on the head´, but of course, those PA 747SP´s kinda got known as the (unofficial) ´one stop nonstop´ as the JT9´s were a bit thirstier that the RB211 Versions QF used.

the odd stop in Nadi, perhaps Honolulu... just not the same port every day so that the consumer doesn´t realize.......!
guess QF won that little battle Hands down.....

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