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Freshside3
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:22 am

Quoting GSP psgr (Reply 111):
It still seems really dumb that there isn't an airside shuttle that connects the T1/2/3 complex to T5 so that passengers don't have to reclear security again to catch their international flight. It's a stressful inconvenience, and I'm sure it affects a lot of connections.

You would think they would, especially with the volume of people they have going through ORD. Other airports have trains that are within the secured area.
 
elbandgeek
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 6:01 am

I didn't see this discussed anywhere else, but apparently WN is bringing back MDW-IND in January. Wasn't this one of the routes they cut because they wanted to get rid of "faster to drive" flights? What made them have a change of heart with it?
 
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HELyes
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:44 am

Finnair started seasonal HEL-ORD service (A333) in June, after AA axed the route. Finnair's video from the opening ceremony and inaugural flight to ORD, the passengers got some Chicago blues:

http://youtu.be/kd2sFo45M0o
 
ckfred
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:34 pm

Quoting jsnww81 (Reply 148):
The Traffic Management Authority is little more than a jobs-creation program. They don't solve or even help anything, and more often than not they just make things worse.

I wouldn't call TMA a jobs-creation program. It's more akin to being penny wise and pound foolish. The thought is that Chicago doesn't have enough police officers to handle traffic duty at ORD, Michigan Avenue, the Loop, and McCormick Place. So, you hire people who have no police power, i.e., the power to write tickets or arrest people, to direct traffic, while sworn officers patrol the neighborhoods. TMA employees earn far less than patrol officers with CPD, and I assume that some TMA employees are part-time.

The problem is that Chicago doesn't have enough money to pay for sworn officers to direct traffic at high-volume locations, let alone patrol the neighborhoods.

Clearly, there is a need for people to direct traffic, but the people who willingly want to stand outside, whether it's hot, cold, snowing, or raining, with little opportunity to advance to something better (say, driving a patrol car, working as a detective, or becoming a Sgt., Lt., or Captain) probably aren't going to be the people who you want directing traffic.
 
masgniw
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:44 pm

The TMA employees are a complete joke. I worked in Streeterville and the TMA officers often created more chaos than they solved. They'd frequently wave people through lights and cause extra gridlock, doing a WORSE job than the traffic lights that diligently work just fine, rain and shine.

There was one officer who would eschew her duties and just sit under the awning against the Children's Hospital against a planter and just smoke cigarettes. It's one thing to avoid work, it's another to blow smoke in the faces of families headed to and from the hospital.
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:02 pm

I think the TMA people could be useful but it is a matter of training and supervision - and there appears to be zero of either...
 
TWAL1011
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:07 pm

TMA jobs are hand outs to the south and west side pastors in exchange for votes. Added benefit is they are much cheaper than sworn officers. Downside is they create more traffic chaos.
 
nomorerjs
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:49 pm

First A380 gate in T5 will start in October after peak summer season. Depending on winter weather, it will be ready in time for Summer 16 with BA as the first flight. LH is questionable as they like departing T1, which will not have a 380 gate next summer. EK is expected to announce 380 service next year as well. We will see if QR and/or EY follow.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 07, 2015 5:03 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
. Depending on winter weather, it will be ready in time for Summer 16 with BA as the first flight. LH is questionable as they like departing T1, which will not have a 380 gate next summer. EK is expected to announce 380 service next year as well. We will see if QR and/or EY follow.

So BA and EK are bringing the whale, possibly LH too. Whither the 747 at ORD?
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 07, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
First A380 gate in T5 will start in October after peak summer season.

What gate will be reconfigured to A380-standard?
 
airplanedaj
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 07, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
First A380 gate in T5 will start in October after peak summer season

My bigger question is will they be able to modify one to A380 status without affecting the other gates. Isn't ORD typically at peak gate utilization at T5?
 
ORDfan
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
First A380 gate in T5 will start in October after peak summer season. Depending on winter weather, it will be ready in time for Summer 16 with BA as the first flight. LH is questionable as they like departing T1, which will not have a 380 gate next summer. EK is expected to announce 380 service next year as well. We will see if QR and/or EY follow.

This is great news, albeit long overdue. LH does pose an interesting question though: with DUS being idled for long-haul, I have a hard time believing LH would be okay with losing both seats and frequency (3x/day vs 4x/day) on ORD-Germany. I'm thinking that they'll add a 2nd MUC daily or some combination of A380, 748/744, A346/A333 divided between MUC and FRA? It is an interesting dilemma for them though: keeping strictly to T1 vs being able to bring the A380... maybe they'll get it at T1 someday?

[Edited 2015-07-16 18:17:23]
 
jcwr56
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:28 pm

Quoting airplanedaj (Reply 160):
Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
First A380 gate in T5 will start in October after peak summer season

My bigger question is will they be able to modify one to A380 status without affecting the other gates. Isn't ORD typically at peak gate utilization at T5?

Simple answer is no, they won't. Other gates will be modified to keep 13 jumbo gates available. With AA announcing FCO going to a 777 for S16, FI starting up late March, BR hopefully following through on their startup, MU looking to relaunch ORD, plus at least one new rumored UA route there's questions being asked was the 380 gate really the best move.

In all reality, there will be zero 380 operations at T5 between 1200-2000 since no 380 operator can impact historical flights. Kinda defeats any commercial benefits to fly one in doesn't it?

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 161):
LH does pose an interesting question though: with DUS being idled for long-haul, I have a hard time believing LH would be okay with losing both seats and frequency (3x/day vs 4x/day) on ORD-Germany. I'm thinking that they'll add a 2nd MUC daily or some combination of A380, 748/744, A346/A333 divided between MUC and FRA? It is an interesting dilemma for them though: keeping strictly to T1 vs being able to bring the A380... maybe they'll get it at T1 someday?

This is exactly what LH is looking at currently. Keep the split T5/T1 or move back to T5.
 
ORDfan
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Jul 18, 2015 6:26 pm

I understand why LH likes being in T1: it's easy for feeding connecting passengers from UA domestic flights and given UA/LH strong partnership within Star, it makes total sense. However, being admittedly biased as an ORD O&D passenger, I wouldn't mind seeing them come back to T5. After the recent remodel, T5 is a joy for international travelers and I think LH customers would appreciate an improved lounge and overall terminal experience there.
 
rta
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Jul 25, 2015 11:14 pm

The 3rd annual Midway Fly Away 5K Run/Walk is scheduled for September 13th.
http://www.flychicago.com/business/E.../pages/NewsDetail.aspx?ItemID=1208
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:12 am

Does anyone know why most heavy arrivals at ORD are handled on 09R/27L? It is extremely rare that anything larger than a 757 lands on 09L/27R, even though both runways are nearly* the same length/width.

* circa 500 feet difference
 
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kordcj
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:29 pm

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 165):
Does anyone know why most heavy arrivals at ORD are handled on 09R/27L? It is extremely rare that anything larger than a 757 lands on 09L/27R, even though both runways are nearly* the same length/width.

I've noticed many heavies landing on nothing but 10C/28C lately. I assume it's the preferred runway for T5 arrivals.
The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
 
jcwr56
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:38 am

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 165):

Does anyone know why most heavy arrivals at ORD are handled on 09R/27L? It is extremely rare that anything larger than a 757 lands on 09L/27R, even though both runways are nearly* the same length/width.

This weekend 10/28R was closed for construction, so you were probably seeing that as the main reason why. 10/28C was being used for departures.
 
liftsifter
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Jul 27, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 163):
an improved lounge

Where? EK wants to build a lounge but there's no where to put it without major construction.
A300 A310 A319 A320 A321 A332 A333 A342 A343 A346 A380 B736 B737 B738 B744 B763 B77L B77E B77W B788 E190
 
Chisky16
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 28, 2015 3:32 am

Can someone confirm that Sun Country is leaving MDW this fall? Saw this on another thread I believe. Also, I heard a rumor of Porter shifting its operations to ORD? ...taking this with a grain of salt, however. I still am hopeful that either JetBlue or Virgin will start operating out of Midway in the future.  Terminal 3 is visibly overcrowded with B6, VX, and NK and F9 persistently adding flights. Every morning there is utter chaos as these airlines have passengers lug their checked bags to a TSA screening point near Checkpoint 9. This creates a massive line, which gets entangled with the F9, B6, and VX check in lines, not to mention the overwhelmed security line. Some days this backlogs half way through Terminal 3. Total disorganization and chaos. This makes me wonder why checked luggage screening can't be done underneath the terminal, like it is done in all other airports, and terminals at ORD, so that bags can be loaded on belts instead of having confused passengers haul everything to an X-Ray machine.
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:42 am

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 169):
Terminal 3 is visibly overcrowded with B6, VX, and NK and F9 persistently adding flights. Every morning there is utter chaos as these airlines have passengers lug their checked bags to a TSA screening point near Checkpoint 9. This creates a massive line, which gets entangled with the F9, B6, and VX check in lines, not to mention the overwhelmed security line. Some days this backlogs half way through Terminal 3. Total disorganization and chaos. This makes me wonder why checked luggage screening can't be done underneath the terminal, like it is done in all other airports, and terminals at ORD, so that bags can be loaded on belts instead of having confused passengers haul everything to an X-Ray machine.

Then head over to Terminal 2 and pre-security and baggage claim it's deserted. Only Air Canada (/Air Canada Express) and Delta (/Delta Connection) operate from there now.
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 164):
The 3rd annual Midway Fly Away 5K Run/Walk is scheduled for September 13th.
http://www.flychicago.com/business/E.../pages/NewsDetail.aspx?ItemID=1208

Are they going to do a run/walk at ORD this fall for the new southern runway 10R/28L?
 
ZBA2CGX
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:44 am

Quoting United787 (Reply 171):
Are they going to do a run/walk at ORD this fall for the new southern runway 10R/28L?

yes, see the below link
http://www.visioneventmanagement.com/pages/ohare-run.php
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:43 pm

Quoting ZBA2CGX (Reply 172):
yes, see the below link
http://www.visioneventmanagement.com/pages/ohare-run.php

Thanks! They say this will be on 10C (opened last fall), which is great because it will be close to all the action, but I am surprised it won't be on the new one 10R (opening this fall).
 
wnflyguy
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 169):

Sun County has had talks about shifting all flights Chicago's Gary IN airport.

Porter is not going anywhere.
But all airlines may soon only dump and tow from the 3 international gates and board from other gates to get better utilization for future WN international destination from MDW.

A lot of talk about some gate shuffling going on at MDW in the next year.

Latest news is the NEW Eastern has had talks about future operations from MDW to Florida.

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kordcj
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:18 pm

I assume the city is saving the big news about ORD terminal expansion for another day to let MDW have its glory. Anyone have a link to what the upgraded terminal at MDW will look like? Great news about the orange line going 24hrs.

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 174):
Latest news is the NEW Eastern has had talks about future operations from MDW to Florida.

Is there anywhere for the new Eastern to park at MDW?
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting kordcj (Reply 175):
I assume the city is saving the big news about ORD terminal expansion for another day

I hope so, I have to believe that the city, AA and UA are negotiating in the background...
 
ORDfan
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:35 pm

Quoting kordcj (Reply 175):
I assume the city is saving the big news about ORD terminal expansion for another day to let MDW have its glory. Anyone have a link to what the upgraded terminal at MDW will look like? Great news about the orange line going 24hrs.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel...ion-plan--midway-airport/31224305/

Link above has a few images. Looks like they are going they are planning on expanding the area over Cicero. I'm pretty impressed by this announcement: seems like the city is staying 'a step ahead', especially given the existing terminal is "only" 11 years old. Granted it can feel crowded at times. Anyway, I'm excited to see this type of continued critical infrastructure spending across Chicagoland.

Quoting United787 (Reply 176):


I hope so, I have to believe that the city, AA and UA are negotiating in the background...

I hope so too. A friend and colleague who works at United has told me that there has been a lot of talk about upgrading/remodeling T1 recently, and if United is hoping to see any city funding, I'm sure it will have to give some way on things the city wants (like a Western terminal, expanded T5/T6?). I think the Elgin-O'hare Western Access is truly the beginning of this process. I imagine the same would be true for AA if they ever hope to remodel T3 as well.

[Edited 2015-08-08 09:15:28]
 
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kngkyle
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:56 pm

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 177):
I hope so too. A friend and colleague who works at United has told me that there has been a lot of talk about upgrading/remodeling T1 recently, and if United is hoping to see any city funding, I'm sure it will have to give some way on things the city wants (like a Western terminal, expanded T5/T6?). I think the Elgin-O'hare Western Access is truly the beginning of this process. I imagine the same would be true for AA if they ever hope to remodel T3 as well.

Here would be my ideal scenario:

Step 1: 2017-2020
Build a new western terminal complex for United & Star Alliance with FIS. (UA happy)

Step 2: 2020-2022
T1 vacated, remodeled, FIS added. AA and Oneworld move operations here once complete. (AA happy)

Step 3: 2022-2024
Previous AA T3 space is modernized and will remain for Skyteam and unaffiliated. (all others happy)

Step 4: 2024-2025
T2 is demolished, land remains available for future expansion / hard stands / etc.

T5 remains as is for Skyteam and unaffiliated international ops.


All construction is done to non-operational terminals, saving time and money by not having to juggle millions of passengers during the renovations. There is little need to connect terminals air-side since each alliance has their own terminal. The ATS would need to be extended from T1, underground to Western Terminal, then back to T3 and T5. Based on the LaGaurdia plan costing an estimated $4 billion, I'd say this would cost in the range of $6-$8 billion.
 
jcwr56
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:25 pm

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 178):
I'd say this would cost in the range of $6-$8 billion.

Look at the cost of the MDW project...then look at your number again.

The enabling projects alone would be in this range.

Here, the enabling projects for the new 9/27C runway are ranging in about $1Billion right now. That's not the cost of the actual runway itself plus the extension the city wants to do on 9/27L.

So you're asking AA and UA through airport rates and charges to fund 4.5 terminals and in the end they'll really use one each, plus the cost of the new runway the city is still pushing for?

The current long term leases don't expire till May 2018 and to my knowledge there's been little to no formal talks by anyone.

We can dream....
 
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AmricanShamrok
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 178):
Step 1: 2017-2020
Build a new western terminal complex for United & Star Alliance with FIS. (UA happy)

Step 2: 2020-2022
T1 vacated, remodeled, FIS added. AA and Oneworld move operations here once complete. (AA happy)

Step 3: 2022-2024
Previous AA T3 space is modernized and will remain for Skyteam and unaffiliated. (all others happy)

Step 4: 2024-2025
T2 is demolished, land remains available for future expansion / hard stands / etc.

T5 remains as is for Skyteam and unaffiliated international ops.

That makes a lot of sense. In that scenario, here's what it would look like with today's airlines:

Terminal 1
Aer Lingus
Air Berlin
American Airlines
American Eagle
British Airways
Cathay Pacific
Finnair
Iberia
Japan Airlines
Qatar Airways
Royal Jordanian

Terminal 3
Air Choice One
Alaska Airlines
Delta Air Lines (domestic)
Delta Connection
Frontier Airlines (domestic)
JetBlue Airways
Spirit Airlines
Virgin America
WestJet

Terminal 4 (assuming western terminal will be called this)
Air Canada
Air Canada Express
Air India
All Nippon Airways
Asiana Airlines
Austrian Airlines
Avianca El Salvador
Copa Airlines
LOT Polish Airlines
Lufthansa
Scandinavian Airlines
Swiss International Air Lines
Turkish Airlines
United Airlines
United Express

Terminal 5
Air France
Alitalia
Cayman Airways
Delta Air Lines (international)
Emirates
Etihad Airways
Frontier Airlines (international)
Hainan Airlines
Icelandair
Korean Air
Virgin Atlantic
Volaris
 
ORDFlyer99
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 178):

This is would be best case scenario, but I think that remodeling T1 is the least of ORD's worries. Expanding T5 further east should be their next course of action to accommodate further international expansion. After that, rebuild the L concourse and build a new concourse north of it, and tear down that building (I'm forgetting what it is used for) to build T4 to accomodate Spirit, Virgin, Alaska, Jetblue, WestJet, Frontier, and maybe Delta if there is enough space.

But then again, neither UA or AA have done any major terminal expansions at ORD since T1, so it's probably time given their profitability.
 
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kngkyle
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 10:47 pm

Quoting ORDFlyer99 (Reply 181):
This is would be best case scenario, but I think that remodeling T1 is the least of ORD's worries. Expanding T5 further east should be their next course of action to accommodate further international expansion. After that, rebuild the L concourse and build a new concourse north of it, and tear down that building (I'm forgetting what it is used for) to build T4 to accomodate Spirit, Virgin, Alaska, Jetblue, WestJet, Frontier, and maybe Delta if there is enough space.

But then again, neither UA or AA have done any major terminal expansions at ORD since T1, so it's probably time given their profitability.

Expanding T5 is unnecessary in my plan, since Star Alliance and Oneworld would no longer be using it, there would be plenty of capacity for further international expansion. Terminal 1 is certainly not in bad shape and wouldn't require a complete overhaul, but it could certainly use some fixing up, especially in 7 years which is when that would actually start according to my rough time line. You have to remember, any large scale project like this will take years and years and years to plan, be approved, and construct. So you shouldn't just look at the condition of the terminal now, but rather the condition it will be in after another 10 years of use.

Your proposal is certainly a cheaper way to add a few gates in the short-term. And it would certainly suffice for say, 10 years. But if you want to plan for the long-term (30+ years) then that requires more like what I proposed. However, given the nature of politics, I'd say your idea is far more likely.

[Edited 2015-08-08 15:48:30]
 
ORDFlyer99
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:19 pm

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 182):

I agree with everything you've said, but AA and UA won't put up the money for so many facilities that they won't use. I'd love to see something similar to your plan happen, but a new concourse north of L and expanding 5 could be done by 2020 and cost billions less. Maybe if the time frame is stretched a little, completed a little after 2030, your scenario would be more feasible.

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 180):

Since T1 is bigger than T3, I think that AA and Alaska would like to share gates given their partnership.
 
maxholstemh1521
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Aug 09, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 178):
Step 1: 2017-2020
Build a new western terminal complex for United & Star Alliance with FIS. (UA happy)

Step 2: 2020-2022
T1 vacated, remodeled, FIS added. AA and Oneworld move operations here once complete. (AA happy)

Step 3: 2022-2024
Previous AA T3 space is modernized and will remain for Skyteam and unaffiliated. (all others happy)

Step 4: 2024-2025
T2 is demolished, land remains available for future expansion / hard stands / etc.

T5 remains as is for Skyteam and unaffiliated international ops.

The one thing that has always kind of concerned me about the western complex is access from the city. If ORD had a layout similar to ATL where every air side terminal was connected pretty conveniently to both land side terminals I think it would make sense. This may hurt UA or whoever takes over the western terminal since accessing the city is more of a challenge since it used to be. That being said if the city builds the western terminal your plan seems very logical.

Quoting ORDFlyer99 (Reply 183):
Since T1 is bigger than T3, I think that AA and Alaska would like to share gates given their partnership.

Terminal 1 has 50 gates right now according to Wikipedia (I realize not the most reliable source). Concourses G, H, K, combined have 59 gates according to Wikipedia. Terminal 1 would need some expansion to fit AA in based on what they currently have. I realize gates can be rearranged, and possibly more RJ gates could be squeezed in. The other issue might be not enough wide body gates, which again is fixable either through expansion, or rearranging the jet bridges.
It's not a Beaver
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Aug 09, 2015 3:35 am

Quoting Kngkyle (Reply 178):
Step 2: 2020-2022
T1 vacated, remodeled, FIS added. AA and Oneworld move operations here once complete. (AA happy)

UA would burn T1 to the ground before they let AA take over their architectural icon. Any western terminal would be much less desirable than a terminal with ground-side access from the City or the subway.

The only way a western terminal would be feasible is if it were common use and both AA and UA (plus OW and Star) used it for Int'l ops (arrival and departure) or domestic overflow. There'd have to be reliable transport between T1 and T3 to the western terminal and shuttle buses would be more than adequate. Underground trains simply aren't worth the investment IMO

The space freed up at T5 could accommodate the smaller LCCs or non-aligned carriers.
 
elbandgeek
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:16 pm

The issue I keep seeing with the west terminal is who is it really for. It's supposed to be "convenient" for people coming from the west but then inconveniences people already coming from other directions. If it's a hub for UA or AA then they're inconveniencing their existing base and if it's for LCCs does it really matter? More gates are needed and I think a T6/expansion of T5 will cover that. I feel like what they really need for 1-3 is to is utilize existing space better. As they're moving away from 50 seaters, they should get rid of the RJ specific gates and have more that can accommodate a mix of mainline and RJs, even if there is a small net drop in the total number of gates.

I feel they could do that by rebuilding T2 for international and then converting the existing widebody gates to allow UAX to move to C. Delta could move to T6 but then the problem is what to do with UAX in the meantime. I could see either building it in phases while leaving a portion of F open or building a temporary facility, perhaps a D concourse west of T1 once 32L/14R is closed. Either way would kind of suck for UAX passengers, but it's not like it doesn't suck for them already.
 
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yeogeo
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Tue Aug 11, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting elbandgeek (Reply 186):
Either way would kind of suck for UAX passengers, but it's not like it doesn't suck for them already.

Thanks for thinking of us!  

United has put a lot of money into the T2 passenger experience lately; UA's going to live with it at least for the medium term - and I can too -that's from a flyer from a small spoke that transfers 90% of the time through T2.

Recently they've adding new seating with outlets at the gates, a larger, remodeled customer service center, new gates on the terminal (E1 and F1-3) which seem to have helped with congestion and they've installed more jet bridges to the point of never having to board from the apron.

Best of all they've built in T2 the best United Club in the airport in, if not in the whole system.

Yes, the hallways are crowded and there are often long walks, but saying it sucks is, IMO, an exaggeration.

Its certainly better than it used to be, with power outlets attracting sitters in the hallway, a tiny Customer Service center and the most miserable UA Club you could imagine.

yeo
 
ORDfan
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Aug 16, 2015 4:34 pm

Here's an interesting article that ran last week in the WSJ. Cargo tonnage volumes are up significantly y-o-y. First half growth way outpacing national trends. Even slowing growth to 7.1% is still incredible in such a mature market.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/shipping...-chicagos-ohare-airport-1439154215
 
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yeogeo
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:05 pm

First Finnair at ORD in database:


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matt Kostelnick



Scheduled at O'Hare from18:40 to 22:00 hrs -Its only operating 2/5/7 through 17 October, so good catch, Matt Kostelnick!

Any word on how they're doing, Anyone?

yeo
 
ckfred
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Aug 30, 2015 6:45 pm

Quoting kordcj (Reply 166):

Quoting AmricanShamrok (Reply 165):
Does anyone know why most heavy arrivals at ORD are handled on 09R/27L? It is extremely rare that anything larger than a 757 lands on 09L/27R, even though both runways are nearly* the same length/width.

I've noticed many heavies landing on nothing but 10C/28C lately. I assume it's the preferred runway for T5 arrivals.

I flew in from LHR earlier this month (8/10) on a BA 773, and we landed on 27L.

Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 157):
Depending on winter weather, it will be ready in time for Summer 16 with BA as the first flight.

I just looked at the AA website for ORD-LHR during July of 2016. It's showing AA flying 2 772s and 2 763 (the early and late departures out of ORD) and BA flying a 744 and a 773.

If BA were to swap out the 744 for the A380, and AA adds the second 763 next summer, that is a significant increase in seats.

Quoting jcwr56 (Reply 162):
Simple answer is no, they won't. Other gates will be modified to keep 13 jumbo gates available. With AA announcing FCO going to a 777 for S16, FI starting up late March, BR hopefully following through on their startup, MU looking to relaunch ORD, plus at least one new rumored UA route there's questions being asked was the 380 gate really the best move.

In all reality, there will be zero 380 operations at T5 between 1200-2000 since no 380 operator can impact historical flights. Kinda defeats any commercial benefits to fly one in doesn't it?

The only way that BA could bring in the A380, if this scenario is accurate, is for AA and BA to realign their afternoon and evening departures. Right now, the afternoon and evening departures are as follows:

AA86 at 5:00 (772)

BA294 at 6:10 (744)

AA86 at 6:20 (772)

BA296 at 8:35 (773)

AA98 at 10:00 (763)

If BA moved its 773 departure to the 6pm slot, AA moved up its late 763 to 8:30, and BA then handled the 10pm departure with the A380 (which would arrive at T5 from LHR around 8pm), that would keep the A380 out of T5 during the 12noon to 8pm time frame. But, does BA want an A380 arriving at LHR the next day at noon?

As for expansion or reconfiguring the terminals, here is the one glaring issue. If a terminal is built on the west side of the field, that creates 3 problems. First is connecting the terminal to the other terminals and remote parking/rental car garage. Ideally, the airport train system would leave Terminal 1, go underground, and arrive at the western terminal. But digging a tunnel under the existing field would be very, very expensive.

You could run the train tracks from the western terminal along the perimeter of the field to the north and east, connecting into the current tracks at the rental car garage that is being built. But, that makes for a long ride for someone connecting from a flight arriving at the western terminal to a departure out of T1. Even connecting between the western terminal and T5 is a long ride.

Second issue is connecting bags. To get a bag from the western terminal to any of the other terminals might require a tunnel, simply because that is an awful long trek for tugs pulling baggage carts.

Third issue is the fact that York Rd/Elmhurst Rd, the street on the west side of the field, doesn't have a full interchange at I-90. Yes, there is talk of building a connector between I-294, south of ORD, and I-90, to the northwest of ORD. But, roadway talk can extend for years, before the first shovel of dirt is turned.

Further, I'm not sure you could build a terminal on the west side of the field that could handle the operations of UA. I'm not sure there is enough room there to build a terminal that could handle all of UA mainline and Express. Even a terminal large enough to handle AA's operation would be an issue. It could probably handle the current volume of operations at G, H, K, and L, but that leaves no room for growth.

Remember that when Terminal 1 opened, it was large enough to handle UA's operation, assuming that every flight was arriving and departing on time. But, the schedule had problems because of delays at ORD or elsewhere, then it needed to put flights in the penalty box. That's why UA held onto some of the gates on E.
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:03 pm

I always thought you could get rid of 14R/32L and 4L/22R and then UA could add a large "D" concourse west of the "C" concourse but 50% bigger. That concourse could have FIS facilities so all of Star Alliance flights could be handled there as well as moving all of the E & F regional jets out there. It could be connected to "C" and "B" with an underground train (maybe one that could connect all of the terminals jetside).

Then T5 could be extended to the east with some A380 gates.

And then concourses E, F and G could be replaced with new concourses but T2 stays since that was redone recently anyway.

OneWorld FIS could go in F or stay in T5.

[Edited 2015-09-02 10:05:28]
 
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jetblastdubai
Posts: 1975
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:43 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 191):
I always thought you could get rid of 14R/32L and 4L/22R

Having worked there for years, I concur with part of your observation. Getting rid of 4L/22R would clear up a lot of usable space for terminal expansion at ORD. I believe 32L/14R is earmarked to disappear anyway.

http://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/1509/00166ad.pdf

Easing terminal congestion and reducing gate restrictions would go a long way towards increasing capacity in addition to physically adding new terminals or gates.

Looking at the above link with the airport layout...if I were King and able to make suggestions:

Close 4L but instead of removing it, make it the new "B" taxiway south of 27L. It would end at runway 27L and become the first high-speed exit off the runway (eliminate A1) thus eliminating the confliction with traffic exiting the United north port and landing traffic exiting 27L. The new "B" would continue southwest bound until joining taxiway "T" (near T6). The current "T" would become the new "B" between T6 and T10. At T10, the taxiway would turn east and rejoin the original taxiway "B". With the new taxiway "B" moved out, the original taxiway "B" would become the new 'inner' (A) between A1 and A10.

With this change, the ramp on the west side of concourse C would be expanded so that each gate on the west side of concourse C would be able to accommodate widebody aircraft without infringing on taxiway "A" during pushbacks.

By keeping 4L open, the terminal expansion options are more limited because the protected airspace/critical areas are located where the most logical additional gates would be. Keep in mind, you also need to get the planes to/from the new western terminal and the existing terminals. Crossing a runway (4L) to do so isn't the best option in most cases.
 
elbandgeek
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:35 pm

The D concourse idea is one I've thought about a lot too. I don't even think it would require closing 4L entirely either. They could just shorten it the way they did 32L. Heavies were never going to be using it much anyway so I doubt it would be much of a loss. It'd probably end up no shorter than any of the runways at MDW. A D concourse would give them somewhere to put UAX so they can rebuild T2, presumably with FIS.
 
ckfred
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting United787 (Reply 191):

I always thought you could get rid of 14R/32L and 4L/22R and then UA could add a large "D" concourse west of the "C" concourse but 50% bigger. That concourse could have FIS facilities so all of Star Alliance flights could be handled there as well as moving all of the E & F regional jets out there. It could be connected to "C" and "B" with an underground train (maybe one that could connect all of the terminals jetside).

The grand plane for the airfield has 6 parallel east-west runways, 3 to the north of the terminal complex and 3 to the south.

While both northwest-southeast parallel runways are slated to be closed, both northeast-southwest parallel runways are set to stay, for use primarily when strong crosswinds create operational problems for aircraft landing from the east or west.

Yes, getting rid of 4L-22R would allow UA to build a D concourse. Apparently, the experts feel that having 2 northeast-southwest runways is better than having 4R-22L and 14L-32R.
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:49 pm

http://chicago.curbed.com/archives/2...-the-ctas-brown-and-blue-lines.php

I have long been an advocate of this idea. It would give a large wealthy population more direct public transportation to the ORD, mainly River North, Gold Coast, Lincoln Park & Lakeview. I live in Old Town and traffic getting to the Kennedy and on the Kennedy is terrible and getting worse. I live a block from the Brown Line...but to get to the Blue Line is either a long bus ride down North Ave. or going downtown to Clark and Lake and then back out.
 
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yeogeo
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sat Sep 12, 2015 2:15 pm

Has anyone noticed this pitch related to a western access to O'Hare?

http://choosedupage.com/western-access-ohare/

This effort seems intent on making the suburbs west of ORD more convenient to the existing east access, but I suppose that if the western development of the airfield were ever realized, they would be in a good position to take advantage of that.



yeo



[Edited 2015-09-12 08:04:34]
 
ORDfan
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 20, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting yeogeo (Reply 196):

Yea this project has already started. I believe that website is a couple of years old and was designed during the proposal stage. I drove down Thorndale a week ago: many buildings in the path of the highway have been demolished and large expanses of land cleared for the highway.

On a totally separate note: I recently came back from an overseas trip and passed through T5 again. I truly believe that the passenger and lounge experience beyond security is totally world-class now (perhaps not on par with some of the newest Asian or ME airports, but certainly on par with most European airports or anything else we have here domestically). However, I must say, that while I love the current departure hall, the situation per-security is decidedly less-so. The lines of passengers along the corridor in either direction of the security booth are getting longer and more ridiculous with each passing year, especially as T5 booms with new carriers and more service every year. Endless throngs of passengers in security lines block the checkin areas for most of the day, it seems, and I on a recent trip with an early afternoon departure, I had to start in line at very end of the terminal! It took almost an hour to clear through security.

I think this was a huge planning error on the part of the remodeling design team - to move the security booths so far 'up' from their previous location closer to the gates. Sure the added space is beneficial for passengers post check-in, but the experience prior to passing security has been made worse. So what's the net benefit/cost to the overall experience? The current situation feels short-sighted, even temporary (hopefully?)- does anyone know of any plans to alleviate these lines?
 
jcwr56
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Jul 04, 2012 11:36 am

RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Sun Sep 20, 2015 9:06 pm

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 197):

The resigned checkpoint was done in consultation with the Airlines, City, TSA and a few other groups. Everyone signed off on the fact it would produce a better customer experience and it did until the TSA decided to change their staffing and screening process without reaching out the the airlines. What you see now is the result of our Government at work on busy days.

The same with baggage being screened after checkin. I'll say this, more and more bags are now flagged for secondary but the TSA doesn't adjust staffing levels to process and manage the flow.

There's talk of finishing out some of the empty spaces for airline lounges and additional retail on the ends of the terminal. M1-M5 doesn't have space, but the rotunda does. The same with M13-M21.
 
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United787
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RE: FlyChicago | ORD+MDW Aviation Thread

Mon Sep 21, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting ORDfan (Reply 197):
I recently came back from an overseas trip and passed through T5 again. I truly believe that the passenger and lounge experience beyond security is totally world-class now

My wife just went through T5 last week and noticed the same thing, congrats to ORD, I can't wait to see it myself but I rarely fly out of the T5 terminal...mostly arriving.

Has anyone noticed that the cell phone lot has been relocated? The old one was so far (near the Metra station), I never used it. I used to goto a maintenance lot on Schlitz Road and watch the planes land on 27L but the enforcement was getting more aggressive. Now they have a lot just north of my old illegal lot on Bessie Coleman Dr. just north of Schlitz Road. Much better location than the old lot and will probably be used more because of it. Plan watching isn't as good due to a large mound dirt between the lot and 27L  

I wonder why they don't use those two large unused lots just northeast of Lots B & C as cell phone lots. They are directly off the return to the arrivals. If they really want to reduce congestion in the arrival area, designate a cell phone lot that people will actually use since they pass it everytime they circle around. I guarantee you that the overly aggressive dumb ass rent-a-cops wouldn't need to be such a-holes either. A win-win for everyone involved!

http://www.flychicago.com/OHare/EN/G...From/DropOff/Drop-Off-Pick-Up.aspx

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