Mahan Is Receiving 7 A340-600

yenne09 · Sat May 09, 2015 11:20 am

Mahan Air is set to have seven A340-600.

http://www.ch-aviation.com/portal/ne...livery-of-total-of-seven-a340-600s

Ideekay · Sat May 09, 2015 11:28 am

Are those coming from TG?

yenne09 · Sat May 09, 2015 11:38 am

I did a research but I found no more information.

Thomas_Jaeger · Sat May 09, 2015 11:49 am

Ex-Virgin Atlantic/Hi Fly Malta

by738 · Sat May 09, 2015 12:05 pm

So a relatively poor airline takes on much larger aircraft that are relatively fuel inefficient for their size.... they must have got a great deal.

sxf24 · Sat May 09, 2015 12:22 pm

The aircraft are coming from Airbus and are leased for basically nothing.

columba · Sat May 09, 2015 12:58 pm

Well the A346 was originally intended as a 747-200 replacement

Spacepope · Sat May 09, 2015 2:51 pm

There was speculation a while back the 6 that went to Al-Naser were intended to head to Iran.

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 5):
The aircraft are coming from Airbus and are leased for basically nothing

Well, you don't sell many spares with the aircraft sitting in storage.

a300 · Sat May 09, 2015 4:35 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):
So a relatively poor airline takes on much larger aircraft that are relatively fuel inefficient for their size.... they must have got a great deal.

I am not sure what "relatively poor" means. Mahan is Iran's largest airline company and is privately held. They must be getting the A340-600s fairly cheap and fuel price is not a major issue for them. They can essentially "tanker" cheap Iranian fuel to their destinations and not to have to buy much fuel there. This also gets around US-imposed refueling restrictions at many European airports.

Over the years, I have flown on several Tu-154M and A300-600 of Mahan and the service is generally excellent.

roseflyer · Sat May 09, 2015 4:51 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):

So a relatively poor airline takes on much larger aircraft that are relatively fuel inefficient for their size.... they must have got a great deal.

I believe for their international routes, they tanker much of their fuel. Gas prices in Iran are about a third of what they are on the foreign markets since Iran is a major oil producer. The A346 has a high enough takeoff weight so that it can fly round trip to any Mahan air destination without refueling outside of Iran depending on landing weight payload.

solnabo · Sat May 09, 2015 5:32 pm

Woow great news!

Hope to see them in service soon, the A300s and the Boeing´s are oold by now.

Cheers

crazyguineapig · Sat May 09, 2015 6:44 pm

Great news! Someone here on a.net posted recently that Mahan Air's CEO got arrested in Dubai a few weeks ago...if there any confirmation of this rumor? And if so what was the outcome?

Even if the A346 is obsolete compared to the newest a/c, it's still a huge step from the A343s that they currently fly around.

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 9):

Quoting a300 (Reply 8):

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dennys · Sat May 09, 2015 9:14 pm

I heard about an A343 also ( ex G-VAIR ) ....

BiggerJetsPlz · Sat May 09, 2015 9:18 pm

This is cool news. Hopefully they turn up at some good photo friendly airports soon. Does anyone know what state the three ex United 747-400s Mahan has are in? I know they're grounded due to sanctions, but are they kept airworthy or are they done?

Ab345 · Sat May 09, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 11):
Even if the A346 is obsolete compared to the newest a/c, it's still a huge step from the A343s that they currently fly around.

You can hardly call an A346 obsolete. The were not the right answer to the 77W I ll agree to that and the market spoke a long time ago, but technology-wise they aren't that far behing. Most of them are about 12 years old and of course way more advanced than most of the planes that are flying in Iran right now.

Also I don't think they re intented to replace any 343s because they are different sized frames. They ll probably replace the 743s and 744s that W5 is still using.

Planesmart · Sat May 09, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):
So a relatively poor airline

That what the industry thought of EK a few decades ago.

Airbus will be using the aircraft, subject to a previous buyback, to foster good relations with the airline in the hope of selling new (or newer) aircraft in the future. Boeing had the same opportunity.

anrec80 · Sun May 10, 2015 1:28 am

Quoting crazyguineapig (Reply 11):
Even if the A346 is obsolete compared to the newest a/c, it's still a huge step from the A343s that they currently fly around.

Why are they obsolete? Sure they aren't fuel-efficient, but they are still used even by world's leading airlines such as LH or IB. Certainly it's a much better option for Mahan Air than Shah's era 742s. Hopefully Mahan's maintenance services are advanced enough to keep them all airworthy and not have a situation when 3 are flying and 3 are parts donors.

Ab345 · Sun May 10, 2015 2:20 am

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 16):
LH or IB

Besides IB that uses the 346 for hot and high performance in South and Central America and LH that has always been on oddball with fleet choises, QR is an example of a leading airline that still uses the 346 and will actually change the configuration to balance the frame's Achilees heel , the fuel burn with higher density.

Qatar A340-600 New Configuration (by behramjee May 7 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Other current operators are EY and VS both of which though are in the process of replacing them and of course SA that needs the performance of the frame similar to Iberia

LAX772LR · Sun May 10, 2015 2:25 am

Nice! Been predicting for a while that the A346 would somehow, some way find its way into Iranian air fleets. Perfect aircraft for them-- does it was it designed to do, replace the 747 classics with superior economics.

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 17):
LH that has always been on oddball with fleet choises

seat64k · Sun May 10, 2015 2:28 am

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 14):
The were not the right answer to the 77W I ll agree

Especially since they pre-date the 77W by two years.

Ab345 · Sun May 10, 2015 2:34 am

Quoting seat64k (Reply 19):
Especially since they pre-date the 77W by two years.

The 346 flew first of course by 2 years yes. My post was more about what was the closest model from Airbus to the frame that eventually ruled the market.

chrisrad · Sun May 10, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):
So a relatively poor airline takes on much larger aircraft that are relatively fuel inefficient for their size.... they must have got a great deal.

So the cost of a new 77W versus the cost of a second hand A346 I think outweighs the 10% fuel burn difference. Yes it's 10% not 50%. It's a common myth on these boards that the A346 is so inefficient.

TheRedBaron · Sun May 10, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting sxf24 (Reply 5):
The aircraft are coming from Airbus and are leased for basically nothing.

So its a good choice, A cheap plane to have, with very cheap fuel and also a large cargo and space for cabin config. In my book its a No brainer, I wonder if they got a killer deal on the engine service.

As it is the 346 has been surpassed by twins, but its not a bad airplane, now that fuel is cheap the 346 has good economics, what has killed it is the price of spares and the engine service (there are some threads here on that matter), but if they worked out those shortcomings, the deal is very good.

Nice to see a new operator for the type.

TRB

upcfordcruiser · Sun May 10, 2015 3:07 am

It's not so much they're getting the A346, but 7 of them? Just looking at their long haul route map, I don't see it - unless they plan more frequencies, convert seasonal to to regular, etc.

a300 · Sun May 10, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting upcfordcruiser (Reply 23):
It's not so much they're getting the A346, but 7 of them?

Being somewhat familiar with the company, my "educated" guesses are as follows

2 A340-600 will replace the 2 747-300 (of mid-1980's vintage)

3 A340-600 will replace the 3 747-400 (grounded for a few years with resultant loss of capacity)

2 A340-600 will replace some of the longer A310-300 routes. I suspect several more routes are coming on-line.

3 (soon to be 4) A340-300 have replaced some of the heavier routes previously flown by A300-600 and A310-300

The A300-600 and A310-300 are replacing the retiring A300 B2 and B4 models on dense domestic routes (THR, MHD, SYZ, TBZ, IFN) and regional pilgrimage flights (Iraq and Saudi Arabia)

BAe146/ARJ100 will continue to the fly the thin domestic routes (AZD, GBT)

One has to remember that we are talking about Iran. The combination of American sanctions, cheap Iranian fuel and unbelievably high volume of pilgrimage tours have led to a rather warped reality. The demand is heavy. I do not recall a single domestic flight over the last 22 years that was not packed to the gills!

cedarjet · Sun May 10, 2015 3:53 am

No question they need the capacity. As A300 said, mega religious tourism on top of regular travel for a reasonably developed country with a population of eighty million people = big airline scene. We'll see these birds in PVG, BKK, IST, DXB, DUS, pilgrim flights, and maybe a few new destinations too. BOM, SIN, and... LAX?

lollomz · Sun May 10, 2015 7:00 am

A safer plane is always a good new! Well done Mahan Air!!!

parapente · Sun May 10, 2015 7:12 am

Interesting thread.I cannot see a single down side for anybody.Airbus,Rolls Royce Iran or indeed the passengers that will enjoy these aircraft.Clever deal all round I would say

hilram · Sun May 10, 2015 8:44 am

Looking at Mahan Air's fleet, this is welcome news for the people of Iran. It is amazing that they have such a large widebody fleet with a lot of the planes nearing or passing 30 years of age!

Quoting by738 (Reply 4):
.. takes on much larger aircraft that are relatively fuel inefficient for their size

Compared to the latest and greatest, yes - such as the A359/B789. But compared to the aircraft they will be replacing, these A346's are far more fuel efficient! I think Mahan Air is one of the few airlines in the world who could actually buy A345's and STILL save money on fuel!

777way · Sun May 10, 2015 3:39 pm

There is also report of IR getting two ex-Helenic Imperial 742.

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 16):
Mahan Air than Shah's era 742s

Mahan didnt exist back then and have never had 742 in fleet.

Will the A346 have the Virgin herrigbone J class, one of Mahans or Asemans A343 has that.

a300 · Sun May 10, 2015 4:09 pm

Quoting 777way (Reply 29):
There is also report of IR getting two ex-Helenic Imperial 742.

I suspect these are are for parts. Mahan had also bought and parted out several classic 747 frames. This seems to be a common practice, even when the companies are not under sanctions. The main example is that of Delta and the large number of MD-80 and MD-90 aircraft bought specifically for parts.

Quoting anrec80 (Reply 16):
Shah's era

The word "shah" in Persian, simply means king. I am always puzzled as to why English-speakers insist on using the Persian word. "Shah's era" is properly "royal era" or "imperial era". During the Pahalvi-era, the air force was known in English as the "Imperial Iranian Air Force, IIAF", not "Shah's Iranian Air Force". The transliteration would have been "Neerooy-e Hava-ee Shahanshah-ee Iran".

JoeCanuck · Sun May 10, 2015 5:57 pm

Rumors have been going around for a while that some Iranian airline might pick up some A346's. What a great way to drastically modernize a fleet in one swell foop.

The A346 is a very modern aircraft, only one generation behind the 787/A350. It is of the same vintage of the 77W, and not a lot of those are being parked for being obsolete.

It may not be the most efficient aircraft, especially on shorter runs, but it is very versatile. It gives them options to load these things to the gills and fly just about anywhere they want to. What little they might give up in absolute efficiency, will more than be made up for by the huge increase in efficiency compared to their present fleet, (fuel burn and maintenance), and by what are surely very good lease rates.

In my opinion, a very astute move by Mahan.

Quoting hilram (Reply 28):
Compared to the latest and greatest, yes - such as the A359/B789. But compared to the aircraft they will be replacing, these A346's are far more fuel efficient! I think Mahan Air is one of the few airlines in the world who could actually buy A345's and STILL save money on fuel!

Quoting a300 (Reply 24):
One has to remember that we are talking about Iran. The combination of American sanctions, cheap Iranian fuel and unbelievably high volume of pilgrimage tours have led to a rather warped reality. The demand is heavy. I do not recall a single domestic flight over the last 22 years that was not packed to the gills!

I've been on a dozen or so Iranian flights and every flight I was on was standing room only...metaphorically speaking. Their situation is entirely unique in the airline world. Iranian airlines have very creatively kept very mixed and aged fleets flying...and safely.

On paper, one might think that the lack of parts and support would make for a very dangerous airspace, but Iran cares as much about its flying public as any other country. They are masters of reverse engineering and clever work arounds.

When they do get their A346's, the maintenance crews won't know what to do with all of their extra time.

solarflyer22 · Mon May 11, 2015 1:32 am

Mahan is actually my preferred Iranian airline and I tell relatives to use it. Sure, the owner is shady but he manages get the spare parts and the service on board is not bad.

When things like APU's are in short supply in Iran, shady is what you want because the guy that bribes someone in Turkey is the guy that gets the APU.

I am sure the EU/Airbus are allowing this deal to pave the way for a large Airbus order from Iran which I believe they will in fact get. Mahan already has a 2 A340s and a number of A320s and A300s.

The USA on the other hand sanctioned some of Mahan's airplanes by serial number just for flying into Syria. This wasn't even related to the enrichment program. In light of that recent event, I can't fathom them ordering Boeing or leasing anything remotely connected to the USA.

JoeCanuck · Mon May 11, 2015 2:46 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 32):

It all depends. The US has taken point on the nukes deal, and I imagine that they might also be trying to slip some big sales in as well. France, on the other hand, just completed a huge deal for Rafales in the middle east, worth 7 billion dollars, and they have been sucking up to Saudi and friends. They are asking the most from any deal with Iran.

Some big US sales might also smooth things a bit with congress.

The A346's are a great deal because they allow for quick replacement of older iron and will allow them to expand internationally. Airbus doesn't get a lot out of the deal since they are used and not the most desirable of aircraft. I think Iran made them an offer Airbus couldn't refuse.

I see Iran picking up a bunch more A340's as airlines upgrade to newer aircraft. The A340's of any ilk, will probably be the first to go, so the best deal for Iran, and while they aren't the cheapest to run, they will be a darn site easier on the pocketbook than what they are flying now. Besides, A340's are pretty darned good aircraft.

I think that's a pretty shrewd way to significantly modernize their fleets.

parapente · Mon May 11, 2015 5:07 am

I must say I have little knowledge of their airlines.How many aircraft do they need? Clearly there will be more 346's coming onto the market in the future.How many could they use?

r2rho · Mon May 11, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 33):
Airbus doesn't get a lot out of the deal since they are used and not the most desirable of aircraft. I think Iran made them an offer Airbus couldn't refuse.

Whatever it is, Airbus gets more out of it than by having these frames sit around in LDE or similar. A very smart deal for Mahan who is probably paying peanuts, and win-win for all.

Aviaponcho · Mon May 11, 2015 1:02 pm

You can find the press release here

http://www.mahan.aero/en/mahan-air/press-room/44

Nice explosive growth

It is humorous, isnt'it ?

AAMDanny · Mon May 11, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 36):
You can find the press release here

http://www.mahan.aero/en/mahan-air/press-room/44

Nice explosive growth
It is humorous, isnt'it ?

LOL, I wonder where the A321 will be coming from?

It should be a good cabin enhancement compared to the early generation Airbus aircraft they currently fly. I've worked on the VS A346's for years and although the IFE is getting a bit out of date they are still very comfortable aircraft.

All the ex-VS birds have AVOD installed, although it is an older generation AVOD system that is not touch screen (I believe it is the Matsushita 3000 system) I wonder if Mahan are purchasing these birds with the current cabin that VS had? Or if they are going to install new seating throughout. I know the ex-Hi-fly A346's kept Virgin's interior.

hilram · Mon May 11, 2015 1:32 pm

I have a question about these planes that are ex-VS: When Airbus lease them out to a new customer, are they stripped of anyting that reminds of the previous owner? Do Airbus change the seat covers, install new carpets etc?

777way · Mon May 11, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 38):

No, one of the A343s in Iran has VS interior inlcuding herringbone J layout.

jetwet1 · Mon May 11, 2015 2:06 pm

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 37):
(I believe it is the Matsushita 3000 system

The basic one "Vera on Demand/ the old V Port" is, this is what is fitted to the 346's, the new IFE is the eX2 system which is touch screen.

hilram · Mon May 11, 2015 10:56 pm

Thanks for the info. But I don't think the Iranian travellers are that picky when it comes to IFE. I guess yesteryears IFE is better is a substantial upgrade from none...

Prost · Mon May 11, 2015 11:24 pm

So this begs the question: Do the A340-500s have a future in Iran?

JoeCanuck · Mon May 11, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 42):

I think any A340 has a chance at a future in Iran. The A340 just isn't as desirable as it one was, and many airlines are getting rid of them for twins.

There are probably lots of good A340's kicking around that could be had on good terms and it would be a fast way to modernize a fleet, without having to deal with backlogs.

I'm guessing the 744 is also a viable option, and this could be a good chance to sell a few more 748's.

Their narrow body fleet is probably more in need of upgrading, and I'm not sure where they will get those. Are LCC's like Ryanair and Easyjet turning over their planes on a regular basis, or are they just adding to their network?

solarflyer22 · Tue May 12, 2015 1:10 am

Big article that came out today from Financial Times. This in fact was NOT US approved contrary to my beliefs. It was run through a front company in Iraq where the planes were parked apparently then moved to Iran. They did not announce the deal till all planes were in Iran. There is 1 A321 as well. $300 million is the price tag.

Iran’s Mahan airline defies sanctions in shadowy aircraft deal - FT.com

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/b84920ce-f...eb-00144feab7de.html#axzz3Zse3J7JS (requires sign in or survey)

Again, US sanctioned Mahan for flying into Syria in 2012 NOT enrichment program. These were unilateral, not UN approved sanctions. There was no evidence presented other than satellite photos of the planes in Damascus. There is 0 precedent for sanctioning an airline for flying into a allied nation during a war. I see very few Boeing orders and I dont blame them.

JoeCanuck · Tue May 12, 2015 1:30 am

Quoting solarflyer22 (Reply 44):
I see very few Boeing orders and I dont blame them.

They have such a good chance to mend fences and sell a few billion worth of aircraft, but the US will probably shoot itself in the foot. They do have an ace in the hole though; Hollande has gotten much too cozy with the Saudis for Iran's taste, and he is making the toughest demands of all of the P5+1.

I can definitely see them buying a bunch of Superjets. In my ultimate speculation, I reckon a good idea might be to invest in Antonov. Some cash could get production up again, and they may even be able to assemble knock down kits in Iran.

LAX772LR · Tue May 12, 2015 8:30 am

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 43):
and this could be a good chance to sell a few more 748's.

Barring Congressional action, that can't happen.

Unless we see an enormous sea change in congressional composition via the 2016 elections, then that's probably not going to happen any time soon.

Sad for the 748i, as it'd probably need that kind of miracle to get any further sales-- no one else appears to want it.

777way · Tue May 12, 2015 9:14 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 46):
no one else appears to want it.

Has Iran indicated they are interested in that? even if allowd to buy they would never, plenty old 744s around and more economical twin jets to do the same job.

JoeCanuck · Tue May 12, 2015 9:18 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 46):
Barring Congressional action, that can't happen.

Yah...and that's what I mean about shooting itself in the foot. I suspect Boeing and company will be more than happy to make up the commercial shortfall with a few more billions in weapons sold to Saudi.

Who knows what side deals are taking place? Hundreds of industrial suitors have been wooing Iran. Congress would be a tough nut to crack, but Airbus might be talking to Iran privately while Hollande has photo ops with the Saudis in public.

The US is the only one of the group that needs permission of its congress/parliament, to negotiate....much easier to make deals that way.

KarelXWB · Tue May 12, 2015 9:20 am

Quoting ideekay (Reply 1):
Are those coming from TG?

No, ex-Virgin.

Quote:

Airbus A340 -642 371 YI-ASL Al-Naser Airlines ferried 08may15 BGW-THR, all white, for Mahan Air (+ 376 YI-ASM, + 383 YI-ASN) ex G-VGOA

Airbus A340 -642 391 YI- ? Al-Naser Airlines ferried 08may15 BSR-THR, all white, for Mahan Air (+ 416 YI- ? BSR-THR ex 9H-TEQ) ex 9H-TEP

Airbus A340 -642 449 YI- ? Al-Naser Airlines ferried 08may15 BSR-IKA, all white, for Mahan Air (+ 615 YI- ? ex G-VSSH) ex 9H-TEQ

Source
http://www.skyliner-aviation.de/

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