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womenbeshopping
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SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 09, 2015 4:25 pm

Apparently a tug crash after midnight last night. The ramp is such a dangerous place, nothing but steel and concrete. Very sad. I remember when this happened to a co-worker at PHL about 7 years ago. My condolences go out to his family. Stay safe out there fellow rampers.




http://abc7chicago.com/news/luggage-...in-crash-at-midway-airport/709353/
 
rugger
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 09, 2015 5:21 pm

I wonder how many hours that ramper had been on the job when the accident happened? Doesn't Southwest have a ramper shortage at MDW? I remember reading something about their rampers being overworked at MDW.
 
nikeherc
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 09, 2015 7:14 pm

Workplace deaths are so hard on everyone, even if the victim was not known personally. I worked for a large southeastern telecom utility. We lost four people to mishaps on the job in a very short period of time. The entire company took a stand down to emphasize safety. To quote the official motto of that company - "No job is so important and no service is so urgent that we cannot take time to perform our work safely." Amen

[Edited 2015-05-09 12:15:23]
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OzarkD9S
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 09, 2015 10:04 pm

Sad news, my condolences to family, friends and co-workers.
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georgiabill
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 09, 2015 11:22 pm

Condolences to his family,friends and co-workers. RIP to the worker.
 
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Aesma
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 12:28 am

Thoughts to his family.

Quoting nikeherc (Reply 2):
Workplace deaths are so hard on everyone, even if the victim was not known personally. I worked for a large southeastern telecom utility. We lost four people to mishaps on the job in a very short period of time. The entire company took a stand down to emphasize safety. To quote the official motto of that company - "No job is so important and no service is so urgent that we cannot take time to perform our work safely." Amen

I'm new in a construction company and there is a great emphasis put on safety, every time the CEO or directors communicate to employees about the results and objectives of the company, safety is always mentioned. I thought it odd at first but now with a bit more experience and learning about accidents that have happened, I get it.
New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
 
Independence76
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 1:29 am

This is unfortunate to hear. I flew out of MDW last night about an hour before this happened.

RIP to the worker and I give condolences to all those who knew him.
 
apfpilot
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 2:05 am

I had this happen once when I was running the ramp at APF. A new Line Tech drove into the wing of a fueled F900 with chocks and parking brake set. He was backing and panicked and pressed the accelerator and was crushed between the Tug and the wing. Passed away on the medflight to the trauma center.
Opinions are my own and do not reflect an endorsement or position of my employer.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 2:49 am

OSHA requires seat belts on all moving equipment. The article says he was ejected from the tractor. That sounds like he wasn't wearing one. Our management is really watching us to see if we wear our seat belts these days.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 8):
OSHA requires seat belts on all moving equipment. The article says he was ejected from the tractor. That sounds like he wasn't wearing one. Our management is really watching us to see if we wear our seat belts these days.

I could count on one hand the number of times I've seen anyone on the ramp wear a seatbelt in a tug or belt loader. Multiple airlines. It's basically impossible to police.
 
SXDFC
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 3:30 am

This is a very sad story, which sounds like it could have been very avoidable. May he RIP.
 
ericm2031
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 8):
OSHA requires seat belts on all moving equipment. The article says he was ejected from the tractor. That sounds like he wasn't wearing one. Our management is really watching us to see if we wear our seat belts these days.

I think there is also a lot of older equipment out there that may not have had seatbelts installed on them originally and I don't think it is a requirement to have it retrofitted.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 4:51 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 8):

There are several exceptions to this. One being within the footprint of the a/c. So if you are pulling a belt loader from the front to the back..not required. Bringing jetway bags around the jetway to the service side..not required. Again, we don't know the exact circumstances of the a/c.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 9):

I wouldn't say that. It comes down to what management allows. We do regular (almost daily) seatbelt audits. If you're fought without one it's a write up. And the type that stays on your file and the level where you can only get two more (write-ups that carry as much weight as no seatbelt based on infraction) or you're gone. Kind of like a no call no show. Most places you only get 3. If that airport/hub management were doing their job it wouldn't be as bad as you describe. Now, they guys here know. For us it's reverse. When we first started our safety campaign last year, compliance was in the 60% Range. Now, a bad day for us is an audit with a 95% compliance rate. We don't like to see more than 1 or 2 out of all drivers observed over a period of an hour.

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 11):

It is a requirement for the airline/GSE department to retrofit them with seatbelts. If there is no seatbelt or it's broken, policy states to take it out of service. Grace period on that is long gone.
What gets measured gets done.
 
737tdi
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 5:04 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 1):
I wonder how many hours that ramper had been on the job when the accident happened? Doesn't Southwest have a ramper shortage at MDW? I remember reading something about their rampers being overworked at MDW.

I really can't believe you said this! Not cool at all. Immediately blame WN!



I do not know the specifics of the accident but I know when I jump on a piece of equipment I would not put on a seatbelt. That was and is my choice as it was his. R.I.P. sir.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 5:33 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):
I wouldn't say that. It comes down to what management allows. We do regular (almost daily) seatbelt audits. If you're fought without one it's a write up.

Unless you have an auditor riding along with someone, you can't police it, whether or not "management allows it." It's not difficult to put your seatbelt on in view of others, then when you are out of sight remove it. Especially at night when visibility is low. And to be completely fair, in an open tug or belt loader, a seatbelt can cause more injury than not. If you flip over a bag tug, you'd better hope you're thrown clear. Otherwise you're a pancake under a 3-ton piece of steel.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 6:30 am

It is company policy to wear a seatbelt at all times while operating vehicles on the ramp. There has been a very aggressive campaign to enforce this policy including the monitoring of surveillance video to ensure compliance.

That said, we do not know the details regarding this tragic accident so it is inappropriate to jump to conclusions. It's a very sad day for the WN family and my condolences to the victim's family.

Be safe out there!
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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malaysia
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 15):
seatbelt

Aside from seatbelt, I have yet to see WN belt loaders with the hand rails up in California when a person is on top of the belt entering and exiting? It is a CAL-OSHA requirement, the height of a standard fully lowered belt loader is above the minimum for fall protection with 737s in California.
There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
 
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usair330
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 2:30 pm

Firstly my condolences to the family.



Quoting HPRamper (Reply 14):
Unless you have an auditor riding along with someone, you can't police it, whether or not "management allows it." It's not difficult to put your seatbelt on in view of others, then when you are out of sight remove it.

Very true but likely not the case. When I use to bag run for WN you set up your carts, load your bags than shoot down to the tunnel (PHL). You could have another flight on the ground with bags to run the minute you finish loading your bags. There's just so much multitasking involved and than on top of that you have to get those bags to the passengers within at least 30 minutes after the flights lands. You can easily be in such a rush that putting on your seatbelt is the last thing your worried about before a sup. or customer service rep. calls on the radio for there bags.

I myself have been hurt working for WN. Fell off a belt loader when someone left a chalk on the side, landed right on my head. Could've been paralyzed or worse dead. Somehow the bleeding stopped inside my brain and I was very lucky to survive.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sun May 10, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 14):

Which is why we watch out of view...

Just sounds like bad culture where you are at. We didn't have this problem in ATL and I don't see it where I'm at now either. Bottom line, these guys rather keep their job than loose it over not wearing a belt. They know we are watching (like I said this took over a year) and in general they don't chance it anymore.

[Edited 2015-05-10 10:45:34]
What gets measured gets done.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 18):
Just sounds like bad culture where you are at. We didn't have this problem in ATL and I don't see it where I'm at now either. Bottom line, these guys rather keep their job than loose it over not wearing a belt. They know we are watching (like I said this took over a year) and in general they don't chance it anymore.

It's not like that where I'm at. There's simply zero policy on seatbelts. They aren't used. I'm just stating a possible scenario in an environment where they are "required."
 
rugger
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 5:39 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 13):
I really can't believe you said this! Not cool at all. Immediately blame WN!


It wasn't said in jest.... it has been mentioned on these pages before that Southwest MDW rampers have been overworked and I was wondering if employee fatigue may have had anything to do with it. And that is a safety issue, like it or not, buddy. To think that I am blaming Southwest with this comment is taking it far beyond what I meant. You are drawing your own conclusions at this time.
 
rugger
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 5:43 am

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 13):
I do not know the specifics of the accident but I know when I jump on a piece of equipment I would not put on a seatbelt. That was and is my choice as it was his. R.I.P. sir.


I find this just amazing. Then what are the seatbelts there for?

[Edited 2015-05-10 23:02:04]
 
PWMRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 8:42 am

I'm trying to recall in my 4 years as a ramper if I ever saw anyone use a seatbelt.

Heck, our equipment didn't even HAVE seatbelts.


Sad story. Dangerous job, and one that you don't get many mistakes in.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 2:50 pm

Quoting Rugger (Reply 21):
I find this just amazing. Then what are the seatbelts there for?

It's really dependent on the type of work you're doing. The specifics of my job dictate extremely frequent getting into and out of tugs, so much so that seatbelts would noticeably slow down the operation. Most of our vehicles do not have them even installed. If they do, it's sort of like seeing an airplane that still has ashtrays. The notion is amusing but not to be taken seriously.
 
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b727fa
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 3:16 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 23):
It's really dependent on the type of work you're doing. The specifics of my job dictate extremely frequent getting into and out of tugs, so much so that seatbelts would noticeably slow down the operation. Most of our vehicles do not have them even installed. If they do, it's sort of like seeing an airplane that still has ashtrays. The notion is amusing but not to be taken seriously.

I'm stunned. The 2.1 seconds it takes to wrap a webbed strap across your lap and "click it" would "noticeably slow down the operation?" You know what slows it down even more? Accidents.

If "most of [the] vehicles do not have them installed" then a call to OSHA is in order.

I'm not sure if you have an understanding of why there are ashtray on planes. It's not a throw-back to when people could smoke. It's to ensure a proper place to extinguish a cigarette is available. Ever notice how they're always at the lav? Where do people smoke if they're going to? The lav.

I certainly don't consider seatbelts or inflight fires "amusing."
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
T5towbar
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 3:40 pm

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 8):
OSHA requires seat belts on all moving equipment. The article says he was ejected from the tractor. That sounds like he wasn't wearing one. Our management is really watching us to see if we wear our seat belts these days.

Yes. that has been the norm now and Supervisors and Airport Police are enforcing this at some airports. Tickets and write-ups will be given if you are caught with out buckling up.

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 12):
There are several exceptions to this. One being within the footprint of the a/c. So if you are pulling a belt loader from the front to the back..not required. Bringing jetway bags around the jetway to the service side..not required. Again, we don't know the exact circumstances of the a/c.

Correct. Around the aircraft it is not needed. Once you leave the plane and move to another location, you will have to buckle up. You don't have to wear them in the BMU as well. Again, once you leave the area, you must wear them.
You also don't have to wear them while pushing back an aircraft either.

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 14):
Unless you have an auditor riding along with someone, you can't police it, whether or not "management allows it." It's not difficult to put your seatbelt on in view of others, then when you are out of sight remove it. Especially at night when visibility is low. And to be completely fair, in an open tug or belt loader, a seatbelt can cause more injury than not. If you flip over a bag tug, you'd better hope you're thrown clear. Otherwise you're a pancake under a 3-ton piece of steel.

I sorta agree with this one. sUA used to have those good Toyota tugs which were low profile and you didn't have to worry about tipping over like the TUG brand tugs which are higher profile and you have to worry about every bump on the ramp (which you really feel and rides like a buckboard) or the service road, etc. (They took those good tugs from my hub and shipped them elsewhere in the system) With the TUG brand tugs, you have to be really careful, and you have that fear if you are belted up and the tug rolls over, you will be crushed. If you are not belted, you can try to jump off before it rolls over.

Quoting malaysia (Reply 16):
Aside from seatbelt, I have yet to see WN belt loaders with the hand rails up in California when a person is on top of the belt entering and exiting? It is a CAL-OSHA requirement, the height of a standard fully lowered belt loader is above the minimum for fall protection with 737s in California.

That's another rule we are getting used to: Rails Up on the 737 series. Don't know about WN, but we have to have them up just like any other aircraft except regional aircraft.


My condolences to the fellow ramper's family and co-workers. Just shows that this is a very dangerous job, and things out here can hurt or possibly kill you.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
spchamp1
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 3:50 pm

Seatbelts are only required on vehicles that have roll over protection. Any open air bag tugs are not considered to have roll over protection and therefore are not required to have seat belts. I havent read the article so I dont know what piece of equipment this occurred on.

As a ramper, requiring the use of seat belts would slow down a bag runners job, but not significantly enough at my airport where it would become an issue. I can see how being at a larger airport with more flights where this could potentially come into play and we all know alot of airlines will never get staffing to the level that wont require us to rush.

Personally, I am not in favor of utilizing seat belts on GSE.
 
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antoniemey
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 6:39 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
With the TUG brand tugs,

I'm assuming you're referring to the ones with a wheel set-up similarr to a John Deere tractor and bench seats? The TUG equipment I use is all low profile and I've never felt ike I was in danger of tipping.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
HPRamper
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting B727FA (Reply 24):
I'm stunned. The 2.1 seconds it takes to wrap a webbed strap across your lap and "click it" would "noticeably slow down the operation?" You know what slows it down even more? Accidents.

For one, I've never seen a tug accident in oh, something close to 15 years on multiple ramps. People have gotten hurt more literally walking across the ramp than they have in tug accidents. You have zero idea of what the job at my workplace entails so I don't expect you to understand how much a seatbelt would be a net negative. It's not like driving a car.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
With the TUG brand tugs, you have to be really careful, and you have that fear if you are belted up and the tug rolls over, you will be crushed. If you are not belted, you can try to jump off before it rolls over.

This is another very important point. The majority of tugs I use are open top. No roll protection. I'd be damned if I was told to belt up in an open tug. Hell with that. They weigh 6000 lbs.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
That's another rule we are getting used to: Rails Up on the 737 series. Don't know about WN, but we have to have them up just like any other aircraft except regional aircraft.

I've seen some awkward situations regarding the rails up rule. For instance, a rail up at the aft door of an ATR but not the forward door, since it falls just under the threshold.

Quoting spchamp1 (Reply 26):
Seatbelts are only required on vehicles that have roll over protection. Any open air bag tugs are not considered to have roll over protection and therefore are not required to have seat belts. I havent read the article so I dont know what piece of equipment this occurred on.

There we go.
 
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exFWAOONW
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 9:06 pm

First, sad to hear. 2nd, I've said many times to my kids, "nothing good happens after midnight."

I want to know, why are people driving on an airport ramp in a manner that requires a seatbelt?  If you are operating in a safe, responsible manner, as you should around multi-million-dollar equipment, a seatbelt should be superfilous.

Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 22):
Heck, our equipment didn't even HAVE seatbelts.

Same here.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 25):
With the TUG brand tugs, you have to be really careful, and you have that fear if you are belted up and the tug rolls over, you will be crushed. If you are not belted, you can try to jump off before it rolls over.
Quoting spchamp1 (Reply 26):
Seatbelts are only required on vehicles that have roll over protection. Any open air bag tugs are not considered to have roll over protection and therefore are not required to have seat belts

Wow, logical, how did that get passed in this zero-tolerance crazed environment?
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 23):

Quoting Rugger (Reply 21):
I find this just amazing. Then what are the seatbelts there for?

It's really dependent on the type of work you're doing. The specifics of my job dictate extremely frequent getting into and out of tugs, so much so that seatbelts would noticeably slow down the operation. Most of our vehicles do not have them even installed. If they do, it's sort of like seeing an airplane that still has ashtrays. The notion is amusing but not to be taken seriously.

Oh come on. I'm a transfer/connections driver. My job is basically pick up bags, then drive 20 yards and drop bags off...get back on and drive another 20 yards to drop off another bag and repeat process up to 11 times in one run. I buckle my seatbelt every single time because if I don't, I will get written up. It's that simple. Do I like it? Did I think it would slow me down when they first enacted the policy a couple years ago? Sure, we all resisted. But it's policy and we are expected to follow it or face disciplinary action. And we have those really low riding electric tugs!

WN takes safety very seriously. 100% compliance is expected at all times. A supervisor or a manager can walk up to a plane that is just sitting there about to take a delay because there isn't a full crew to work it, but the only thing they are going to care about is that the safety cone in front of the engine is off spot by 6 inches or that you were seen last week not wearing a seatbelt.

[Edited 2015-05-11 15:15:27]
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 10:20 pm

Whomever mentioned it's only required if your tug has rollover protection that simply isn't true. Please cite in the DOT directive where that is stated. 98% of Delta's tugs in ATL are the Cadillac type (no roof/cab). The requirement is there even for belt loaders. No rollover.
What gets measured gets done.
 
rugger
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Mon May 11, 2015 10:57 pm

At least one thing has been demonstrated in this thread. Policies and enforcem

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 30):
It's really dependent on the type of work you're doing. The specifics of my job dictate extremely frequent getting into and out of tugs, so much so that seatbelts would noticeably slow down the operation. Most of our vehicles do not have them even installed. If they do, it's sort of like seeing an airplane that still has ashtrays. The notion is amusing but not to be taken seriously.

I didn't say that.



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 30):
Oh come on. I'm a transfer/connections driver. My job is basically pick up bags, then drive 20 yards and drop bags off...get back on and drive another 20 yards to drop off another bag and repeat process up to 11 times in one run. I buckle my seatbelt every single time because if I don't, I will get written up. It's that simple. Do I like it? Did I think it would slow me down when they first enacted the policy a couple years ago? Sure, we all resisted. But it's policy and we are expected to follow it or face disciplinary action. And we have those really low riding electric tugs!

Even though it's not the most convenient thing to do, the company has a policy it wants it's employees to follow. And it sounds like most employees are doing just that. If the employees don't like the policy they can take it up with the union or airline management. But these policies are not put in place simply to harass the employees.
 
737tdi
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 1:40 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 32):
At least one thing has been demonstrated in this thread. Policies and enforcem

Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 30):It's really dependent on the type of work you're doing. The specifics of my job dictate extremely frequent getting into and out of tugs, so much so that seatbelts would noticeably slow down the operation. Most of our vehicles do not have them even installed. If they do, it's sort of like seeing an airplane that still has ashtrays. The notion is amusing but not to be taken seriously.
I didn't say that.



Quoting Silver1SWA (Reply 30):Oh come on. I'm a transfer/connections driver. My job is basically pick up bags, then drive 20 yards and drop bags off...get back on and drive another 20 yards to drop off another bag and repeat process up to 11 times in one run. I buckle my seatbelt every single time because if I don't, I will get written up. It's that simple. Do I like it? Did I think it would slow me down when they first enacted the policy a couple years ago? Sure, we all resisted. But it's policy and we are expected to follow it or face disciplinary action. And we have those really low riding electric tugs!

Even though it's not the most convenient thing to do, the company has a policy it wants it's employees to follow. And it sounds like most employees are doing just that. If the employees don't like the policy they can take it up with the union or airline management. But these policies are not put in place simply to harass the employees.

Rugger: Do you work in this industry? If so you must work the slowest airline in the world.

I am not a ramper, I am a mech. but I can say there are many things that we as mechs. do that are against/breaking OSHA standards. An aircraft wing is way over the limit for ignoring fall protection, how many times do you see mechs. walking on a wing? How do you change a VHF 1 antenna on a 737 when out of town? There are things that you do to put an aircraft back in service. You can not enforce blanket rules and think that you are going to get Grandmother to Buffalo. It just doesn't, won't, will never happen unless the DOT stops rating Airlines by delays. See my point? I walk down the crown of an aircraft to replace an antenna, it is easy. Could I fall, not likely, but possible. You know I have never fallen off of a sidewalk, why would I fall off of a aircraft wing/fuselage. The rules and procedures are best case scenarios.

If I am in Wichita KS and you are on the flight and the VHF is inop., do you want me to wait for fall protection to "get the job done"? Ridiculous rules for hangar applications. I was downline to OKC a few days ago for a lightning strike conditional inspection, I used the deice truck to view the upper portions of the aircraft. Should I have waited to use a proper man lift? It is a matter of my choice, it was my choice to do the things I have mentioned because I wanted this aircraft back in service. There was and never has been any pressure from the company, we take it on ourselves to determine if what we are doing is acceptable and safe. IMO it is not up to the US Government to determine my choices. I have been doing this for 3+ decades and am still writing this diatribe. It is my choice and if I fail then so be it. I will never ever go against the Boeing MM practices but I will tell OSHA to get bent. Walking on a wing with fall protection is more dangerous then walking. JMO.
 
N766UA
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting ramprat74 (Reply 8):

OSHA requires seat belts on all moving equipment. The article says he was ejected from the tractor. That sounds like he wasn't wearing one. Our management is really watching us to see if we wear our seat belts these days.

I spent 2 years on the ramp; I never saw anyone wear a seatbelt. Ever.
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 32):

I didn't say that.




I know. I was quoting HPRamper's response to your quote.
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
rugger
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 3:54 am

OK, I know sometimes the quotation system isn't the best at attributing the right username with the right quote.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 33):
I am not a ramper, I am a mech.

Being a ramper and being a mechanic are two different lines of work. You can't even remotely apply ramper rules to mechanics rules. You are mixing apples and oranges here. Each job has its own set of risks. It's up to the employee to follow the safest method of conducting themselves in differing situations. If you feel safe doing what you are doing your own way, why let an airline stop you with silly little rules?
 
737tdi
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 36):
Being a ramper and being a mechanic are two different lines of work.

You did not answer the question! Are you in this industry? Being a ramper or mech. is not all that much difference. We both work around live aircraft, we both work in an environment that is exactly the same. Granted I do not load bag bins on a daily basis, I have done it though. I have helped with the load, I have assisted many times. I don't make a habit of it since I would get grieved. Remember that Dallas mechs. did all of the fueling and push until the last contract. It is not a new thing for us. Just remember that we all on the ramp have all of the same dangers and they really are acceptable. I worked on the deck of several aircraft carriers and this is cake compared to that.
 
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ramprat74
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Tue May 12, 2015 5:50 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 34):
I spent 2 years on the ramp; I never saw anyone wear a seatbelt. Ever.

I have spent 22 years on the ramp and only started wearing a seatbelt 6 months ago when the OSHA mandate came out.
 
737tdi
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 8:37 am

HMMMM: Sitting right next to a JT8D trimming it, is so far out of the safety realm of ramper safety (research before comment). Wow, there is just nothing that is safe really. Walking, riding a bike, riding a cycle, driving a car, flying an airplane, nothing? RIGHT? Good grief, We need to have fun, We need to have experiences, We need to have adventures, but you will sue the crap out of someone who steps on your toes. Sickening.

Thank you, for ruining my world.
 
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zeke
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 9:04 am

Quoting Rugger (Reply 36):
Each job has its own set of risks. It's up to the employee to follow the safest method of conducting themselves in differing situations. If you feel safe doing what you are doing your own way, why let an airline stop you with silly little rules?

Because we dont need to have unnecessary deaths or rules, the science says seat belts save lives. Science also says, speed kills. Slowing down a little and wearing a seat belt is a zero downside, all upside.

My thoughts are to the family and workmates of this worker, hope their legacy is that people will slow down, wear seat belts, and come home in one piece after their shift.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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green12324
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 9:11 am

We have seat belts on all our vehicles covered or not at on the ramp at Trans States.

The only time I don't wear mine is if I forget out of old habit, although it certainly seems frivolous when driving 20 feet at 5 mph to approach the aircraft. I've never seen a tug accident on the ramp, but I've never seen a lot of things. I'll wear it because it's required and certainly can't hurt anything.
The views expressed in this post are my own. They have not
been reviewed or approved by my employer.
 
T5towbar
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 2:49 pm

Quoting antoniemey (Reply 27):
I'm assuming you're referring to the ones with a wheel set-up similarr to a John Deere tractor and bench seats? The TUG equipment I use is all low profile and I've never felt ike I was in danger of tipping.

Yes. Those that look like lawn tractors. Some have covers and doors on them (for TOB and E145 pushback work) TUG also has the lower profile ones, but we don't have those in my hub. Just the ones that are used for pushback in Express Ops. There is another manufacturer that makes the lower profile tugs as well. But we don't have them for everyday cart running too.

Anyway, the higher profile tugs have the issue of tip over, and you can really feel it if you run over a bump or pothole. I remember someone driving one of them and hitting a chock and falling off of it. The seat belt would have helped in that instance, but in some cases, people feel that they would rather jump off than getting crushed.
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
Silver1SWA
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 42):
but in some cases, people feel that they would rather jump off than getting crushed.

The one major issue I had with the seatbelt policy when it was first implemented was that it included pushback vehicles. If the tow bar connection somehow becomes compromised and the nose of the aircraft collides with the pushback, I want the ability to bail before getting crushed. The policy was eventually changed to exclude pushback vehicles.

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 39):
HMMMM: Sitting right next to a JT8D trimming it, is so far out of the safety realm of ramper safety (research before comment). Wow, there is just nothing that is safe really. Walking, riding a bike, riding a cycle, driving a car, flying an airplane, nothing? RIGHT? Good grief, We need to have fun, We need to have experiences, We need to have adventures, but you will sue the crap out of someone who steps on your toes. Sickening.

Thank you, for ruining my world.

It seems just about every day we have a new safety change in procedures or equipment that comes from a knee-jerk response to an accident.  
ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
 
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b727fa
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 28):
You have zero idea of what the job at my workplace entails so I don't expect you to understand how much a seatbelt would be a net negative.

Please don't assume facts not in evidence. You don't know what I do and don't know and what jobs I have or have not done.
My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Thu May 14, 2015 9:46 pm

Quoting 737tdi (Reply 33):
I am not a ramper, I am a mech. but I can say there are many things that we as mechs. do that are against/breaking OSHA standards. An aircraft wing is way over the limit for ignoring fall protection, how many times do you see mechs. walking on a wing? How do you change a VHF 1 antenna on a 737 when out of town? There are things that you do to put an aircraft back in service. You can not enforce blanket rules and think that you are going to get Grandmother to Buffalo. It just doesn't, won't, will never happen unless the DOT stops rating Airlines by delays. See my point? I walk down the crown of an aircraft to replace an antenna, it is easy. Could I fall, not likely, but possible. You know I have never fallen off of a sidewalk, why would I fall off of a aircraft wing/fuselage. The rules and procedures are best case scenarios.

If I am in Wichita KS and you are on the flight and the VHF is inop., do you want me to wait for fall protection to "get the job done"? Ridiculous rules for hangar applications. I was downline to OKC a few days ago for a lightning strike conditional inspection, I used the deice truck to view the upper portions of the aircraft. Should I have waited to use a proper man lift? It is a matter of my choice, it was my choice to do the things I have mentioned because I wanted this aircraft back in service. There was and never has been any pressure from the company, we take it on ourselves to determine if what we are doing is acceptable and safe. IMO it is not up to the US Government to determine my choices. I have been doing this for 3+ decades and am still writing this diatribe. It is my choice and if I fail then so be it. I will never ever go against the Boeing MM practices but I will tell OSHA to get bent. Walking on a wing with fall protection is more dangerous then walking. JMO.

This is scary. I certainly would not feel comfortable working with you!

Rules are in place for a reason. We stress to the ramp all the time that safety comes first and foremost. You end up taking a delay because you followe procedure? Fine! It is what it is. I tell them all the time, so long as you do what you are suppose to do you can't get in trouble. I'm not going to write you up because you found taht the hand rail on your only beltloader isn't locking in place and you had to get another one; delaying the download a few minutes.
What gets measured gets done.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Fri May 15, 2015 12:04 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 45):
Rules are in place for a reason. We stress to the ramp all the time that safety comes first and foremost.

You assume that the rules make things safer, no? In 737tdi's case, I'm not sure that using a manlift rather than a deice truck for his inspection in OKC would have made things any safer.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
FlyASAGuy2005
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Fri May 15, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 46):

So why not use that logic for every single rule related to safety. We can't cherry pick.
What gets measured gets done.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Fri May 15, 2015 1:25 pm

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 47):
So why not use that logic for every single rule related to safety. We can't cherry pick.

Cherrypicking implies arbitrary selection of what rules to follow, which I don't think is what he's saying (but I'll let him speak for himself).
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
rugger
Posts: 394
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RE: SWA Ramp Agent Killed At MDW

Sat May 16, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 46):
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 45):
Rules are in place for a reason. We stress to the ramp all the time that safety comes first and foremost.

You assume that the rules make things safer, no? In 737tdi's case, I'm not sure that using a manlift rather than a deice truck for his inspection in OKC would have made things any safer.

Always use the tool that was designed for the job. Sure a deice truck will work, but you have a greater chance of falling off of it while climbing up on it than you would a manlift, which is more stable than a deice truck and was designed for the purpose.

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