INNflight
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Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 11:25 am

I tried re-posting this in the old thread but it's over a year old and archived, so here we go.

The first jet aircraft of Pilatus - the PC24 - had its successful maiden flight this morning at 09:58 central European summer time. The flight lasted just about an hour.

Interesting to see how the flight testing will go.

Pictures:

PC24 first flight
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flyingturtle
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 11:54 am

I completely missed that.......

But wonderful news!


David
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AIRWALK
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 12:04 pm

Nice, had a look at the specs, looks pretty good.

http://www.pilatus-aircraft.com/#278
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
travelavnut
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 12:09 pm

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 2):
Nice, had a look at the specs, looks pretty good.

As I am someone that is completely not into bizz jets can you expand a bit more on this? How does the PC24 compare to others in the same market segment?
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Aesma
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 12:10 pm

Let's hope it doesn't tank the company !
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Aquila3
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 12:33 pm

Quoting INNflight (Thread starter):

        
Congrats to Pilatus !
Very nice picture, a maiden flight takeoff without any sky on the horizon! That must be Switzerland!
Wish you happy landings, PC24!
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zeke
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting INNflight (Thread starter):
Interesting to see how the flight testing will go.

I hope it goes well, looking forward to flying one at some stage.

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 3):
How does the PC24 compare to others in the same market segment?

Noting else on the market that has that big door, flat floor, and unprepared runway capability.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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larshjort
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 3):

As I am someone that is completely not into bizz jets can you expand a bit more on this? How does the PC24 compare to others in the same market segment?


It can operate from unpaved runways and grass strips it needs less than 1000m of runway and has a large cargo door as standart eqquipment like the PC-12.

/Lars
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flyingturtle
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 3):
As I am someone that is completely not into bizz jets can you expand a bit more on this? How does the PC24 compare to others in the same market segment?

It is more or less the little brother of a Citation III, says a quick glance at the technical specs. But as you surely know, it comes with a rough field landing capability, a cargo door, and requires much shorter runways.

Well, it would look better if it had the larger engines of the Bombardier Challenger 600.  


David
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travelavnut
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 1:41 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 6):
Quoting larshjort (Reply 7):
Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 8):

Thanks guys!

With regards to the cargo door, I guess Pilatus is not necessarily pitching this aircraft in the regular business jet market?
Live From Amsterdam!
 
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Semaex
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 2:00 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 7):
It can operate from unpaved runways and grass strips it needs less than 1000m of runway and has a large cargo door as standart eqquipment like the PC-12.
Quoting travelavnut (Reply 9):
With regards to the cargo door, I guess Pilatus is not necessarily pitching this aircraft in the regular business jet market?

Sounds to me like the perfect aircraft for medivac missions.
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 2:24 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):
Sounds to me like the perfect aircraft for medivac missions.

And the narcotics business.   

David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
JoKeR
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 2:58 pm

Pilatus is also offering the PC24 in a 10-seat commuter layout? For real? Lavatory, luggage space and all?

That's intriguing, are they hoping to attract niche airline sales?

I can't see this aircraft cheap to operate, so exploting it on scheduled services is simply beyond logic, right? Or am I missing something here?
 
INFINITI329
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 3:05 pm

Is the PC-24 designed to achieve single pilot certification?
 
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zeke
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 3:08 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 13):

Yes
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
mrocktor
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 7):
It can operate from unpaved runways and grass strips it needs less than 1000m of runway and has a large cargo door as standart eqquipment like the PC-12.

Screams "niche aircraft" to me, but I worked on the Phenom 300 (and love that airplane), so not I'm exactly unbiased.

Still, the number of people willing to fly a 10M$ jet into dirt fields has to be small.
 
threepoint
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting Semaex (Reply 10):

And the aerial firefighting industry, as a CJ-525 replacement.
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 4:13 pm

I think Pilatus has a real winner on their hands. It hits the others where they ain't, focusing on short fields, with the capacity to land on unimproved strips thrown in as a bonus.

Add to that the standard cargo door and the already impressive Pilatus reputation, (the PC12 is in a league of its own)...I can't see how it can lose.

Good going Pilatus.
What the...?
 
N1120A
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 4:34 pm

Hmm - I wonder if this will loosen the Cessna Caravan's grip on the small commuter market segment?
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larshjort
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 4:53 pm

Quoting mrocktor (Reply 15):

Screams "niche aircraft" to me, but I worked on the Phenom 300 (and love that airplane), so not I'm exactly unbiased.

Still, the number of people willing to fly a 10M$ jet into dirt fields has to be small.


I see some potential as a PC-12 replacement. There are quite a few PC-12s flying around because it can fly where people wants to go. The PC-24 will be able to do most of those missions faster.

To me it looks like it can do the almost the same as a Phenom 300 while carrying more pax + it have the ability to land close to anywhere and if you need something transporten in a hurry, e.g. a main Wheel assembly for a 737, you can load it with a forklift.

Then again, I've maintained PC-12s so I may also be a bit biased aswell  I have to say it is the best aicraft from a mechanics point of view I've ever had the pleasure to work on.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
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cougar15
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 5:04 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 7):
It can operate from unpaved runways and grass strips it needs less than 1000m of runway and has a large cargo door as standart eqquipment like the PC-12.

so basically, if you want, you can take your Harley along, strap it in and land whereever you want. bit like the PC12. A very versatile A/C and a huge fanbase will make this a sucess!
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JoeCanuck
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 5:27 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 19):

A few years ago, a friend was a corporate PC12 pilot. They would fly a thousand miles or more at a time. They loved the PC12, but they needed something a bit faster. I believe they settled for a Citation.

Now someone looking for an upgrade to the PC12 can keep it in the family.
What the...?
 
FighterPilot
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 5:46 pm

While I wish it all the best, I really can't see it taking much of a cut into the already existing PC-12 market here in Canada. The majority of the PC-12 operators in Canada use them in short gravel strips and while that's what the PC-24 is marketed for I don't anticipate any current PC-12 operators electing to take 9 million dollar jet into these types of strips. I feel the Canadian operators are going to have the "If it ain't broke why fix it?" mentality. The majority of Medevac operators in Canada are using a combination of turboprops, be it, King Airs, Metros, MU-2's and the PC-12. The only operators I could see picking up one or two for their fleet would maybe be Ornge and the government run Medevac operators for more time critical flights. Again I could be totally wrong, but if the major selling point over the PC-12 is increased speed why upgrade?
Just my   

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747400sp
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 5:47 pm

Glad to read about this, there are charter airlines that flies PC12s between Los Angeles and Las Vegas on the weekend, so it will be intresting, to see what can be done with a Pilatus jet.
 
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Revelation
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 5:52 pm

Quoting flyingturtle (Reply 11):
And the narcotics business.

High-end parachute jump school/club?  
Quoting mrocktor (Reply 15):
Still, the number of people willing to fly a 10M$ jet into dirt fields has to be small.

High-end glider tug, maybe to pull up another Pilatus product?  
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BobMUC
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 6:08 pm

 
DiamondFlyer
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Mon May 11, 2015 6:31 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):

Hmm - I wonder if this will loosen the Cessna Caravan's grip on the small commuter market segment?

Not a chance, the PC-12 couldn't even do that, and a PC-12 is going to be orders of magnitude cheaper to operate than the PC-24 will be. If they ever get around to it, the Tecnam P2012 might have a chance

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[Edited 2015-05-11 11:32:05]
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b747400erf
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 4:53 am

All these pictures of the first flight and no one bothers to get the plane from the angle showing off the unique cargo door.
 
javierglez
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 7:01 am

Quoting larshjort (Reply 7):
it needs less than 1000m of runway

I thought there still were plenty of 750-900 m strips around, small aircraft airfields from the 60s-70s. 1000 m looks short just because this aircraft looks large.
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 7:15 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 27):
All these pictures of the first flight and no one bothers to get the plane from the angle showing off the unique cargo door.

Or announcing the test flight so the enthusiasts could get proper shots of that unique cargo door.   


David
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Semaex
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 7:23 am

Quoting JoKeR (Reply 12):
I can't see this aircraft cheap to operate, so exploting it on scheduled services is simply beyond logic, right? Or am I missing something here?
Quoting larshjort (Reply 19):
There are quite a few PC-12s flying around because it can fly where people wants to go. The PC-24 will be able to do most of those missions faster.
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 21):
Now someone looking for an upgrade to the PC12 can keep it in the family.

So how do the PC-12 and PC-24 compare in Terms of purchase Price and running costs?


Are there already confirmed customers? Projected yearly frames?
// You know you're an aviation enthusiast if you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
 
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BlueSky1976
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 10:05 am

Quoting Semaex (Reply 30):
Are there already confirmed customers? Projected yearly frames?
Quote:
The first two years of production – equivalent to 82 aircraft – is already sold out and Pilatus plans to reopen the orderbook in late 2019 to early 2020.
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...rsatile-jet39-takes-to-the-412159/

Waiting list is closed until 2019.
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bjorn14
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 10:32 am

The Phenom 300 is single pilot, carries 6 pax, has roughly the same range and cost $3MM less. So is a big cargo door and rough field capability worth that much extra? The Pilatus is a good looking bird though.
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INNflight
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):
The Phenom 300 is single pilot, carries 6 pax, has roughly the same range and cost $3MM less. So is a big cargo door and rough field capability worth that much extra? The Pilatus is a good looking bird though.

A lot of people drive around cities with Range Rovers and Jeeps, all with four-wheel drive and gadgets, even though they would be fine with a standard car.  

Can't see that being the problem. As mentioned the first two years of production are already sold-out.
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larshjort
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 11:53 am

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):
The Phenom 300 is single pilot, carries 6 pax, has roughly the same range and cost $3MM less. So is a big cargo door and rough field capability worth that much extra? The Pilatus is a good looking bird though.

Where are you going to put the 4 extra pax in a Phenom 300? And where can you buy a new Phenom 300 for $5,9MM ?
Pilatus is saying ~$8,9MM in 2017 money.

http://corporatejetinvestor.com/arti...s/pilatus-pc24-v-cj4-v-phenom-300/

Quoting Semaex (Reply 30):
So how do the PC-12 and PC-24 compare in Terms of purchase Price and running costs?

So how do the PC-12 and PC-24 compare in Terms of purchase Price and running costs?[/quote]
I don't think they can be compared. The PC-24 is at least 50% more expensive + you have 2 turbofans compared to one turboprop.
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
r2rho
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 12:27 pm

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 21):
a friend was a corporate PC12 pilot. They would fly a thousand miles or more at a time. They loved the PC12, but they needed something a bit faster. I believe they settled for a Citation.

Now someone looking for an upgrade to the PC12 can keep it in the family.

Good point, and it is quite possible that Pilatus was observing this behavior you describe among a sufficient number of customers to see a business case to launch the PC-24.
 
queb
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 2:11 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 34):

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 32):
The Phenom 300 is single pilot, carries 6 pax, has roughly the same range and cost $3MM less. So is a big cargo door and rough field capability worth that much extra? The Pilatus is a good looking bird though.

Where are you going to put the 4 extra pax in a Phenom 300? And where can you buy a new Phenom 300 for $5,9MM ?
Pilatus is saying ~$8,9MM in 2017 money.

List price of the Phenom 300 is $8.75m

http://www.sherpareport.com/aircraft...view/costs-embraer-phenom-300.html

"A new Embraer Phenom 300 has a list price of $8.76m. The cost of a used plane ranges between $7.0m and $8.7m.

The total cost of ownership per year of the Phenom 300 is $1,505,487, including market depreciation of $350,200 or $2,030,787 including book depreciation of $875,500. Both figures include fixed costs per year of $343,380."
 
b747400erf
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 3:05 pm

The PC-12 was much cheaper until goverments started buying them, like the United States Air Force. Once Pilatus could get governments to buy them they started raising prices, and used prices went up too. I bet they priced the PC-21 higher than it could be in the expectation of governments now buying the jet.
 
nitepilot79
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 37):
The PC-12 was much cheaper until goverments started buying them, like the United States Air Force

You say "governments", yet you only mention the The United States. Could you explain this?
 
FoxBravo
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Tue May 12, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting nitepilot79 (Reply 38):
You say "governments", yet you only mention the The United States. Could you explain this?

There's a fairly long list of government and military users here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12#Government
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Viscount724
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Wed May 13, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 39):
Quoting nitepilot79 (Reply 38):
You say "governments", yet you only mention the The United States. Could you explain this?

There's a fairly long list of government and military users here: PC-12#Government" target="_blank">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilatus_PC-12#Government

Of the 89 PC-12s currently registered in Canada, 16 are operated by the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, part of the federal government.
 
Ruscoe
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Wed May 13, 2015 8:21 am

The RFDS (Royal Flying Doctor Service) Australia operate a number of PC12's and have PC 24 on order. This is not strictly a Govt organisation but heavily funded by Govt.
The aircraft are used to deliver medical and nursing professionals to remote clinics, and for aeromedical transport.
They often land on short dirt strips.

Ruscoe
 
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JetBuddy
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Wed May 13, 2015 10:37 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 41):

The RFDS (Royal Flying Doctor Service) Australia operate a number of PC12's and have PC 24 on order. This is not strictly a Govt organisation but heavily funded by Govt.
The aircraft are used to deliver medical and nursing professionals to remote clinics, and for aeromedical transport.
They often land on short dirt strips.

Yeah, I was going to mention this as well. The PC-24 will be the perfect medevac aircraft. Fast, reliable, big cargo door, dirt strip/grass strip capable, short field capable, single pilot certified.

I think this aircraft will be hugely successful, something the filled up orderbook confirms.
 
atct
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RE: Pilatus PC24 Flies!

Wed May 13, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Hmm - I wonder if this will loosen the Cessna Caravan's grip on the small commuter market segment?

The PC-12 is cheaper in all respected to the PC-24 and it hasn't made large in-rows into the commuter business. There are a few operators but still far outnumbered by the cheaper to buy, and fly, cessna 208.

I think the PC-24 is a great jet and will have a fantastic future, just not initially with bush operators who aren't government funded. It's too expensive for now.
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