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tortugamon
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EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 3:36 pm

In this interview by The National Sir Tim Clark states two pieces of info I found to be interesting. The first revolves around new US routes from DXB and the second revolves around 5th freedom rights from Europe (CPH and ARN are loosely referenced).

(1)
"...Why should we stop our expansion? Orlando has been knocking on our door for a long time, and as soon as we opened that route the mayor of Miami went nuclear, wanting us to fly there too.

“Places like Denver and Fort Lauderdale would love to have Emirates flying there, because when you come into those kinds of airports you bring half of the Middle East and Africa with you. There are multiple entities in the US who are sick and tired of the troika,” he added.

(2)
“Expand further from European hubs into the US? Yes, we might do that,” Mr Clark said. “The kind of abuse we’ve been getting might cause us to do it. And after Milan, we can see how profitable it is. If the Danes or the Swedes were to come to us and say ‘we haven’t got enough flights to the US, would you consider it?’ Yes we might do that.”

http://www.thenational.ae/business/a...w-us-routes-despite-open-skies-row

I thought the statement about MIA was very interesting and the note about FTL is fascinating. Many think the runway is too short. The importance of B6 appears to be very clear as EK has recently announced more expansion at JFK, BOS, and MCO which are all B6 hubs making FLL very intriguing from that perspective as well. DEN airport has always been pushing the envelope to get additional service and is willing to subsidize when necessary.

5th freedom rights from CPH and ARN would spark hostile responses in my opinion.

More fuel on the fire!

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B747forever
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 3:47 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
5th freedom rights from CPH and ARN would spark hostile responses in my opinion.

Really, now that the last US carrier drops ARN, and none flies into CPH.

Would LOVE to have EK fly TATL from ARN. Then CPH can keep SAS intercontinental as much as they want.
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chrisnh
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 3:52 pm

CPH and ARN to Boston via EK is, I think, very possible. Are those routes 'too thin' for a 777-300? I would say 'Yes.' But that's where the 777-200LRs come in.
 
frostyj
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:05 pm

For goodness sake haven't they got enough American destinations? There comes a time when airlines have to slow expansion down.
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B747forever
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:07 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):
There comes a time when airlines have to slow expansion down.

Why when they can do it profitably?
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tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
5th freedom rights from CPH and ARN would spark hostile responses in my opinion.
Really, now that the last US carrier drops ARN, and none flies into CPH.

I just think transatlantic traffic is a more closely held jewel of the European and North American airlines and that routes such as these 5th freedom flights would be seen as more hostile to their profits. I think we saw the backlash of EK's MXP-JFK flight as an indication of these hostilities both in Europe and in the North America.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
Are those routes 'too thin' for a 777-300? I would say 'Yes.' But that's where the 777-200LRs come in.

All the more reason why there is speculation that EK will purchase a fleet of regional aircraft. I shutter to think what EK could do with dozens of fifth freedom rights in Europe and a fleet of 787-10s.

Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):
For goodness sake haven't they got enough American destinations? There comes a time when airlines have to slow expansion down.

I think EK is in a traffic/market share grab right now and they want to be entrenched in a market before EY and QR do the same. B6 has something like a dozen Latin America destinations from FLL that EK does not fly to that I could see being valuable additions to the network.

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MAH4546
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:21 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
Really, now that the last US carrier drops ARN, and none flies into CPH.

United has not dropped Stockholm, and Delta flies to Copenhagen.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
CPH and ARN to Boston via EK is, I think, very possible. Are those routes 'too thin' for a 777-300? I would say 'Yes.' But that's where the 777-200LRs come in.

Those routes are too thin for a 77L, let alone a 77W. Needs a 757; or Norwegian could make it work with their business model. BOS to Scandinavia is half the size of LA/SF/South Florida, and that's just a few weekly 787s there to each (only FLL has a daily. IIRC).

While I absolutely think Emirates will keep expanding in a major way, claiming they will expand from smaller points like Copenhagen where the demand is thin and the the little demand there is is simply going to NY/CA/FL is ridiculous. Emirates will look to grow from large markets like Paris, Barcelona, Madrid, London, etc. to the extent they are allowed, if at all, because that's where they can profitably fill planes trans-Atlantic.
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adamh8297
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:32 pm

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
CPH and ARN to Boston via EK is, I think, very possible. Are those routes 'too thin' for a 777-300? I would say 'Yes.' But that's where the 777-200LRs come in.

I always thought that ME3 hub-BCN-BOS was the most likely 5th freedom route to BOS if any.

From that article - I would see BOS-LIS as being highly likely, if EK chooses to go that route, now especially with Portugal's view on the ME3.


The thin-ness of any of these routes (O+D between BOS and the European point) would be filled by connections on B6 in BOS, the ME3 hub, and possibly EasyJet, TP, or Vueling.

EK could also use A332 if needed
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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speedbored
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:33 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
DEN airport has always been pushing the envelope to get additional service and is willing to subsidize when necessary.

Well that would make me laugh a lot if the first genuinely provable EK subsidy ended up coming from the US3s back yard  
 
B747forever
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
United has not dropped Stockholm, and Delta flies to Copenhagen.

Well UA is going seasonal. Would rather have EK than seasonal 757s. Isnt Delta also seasonal at CPH?
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tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
Those routes are too thin for a 77L, let alone a 77W. Needs a 757

MXP-JFK is now an A380 on EK and its not like Milan is that much bigger than the broader ARN or CPH region? I have noticed that EK made the extra stop in MXP from DXB rather price competitive compared to DXB-JFK direct and as many South Asian and African flyers tend to be price sensitive I could see EK pricing the extra stop competitively to fill any seats that can't otherwise be filled by O&D traffic alone. Also, I fully suspect that these ARN/CPH routes would be connected to either BOS or JFK where there are dozens of connections via B6. CPH is already an A380 route for EK. Why not pick up some additional passengers and head on to JFK from there?

Quoting speedbored (Reply 8):
Well that would make me laugh a lot if the first genuinely provable EK subsidy ended up coming from the US3s back yard

It is my understanding that airports/cities giving holidays on landing fees and other fees is a very common occurrence in international commercial aviation. I don't think this was part of the subsidies mentioned in fair skies. Regardless, we are already have a topic on that discussion so if it is ok by you, it would be best to keep that conversation over there.  

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liftsifter
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:55 pm

Great news for the consumer, and also good for EK for not taking it lying down. There's no good reason for them to stop their expansion.
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silentbob
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 4:57 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):
All the more reason why there is speculation that EK will purchase a fleet of regional aircraft. I shutter to think what EK could do with dozens of fifth freedom rights in Europe and a fleet of 787-10s.

They need to find places to fly all of the A380s on order first.
 
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:03 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):

Maybe but I kind of agree with the American airlines. I don't think a foreign airline should be allowed to come in and take over all the routes putting the local airlines out of business.
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10):

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
Those routes are too thin for a 77L, let alone a 77W. Needs a 757

MXP-JFK is now an A380 on EK and its not like Milan is that much bigger than the broader ARN or CPH region?

MXP-JFK is a much bigger market but there has to be people taking the following

B6 spoke-JFK-MXP-DXB-EK Spoke
B6 spoke-JFK-MXP-DXB
JFK-MXP-DXB-EK Spoke

not the highest yielding but it must work for EK.
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

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MAH4546
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 10):
MXP-JFK is now an A380 on EK and its not like Milan is that much bigger than the broader ARN or CPH region?

Yes, it is much bigger, both in population and in market size to the United States. The population of the Milan metropolitan area is 60% larger than all of Denmark.
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tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 13):
Maybe but I kind of agree with the American airlines. I don't think a foreign airline should be allowed to come in and take over all the routes putting the local airlines out of business.

At the same time a local municipality that owns an airport should have the right to strike whatever deal they need to in order to get the airline service that they feel would best serve their community. I hardly believe that less than a handful of flights would put an otherwise healthy airline out of business.

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 14):
not the highest yielding but it must work for EK.

There certainly can be some 3-stoppers in there but I think it is largely 2-stoppers and the high-end J fares for direct in between makes the flights profitable.

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 15):
Yes, it is much bigger, both in population and in market size to the United States. The population of the Milan metropolitan area is 60% larger than all of Denmark.

I have the population of Denmark as 5.6 million and the Milan metro area as 5.3 million. Regardless, I give you that it is definitely bigger but if they can make that route successful in a fairly quick period of time I don't see how they can't similarly develop these other fifth freedom destinations even if it is with smaller-than-an-A380 aircraft.

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jacobin777
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
They need to find places to fly all of the A380s on order first.

A number of A380's on order/delivery might be for fleet replacement.
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lesfalls
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 5:47 pm

Wouldn't CPH and ARN not work with DY offering low fares (even lower then SK,UA and DL) to JFK and other American cities?(I think that's why UA made their Scandinavia routes seasonal?)
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silentbob
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
A number of A380's on order/delivery might be for fleet replacement.

I'm sure a number of them will be used for that purpose, but they still have a lot of expansion to do with the aircraft that they have on order. I wouldn't think adding smaller aircraft for marginal routes would be a priority at this point.
 
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Miami
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Thread starter):
Why should we stop our expansion? Orlando has been knocking on our door for a long time, and as soon as we opened that route the mayor of Miami went nuclear, wanting us to fly there too.

I'll be waiting for EK in MIA. This is long overdue. At least in my opinion.   

Hopefully they'll listen to the people in South Florida and finally give us what we want.

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 2):
But that's where the 777-200LRs come in.

Would be a waste of a frame.
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miaintl
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 8:21 pm

With QR and TK going daily to MIA this fall, I personally dont think we will see EK at MIA anytime soon. The market has been fully satisfied for what it is.
 
tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 8:26 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
They need to find places to fly all of the A380s on order first.

Look to nearly any 77W route to an airport that is A380 compliant as a possible destination for the next 40 or so A380s. I see the fleet topping out around 100 (!) units and I don't see many 77W destinations that can't go with an A380 in a handful of years' time (assuming the airport can handle).

Quoting Miami (Reply 20):
I'll be waiting for EK in MIA. This is long overdue.

The pattern that we are seeing with EK flying to B6 hubs makes me think that FLL might have a higher probability than MIA considering the competition at MIA. I would not have thought that 6-months ago.

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747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 8:58 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 5):
I just think transatlantic traffic is a more closely held jewel of the European and North American airlines and that routes such as these 5th freedom flights would be seen as more hostile to their profits

Absolutely. The resistance to the ME3 expansion we have seen so far is nothing. It just just a preview of what is to come. Wait till the ME3 expansion makes inroads into the TATL market. It will turn into a full scale brawl with both the EU & US govts getting involved.
 
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:09 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 20):
Hopefully they'll listen to the people in South Florida and finally give us what we want.
Quoting B747forever (Reply 1):
Would LOVE to have EK fly TATL from ARN. Then CPH can keep SAS intercontinental as much as they want.

I hear these kind of sentiment on this forum a lot, but I always wonder how often someone who gets so excited for the new service would actually use it? Once every couple of years? Would it really be that troublesome to make an extra connection every few years?
 
jacobin777
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting silentbob (Reply 19):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 17):
A number of A380's on order/delivery might be for fleet replacement.

I'm sure a number of them will be used for that purpose, but they still have a lot of expansion to do with the aircraft that they have on order. I wouldn't think adding smaller aircraft for marginal routes would be a priority at this point.
Quoting tortugamon (Reply 22):
Quoting silentbob (Reply 12):
They need to find places to fly all of the A380s on order first.

Look to nearly any 77W route to an airport that is A380 compliant as a possible destination for the next 40 or so A380s. I see the fleet topping out around 100 (!) units and I don't see many 77W destinations that can't go with an A380 in a handful of years' time (assuming the airport can handle).

  
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LAX772LR
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):
There comes a time when airlines have to slow expansion down.

Not when you have a hundred something A380s incoming.  

That, and as expansion slows, costs rise. They know that, and probably want to stay in heavy expansion mode as long as they can muster.


Quoting mah4546 (Reply 6):
claiming they will expand from smaller points like Copenhagen where the demand is thin and the the little demand there is is simply going to NY/CA/FL is ridiculous.

Though should they actually attempt such, it'd play right into the US3's claims. I bet Anderson's rooting for just that.
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747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:26 pm

Quoting aeropix (Reply 24):
Once every couple of years? Would it really be that troublesome to make an extra connection every few years?

Believe me, it would be troublesome. Ask the folks living in San Diego. For those folks even that once in a year international trip involves the horror of a drive up I-5&I-405 to LAX or taking one of those regional jets to LAX/SFO/PHX to make an international connection..all the while hoping you don't miss your connection. Those folks would say .."the least we could ask for is being connected non stop to primary international gateways like CDG, FRA, AMS". Thankfully they are connected to LHR & NRT at least. Hopefully for SAN; 787 works out to be the "game changer" that it promises to be and opens up more non stop international connectivity. I don't know about south florida; but SoCAL region seems underserved with international connections given that fact that you have a huge swath of Orange County & San Diego County with many people making those once or twice in a year foreign trips having to depend on LAX. Maybe the south Florida region that Miami (Reply 20): was talking about has the same problem? [note that i am not familiar with the dynamics in that region though].
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 27):
you have a huge swath of Orange County & San Diego County with many people making those once or twice in a year foreign trips having to depend on LAX.

That's more a factor of them having shitty airports than anything else though.

If both SNA and SAN had parallel 3500m+ runways, and the tarmac area to house multiple widebodies at the same time; they'd probably see all kinds of longhaul service.

And even then, I don't really know what SAN's whining about. Despite its logistical and geographic limitations, it still has scheduled nonstop service to both Europe and east Asia, on network legacy carriers... so it's doing better than about 98% of the other airports out there.

Heck, even major hubs like MIA, PHL, CLT, and PHX can't claim that.

[Edited 2015-05-12 14:50:12]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 28):
If both SNA and SAN had parallel 3500m+ runways, and the tarmac area to house multiple widebodies at the same time; they'd probably see all kinds of longhaul service.

Agreed. If not two parallel runways SNA can at least start with a longer runway. But that is not going to happen thanks to the neighbors in upscale Newport Beach. Even with an extended runway SNA could have seen the odd B 787 service to NRT or LHR.
 
strfyr51
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 9:54 pm

Quoting B747forever (Reply 4):
Quoting frostyj (Reply 3):There comes a time when airlines have to slow expansion down.
Why when they can do it profitably?

******************************************************************************************************************************************
There's no evodence they can do it profitably, BUT??? If they expand and fly enough "loss leading" Rutes?
Those are the routes they can easily Give up to maintain the ones they wish to Keep.
 
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Miami
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:01 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 22):
FLL might have a higher probability than MIA

Yet, I'm almost certain FLL can't handle EK.
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747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:16 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 28):
I don't really know what SAN's whining about.

What they are whining about is that 1 service to NRT and 1 service to LHR isn't enough. It is a scratch on the surface.
 
tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:17 pm

Quoting aeropix (Reply 24):
I hear these kind of sentiment on this forum a lot, but I always wonder how often someone who gets so excited for the new service would actually use it? Once every couple of years? Would it really be that troublesome to make an extra connection every few years?

First of all I do think it does matter. If you find yourself flying to South Asia or the Middle East on a regular enough bases it is very exciting to get an EK service. It could carve out hours of hassle and a lesser quality airline.

But second of all I think it is impressive what new direct service can do for a local economy. Connecting regions more efficiently does allow for tighter international connections and better trade which improves a community and adds jobs. You don't have to be a flyer to appreciate that.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 23):
It will turn into a full scale brawl with both the EU & US govts getting involved.

I certainly do believe it will get some airline people very frustrated.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 26):
Though should they actually attempt such, it'd play right into the US3's claims. I bet Anderson's rooting for just that.

When I learned to drive in India my teacher told me that its best to drive in the middle of the road as much as possible as if you are going to hit the upcoming car head on - that way you know there is room on your right when the car approaches for you to get over. If you start off to the right, you have nowhere to go if the other driver stays his course. I think there may be an analogy here; this is an easier chip for EK to trade in if push comes to shove and they need to make concessions.

Quoting Miami (Reply 31):
Yet, I'm almost certain FLL can't handle EK.

I don't think STC minces words and I really am surprised that he said FLL at all if he was not even considering it. I didn't think a 6k feet runway was long enough.

tortugamon
 
lpdal
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:23 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 31):
Yet, I'm almost certain FLL can't handle EK.

All Concourses at FLL can handle up to A330s, and C/D can handle aircraft up to the 747-400-"heavy" gates they call them. If you're speaking about immigration, yes, that would be a problem, but there are gates in FLL that can regularly handle heavy twins.

I'm sure the Broward County Aviation Authority would love to have EK, as well as Miami Dade. But I can't take this guy seriously when he says things like "There is money in Fort Lauderdale". What, money in an airport with an almost 8-way LCC/ULCC bloodbath? Lol? He should be focusing on MIA! That's where the money is.  

Sometimes I have to wonder if the ME3 are just huge vanity projects of their respective governments...

-LPDAL

[Edited 2015-05-12 15:27:18 by LPDAL]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:39 pm

My money is on one of the ME3s pulling a bold stunt and announcing service to DEN. Like i mentioned in another thread, DEN being a 6 runway airport with the largest geographical land area in an important metropolitan region has embarrassingly low international connections. Other than NRT, LHR and FRA along with a few points in Mexico you are pretty much looking at minimum 2 stops with as many plane changes to get to anywhere in the world outside USA.

[Edited 2015-05-12 15:43:50]
 
centrex
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 10:51 pm

Having 6 runways has nothing much to do with gaining air service. LGW is operated on 1. DEN will get a CDG service next 2 years or so. Doubt they will get ME3s
 
747megatop
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting centrex (Reply 36):
Having 6 runways has nothing much to do with gaining air service

I know that. I was just highlighting the infrastructure that is available at hand which any other land starved airport like LHR, LAX, SAN or for that matter even a third world country airport like BOM (30+ international destinations) would die for. Seems like overbuilt infrastructure  . DEN has often been criticized as a white elephant - https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1350&dat=19931222&id=b4VSAAAAIBAJ&sjid=VgMEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4338,6856325&hl=en
 
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adamh8297
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 11:05 pm

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):

My money is on one of the ME3s pulling a bold stunt and announcing service to DEN.

They haven't really stuck it to Smisek and Co. lately in the recent additions though they already are in all hubs except DEN and EWR: maybe they are saving those last weapons for later on in the battle. DEN is the dagger - EWR is the nuke.
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centrex
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 11:20 pm

First thing for DEN must be Paris. Just not sure who will fly that one. Second to get MUC back which was operated for a year ´ö8. Then on the MDE not sure. Is the Indian population large there in Colorado, it sure is in Seattle. MDE3 will affect both PAR and MUC ambitions and the FRA service of course so those things are interlinked
 
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HALtheAI
Posts: 296
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 11:25 pm

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 33):
I don't think STC minces words and I really am surprised that he said FLL at all if he was not even considering it. I didn't think a 6k feet runway was long enough.
Wikipedia (admittedly not the most reliable source) says longest runway at FLL is 9000 ft, so might just be long enough for flights to Dubai.
 
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Miami
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Tue May 12, 2015 11:31 pm

I like how MIA is a sponsor for AGM 2015 in Miami. And Mr. Clark will be there.      
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
tortugamon
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 12:05 am

Quoting lpdal (Reply 34):
All Concourses at FLL can handle up to A330s, and C/D can handle aircraft up to the 747-400-"heavy" gates they call them.

I think runway length is the primary restriction.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
Other than NRT, LHR and FRA along with a few points in Mexico you are pretty much looking at minimum 2 stops with as many plane changes to get to anywhere in the world outside USA.

I don't understand. If you live in the DEN area NRT, LHR, and FRA give you some excellent destinations in Asia and Europe with just that one stop.

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 40):
Wikipedia (admittedly not the most reliable source) says longest runway at FLL is 9000 ft, so might just be long enough for flights to Dubai.

My bad, I meant to say 8,000. 10-28 was 8,000 not 9,000. I do think 9k would be enough.

tortugamon
 
greenjet
Posts: 875
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2001 9:59 pm

RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 12:20 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):
My bad, I meant to say 8,000. 10-28 was 8,000 not 9,000. I do think 9k would be enough.

10L-28R is 9,000 ft; 10R-28L is 8,000ft.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 12:54 am

A 77W is only good for ~318t off 9000ft. Certainly not enough TOW for an ~ 13.5hr FLL- DXB leg with a 40t payload. A 569t A380 with 54t payload would make it off 9000ft. at about 550t TOW>
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 4:53 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 30):
There's no evodence they can do it profitably

....ya mean, other than their massive profits, right?

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 32):
It is a scratch on the surface.

Who's to say that the airport justifies more? Again, it can boast what a FARRRR more powerful int'l gateway like MIA cannot: service to east Asia.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
DEN being a 6 runway airport with the largest geographical land area in an important metropolitan region has embarrassingly low international connections.

Neither of which has anything to do with attaining int'l service...

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
Other than NRT, LHR and FRA along with a few points in Mexico you are pretty much looking at minimum 2 stops with as many plane changes to get to anywhere in the world outside USA.

Why should a metro with less than 3million people and a comparatively low corporate presence--- have more than that?

Quoting centrex (Reply 36):
DEN will get a CDG service next 2 years or so.

Based on what?

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 37):
I was just highlighting the infrastructure that is available at hand

Ask Mirabel how much "available infrastructure" has to do with luring/maintaining int'l cnnx.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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ADent
Posts: 1099
Joined: Fri Dec 22, 2006 12:11 pm

RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 5:14 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 35):
My money is on one of the ME3s pulling a bold stunt and announcing service to DEN. Like i mentioned in another thread, DEN being a 6 runway airport with the largest geographical land area in an important metropolitan region has embarrassingly low international connections. Other than NRT, LHR and FRA along with a few points in Mexico you are pretty much looking at minimum 2 stops with as many plane changes to get to anywhere in the world outside USA.

What about KEF and all the places FI can take you with one stop?

How far can a 77L or 77W go from Denver with its high altitude? Would probably need a late night or early morning departure in the summer. Runway length is not a concern at DEN, though wheel speed is.


DEN-Europe-DXB should work. LH does the DEN-Europe part fine, though typically with 4 engine airplanes.
 
LH422
Posts: 391
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 6:01 am

EK used to fly HAM-JFK and that didn't work out for them. I suppose the still have the rights for that route?
 
mjoelnir
Posts: 9391
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2013 11:06 pm

RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 42):
I think runway length is the primary restriction.

A 737-900ER and also a 777-300ER need at MTOW a slightly longer runway than a A380-800.
The A380 needs at MTOW 9,680 ft. FLL to DXB would hardly need a full load of fuel.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: EK Hints At Next US Destinations?

Wed May 13, 2015 7:29 am

Quoting ADent (Reply 46):
How far can a 77L or 77W go from Denver with its high altitude?

For the sake of comparison, DL's been doing JNB-ATL for years.

DEN-DXB would be 700mi shorter, plus DEN is lower altitude than JNB and has a longer runway.
So with that in mind, it shouldn't be much of a problem for the 77L, in terms of physical operation.

Now whether the market's there to sustain it, is of course another story.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil

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