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savethequads
Posts: 37
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:14 am

I don't really understand these situations. I fly Alaska currently and America West/US Airways In the past. I travel with 5 people at least twice a year and I have never had one single issue. I always walk right past the ticket counter and never say a word other than "thanks" to the gate attendant. Of course, I always plan at least 1 month 2 weeks in advance and I confirm my e-tickets are all the seats that I selected.

Seems like poor planning and an opportunistic "blogger"
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting eastalt (Reply 48):
I do not believe this story. THIS is a lie pure and simple. The Flight Crew would have fixed it before the door closed. Everyone, please stop and think. I have been flying for a long time and I have never seen this happen. There is no reason for more regulation. It sounds to me he was accountable for what happen.

I have been separated 3 times when my kids were less than 12 years old all of US not even in pairs ALWYS in the good ol US of A.... so I guess I was elucidating and now I am lying..

I think as tragically the Absasheim A320 Crash proved that leaving a child (in this case with a disability) seated alone is a surefire way to ask for trouble in the event of an emergency....

TRB
The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
 
S75752
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:28 am

It costs $88 to select a seat on DL now? what the hell? was he in E+?

Quote:
11 rows away from his 4-year-old daughter and had to pay $88 to switch seats on a flight with "plenty of empty seats."

So if it's got plenty of empty seats, just ask someone nicely and switch seats with them :B

[Edited 2015-05-13 22:28:46]
 
2175301
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:37 am

In the last 3+ years of marriage I have learned the following about airlines and assigned/paid seat selections.

Nothing is guaranteed; and the airlines will do what they decide to do. It does not matter that your reservation says you have assigned seating together. It does not matter even if you paid extra to get assigned seating together.

About 25% of the time me and my wife are split apart by the airline. No explanations, no real apologies, and not even refunding of the assigned seating fee in the one case where that happened.

Only one of these situations was a change of equipment situation.

It has been explained to me every time that the airline does its best to honor seating request; but, ultimately they have authority to change your seating.

In about half of the situations we have found passengers willing to swap seats so we could be together.


Have a great day,
 
Layman
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:38 am

The root problem here is that the majority of airlines do not have a comprehensive online menu when purchasing an e-ticket. I have a 10 year old daughter and when we travel together, we have to place additional comments (which does not get read) in the comments field as an option does not exist to tell the whole story.

To overcome this, we invariably arrive very early for our flights to ensure that our daughter is properly sorted. Problems also arise due to the lack of an identity document for the child. You cannot get any form of photo based formal ID if you are under 18 - yet one has to be produced. Another reason to arrive early. Inconvenient yes but we do get on the plane.
 
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green12324
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:52 am

We don't have enough info. Was the flight actually full? Did he have the option to assign seats?

I think that airlines shouldn't charge to assign seats if the customers are booked in the same pnr and one is a dependant. This is just a preventative measure to avoid this situation. As an airport agent I often have to work the other passengers to convince them to switch their seat for children, elderly, etc, and the other passengers often expect compensarion/miles I can't give.

It's no big deal on an empty flight, I'll assign the seats and even give them main cabin plus if they're being nice. On a full flight, however, it's hard to explain that the only seats I have available are 15 rows apart and to accommodate them would be to take from someone else.
The views expressed in this post are my own. They have not
been reviewed or approved by my employer.
 
lutfi
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:54 am

Quoting Layman (Reply 54):
To overcome this, we invariably arrive very early for our flights to ensure that our daughter is properly sorted. Problems also arise due to the lack of an identity document for the child. You cannot get any form of photo based formal ID if you are under 18 - yet one has to be produced. Another reason to arrive early. Inconvenient yes but we do get on the plane.

Yes you can - they are called passports.
 
737tdi
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:57 am

I'm not going to read this thread because my airline does not have this problem. I all of my flying though I have never had this problem. I think that when this dude was doing his ticket he had the choice of selecting seats but probably went cheap. Ya wanna bet???? He thought he could cheat the system and save $50 or $75. I bet ya it is true. You all do it and get by. Ya wanna bet???
 
aa777lvr
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 8:26 am

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 47):
About 2 years ago I was on a flight, DTW-ATL, with not a seat open. Seated next to me was a child, couldn't have been older than 10 years. I was seated in a row immediately behind Economy Comfort. I asked the kid if he was traveling alone and he said his parents were seated in the back, a couple rows in front of the last row. I walked back and asked the parents if one of them wanted to trade seats, and the father couldn't have been more grateful. He said he was about to ask the flight attendant if something could be done right before I walked over. I spent the next hour and half next to a loud JT8D, but the kid was seated next to his dad instead of some stranger and that's what mattered. His mother was very talkative though, I'll say that.

First, thanks for being accommodating. Secondly, huh? If I read this correctly, the mom and dad sat together in the back and left the kid to sit alone somewhere else in the cabin. Sounds like another case of ignorant parents. Why didn't one of the parents take the separated 3rd seat so the other parent could sit with the young child?

This blogger wants more regulation. I want more common sense and taking responsibility for one's own actions.

AA777LVR
 
S75752
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 9:04 am

Quoting lutfi (Reply 56):

Yes you can - they are called passports.

Also State ID's are available from the DMV to any age in most states. Basically a license without the license.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 9:34 am

Just FYI for some of you who think that it's easy to get seat assignments for your family when you book the tix...here in Europe, there are a great deal of airlines who will not assign you seating until you check-in...usually between 24-36 hours before flight. Luckily, I haven't had to deal with the great seat swap dilemma to get seats with my wife and daughter, but I've seen PLENTY of times over here where the folks have to wait til they get to the airport to get seats together with their children...most of the time the check-in agents just pass them off to the gate agents.
 
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N776AU
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 11:18 am

I haven't seen or heard the details. Did he book the economy fare that's cheapest that's also lacking seat assignments until the day of? If so Delta definitely tells you that when booking. If that's in fact the case I have ZERO sympathy for him. I really don't have much anyway. If he booked the ticket through any conventional means selecting seats should have been easy.
Careful, doors are closing, and will not reopen. Please wait for the next train.
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 11:23 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 44):
It is amazing how people just don't understand that some things really do need to come before the almighty dollar.

It is amazing how people think that just because they don't agree with a rule, or have cancer/a small child/puppies/grandma/a funeral to attend that they are entitled to break the rule, and then to add insult to injury, they actually expect the product and/or services to still be rendered after they break corporate policy. And then when they don't get their free stuff, they go cry fowl to the media, as if nobody else has to pay Y+ fees as those were the only seats left in tandem at that time.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2015-05-14 04:26:15]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
S75752
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 11:41 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 62):
as if nobody else has to pay Y+ fees as those were the only seats left in tandem at that time.

Okay, so the issue was paying for a seat assignment to sit together in Y+, not for a seat assignment elsewhere to sit together?
 
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neutrino
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 11:49 am

Quoting CV880 (Reply 13):
Back in the old days was nice to give a person a better seat if they would relinquish their seat to accommodate another passenger.

I did that before and was unexpectedly & pleasantly rewarded.
Way, way back in the last century, I was requested at the gate to give up my assigned seat for a family. As I was on an aisle seat as have been my preference, I agreed provided its another aisle bump rest. The agent checked on her screen, and after a quite a few seconds, smiled and simply said yes. I trusted her and didn't even glance at my new boarding pass but headed straight for the plane. I was happily surprised when I was directed to the business section.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 11:56 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 63):

Okay, so the issue was paying for a seat assignment to sit together in Y+, not for a seat assignment elsewhere to sit together?

When reading these articles, you have to consider that there is a severe slant towards the father that is exacerbated by the use of a "cute, sensitive" object--in this case, this four year old child. Thus, anything the father says should be rationalized and put up against DL's side of the story before they are compared.

Anyway, re-reading the article, it seems the father played the proverbial "seat roulette" as explained by other posters above, which resulted in him being sat several rows from his child. He offered to switch seats, but regular Y (Y-?) was full, so he was offered an upgrade to Y+ where there were two empty seats next to each other. He refused to pay the charge, instead insisting that since the child was four years old, he should get automatic seating next to the kid, which leads into my next point: A large number of folks feel that since they have cancer, or since they have a toddler or infant, or since they have puppies, or since they have a grandma in their party, or since they fought overseas etc. etc. sensitive topics ad nauseam that they should receive complimentary products that other people have to pay for due to the presence of the "sensitive topic" entity.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
us330
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 12:51 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 65):
He offered to switch seats, but regular Y (Y-?) was full, so he was offered an upgrade to Y+ where there were two empty seats next to each other

He clarified in his comments--the reason he was pissed about being forced to pay for an upgrade was that there were empty seats in economy (not just economy plus) on that plane where he and his daughter could have been accommodated.
Oh, and he declined Delta's offer to refund his fee, since he wasn't looking for a handout.

Having been non-elite for the past several months while still flying regularly (two roundtrips a month), I too am convinced that airlines regularly block empty seats while promoting empty "choice" seats--several times, I've only had the option of selecting middle seats when I've booked in advance, only to discover that on the day of the flight, aisle or window seats (in regular economy) are available.

There's a very simple remedy for this: airlines are not permitted to show seats as occupied or unavailable unless they actually have someone assigned to that particular seat.
 
aa777lvr
Posts: 198
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 1:12 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 66):
I've only had the option of selecting middle seats when I've booked in advance, only to discover that on the day of the flight, aisle or window seats (in regular economy) are available.

You need to also understand that your choice of seats also is dependent on your status and/or fare paid. If you have status on a carrier, your options in terms of pre-reserved seats are larger as a benefit of your patronage. If you pay for a less restrictive ticket (i.e. refundable ) you also are afforded more options in terms of pre-reserved seats.

Lastly, the reason for open seats once the door closes are many. Did irregular operations cause people to misconnect and result in extra open seats? Did the flight prior run late and some of your frequent travelers caught that trip? Another reason for open seats also results from last-minute upgrades. Delta rewards it's upper level SkyMiles members with complimenatary upgrades to vacant FC seats on most domestic flights. These cabin upgrades are down 10-45 mins before departure. This naturally leaves open coach seats (often good ones...windows/aisles) open....see above paragraph on pre-reserving seats as a traveller with status). This is also a measure of flexibility incorporated into seat moves to accomodate families.

AA777LVR
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 1:33 pm

I cannot tell you how many times I have asked passengers to trade seats so I could keep a parent with a small child--and they refuse. Sometimes all it was a simple switch from one aisle seat across to the opposite side and they refused. Then I would smile as the child screamed for the entire flight.

The even better revenge was when people would really rudely refuse to change seats and I would finally get someone to volunteer I would make it a point to LOUDLY thank them for their cooperation and offer them an empty seat in FC if I had it. It was great karma to watch the jerk go into a psychotic breakdown while everyone around him/her laughed.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
ikramerica
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting A332DTW (Reply 47):

Did the parents not know that one could swap seats with their son and then he would be sitting with one of them? Then again I flew as an unaccompanied minor in 4th grade. This kid could handle a short flight by himself.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 62):

You are obviously one of the few people born an adult. Otherwise you would understand the importance of seating a 4 year old next to a parent.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
nitepilot79
Topic Author
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 2:14 pm

The thing I can't get past, is that essentially a kindergartner flew unaccompanied, as an unaccompanied minor, with all parties aware, yet nothing could be done?
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 2:21 pm

There is nothing in the article to suggest that sitting next to the child was of any priority, as he refused to pay the fee if he wanted to sit next to the four year old. If he really cared about it to that degree, he would have bit the bullet and paid the Y+ upgrade fee, which couldn't have been over $100 PP.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 2:56 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 71):
he would have bit the bullet and paid the Y+ upgrade fee, which couldn't have been over $100 PP.

which had he actually just sent in a claim and a complaint to customer relations he probably would have just been reimbursed.
Flown to 147 Airports in 62 Countries on 83 Operators and counting. Wanderlust is like Syphilis, once you have the itch it's too late for treatment.
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 72):
which had he actually just sent in a claim and a complaint to customer relations he probably would have just been reimbursed.

The main point I took away from this article was that saving money was more important than sitting next to the child. If the opposite was true as so many here have claimed, he would have just bought the Y+ seats. That he didn't do that is a tantamount signal as to the fact that he cared more about saving money than sitting next to the child.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
PMUA787
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 3:59 pm

When i worked for FL many moons ago at a certain outstation during our long downtime between the last evening flight to ATL and the RON I would print up the manifests as backup for the next day in case the computers went down and I would go thru them and find PNR's with multiple people on them who most of time were families traveling and assign them seats in the same or a row near them. It was just good customer service and helped expedite the check-in process especially for the first flight in the morning to which the outstation was judged the most for.
 
audian
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 4:18 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 73):

So you almost said, one has to spend money to buy a bit of humanity from an airline. Which I think is ridiculous and unfortunate because airline is using an opportunity( here it's a father who wants to sit with his child) to sell Y+.

I assume airline industry is run by humans and for humans. There should be some sense of helpfulness and courtesy by the agents at the counters towards their customers. And airlines also should encourage their agents to offer favors (such as allocating adjacent seats to family members when available).
 
billreid
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 4:26 pm

Quoting LAXtoATL (Reply 4):
However, parents need to take some responsibility. Don't wait until the day of travel to be outraged you are not sitting next to your small child. You knew when you purchased the ticket that you didn't have seats together, call the airline immediately to resolve this issue. If it wasn't important enough for you to be bothered before you arrived at the airport, then you shouldn't complain the airline didn't treat it as priority. In my experience, the airlines actually put more effort in ensuring parents and children sit together than parents actually do.

You anger me.
There are certain levels of expectations, and children with parents is absolutely one!
Most passengers dont fly frequently, and this leaves a burden of responsibility on airlines to take care of their customers not blame the passengers from everything that has ever gone wrong with their airline.
There needs to be a sense of ownership with DL, UA that is ALWAYS missing.
The DOT says UAL is not responsible for selling stupid priced tickets, right. The airlines lose pets, bags and even un-accompanied minors. So why is QUALITY simply not part of DL or UA?
Some people don't get it. Business is about making MONEY!
 
Freshside3
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 4:30 pm

Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 74):
When i worked for FL many moons ago at a certain outstation during our long downtime between the last evening flight to ATL and the RON I would print up the manifests as backup for the next day in case the computers went down and I would go thru them and find PNR's with multiple people on them who most of time were families traveling and assign them seats in the same or a row near them. It was just good customer service and helped expedite the check-in process especially for the first flight in the morning to which the outstation was judged the most for.

I know some agents at UA that do similar work, as well, and thankfully.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I'd like to think the gate agent would've switched the seats easily if the flight wasn't packed as it was claimed. At the same time, some common sense and empowering ticketing agents would be an easy way to avoid layering more regulations on the industry.

But some passengers also forget to tell somebody, until the last minute, which makes it tough for the agents, especially during "crunch time" on full flight.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 68):
The even better revenge was when people would really rudely refuse to change seats and I would finally get someone to volunteer I would make it a point to LOUDLY thank them for their cooperation and offer them an empty seat in FC if I had it. It was great karma to watch the jerk go into a psychotic breakdown while everyone around him/her laughed.

I love seeing that happen, too, when people bullying agents get put in their place!

Quoting S75752 (Reply 59):
Also State ID's are available from the DMV to any age in most states. Basically a license without the license.

Not to mention the "Passport Card"-----useless for International air travel, but OK for int'l surface transportation.....and more than good enough for basic ID on DOMESTIC flights.
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 4:30 pm

My kids have reached the age where I'd cheerfully pay a fee to have them sit by someone else.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
A332DTW
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:08 pm

Quoting aa777lvr (Reply 58):
If I read this correctly, the mom and dad sat together in the back and left the kid to sit alone somewhere else in the cabin. Sounds like another case of ignorant parents. Why didn't one of the parents take the separated 3rd seat so the other parent could sit with the young child?

Shy and reluctant parents, but mind you this was during boarding. Like I said the father was about to ask the flight attendant if an accommodation could have been made before I walked over. Whether or not he would have, who knows. I was non-reving so it wasn't too difficult of a decision to make.

Quoting ikramerica (Reply 69):
Did the parents not know that one could swap seats with their son and then he would be sitting with one of them?

They wanted to, but I did it before the dad tried to make it work. I would guess they were waiting till after everyone was boarded and seated.
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:10 pm

"So you almost said, one has to spend money to buy a bit of humanity from an airline."

Yes, that is exactly what I said. If you don't pay or otherwise compensate a vendor, seller, or other entity for something, you have no reasonable expectation of any products or services being rendered.

Welcome to America, where people think that if you don't agree with a rule, you don't have to abide by it, and then get mad when the outcome isn't desirable.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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flyingclrs727
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting Layman (Reply 54):
You cannot get any form of photo based formal ID if you are under 18 - yet one has to be produced. Another reason to arrive early. Inconvenient yes but we do get on the plane.

It's possible to get a passport or passport card.
 
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mayor
Posts: 6218
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:21 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 76):

I don't understand.......your remarks don't fit with your signature.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
afcjets
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting blrsea (Reply 8):
All it takes is some child sitting with strangers to accuse them of inappropriate behavior, and the airlines will be sued for millions. Instead, it would be better to allow kids to sit next to at least one parent, if not both.

  

While I believe airlines have every right to nickel and dime passengers, even though I don't like it, IMO an airline absolutely should not be allowed to charge a premium for a small child to sit with their parent. After all, airlines would not accept a 4 year old unaccompanied minor. Back in the day airlines reserved X number of seats for airport checkin only, but I am guessing that number is shrinking as they now will put desirable seat assignments up for sale. And good luck getting someone to move who paid $88 extra for that aisle seat, so I agree this is an unintended consequence the airline created. Yes they want the extra revenue from these parents, but they do not want the bad press this article generated. Since DOBs are captured at time of booking, res systems should be programmed to display or assign seats together to families travelling with small children by dipping into the preferred seat inventory at no cost and/or the airport checkin only inventory if necessary. This should be common sense and no passenger bill of rights should be required. Airlines should be pre-emptive to prevent a push for this type legislation.

[Edited 2015-05-14 10:56:14]
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 83):
This should be common sense and no passenger bill of rights should be required.

Good luck getting a Passenger Bill of Rights in the current political climate.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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ssteve
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 6:03 pm

Quoting afcjets (Reply 83):
Since DOBs are captured at time of booking, res systems should be programmed to display or assign seats together to families travelling with small children by dipping into the preferred seat inventory at no cost and/or the airport checkin only inventory if necessary.

I more or less agree but the issue with late bookings is that it's not possible without hitting "undo" on someone else's supposedly reserved seat.

But honestly it makes a lot of sense to bump one person traveling alone up to Y+ to keep the family in back! No-brainer.
 
us330
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 6:14 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 73):
The main point I took away from this article was that saving money was more important than sitting next to the child. If the opposite was true as so many here have claimed, he would have just bought the Y+ seats. That he didn't do that is a tantamount signal as to the fact that he cared more about saving money than sitting next to the child.

That's very over-simplistic. He's not making that argument--he's making the argument that there are certain things that you shouldn't have to pay for that aren't considered "luxury goods" in that there are certain minimal expectations that must be met beyond those that are legally prescribed due to regulations (ie that each seat has to have a functioning seat belt).

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 80):
Welcome to America, where people think that if you don't agree with a rule, you don't have to abide by it, and then get mad when the outcome isn't desirable.

Welcome to America, where the lack of empathy for others is growing by the day.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 80):
If you don't pay or otherwise compensate a vendor, seller, or other entity for something, you have no reasonable expectation of any products or services being rendered

Key phrase that you used is "reasonable expectation," which is grounded in social context. I think many people would agree that it is reasonable to expect that a parent be seated next to their four year old child within the same class of service.

Flip this situation around. Say he wasn't able to sit next to his four year old child and somebody on the plane blogs about how the dad didn't care enough to sit next to his child, and is therefore a neglectful parent.

I get that there are plenty of examples of passengers who fail to help themselves (ie showing up last minute at the gate and demanding that the seats be reassigned when they should have done so at check-in or in advance)--this doesn't appear to be one of those situations.

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 84):
Good luck getting a Passenger Bill of Rights in the current political climate.

True, but if Airlines for America (the trade association for U.S. airlines) was smart, they would be encouraging airlines to adopt more consumer-friendly flexibility in their business practices so that the issue of passenger rights doesn't hit critical mass and becomes a legitimate talking point on Capitol Hill.

In general, the costs of complying with a new regulatory apparatus are almost always greater than the cost of voluntary adoption and practice by industry members.
 
rta
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 6:30 pm

I think airlines should try to seat parents and minors together.
 
lpdal
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:05 pm

Do people who ignore and therefore break corporate policy have any expectation to have products and services rendered still?

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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mayor
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:15 pm

Quoting rta (Reply 87):

I think airlines should try to seat parents and minors together.

I think parents should make sure they have reserved seats when they book themselves and their children, UNLIKE this gentleman.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:20 pm

Everyone slams allegiant, southwest, and spirit on this guess what the legacy carriers are guilty too. I can tell you southwest definitely would work to get parents and kids to sit together that is why no assigned seating is so much better. You want a WN plane board it is insanely faster too!
 
speedbird128
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:21 pm

Quoting sspontak (Reply 9):
The parent should take the responsibility for their decision

That's novel. One can only hope though. The lack of responsibility in many walks of life are strikingly obvious...

It's the same bulltwang as the flight diverted due to the threat of an autistic child's potential meltdown if they didn't "get a hot, not warm or cold meal" despite not making the airline aware of any special requirement...

The self entitlement attitude is appalling.
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nonrevman
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):

I know we do that when we book, but any kind of equipment or schedule change could suddenly leave you without those assigned seats you thought you had, and all of a sudden, you are holding four boarding passes with four scattered seats. We have a 6 and 8 year old, and no one other than us would want to be babysitting them in flight.

Getting someone to move and switch is also a dicey situation, because nowadays many of them have paid extra money to have that particular seat. It would be nice if the computer can automatically assign seats together if the child (children) are below a certain age.
 
rta
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
I think parents should make sure they have reserved seats when they book themselves and their children, UNLIKE this gentleman.

It is not always possible to reserve consecutive seats. It's a simple courtesy that could be extended by airlines to accommodate their passengers, the same way preboarding is available for those who need it or in the way that stroller check-in is not considered part of the standard baggage allowance. It's not really a big deal.
 
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ssteve
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:38 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 89):
I think parents should make sure they have reserved seats when they book themselves and their children, UNLIKE this gentleman.

That is sometimes impossible until after purchase.

At which point it's reasonable to expect the airline to try to accommodate the special circumstance of traveling with a minor. When they can easily do it by moving Y passengers to Y+, that's not exactly asking a lot. Or issue a refund because they refuse to. (Again, not asking a lot if it's the day of booking) I think part of the issue is that if you're a parent booking and you don't get the opportunity to choose seats after purchase, the instructions say to wait. Not call.
 
AirCalSNA
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:50 pm

Quoting eastalt (Reply 48):
I do not believe this story. THIS is a lie pure and simple. The Flight Crew would have fixed it before the door closed. Everyone, please stop and think. I have been flying for a long time and I have never seen this happen. There is no reason for more regulation. It sounds to me he was accountable for what happen.

I agree ... the story has a strong odor of set-up to it. Either that or the father is a complete moron and became belligerent when advised of the seat-change fee, which caused the ticketing agent to dig in her heels. It would have been so simple to solve this problem on the aircraft, but that would not have been a useful story.
 
ikramerica
Posts: 15100
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 7:58 pm

Quoting AirCalSNA (Reply 95):

Define belligerent. Because not simply agreeing to bend over and pay to sit next to your 4 year old child isn't out of line.

It's not like the customer was trying to pull a fast one. The airline could have moved a customer up into the kids seat and put the kid back with the dad.
Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
 
us330
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 8:07 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 88):
Do people who ignore and therefore break corporate policy have any expectation to have products and services rendered still?

When they've already paid for such product (in this case, a seat in economy class), and the request is reasonable, yes.
He was not asking for first class service with a bottle of Dom Perignon--he was merely asking to be sat next to his daughter.

Contrary to what you are saying, corporate policy isn't law and it isn't absolute. It also favors the corporation in question, which is why such policies can be invalidated through the courts.
Absolute adherence to corporate policy can lead to poor customer service--which is why any smart business permits its employees to override corporate policy when circumstances dictate and the request is reasonable.

For example, corporate policy at many airlines is that you have to pay to check your bags before boarding, yet many permit you to check them at the gate for free. That technically violates corporate policy too.

Again, this is not a question of seeking a free handout--the guy declined the airline's offer to refund him the difference between economy+ and economy.
 
audian
Posts: 176
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 2:05 pm

RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 9:08 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 88):

Do people who ignore and therefore break corporate policy have any expectation to have products and services rendered still?

Quoting LPDAL,reply=80:
Welcome to America, where people think that if you don't agree with a rule, you don't have to abide by it, and then get mad when the outcome isn't desirable.

-LPDAL

Allowing a child to sit with his father is a "product" that's available for purchase?

Wow! that's not what we do in America my friend.

[Edited 2015-05-14 14:10:24]
 
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b727fa
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RE: Shameless Seating-4 Year Old 11 Rows Away Or Pay

Thu May 14, 2015 9:24 pm

When people purchase the Basic Economy fare they are informed that they will receive a seat assignment at the gate. They get the last seats available. There is no guarantee members of the party will be seated together. If the other pax who paid for Economy (and a seat assignment) doesn't want to swap they can't be forced to. Crew members can *ask* someone to swap, but they are not obligated to "give up" what they paid for. Basic Economy is just that...basic. If you want to know your seat ahead of time, but the ticket that allows that. It's NO different than a person who buys premium seats behind home plate with wait staff service: you know exactly what you'll get, but if you buy the cheapest bleacher seats with general admission, then you get what you get when you enter the stadium. It's not heartless; it's business.

[Edited 2015-05-14 14:33:30]
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