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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting pvjin (Reply 150):
Perhaps he just had to reinstall his flight simulator, that happens from time to time with MS FSX which really isn't among the most faultless programs out there.

Perhaps that is indeed what happened. Perhaps not. I am guessing that a lot of unknowns / unknown truths with MH370, which there are many, will remain just that (eg: Was the cargo manifest released accurate? Why did only the SatCom come back online & at that time and location? Did a cell phone tower in Malaysia really pick up a single from the FO's cell phone - just the FO's cell phone? What info was extracted from the Captain's flight sim HD & if it was blank then why? Etc. Etc.).

It is quite sad that, mostly as a result of the handling of this incident from the beginning from the Malaysian authorities, we cast doubt on some of the few things we have been told about MH370.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 150):
I wonder if this info is indeed correct or just rumor based on nothing, I don't exactly have that much trust in the investigation done by Malaysian officials.

Who really knows.

It is for each of us to work out for ourselves what pieces of information to this incident that we take seriously or doubt / question.

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 149):No, it was the authorities in Malaysia who did that and it was the FBI who did the analysis of the hard drive and worked that out - as reported in many news articles and discussed in past threads.

Exactly - and they found nothing noteworthy on the system - after the find made it big time in the media at first.

Exactly - they found nothing because (if the claims in the media are correct) the files were deleted. If this is correct, then why were the files deleted?

Perhaps this entire element to the story in just a rumour? Perhaps the file were indeed deleted, but for a normal / innocent reason? Perhaps the files were deleted to hide something?

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
Nice try...

That is indeed perfectly good enough for me (but not for you it seems).

Until a credible story comes out that suggests otherwise, I will consider as probably true the media reports that reported that the files from the Captain's flight sim were deleted after the FBI conducted an analysis of the flight sim HD.

BTW your quote:

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
That is indeed perfectly good enough for me (but not for you it seems).

- quoted the following comment I made:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 149):
But I guess that is not good enough for you.
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 149):
I was not the one who raided his home, seized the flight sim hard drive, and did the analysis. No, it was the authorities in Malaysia who did that and it was the FBI who did the analysis of the hard drive and worked that out - as reported in many news articles and discussed in past threads.

So by saying "That is indeed perfectly good enough for me" in reply to what I wrote above it sounds as if you accept the notion that the files were indeed deleted, no?

The reports that those deleted file claims were made after an FBI analysis of the Captain's home flight sim HD are indeed good enough for me.

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
And I have NEVER claimed that the fact that the captain had a home flight sim made him in any way more likely or less likely as a candidate to "the pilot did it theory".

Neither have I.

But I don't dismiss the possible link between *the Captain did it* scenario and the 'deleted files from his flight sim HD' element. No, I don't dismiss that. *If* the Captain did it, and *if* the deleted files story is true, then some of those deleted files my have been relevant to what happened to MH370.

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
But when people claim - without any shade of evidence - that the captain did try the flight path on his home sim and deleted it afterwards....

Which members claimed that?

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
The "pilot did it" theory is cherished by at least certain parts of the Malay authorities.

All scenarios are cherished in different ways. The 'Captain did it' scenario still ticks the most boxes IMHO.

Quoting abba (Reply 151):
In short: It is rather safe so say that the flight path has not been rehearsed on the Z's home system.

In short: That assumption is extremely flawed.
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Sun Jun 28, 2015 2:08 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 152):
Exactly - they found nothing because (if the claims in the media are correct) the files were deleted. If this is correct, then why were the files deleted?

It was widely reported that Malaysia turned the flight sim hd over to the FBI SPECIFICALLY because THEIR (Malaysia) forensics had discovered scrubbed/deleted files that they were unable to retrieve.

In other words, files had been deleted to such a degree that they, despite their best efforts, were unable to retrieve them, Yet they KNEW those files existed. Thus, enter the FBI.

the FBI has never (to my knowledge) officially commented on what they discovered/did not discover. Media reports have ranged from 'nothing suspicious' to remote landing strips in the SIO'.

I take note that the US has largely (almost completely) refrained from any official comment on the MH370 event. Their certainly appears to be a genuine lack of concern by the intel community, as well as by the aviation community in general.

These observations from afar only further lend credence to the 'Zaharie as sole actor' theory, not that this scenario is in need of much further support, IMHO.
 
abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Sun Jun 28, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 152):
The reports that those deleted file claims were made after an FBI analysis of the Captain's home flight sim HD are indeed good enough for me.

I haven't seen trustworthy reports claiming that the files were deleted - only that they didn't/couldn't find anything suspicious on the system.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 152):
Which members claimed that?

Read above.
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:28 pm

Lets get some things straight:
* The newspaper articles were based of a Telegraph one that cited vague "sources close to the investigation" and has never been followed up.
* The allegation, even if true, is that he practiced flying to a short runway on an island in the SIO. MH370 went down nowhere near an island in the SIO. In fact, the only point of agreement between this report and what actually happened is the words "Southern Indian Ocean" which is what scientists call "Quite Big".
* There were all sorts of reports in newspapers in the months following the disaster, in relation to sightings, the track of the plane, the lifestyle of the captain, and Mario Balotelli lookalikes, many of which have been discredited, refuted, or are mutually contradictory.

Please stop with this nonsense. Clearly the "Captain did it" has some things going for it - he was the last voice heard from the aircraft, and it's path after it went silent suggests an attempt to avoid detection/interception. But the factual report is quite clear: "The Captain’s ability to handle stress at work and home was good. There was no known history of apathy, anxiety, or irritability. There were no significant changes in his life style, interpersonal conflict or family stresses." The Germanwings crash is instructive in that it demonstrates the kind of trail a real suicidal pilot leaves - and it's a lot different than citing angsty poems or knives in the kitchen.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 5:45 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 155):
But the factual report is quite clear: "The Captain’s ability to handle stress at work and home was good. There was no known history of apathy, anxiety, or irritability. There were no significant changes in his life style, interpersonal conflict or family stresses."

That does not rule out the Captain. Not at all. Not even close...

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 155):
The Germanwings crash is instructive in that it demonstrates the kind of trail a real suicidal pilot leaves - and it's a lot different than citing angsty poems or knives in the kitchen.

Suicidal pilot? As in, pilot suicide?

If you think the MH370 'Captain did it' theorists are calling MH370 pilot suicide then you have not been paying attention and you don't understand the complexity of what some have been suggesting.

I don't think that anybody has claimed that MH370 was as simple as a straight out pilot suicide. Suicide was clearly not the objective if the Captain did it because of the flight duration after it first went silent.

Also, just because the Germanwings FO might have been sloppy and left behind a trail evidence -(or whatever the word / semantic police want to call the 'clues')- that allowed pilot suicide due to depression being determined as the most likely probably cause doesn't mean that everybody who is going to do something that stupid would leave behind as many clues that could point to their guilt.
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:45 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
I don't think that anybody has claimed that MH370 was as simple as a straight out pilot suicide. Suicide was clearly not the objective if the Captain did it because of the flight duration after it first went silent.

https://leb.fbi.gov/2011/july/perspective-violent-true-believers
 
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BaconButty
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:00 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
That does not rule out the Captain. Not at all. Not even close...

Are you struggling with this? I never said it rules him out - just that I do not believe there is any credible evidence that he was predisposed to engage in the suicide/murder of the passengers of MH370. Doesn't mean he didn't do it - that's a straw man that the likes of you put up to polarise the argument. And frankly, misrepresenting other peoples points of view is liable to cause offence.

Obviously, I was particularly referring to the fact that somebody would have to be extremely thick to connect him having practiced approaches to Island runways with him having allegedly flown the aircraft to nowhere near one. Yet here we are.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
Suicidal pilot? As in, pilot suicide?

If you think the MH370 'Captain did it' theorists are calling MH370 pilot suicide then you have not been paying attention and you don't understand the complexity of what some have been suggesting.

If it involved deliberate actions leading to his own death then it was suicide. Even the FBI document tweedle-dum linked above (presumably in your support) says so:
"Violence, their method of change, will include homicide, suicide, or both."
"Suicide accompanied by mass killings of civilians represents one method by which VTBs further their political, religious, or social goals; but, suicide is not necessary to fit the definition of a VTB."
So give the silly semantic games a rest.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
Also, just because the Germanwings FO might have been sloppy and left behind a trail evidence -(or whatever the word / semantic police want to call the 'clues')- that allowed pilot suicide due to depression being determined as the most likely probably cause doesn't mean that everybody who is going to do something that stupid would leave behind as many clues that could point to their guilt.

Of course, absence of evidence and all that, but I'd still like to see some affirmative evidence that Zaharie was inclined toward the murder suicide. And this thread has been going for longer than Bryan Adams was at number one with that infernal Robin Hood song, with nothing so far. I'd even like to have an explanation of how making an aircraft disappear off the map would have furthered his "political, religious, or social goals" but still nothing.
Down with that sort of thing!
 
abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 1:37 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 155):
he Germanwings crash is instructive in that it demonstrates the kind of trail a real suicidal pilot leaves - and it's a lot different than citing angsty poems or knives in the kitchen.

Indeed so!

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
That does not rule out the Captain. Not at all. Not even close...

I'd never said that the captain did't do it. Only that there are few - if any - hard evidence pointing in that direction. We even have certain evidence explained by Mandala499 that might well be interpreted against such theory. The best we have is some very circumstantial evidence that - perhaps - could be interpreted as if the cause of event were deliberate. As it stands now the "pilot did it theory" has no strong evidence backing it up.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
Of course, absence of evidence and all that, but I'd still like to see some affirmative evidence that Zaharie was inclined toward the murder suicide.

So do I. And this simple fact is perhaps the strongest evidence we have that if the MH370 was indeed crashed deliberately, it was most likely not done by any of the two in the cockpit.
 
FltAdmiralRitt
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:02 pm

You will not know the fate of B772 for certain, until the wreckage is found. All you can assign is
probabilities.


90% pilot induced crash,

8% state actors (only agents with the resources and technical know how to gain control and hide evidence) motivation is unknown but there are interesting possibilities.

2% Improbable sequence of events, causing AC critical systems to malfunction and partial pilot incapacitation.

Doesn't anyone remember AF447, no one guessed the cause of THAT one. and all I got right
was that the chief pilot was not in either seat which contributed to the crash.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:14 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 160):
Doesn't anyone remember AF447, no one guessed the cause of THAT one.

Actually, a few of the most knowledgable guys here did guess the cause of AF447 with an uncanny accuracy. Sadly, they have been pushed out of these threads by the fanaticism of some. Only mandala resists valiantly.
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abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 160):
90% pilot induced crash

On what objective basis do you assign such numbers? To me it looks like utterly nonsense.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 161):
Actually, a few of the most knowledgable guys here did guess the cause of AF447 with an uncanny accuracy. Sadly, they have been pushed out of these threads by the fanaticism of some. Only mandala resists valiantly.

So very true - and they were up to something quite interesting when the "the pilot did it" mob pushed them out. The majority - if not all of them - being rather unenlightened people when it comes to airplanes and their design (and I include myself gladly in this later category).... What a shame it was.
 
Kaiarahi
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:54 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 161):
a few of the most knowledgable guys here did guess the cause of AF447 with an uncanny accuracy

Not guesswork. Solid technical analysis. Mandala499's spreadsheets correlating the DFDR and CVR were awesome. As was Pihero's knowledge of the aircraft and AF procedures.

In the early MH370 threads, there was detailed technical discussion of the aircraft systems and how they may have failed or been manipulated by a malevolent pilot. The knowledgeable contributors (with the occasional exception of mandala499, who is regularly abused by one poster) have left. That discussion continues on other forums. The only reason mandala499 and some others bother with this forum is to disabuse lazy journalists who retail the crap on here as coming from aviation professionals.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 163):
Not guesswork. Solid technical analysis.

You're right. Poor wording from my side.
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David L
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Tue Jun 30, 2015 10:41 pm

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
Even the FBI document tweedle-dum linked above (presumably in your support) says so:

  

It also says...

"They are convinced that their truth is absolute and that no acceptable alternatives exist"

Hmm... that sounds familiar...
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:58 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
that's a straw man that the likes of you put up to polarise the argument.

About what I expected.

If I had a dollar for every time I was attacked by the straw man or had a specific argument misrepresented in the MH370 threads I'd be a rich man!

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
And frankly, misrepresenting other peoples points of view is liable to cause offence.

It sure is.

Quoting abba (Reply 159):
Only that there are few - if any - hard evidence pointing in that direction.

And what direction has more "hard evidence", to use your words, pointing towards it?

Quoting abba (Reply 159):
As it stands now the "pilot did it theory" has no strong evidence backing it up.

What scenario does?

What is the most probable scenario to you - the one with the most "strong evidence", to use your words, backing it up?

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 160):
All you can assign isprobabilities. 90% pilot induced crash,

That is a probability higher than the one I assigned to that scenario! Yikes!

You will get flamed by those who can't even provide a more probable sounding scenario for even posting that...

Oh, wait...:

Quoting abba (Reply 162):
On what objective basis do you assign such numbers? To me it looks like utterly nonsense.

So somebody posts their own probabilities and because you obviously disagree with then, you want an explanation of how they got to those numbers and end by calling such a suggestion "utterly nonsense".

How classy  
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:01 am

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
Even the FBI document tweedle-dum linked above (presumably in your support) says so:

Talk about the straw man and making personal attacks...
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:03 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 161):
Actually, a few of the most knowledgable guys here did guess the cause of AF447 with an uncanny accuracy. Sadly, they have been pushed out of these threads by the fanaticism of some. Only mandala resists valiantly.

Sadly I agree, and I think the best way is to stay open to possibilities because reality sometimes surprises us in very ugly ways, and the least posible scenarios are sometimes proven right. Then again history shows us that some people like to fill the gaps asap and condemn those who can't defend themselves.

Quoting abba (Reply 162):
On what objective basis do you assign such numbers? To me it looks like utterly nonsense.

Anyone on that Aircraft could have done it, why the crew, maybe some wacko entered the cabin and did it.... the point here is that there are thousands of different possibilities, and sometimes closure gives us to wrong conclusions and placing the blame on the weakest link (apparently).

TRB
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:13 am

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 168):
I think the best way is to stay open to possibilities because reality sometimes surprises us in very ugly ways, and the least posible scenarios are sometimes proven right.

  

I agree 100%

I have always said that I would not be surprised one bit if even the most unlikely of possible scenarios happened to MH370.

I don't care if what I think is most probable IMHO actually happened or not - I just want to know what happened - I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again.

I think we all want to know what happened, especially for the family and friends of those lost.

What has happened here is so unprecedented and unacceptable that nothing would really surprise me one bit which is why I have not ruled out many scenarios.

I just hope the plane is found and that everybody can get the answers they want or need.
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redflyer
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 161):
Actually, a few of the most knowledgable guys here did guess the cause of AF447 with an uncanny accuracy. Sadly, they have been pushed out of these threads by the fanaticism of some. Only mandala resists valiantly.

The only reason they were able to "guess" the cause of AF447 was because there was a lot more information available in the immediate aftermath of the crash. I seem to recall the aircraft was sending out a number of technical notices while it stalled its way down, some of which were contradictory and which would allow an expert to draw a narrow set of conclusions from them.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 156):
Also, just because the Germanwings FO might have been sloppy and left behind a trail evidence -(or whatever the word / semantic police want to call the 'clues')- that allowed pilot suicide due to depression being determined as the most likely probably cause doesn't mean that everybody who is going to do something that stupid would leave behind as many clues that could point to their guilt.

The Germanwings FO was not sloppy. The CVR and FDR were recovered (in that order) which allowed investigators to quickly determine that the FO deliberately crashed the plane.

But that brings up a question: let's say, for the sake of argument, that the CVR and FDR on the Germanwings flight were never recovered. Would investigators be able to ascertain if it was a crash caused by pilot suicide? I think they would be able to say that the flight may have crashed because of pilot suicide. But how many people out there would propound other plausible scenarios, such as a technical malfunction? Remember, this is only a hypothetical situation.

[Edited 2015-06-30 20:26:19]
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting redflyer (Reply 170):
let's say, for the sake of argument, that the CVR and FDR on the Germanwings flight were never recovered. Would investigators be able to ascertain if it was a crash caused by pilot suicide?

I asked a similar question in reply 114:

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 114):
I wonder how confident people would have been that GermanWings was pilot suicide if the CVR & FDR data was useless?

Various posts between reply 109 and reply 129 discuss that.
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:03 am

Quoting theredbaron (Reply 168):
Anyone on that Aircraft could have done it, why the crew, maybe some wacko entered the cabin and did it.... the point here is that there are thousands of different possibilities, and sometimes closure gives us to wrong conclusions and placing the blame on the weakest link (apparently).

Anyone huh? Some wacko that could fly the 777, intimately knew the regional FIR's and radar and diverted at the exact moment of hand-off. Oh, and also was well versed in the 777 avionics and electrical systems, and managed to commandeer the a/c while also slipping under the scrutiny (post incident) of intelligence agencies around the world. LOL.

Yep, in your world there certainly are thousands of possibilities...aliens, mangosteens, pedestal fires etc. LMAO.

This is truly hilarious.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting David L (Reply 165):
"They are convinced that their truth is absolute and that no acceptable alternatives exist"

Hmm... that sounds familiar...

You are welcome to put forward an acceptable alternative. I have yet to come across one other than Zaharie intentionally diverting the a/c, killing himself and 238 pax.

Good luck coming up with something that marries the facts. I hope you do, I really do.

Quoting BaconButty (Reply 158):
And frankly, misrepresenting other peoples points of view is liable to cause offence.

You must be referring to your own conflation of the suicide semantic issue. FYI, there is something recognized professionally with the nomenclature HOMICIDE-SUICIDE. There is also a term that is widely used to describe some acts of multiple homicide: MASS MURDER.

No one is saying Zaharie did not commit suicide, but to frame it as ONLY suicide is incorrect in every manner.
 
abba
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:33 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 166):
And what direction has more "hard evidence", to use your words, pointing towards it?

In this case none, really. And THIS IS THE VERY POINT WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND.

However, there are several things that actually weakens - not exclude - "the pilot did it" theory. If the pilot did it I would have expected the investigators to find at least something on ground pointing in this direction. This has not been the case (and I exclude the pseudo scientific (and deeply racist) theories concerning mental illness that apparently appears only in Malay and Indonesian people, which some people around here have cherished).

So in answering your questions from reply 114 (and RedFlyer in 170). In the case of GermanWings we do by now have quite a significant amount of evidence that point in the direction of pilot suicide. We have history of mental illness, we have got medical reports torn apart in the pilot's apartment and so on and so forth. The list is very, very long! Non of this, of cause, proves conclusively that the pilot did it as we do not have - say - a latter left behind by the pilot explaining the reason for his cause of action. But it all points in this direction.

We have nothing like this in the case of Z - or any other on board MH370 for that matter who could have conceivably caused the chain of events deliberately.

Again. This does not conclusively prove that the pilot didn't do it. It weakens the theory considerably, nevertheless.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 166):
What scenario does?

If you look at statistics the most common causes for crashes has to do with the interaction between man and machine that somehow goes wrong. Few crashes were inevitable. Often they transpires because of a number of coincidences. AF447 - and most other fatal crashes - illustrates that.

As it stands now, this remain to me the most likely scenario (for no other reason than this is the most common) even if pure technical or pure deliberate action by the pilot or any other for that matter certainly cannot be excluded.
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:56 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 173):
I have yet to come across one other than Zaharie intentionally diverting the a/c, killing himself and 238 pax.

And yet many other options have been put forward and discussed right here. I guess you weren't listening...
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:39 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 175):
And yet many other options have been put forward and discussed right here. I guess you weren't listening...

They have all proven (the non-deliberate scenarios) to be nil impossible given the behavior of the a/c, comms, avionics etc.

I suppose you could say that a cadre of well trained terrorists or some state actor sans motive could have pulled this off, but this is as unlikely as the technical malfunction scenario given the facts on hand. More simply put, it did not happen.

The NOK deserve to know the truth. That you are uncomfortable with the overwhelming likelihood that Zaharie perpetrated this crime/murder is your problem (and the others such as tweedle dee).

It is abundantly clear that a group of people here simply don't care for the inescapable conclusion that Captain Shah was the party responsible for this atrocity. That they care more about protecting the industry or pilots or whatever their respective agendas may be is dismaying to say the least.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:51 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 176):
They have all proven (the non-deliberate scenarios) to be nil impossible given the behavior of the a/c, comms, avionics etc.

I suppose you could say that a cadre of well trained terrorists or some state actor sans motive could have pulled this off, but this is as unlikely as the technical malfunction scenario given the facts on hand. More simply put, it did not happen.

The NOK deserve to know the truth. That you are uncomfortable with the overwhelming likelihood that Zaharie perpetrated this crime/murder is your problem (and the others such as tweedle dee).

It is abundantly clear that a group of people here simply don't care for the inescapable conclusion that Captain Shah was the party responsible for this atrocity. That they care more about protecting the industry or pilots or whatever their respective agendas may be is dismaying to say the least.

Oxymorph,

The only thing you have proven is that you can irritate people.

There is only some possible circumstantial evidence to support your position, and there is only a sliver of evidence for any competing theory to yours. Your guess is only as good as everyone else's guess, so please tone down the rhetoric.

The only correct answer to what happened to the plane is "We don't know".
 
UALWN
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 176):
They have all proven (the non-deliberate scenarios) to be nil impossible given the behavior of the a/c, comms, avionics etc.

No they have not.

Of course, the "the pilot did" hypothesis cannot possibly be debunked, just like the putative existence of God cannot: any scenario can be fit with an almighty pilot intended on crime and deceit. He turned left? He wanted to go left. He turned right first? He wanted to confuse us by turning first right then left. He had practiced landing on tiny islands in the sim and then he did not land in any island? I guess he tried to deceive us too. He switched the transmissions off, then on, then off? Errr, whatever, he must have had some obscure reasons for that too. He had never looked suicidal nor deranged in the least? He must have been a great actor. And on and on and on. This is intellectually lazy. Just like invoking God for things we don't understand.

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 176):
That you are uncomfortable with the overwhelming likelihood that Zaharie perpetrated this crime/murder is your problem

There is no overwhelming likelihood. Only, maybe, in your mind. There is no evidence, no motive, no nothing.

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 176):
It is abundantly clear that a group of people here simply don't care for the inescapable conclusion that Captain Shah was the party responsible for this atrocity

It is very far from an inescapable conclusion. The sad thing is that you must know this just as well as the rest of us, but, for some reason I don't understand, you like to repeat your mantra, and in the process, insult the memory and the relatives of somebody who should be presumed innocent until proven (not guessed) otherwise.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:54 pm

Last time I checked MH17 had two capable well trained pilots without any known history of mental illness in the cockpit. If the "pilot did it" theory is true we still have no clear evidence whatsoever to blame solely either one of them, both definitely could have flown the aircraft to Southern Indian Ocean. So why all the concentration on the captain?
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:18 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 179):
Last time I checked MH17 had two capable well trained pilots without
any known history of mental illness in the cockpit. If the "pilot did it" theory is true we still
have no clear evidence whatsoever to blame solely either one of them, both definitely could
have flown the aircraft to Southern Indian Ocean

Well MH 370 not '17. The latter one was the one that was shot down in Ukraine.  
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 3:43 pm

No sorry no one guessed what the primary reason for the Crash of AF447.

Yes, they said the pitot tubes failing was a contributing factor, which caused pilot confusion.

No One guessed, The Pilot Bonin, continuously used the stick to maintain a high angle of attack
( resulting in a continuos stall.) and told no ONE, till it was too late. I don't think anyone GUESSED THAT.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 5:36 pm

Quoting pvjin (Reply 179):
Last time I checked MH17 had two capable well trained pilots without any known history of mental illness in the cockpit. If the "pilot did it" theory is true we still have no clear evidence whatsoever to blame solely either one of them, both definitely could have flown the aircraft to Southern Indian Ocean. So why all the concentration on the captain?

There are many, more "in tune" with the business than some speculators on here, who have harboured similar thoughts over a drink or two in the local bar.

For a mystery of such gargantuan proportion, it is simply too simple, and too lazy, to constantly beat on the drum the conclusion that "THE CAPTAIN DID IT YOU FOOLS!!"

There does remain the question regarding the absolute credibility of the cargo manifest. There does remain the credibility of the passenger manifest, the strange passports, the reports that high category personal were on board but nor listed on the manifest. Previous occurrences have been verified whereby ordinary flying passengers have been permitted on the flight deck of MH aircraft; what's to say someone belonging to another agency didn't charm their way on to the flight deck to activate a nefarious act to neutralise a threat regarding the cargo heading to China, or hostile hands..?

Really, there are SO many other options in addition to the most basic and simple "The Captain did it."

The focus on that one possibility is bordering on the obsessive.

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SoJo
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:47 pm

Why is this thread still going? No news, no new info. Yet for the most part the same people spewling the same old duff over and over. There are maybe two or three on here that contribute daily. One, (I feel) is replying to boost his post count (which is really ridiculous given his time here). You state you want to know what happened.... You won't..... This thread, like the aircraft, should just disappear until something positive happens. Get a life please.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 171):
I asked a similar question in reply 114:

And so you did. Apologies if it appeared I plagiarized your thoughts - after several thousand posts it's quite hard to keep track of everything that's been stated or asked.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 115):
Had GermanWings had the CVR and FDR destroyed, other data such as ADS-B data shows a flight path that puts "deliberate action" as an extremely likely suspect, as it is consistent with putting the aircraft in an open descent at high speed... and this was mentioned before they even retrieved the black boxes.

With sincere respect, I would say that while some people might say the crash was the result of a deliberate action, there would be plenty of others that would say a possible set of circumstances could have caused the crash of the Gemanwings plane if the CVR and FDR were never recovered. In fact, I would think that quite a number of pilots would rush to defend the pilots of the Germanwings flight. Frankly, the Germanwings crash was a far less complex crash. The plane began an abrupt decent from cruise without any course deviation and slammed into the mountains. How many people would think something incapacitated the pilots with the result that something caused the plane to nose over? The MH370 disappearance required a far more complex series of events to occur for the plane to end up in the SIO.
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:52 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 173):
No one is saying Zaharie did not commit suicide, but to frame it as ONLY suicide is incorrect in every manner.

  

Quoting abba (Reply 174):
So in answering your questions from reply 114 (and RedFlyer in 170).

You previously did, see below - But thank you for further comment on the question  
Quoting abba (Reply 134):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 114):I wonder how confident people would have been that GermanWings was pilot suicide if the CVR & FDR data was useless? Hindsight is a wonderful thing, especially when you have all the evidence you need which is almost everything with GermanWings but, sadly, pretty much nothing with MH370.

The case would have been much stronger - even if not abosolutely conclusive.

Again, thank you for further elaborating your point of view on that matter.

Quoting abba (Reply 174):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 166):What scenario does?If you look at statistics the most common causes for crashes has to do with the interaction between man and machine that somehow goes wrong.

The problem with using the term 'common' is that it seems that there is nothing common about MH370.

Quoting pvjin (Reply 179):
Last time I checked MH17 had two capable well trained pilots without any known history of mental illness in the cockpit.

I have no doubt they were both capable pilots, but remember it was the FO's first 777 flight without a supervisor / check-pilot.

That might have played a role if something disabled the Captain and the FO had to rely upon his limited experience in the 777 to get out of an emergency situation.

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 181):
No One guessed, The Pilot Bonin, continuously used the stick to maintain a high angle of attack( resulting in a continuos stall.) and told no ONE, till it was too late. I don't think anyone GUESSED THAT.

  

Quoting BlueShamu330s (Reply 182):
what's to say someone belonging to another agency didn't charm their way on to the flight deck to activate a nefarious act to neutralise a threat regarding the cargo heading to China, or hostile hands..?

What I have always considered is that that Captain was intentionally placed on that flight (remember he was called in to work that flight - it was supposed to be a day off) knowing that some dirt could be found on him (the Anwar connection, political views, the guilty verdict hours earlier, the FB rants, etc.) in order to shift attention away from something much more sinister that happened - like others have suggested.

Think about it, if it was another Captain there might be nothing, no conjecture, no clues at all, to suggest that the captain might have done it.

I just haven't ruled out the idea that somebody intentionally wanted Z called up to be on that specific flight - somebody that was in on whatever happened.

Quoting SoJo (Reply 183):
Why is this thread still going? No news, no new info. Yet for the most part the same people spewling the same old duff over and over. There are maybe two or three on here that contribute daily. One, (I feel) is replying to boost his post count (which is really ridiculous given his time here). You state you want to know what happened.... You won't..... This thread, like the aircraft, should just disappear until something positive happens. Get a life please.

Why do you keep posting the same comment / question in every thread, especially if you want the thread to die?

Oh the irony!

Quoting redflyer (Reply 184):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 171):I asked a similar question in reply 114:And so you did. Apologies if it appeared I plagiarized your thoughts - after several thousand posts it's quite hard to keep track of everything that's been stated or asked.

I was just pointing out where you could find answers to the question you asked, especially since the answers were in this very thread, just roughly fifty posts ago  
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:19 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 185):
What I have always considered is that that Captain was intentionally placed on that flight (remember he was called in to work that flight - it was supposed to be a day off) knowing that some dirt could be found on him (the Anwar connection, political views, the guilty verdict hours earlier, the FB rants, etc.) in order to shift attention away from something much more sinister that happened - like others have suggested.

1) I'm not sure about the accuracy of him being called in that night. It is not mentioned in the report (as far as I know), and he had been flying regularly (routinely according to the report) up until March 8th. That said, I do also remember hearing this. ?

2) Any scenario framing Zaharie would appear to me to be riddled with risk. And the reward??? The ratio of the two in this hypothetical couldn't be more incongruous. 'They' would also be risking the eyes of foreign intelligence services the world over.

This would be the most inane and dumb stunt imaginable.

Do you have a scenario where the above would not be true? Serious question.
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:35 am

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 181):
Yes, they said the pitot tubes failing was a contributing factor, which caused pilot confusion.

They said much more than that. For instance, that the plane stalled and pancaked into the ocean in a flattish attitude. That before the CVR and FDR were recovered.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:39 am

Quoting redflyer (Reply 184):
How many people would think something incapacitated the pilots with the result that something caused the plane to nose over?

Nobody half way knowledgable: if the pilots had been incapacitated, the plane would have continued flying straight, along the programed route. See the Helios and Payne Steward accidents. Plus, the medical history of the co-pilot would have immediately tipped the hand towards suicide. Alas, no such history of mental trouble for MH370's captain.
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:50 am

Quoting SoJo (Reply 183):
Why is this thread still going? No news, no new info. Yet for the most part the same people spewling the same old duff over and over. There are maybe two or three on here that contribute daily. One, (I feel) is replying to boost his post count (which is really ridiculous given his time here). You state you want to know what happened.... You won't..... This thread, like the aircraft, should just disappear until something positive happens. Get a life please.

Some days ago I had already drafted the post below but just saved the draft and did not push the "submit" buttom.

---------------------

Quoting StuckinCMHland (Reply 177):
The only correct answer to what happened to the plane is "We don't know".

And that's why I - and I think I am not alone - find it so annoying that this thread pops up at the top of the forum several times a day although there is actually nothing new to report about...

---------------------

Maybe one option would be to start a separate thread for all these theories and to concentrate in the Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - threads on real facts ... once there will be new facts...
 
mandala499
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:32 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 161):
Only mandala resists valiantly.

There comes a point where one says, "screw it!"
Being attacked personally in and out of the forum by those "who can't handle an alternative to their own theory" is disgusting.

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 163):
In the early MH370 threads, there was detailed technical discussion of the aircraft systems and how they may have failed or been manipulated by a malevolent pilot.

Which was unfortunately shouted out as obfuscation and stonewalled by those who think that only the "pilot did it" is acceptable for discussion, and they committed obfuscation themselves, and stonewalled others.

Work and discussion on alternative theories (including some very technical ones) are being continued outside by a bunch of open skeptics and professionals, where we can discuss and criticize each other without being shouted out.

The work on how a mistranslation of the BFO could happen, which requires either a damn high-tech conspiracy, or simply, a technical fault (eg: IRU realignment in-flight)...

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 172):
Anyone huh?

You think the FO is incapable of pulling such a stunt? He's type rated, he knows the local FIRs...
To say otherwise, is a farce. But feel free to say that despite the FO being equally capable, the Captain is more likely to have done it than the FO.

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 176):
They have all proven (the non-deliberate scenarios) to be nil impossible given the behavior of the a/c, comms, avionics etc.

Sorry... excuse myself away from the keyboard while I release my desire to laugh.
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redflyer
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 1:30 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 188):
Nobody half way knowledgable: if the pilots had been incapacitated, the plane would have continued flying straight, along the programed route. See the Helios and Payne Steward accidents. Plus, the medical history of the co-pilot would have immediately tipped the hand towards suicide. Alas, no such history of mental trouble for MH370's captain.

Respectfully, I disagree. We have professionals claiming that an extremely - EXTREMELY - unlikely and unusual set of circumstances could have made MH370 do what it did to end up in the SIO, 7 hours and thousands of kilometers after dropping off of radar and flying multiple segments. Yet a simple drop in altitude while maintaining course for the Germanwings plane would have resulted in half-way knowledgeable people immediately concluding pilot suicide?
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 178):
This is intellectually lazy.

Indeed so!

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 185):
The problem with using the term 'common' is that it seems that there is nothing common about MH370.

There you have a point. However, "unusual" can be rightly attributed to many - if not most -fatal crashes.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 188):
Alas, no such history of mental trouble for MH370's captain.

or anything similar.

Quoting redflyer (Reply 191):
Respectfully, I disagree. We have professionals claiming that an extremely - EXTREMELY - unlikely and unusual set of circumstances could have made MH370 do what it did to end up in the SIO, 7 hours and thousands of kilometers after dropping off of radar and flying multiple segments. Yet a simple drop in altitude while maintaining course for the Germanwings plane would have resulted in half-way knowledgeable people immediately concluding pilot suicide?

What makes modern airlines crash is usually an extremely - EXTREMELY - unlikely and unusual set of circumstances...
 
SoJo
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 3:03 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 185):
Why do you keep posting the same comment / question in every thread, especially if you want the thread to die?

Oh the irony!

So why do you keep posting the same old stuff? Just to keep this thread going? Or would your life be empty without it. Go outside and join the real world. You nor any of the other posters know anything new. So why keep on about what each other thinks. As I've said before, when something NEW comes along by all means talk about it. Until then, this whole incident on the missing plane is just a bitch fest for the most part.
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BaconButty
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 191):
Yet a simple drop in altitude while maintaining course for the Germanwings plane would have resulted in half-way knowledgeable people immediately concluding pilot suicide?

For my sins, I've re-read parts 1-6 of the Germanwings thread, and I am sure that the uniform rate of descent and constant heading, coupled with the evidence of Lubitz state of mind that later came to light would have led people to that conclusion. I think that, while the early favored opinion seemed to be crew incapacitation, the more knowledgeable posters seemed reluctant to concur (suspecting that the target altitude would have been dialed into the autopilot), and if you have a look at part 4 nobody shouts down the suggestions of pilot suicide. Also, the fact that descent began just after reaching cruise (i.e. when a "comfort break" might be likely) was noted.

Of course, the fact is that the NYT leaked CVR* info prior to Lubitz medical history made public, so we can only speculate how the forum would have reacted had the CVR/FDR data been unrecoverable, but it's telling how quickly the mood changes with the still-unconfirmed NYT leak:
Germanwings A320 Crashed Enroute BCN-DUS - Part 6 (by bnatraveler Mar 25 2015 in Civil Aviation)#87

* the fact that the pilot was locked out of the cockpit
Down with that sort of thing!
 
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 187):
They said much more than that. For instance, that the plane stalled and pancaked into the ocean in a flattish attitude. That before the CVR and FDR were recovered.

Sure, some experts closer than the general statement on AF447 crashed because of instrument failure and subsequent
pilot confusion.

But those same experts would have SHOUTED you down for suggesting, that a pilot would deliberately pull the
stick up and keep it there in a stall situation. Because you can indict the aircraft before the evidence is gathered
but god help you if you attack a pilot. These experts we laud ARE pilots in most cases. So you must recalibrate what
they say to bring it away from a skewed views, though to be fair they don't skew much.
 
Pihero
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting redflyer (Reply 191):
We have professionals claiming that an extremely - EXTREMELY - unlikely and unusual set of circumstances could have made MH370 do what it did to end up in the SIO, 7 hours and thousands of kilometers after dropping off of radar and flying multiple segments.

Care to summarize those claims ?

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 195):
Sure, some experts closer than the general statement on AF447 crashed because of instrument failure and subsequent pilot confusion.

Isn't that an exact short summary of that accident ?

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 195):
t those same experts would have SHOUTED you down for suggesting, that a pilot would deliberately pull the stick up and keep it there in a stall situation

1/- Pull the stick up is an impossibility, in any aircraft I know... Back is the more likely action
2/- Prove that the pilot kept the stick there... It requires some reading, I warn you.
3/- I have never shouted anybody down on this forum... but some do not like sarcasm... generally have a thinner skin than the people they insult and whose memory they don't fear covering with mud...which is, in any measure a very despicable attitude.
That's one of the reasons we left this very thread.

The second is that, for the majority of these posters, any technical explanation was out of question : the T7 was conceived and built by God himself, hence totally safe... Only a dastardly human intervention could have provoked the accident.

The final reason is that the immense majority of the posters don't give a hoot about the accident and improving safety : This thread has seen probably 20 000 posts... How many after any accident report has been published.
Posting here is just an ego trip, and I repeat, with some really despicable attitudes.

The professionals on this site have a sterling record on accident discussions : just by memory, the GF A320 in Bahrain, the Kenyan 737 in Beirut, the XL 320 off Corsica, SW 11 off Canadian coast, the Bagram 747... and countless others.
On the AF447 case, just looking at a screenshot from a press conference, this team had quickly found the very probable initial cause : iced pitots. From the released flight plan and with the knowledge of the takeoff time, we surmised the captain's absence from the flight deck... from pictures of the recovered galleys, we deduced the probable attitude at impact... in the mean time, we managed to dismiss in-flight break up and passengers plummeting to their deaths in the night sky... We are not part of the investigation teams, we are not the AAIB, the NTSB or the BEA, but we helped the community have a better understanding of what happens in a cockpit when chips are down... and most of us have refused to accept money from the media for an interview ( the case for Mandala499 is different : he is a figure in his country )... so I for one feel very comfortable in my opinions.
Did we make errors ? Of course we did some times go into a tangent, but generally there is a voice of caution and reason to keep things and scenarii straight : To think that we are a monolithic block of opinionated professionals can't be farther from the actual situation.
The popular wisdom says that every man has an opinion... and an ar** hole.

Regards.
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KarlB737
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:45 pm

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 18):
Refreshing to see some fresh opinions on this thread, and ones rooted in sound logic.

I for one believe that the possibility of this aircraft having landed on land as part of a plan is a little more realistic then some of the other suggestions that have been put forth. After all this time of searching the ocean how can more people not think of a planned land landing instead.
 
oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:33 am

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 197):
I for one believe that the possibility of this aircraft having landed on land as part of a plan is a little more realistic then some of the other suggestions that have been put forth. After all this time of searching the ocean how can more people not think of a planned land landing instead.

To what end? Where has the plane been for the past 15 months? What has become of the pax and crew in such a scenario? Why not a peep fron intel agencies?

To believe this is a possibility, one must also discard the Inmarsat data, or believe that they (Inmarsat) are involved in a multi-nation cover-up and have deliberately falsified the data at the behest of complicit parties.

Or that all parties relevant to the search and privy to the SAT data have come to erroneous conclusions despite now having 15+ months in which to further analyze and refine the data.

I do agree that their is a certain logic to your premise that works, and works well...and I wish it were so. But every indication is that Zaharie flew it purposely to the SIO.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 196):
The second is that, for the majority of these posters, any technical explanation was out of question : the T7 was conceived and built by God himself, hence totally safe... Only a dastardly human intervention could have provoked the accident.

Nothing could be further from the truth. In actuality, ALL technical explanations attempting to explain and account for the circumstances re: MH370, though very creative, informed and instructive, failed on many, many levels.

It's nigh impossible to wish (via technical 'accident' scenarios) away the deliberateness on display with this particular event. It is everywhere. Sadly, you and others were unwilling and unhelpful at every turn despite clearly (I would certainly hope) understanding that the nature of the event had all the hallmarks of a controlled and deliberate undertaking.

Given this, It is quite ironic that you suggest it is we who are not interested in either the accident or safety. We are interested in the truth, something that IMO you seem to whimsically disregard.

Hence, we see one another as despicable...le mot juste.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:37 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 186):
2) Any scenario framing Zaharie would appear to me to be riddled with risk. And the reward??? The ratio of the two in this hypothetical couldn't be more incongruous. 'They' would also be risking the eyes of foreign intelligence services the world over.This would be the most inane and dumb stunt imaginable. Do you have a scenario where the above would not be true? Serious question.

The scenario I link to the possibility that Z was intentionally put on that specific flight (set up - put there to divert attention away from the real cause) is any scenario in which the plane was taken for it cargo (or possibly the 20 tech pax).

If the plane was taken for its cargo it would require somebody within the airline (somebody who knew what would be in the cargo and who wanted it) to be in on it to play a role in organising everything - possibly including who would be in command.

*If* that is what happened, I would not rule out somebody in the airline in on it making sure a pilot who would attract attention would be on that flight.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 188):
Plus, the medical history of the co-pilot would have immediately tipped the hand towards suicide. Alas, no such history of mental trouble for MH370's captain.

No body is suggesting that MH370 was a simple pilot suicide because of a medical issue, such as depression.

Did the Egypt Air 990 relief pilot Gamil El Batouti have a medical history that suggested involvement? It was a different type of history around career ending events.

Did the Silk Air 185 Captain have a medical history that suggested his involvement? It was a different type of history around financial issues and past cockpit habits regarding turning off the CVR.

That the MH370 Captain, or both pilots for that matter, have no juicy medical history is irrelevant if one of them acted for a reason with no relevance to medical issues at all - such as a political reason.

Quoting mandala499 (Reply 190):
Being attacked personally in and out of the forum by those "who can't handle an alternative to their own theory" is disgusting.

  

Quoting redflyer (Reply 191):
Quoting UALWN (Reply 188):Nobody half way knowledgable: if the pilots had been incapacitated, the plane would have continued flying straight, along the programed route. See the Helios and Payne Steward accidents. Plus, the medical history of the co-pilot would have immediately tipped the hand towards suicide. Alas, no such history of mental trouble for MH370's captain.

Respectfully, I disagree. We have professionals claiming that an extremely - EXTREMELY - unlikely and unusual set of circumstances could have made MH370 do what it did to end up in the SIO, 7 hours and thousands of kilometers after dropping off of radar and flying multiple segments. Yet a simple drop in altitude while maintaining course for the Germanwings plane would have resulted in half-way knowledgeable people immediately concluding pilot suicide?

redflyer, I agree with you on this matter.

IMHO the medical history combined with the ADS-B data would not have been enough to conclude that the Germanwings FO did it intentionally.

That is another reason why I feel that a lack of medical history for the MH370 pilots is irrelevant, especially since nobody is suggesting that MH370 was the result of pilot suicide because of a medical issue anyway.

Quoting abba (Reply 192):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 185):The problem with using the term 'common' is that it seems that there is nothing common about MH370.There you have a point. However, "unusual" can be rightly attributed to many - if not most -fatal crashes.

That is true.

The Asiana 777 that crashed in SFO in perfect weather and VFR conditions is an example of an unusual type of crash IMHO.

Quoting SoJo (Reply 193):
So why do you keep posting the same old stuff? Just to keep this thread going? Or would your life be empty without it. Go outside and join the real world. You nor any of the other posters know anything new. So why keep on about what each other thinks. As I've said before, when something NEW comes along by all means talk about it. Until then, this whole incident on the missing plane is just a bitch fest for the most part.

Mate, if it really bothers you then just don't click on the thread. Simple, no?

Media attention to this incident has been on the decline and the average person is probably forgetting about MH370.

I fell that MH370 is far too important to let drift into the back of our minds.

New information or not, I feel that by talking about it in here and keeping this thread going it at least partly shows that some people still care and have as much interest in this unprecedented tragedy than they had from day one.

If you disagree then I understand that, but it is quite disgusting for you to imply that I am here to boost my post count.

Your cheap shots are just as bad as those of others.

Quoting FltAdmiralRitt (Reply 195):
But those same experts would have SHOUTED you down for suggesting, that a pilot would deliberately pull the stick up and keep it there in a stall situation.

Valid point.

Quoting Pihero (Reply 196):
the T7 was conceived and built by God himself, hence totally safe...

Not totally safe, but safer than many other types out there.

If it was totally safe then the Asiana 777 pilots would not have been allowed to botch a landing into SFO in perfect weather and VFR conditions  

BTW - I know you were being sarcastic  
Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 197):
I for one believe that the possibility of this aircraft having landed on land as part of a plan is a little more realistic then some of the other suggestions that have been put forth. After all this time of searching the ocean how can more people not think of a planned land landing instead.

Possible, but a lot of people have kept quite for a long time about it which is just as unprecedented as MH370 itself.

It would take quite a few people to pull off such a stunt, and no witnesses?
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oxymorph
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 199):
*If* that is what happened, I would not rule out somebody in the airline in on it making sure a pilot who would attract attention would be on that flight.

Nor I, as Zaharie would indeed be the PERFECT scapegoat. However, given what has unfolded over the past 15 months now, along with the timing issues, Z's voice, flight path etc...I think it's probably reasonable to rule these scenarios out. For a million reasons, I don't buy the cargo or Freescale stuff.

That's some pretty elaborate stuff.   
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Airlines B772 KUL-PEK Missing - Part 80

Fri Jul 03, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting oxymorph (Reply 200):
That's some pretty elaborate stuff.

Still less elaborate / complex than some of the 9/11 conspiracy theories    
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