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fxramper
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Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:46 pm

I'm sure this has happened previously, but this guy is trying to let everyone know it's possible to take control of a plane with your phone from your seat.

http://www.wired.com/2015/05/feds-sa...ned-researcher-commandeered-plane/
 
GSPSPOT
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:48 pm

Wouldn't you be quite conspicuous madly tapping on your phone on a plane in flight??
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B737900ER
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:54 pm

Exactly which systems are you going to take over? Since none of the flight control systems have outside network connections. Most people forget modern aircraft run on systems designed in the 80's

He talks about hacking in through the SEB, which technically speaking is the dumbest peice of electronic hardware on the airplane. It's like saying you hacked into you banks website through your tv remote. He also talks about gaining access to the TMU through the IFE. It's not physically possible. This guy sounds mentally ill

[Edited 2015-05-16 16:01:25]
 
smokeybandit
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:55 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Wouldn't you be quite conspicuous madly tapping on your phone on a plane in flight??

Not really. Plenty of games for mobile devices that require mad tapping to play.
 
Newark727
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:56 pm

Quoting GSPSPOT (Reply 1):
Wouldn't you be quite conspicuous madly tapping on your phone on a plane in flight??

If you're savvy enough to hack into an airplane with your phone, you're probably also savvy enough to write programs that don't require constantly tapping the screen.
 
smokeybandit
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 10:57 pm

Additionally, after reading the article, there's no evidence he did what he claimed he did.
 
flyDTW1992
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:00 pm

This whole thing just seems like nonsense to me, but maybe my understanding of aircraft computers is flawed.
Now you're flying smart
 
wjcandee
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:14 pm

There was a big thread on this already a few weeks ago. The consensus was that it was "absolutely impossible" to take over the plane from the bus that the seats connect to. I said that only an actual absence of connection between the two systems would guarantee a lack of hackability. It was explained to me that I was wrong, the connection was "one way", which seems a bit optimistic to me, but basically everyone was confident that this was totally, 100-percent impossible.

I guess the FBI isn't so sure. Read paragraph 18, particularly 18E, of the search warrant: http://www.wired.com/wp-content/uplo...Application-for-Search-Warrant.pdf
 
CO953
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:18 pm

I need to pop some popcorn and listen. This story first came up what, a couple months ago? The idea was roundly ridiculed here, strongly so. Reading the story, it still seems nebulous. It also seems like a critical, cutting-edge issue.

There are ways to protect everything in aviation and the redundancy is amazing. I also, from the time I heard that WiFi was going to become common on aircraft, was wondering if/when something exactly like this would become an issue. For this reason, being a neo-Luddite, I still seek out the oldest planes I can, e.g. a 752 or MD80 over a 738 or A321. It's just my personal quirky combination of neo-Luddism, nostalgia, and letting others be the guinea pigs when it comes to rapidly evolving computer technology in a world increasingly full of bad actors. Of course, I'm opening myself up for age-related mechanical issues, but I do have good confidence in the legacy carriers' maintenance programs. Choose your poison, y'know?
  

[Edited 2015-05-16 16:38:56]
 
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N62NA
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:28 pm

I don't remember the other thread a few months ago, but it seems very strange that the IFE system would be connected to the system that actually controls the flight systems. What reason for doing such an obviously dangerous thing would Boeing or Airbus allow such a thing to be done?
 
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fxramper
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:37 pm

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 2):
Exactly which systems are you going to take over? Since none of the flight control systems have outside network connections. Most people forget modern aircraft run on systems designed in the 80's

Did you read the article in full? This guy was browsing the entire flight system and said he's done it multiple times.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:40 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
It was explained to me that I was wrong, the connection was "one way", which seems a bit optimistic to me, but basically everyone was confident that this was totally, 100-percent impossible.

In such a connection, the end that is attached to the flight control systems cannot receive information. It is deaf and dumb. It can only transmit information.

It's as if you said that you used a portable radio to hack a radio station.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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CO953
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting N62NA (Reply 9):
What reason for doing such an obviously dangerous thing would Boeing or Airbus allow such a thing to be done?

One thought I have in response is that computer wireless tech has been accelerating so very, very rapidly in the last 5-7 years, that maybe the systems, when designed, did not anticipate vulnerabilities which now exist. I would hazard that the majority of planes flying today were not designed from the get-go to incorporate full passenger wireless access, though of course the newest models likely were.

Certainly, the pilots do have some degree of control over the WiFi and over the IFE. Maybe, somewhere in that ambit, there is some back-door connection. I mean, are the WiFi and IFE systems, TOTALLY isolated from all other flight systems?

Just my two cents - I'm no expert.... And this is a risky topic - don't want to broadcast ideas, either. I just hope that, behind the scenes, some very good people are gaming this scenario to death and staying way out ahead of the curve. And if a vulnerability exists - stomp on it with both feet and correct it immediately in good faith - regardless of any risk of liability for any previous incidents which may or may not have occurred....
 
wjcandee
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:47 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
It's as if you said that you used a portable radio to hack a radio station.

You have been the source of a great deal of wisdom for years here, Doc, and if that's the way it is, then that's the way it is. But if there's ANY way to make it listen, you know that those who do nothing all day but try to find ways to disrupt things will find a way...
 
CO953
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sat May 16, 2015 11:55 pm

I suppose that if a portable radio were tinkered with in just the right way, it could be used to jam or substitute a different signal to your neighbor's home stereo system, as you are much closer to your neighbor's house than is the radio station? Just riffing off your simile there, just to spark discussion....  Smile

[Edited 2015-05-16 16:59:55]
 
hivue
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 12:28 am

From the search warrant application:

"He stated that he thereby caused one of the airplane engines to climb..."

Now that WOULD be a neat trick.   The whole collection -- the supposed hacker, the FBI, Wired -- sounds pretty, shall we be charitable and say "imaginative," to me.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
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fxramper
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 12:31 am

Quoting hivue (Reply 16):

Google the guy, he's done is a lot and it's comical the FBI is just now catching up to this 'threat'. I think they hire specifically people that are good with computers. Guess they aren't hiring as of lately.

  
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:03 am

From the comments section of that Wired story:

Quote:
The FAA warned Boeing about this in a directive some time ago . It was a generic warning about having ANY access between the flight management/control systems and the entertainment computer.

"On August 21, 2012, The Boeing Company applied for a change to Type Certificate No. T00001SE Rev. 30 dated June 6, 2012 for installation of an onboard network system, associated line replaceable units (LRUs) and additional software functionality in the Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes. The Boeing Model 777-200 airplanes are long-range, wide-body, twin-engine jet airplanes with a maximum capacity of 440 passengers. The Boeing Model 777-300 and 777-300ER series airplanes have a maximum capacity of 550 passengers. The Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER series airplanes have fly-by-wire controls, software-configurable avionics, and fiber-optic avionics networks.

The proposed architecture is novel or unusual for commercial transport airplanes by enabling connection to previously isolated data networks connected to systems that perform functions required for the safe operation of the airplane. This proposed data network and design integration may result in security vulnerabilities from intentional or unintentional corruption of data and systems critical to the safety and maintenance of the airplane. The existing regulations and guidance material did not anticipate this type of system architecture or electronic access to aircraft systems. Furthermore, regulations and current system safety assessment policy and techniques do not address potential security vulnerabilities, which could be caused by unauthorized access to aircraft data buses and servers."

Anyone know more about this?
 
hivue
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:09 am

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 18):
From the comments section of that Wired story

What does that have to do with anything? The "incident" aircraft was a 738.
"You're sitting. In a chair. In the SKY!!" ~ Louis C.K.
 
N766UA
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:40 am

It says he "caused one of the airplane engines to climb" and caused the airplane to "fly sideways."

LOL shut the hell up.  Silly What a load of utterly meaningless crap. Does everyone believe everything written on the internet in paragraph form? Apparently this guy's the most amazing engineer ever because he can utterly defy the laws of aerodynamics with an iphone.

[Edited 2015-05-16 18:42:53]
 
MHO
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:00 am

The whole story strikes me as nuts. First of all, engines increase or decrease power or thrust, they don't "climb". regardless, if he caused asymmetrical thrust, wouldn't that cause one wing to go up, (the one with more thrust), the other to drop, and the aircraft to roll in a very big way? All the way to 90 degrees, nose down and crash?

Wouldn't the pilots notice a little thing like that, maybe even mentioning it to controllers, or to anyone after landing? Something just don't smell right here.
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flynhi808
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:24 am

Quoting CO953 (Reply 8):
I need to pop some popcorn and listen.

I would too, but unfortunately my supplies are diminished from all the ME3 vs. US3 stuff going on now...
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N62NA
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:25 am

I think one thing we need to understand, and maybe some of the mechanics / maintenance / technical people on here who actually work on these airplanes can help, is whether or not the IFE and WiFi in any way interfaces with the flight systems.
 
B737900ER
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:58 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):

They do not. Which is why the claims make absolutely no sense. But of course it's a threat, so the FBI has to investigate and spend millions of tax payer dollars just to prove the threat isn't a threat.

On the aircraft where he claims to have manipulated the TMU, it was on a simulation that he himself created. Not a real aircraft, so he could essentially make it do what ever he wanted since he designed the system, not Boeing.
 
N766UA
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:02 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 22):

Of course it bloody well doesn't! Is anything electronic vulnerable? Yes, absolutely, but you aren't flying my airplane through wifi... sorry.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:07 am

What a joke. It's sad that people will cop to crimes they couldn't even commit just to get 15 minutes of fame.

IFE systems (obviously) aren't connected to flight control systems. Even if they were, you'd need many hours once you were in to write code to command other systems. And I guarantee you can't do that on an iPhone on a short flight. This is of course assuming that he had familiarity with engine control systems (which is highly unlikely).

I bet this self proclaimed airline computer security mastermind couldn't even hack his home router. Even if he knew the password.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
Maverick623
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):
I said that only an actual absence of connection between the two systems would guarantee a lack of hackability. It was explained to me that I was wrong, the connection was "one way", which seems a bit optimistic to me, but basically everyone was confident that this was totally, 100-percent impossible.

To put it simply, he would need to physically remove several different components of both the seat back unit and the actual flight computer in order to make the changes necessary to send a signal back to the flight computers.

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 7):

I guess the FBI isn't so sure. Read paragraph 18, particularly 18E, of the search warrant

I assume you mean paragraph 19. It merely is a summary of what this dweeb is claiming to have done, not that the FBI necessarily believes him.

Quoting MHO (Reply 20):
Wouldn't the pilots notice a little thing like that, maybe even mentioning it to controllers, or to anyone after landing? Something just don't smell right here.

At the very least, it would cause the pilots to write it up in the maintenance logbook.



Oh, and the title to this thread is extremely misleading. There is zero evidence that this guy has done anything other than play a simulation using the IFE as his screen.
"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:28 am

Roberts is full of malarkey.
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Skydrol
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:08 am

All this high tech nonsense needed to hack into the audio entertainment system... and for what?

Keep it simple. Flush a dozen packs of Mentos down the toilet and the pressure buildup in the waste tank will cause it to blow, and take out the rest of the airplane with it.  




LD4
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26point2
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:36 am

Did you know the word "gullible" is not in the dictionary?

People here take this sort of BS so seriously to debate it?
 
MeCe
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:42 am

No, not possible for a 777. But I think quite possible access some systems on a 787. You can not turn the plane whereever you want but you may be able to to something.
 
SXDFC
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 5:34 am

Quoting N766UA (Reply 19):
he can utterly defy the laws of aerodynamics with an iphone.

I still have iOS 7 on my phone, does a 738 require iOS 8 or greater to fly?  
 
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TheRedBaron
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:10 am

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 31):
I still have iOS 7 on my phone, does a 738 require iOS 8 or greater to fly?  

iOS 8.3 is the version for the 738, it even allows you to change the seat pitch...   

TRB
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JetBuddy
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 7:06 am

It's funny how 90% of the comments here reflect that people haven't actually read the whole article. People seem to read the first few paragraphs, and then make up their mind. For example, he's not talking about his phone, he's been using his laptop. He's not supposidly gone directly from the IFE to the FMS, he's been via the Satcom which is connected to the IFE. The part about causing an engine to climb, is the understanding of an FBI agent.. which doesn't make sense. Roberts himself says he put the aircraft from Cruise to Climb mode. That would make more sense, except I don't think there's a Climb mode on an 738.. you've got Flight level change. Climb mode would be an Airbus.

Quoting MeCe (Reply 30):
No, not possible for a 777.

The FAA thinks it is. You should read reply 17.

But no, I don't think he actually had any control of the aircraft at any point. Could he read data? Yes probably.
 
G-CIVP
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 8:48 am

I really can't see how you could hack into an aircraft's systems as they aren't networked in the traditional sense and are effectively stand alone.

[Edited 2015-05-17 01:48:27]
 
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SuseJ772
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:47 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 13):
You have been the source of a great deal of wisdom for years here

This is a very true statement.

But...

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 11):
It's as if you said that you used a portable radio to hack a radio station.

You can't hack a radio station per se with a radio from Radio Shack, but you can turn a radio receiver into a transmitter and then from a localized area hack a radio frequency for a certain radius of feet.

I have the same issue with this thread that I do with the last thread. Nothing in an networked connection is truly one way. We write software and build certain safeguards in place to try and keep it one way. But the sheer nature of electrical signals passed over wire mean that by nature it is a two way connection.

This doesn't mean anyone has figured it out. It doesn't mean that anyone will be able to figure it out. But it does mean that it is at least capable to figure out.

Even the GAO says this is possible: http://www.cnn.com/2015/04/14/politi...er-aircraft-vulnerable-to-hacking/

While this guy sounds like a nut job, the theoretically possibility of something like this happening is possible, unless they are truly physical entities. And even then, the CIA figured out how to overcome that issue with Stuxnet: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuxnet

Quoting Newark727 (Reply 4):
If you're savvy enough to hack into an airplane with your phone, you're probably also savvy enough to write programs that don't require constantly tapping the screen.

This is also a very true statement.

[Edited 2015-05-17 06:57:59]
Currently at PIE, requesting FWA >> >>
 
1010101
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:58 pm

The vulnerability described in the Wired article had nothing to do with WiFi. He made a custom connector for a standard Ethernet cable that allowed him to plug in to LRU under the seat in front of him. He claims that he was able to watch network traffic allowing him to get figure out access to a non-critical cabin control system. He claims to have hopped from there to EICAS to a "thrust management system".

I don't know enough to judge the plausiblilty of these specific claims but I can say that the general approach is absolutely how real world security vulnerabilities are found and exploited. I am astounded that there is not an air gap between critical and non-critical systems. I have seen enough "impossible" hacks of systems with read only access, firewalls, etc, that any claims that a network connected system cannot be accessed are meaningless to me.
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:12 pm

Quoting 1010101 (Reply 36):
I am astounded that there is not an air gap between critical and non-critical systems.

There *is* an air gap between IFE and avionic systems. The EICAS bus doesn't run through the passenger cabin (for obvious reasons)

Quoting susej772 (Reply 35):
This doesn't mean anyone has figured it out. It doesn't mean that anyone will be able to figure it out. But it does mean that it is at least capable to figure out.

Not unless you get connected to the avionics. The IFE system is air gapped from mission critical systems. An air gap is about the best security you can have. If you can't access it, you can't hack it. (Yes, there was Stuxnet, but that still required getting access to the network via sneaker net.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_gap_%28networking%29
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baldwin8
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:14 pm

I see lot's of "He stated" mentioned in the article. Nothing about actually "It caused". Some one looking to make a name. As an airline aircraft mechanic myself. We would have heard a lot more about this if there was a bit more evidence of this. If over uncommanded inputs were evident it would be easy to see in the post flight reports.
 
1010101
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:26 pm

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 37):

There *is* an air gap between IFE and avionic systems. The EICAS bus doesn't run through the passenger cabin (for obvious reasons)

I'm not sure how to reconcile your statement and the following from the FAA.

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 17):
The proposed architecture is novel or unusual for commercial transport airplanes by enabling connection to previously isolated data networks connected to systems that perform functions required for the safe operation of the airplane.
 
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CALTECH
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:31 pm

Quoting baldwin8 (Reply 38):
I see lot's of "He stated" mentioned in the article. Nothing about actually "It caused". Some one looking to make a name. As an airline aircraft mechanic myself. We would have heard a lot more about this if there was a bit more evidence of this. If over uncommanded inputs were evident it would be easy to see in the post flight reports.

   This Roberts is a whack job trying to make a name for himself, and he succeeded in that. You can bet if anything he claims was true, which I find very hard to believe that he even hooked up to the IFE, there would be immediate Fleet Campaign Directives and Airworthiness Directives addressing this bogus issue. Have seen no Bulletins, ADs or FCDs stating anything a aircraft being flown sideways by a passenger and corrective action to prevent that from happening in the future. This loon Roberts, did bring attention to himself and his company. Sad if takes him as a expert on these matters though.
You are here.
 
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NYPECO
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:33 pm

Even if these claims are true, I highly doubt the plane flew sideways.

[Edited 2015-05-17 07:34:42]
 
Tod
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:47 pm

Quoting Skydrol (Reply 28):
Keep it simple. Flush a dozen packs of Mentos down the toilet and the pressure buildup in the waste tank will cause it to blow, and take out the rest of the airplane with it.

I can only image the brown foaming goo spewing out the overboard vent.

Might take a firm scrub brush to save the fuselage at that point  
 
RDUDDJI
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:48 pm

Quoting 1010101 (Reply 39):
I'm not sure how to reconcile your statement and the following from the FAA.

Try reading the whole quote.

You (conveniently) left out the qualifying part of the article. First of all, this was in regards to a PROPOSAL, not an actual system. Secondly, the "hacker" claimed he was on a 738 not a 777.

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 17):
"On August 21, 2012, The Boeing Company applied for a change to Type Certificate No. T00001SE Rev. 30 dated June 6, 2012 for installation of an onboard network system, associated line replaceable units (LRUs) and additional software functionality in the Boeing Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER Series Airplanes. The Boeing Model 777-200 airplanes are long-range, wide-body, twin-engine jet airplanes with a maximum capacity of 440 passengers. The Boeing Model 777-300 and 777-300ER series airplanes have a maximum capacity of 550 passengers. The Model 777-200, -300, and -300ER series airplanes have fly-by-wire controls, software-configurable avionics, and fiber-optic avionics networks.
Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
 
flightless
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Let's see, what do we have here?

Are investigators saying they found evidence in the FDR playback that the engine's settings were mis-matched to the cockpit inputs?

No.

Are pilots being being quoted as telling about aircraft performing uncommanded maneuvers?

No.

Are passengers being interviewed about how their flight was suddenly going sideways, and they were sure they were all going to die, and it was the most terrifying thing ever, except for the lack of a ramekin for their nuts?

Still no.

What we do have:
The document that the article is quoting from is an application for a search warrant - and since the FBI is asking permission to go search this guy's stuff, they want to make what he did look as bad as possible so the judge will think it's important to grant the warrant. If the guy claimed he did something really really bad/stupid, you can bet the white off your eyeballs the FBI agent will put that claim into the application.
 
JHwk
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:42 pm

Blindly dismissing the potential of a hack is ignorant... There are attacks that target air-gapped networks, using sound, light, heat output/power consumption, etc. as the communication path.

Many vulnerabilities are introduced when system changes aren't fully thought through across the whole system... Like both the flight systems and onboard wifi using the same sat link... I am sure there is a firewall between the two parts, but is it COTS equipment or custom? Are there any known vulnerabilities for them? How are passwords for the equipment maintained? Are they shared across a fleet? Are any attacks properly logged and acted on?

Security is hard to implement and requires constant vigilance to maintain.
 
twincessna340a
Posts: 126
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 5:15 pm

Quoting JHwk (Reply 45):
There are attacks that target air-gapped networks, using sound, light, heat output/power consumption, etc. as the communication path.

Don't forget chainsaws!   



Quoting JHwk (Reply 45):
Many vulnerabilities are introduced when system changes aren't fully thought through across the whole system... Like both the flight systems and onboard wifi using the same sat link

  
 
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cjg225
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting NYPECO (Reply 41):
Even if these claims are true, I highly doubt the plane flew sideways.

When I read "sideways" I think "yaw."

Wouldn't asymmetric thrust at level flight basically create the same situation as stepping on a rudder pedal?
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Natflyer
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 5:59 pm

" His tweet about the Engine Indicator Crew Alert System, or EICAS, was a reference to research he’d done years ago on vulnerabilities in inflight infotainment networks, vulnerabilities that could allow an attacker to access cabin controls and deploy a plane’s oxygen masks."

First of all a 738 does not have EICAS. The 738 is a reallly dumb airplane with a very archaic array of Master Caution lights instead. So this idiot claims all sorts of crap when in reality cabin temperature can't even be controlled from the cabin....
 
spacecadet
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RE: Engineer Kicked Off UA Flight Hacked & Flew Plane.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting NYPECO (Reply 41):
I highly doubt the plane flew sideways.

"Lateral or sideways movement" is a lot different from "flew sideways". And any of you guys would know what was meant by that if you read literally the first two paragraphs of the article.

Quoting flightless (Reply 44):
Are investigators saying they found evidence in the FDR playback that the engine's settings were mis-matched to the cockpit inputs?

No.

"He told the FBI that the period in which he accessed the in-flight networks more than a dozen times occurred between 2011 and 2014."

You got an FDR that goes back to 2011?

Quoting flightless (Reply 44):
Are pilots being being quoted as telling about aircraft performing uncommanded maneuvers?

No.

They may not have even noticed, or found it serious enough to do anything about if they had. If he only did it for a moment (it was said to cause a "lateral movement" which doesn't sound like a continuous thing), it could have almost felt like turbulence. The pilots may not have seen the increase in engine power if it was quick, or may have assumed it was the autopilot compensating for the turbulence. (I'm not sure it'd do so asymmetrically, but again, if it was just a momentary thing that happened once, I doubt the pilots would give it much thought.)

Quoting flightless (Reply 44):
Are passengers being interviewed about how their flight was suddenly going sideways,

Way to be overdramatic. No one except you guys in this thread has even suggested that this would have been the experience.
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