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OMP777X
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AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:23 am

Apparently Air India and it's troublesome crews are at it again. Supposedly one of AI's senior captain's reported for duty drunk and smelling of alcohol, and was prevented from flying the plane. One would imagine that would be a career ending event, yet he has been reprimanded a few times for reporting to work intoxicated in the past, yet was still being considered for a position as an instructor within the airline. Why would any airline in their right mind not have terminated him after the first reported instance?
http://m.hindustantimes.com/india-ne...efore-flight/article1-1347999.aspx

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OMP777X
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cha747
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 5:52 am

Quoting OMP777X (Thread starter):
Why would any airline in their right mind not have terminated him after the first reported instance?

AI has never had a mind.....
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TheRedBaron
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:04 am

I wonder what it will take to make this Airline get serious, about being profesional, and safe... wait, its government owned... never mind...

TRB
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zeke
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:16 am

Quoting OMP777X (Thread starter):

Something odd about this. The level in India is zero, however the body normally always naturally has a small percentage. Any amount above zero is a fail. Failing a preliminary breath test, and passing the subsequent blood test I guess would not sell many papers.
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OMP777X
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:51 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 3):
Something odd about this. The level in India is zero, however the body normally always naturally has a small percentage. Any amount above zero is a fail. Failing a preliminary breath test, and passing the subsequent blood test I guess would not sell many papers.


I'm not entirely sure I understand your point, Zeke. Was it that you believe he gave a false positive when tested? It seems as if he was legitimately drunk according to the report I linked to above (witness reports mention he reeked of liquor). If it were a false positive I doubt there would've been any grounds for a suspension after a blood test. I am just dumbfounded as to how any airline on this planet would allow for a fourth incident of potential flying a commercial airliner while intoxicated to occur for any pilot. He must have clout through the roof.
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migair54
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 6:53 am

Quoting cha747 (Reply 1):
AI has never had a mind.....

you´re so right, he was even considered for instructor, that says everything, but not only about AI but also about the Indian aviation Authority. Because it was the 3rd time!!!

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 2):
I wonder what it will take to make this Airline get serious, about being profesional, and safe... wait, its government owned... never mind...

We all want to know also...
 
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zeke
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 7:09 am

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 4):
I'm not entirely sure I understand your point, Zeke. Was it that you believe he gave a false positive when tested? It seems as if he was legitimately drunk according to the report I linked to above (witness reports mention he reeked of liquor). If it were a false positive I doubt there would've been any grounds for a suspension after a blood test.

Where I work we have had crew accused of being drunk and smelling of liquor, they are suspended immediately pending the outcome of blood tests. Blood tests come back days later clear, nothing happens to the ground staff for making a false report. I know similar has happened in the UK, makes the paper, crew pass the subsequent blood test.

I dont know either way in this case, in India I believe it is a 3 year suspension, I find it hard to believe he has previously been suspended for 6 years. http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D5f-f3.pdf

Something does not sound right.
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SIA747Megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 12:00 pm

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 2):
wait, its government owned... never mind...

What does government ownership have to do with being professional and safe?
I found the edit signature button
 
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N776AU
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 1:36 pm

Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 7):
What does government ownership have to do with being professional and safe?

Because there is nothing the government can do better than the private sector except be incompetent and waste money.
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OMP777X
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting zeke (Reply 6):
Where I work we have had crew accused of being drunk and smelling of liquor, they are suspended immediately pending the outcome of blood tests. Blood tests come back days later clear, nothing happens to the ground staff for making a false report. I know similar has happened in the UK, makes the paper, crew pass the subsequent blood test.

I dont know either way in this case, in India I believe it is a 3 year suspension, I find it hard to believe he has previously been suspended for 6 years. http://dgca.nic.in/cars/D5f-f3.pdf

Something does not sound right.

I see what you mean, Zeke. We'll have to wait and see what transpires with this one. Things seem more severe than a false positive based on what was reported, but it could be a case of the media making something out of nothing. On the job in my line of work if you're caught with any BAC on a breath test you are practically guaranteed to be terminated on the spot by the general contractor for that job, and almost certainly would receive a layoff from your own contractor (which would take place after you go to a union members assistance program for counseling before being reinstated, and then you'd be assigned to a new contractor after your shop gives you the boot), yet we are hardly in charge of the lives of 300+ people like a captain of a widebody. It appears as if this guy has serious pull within the airline, because unless what you've suggested is true, I cannot imagine how many millions of dollars would be lost by the airline in lawsuits had any passenger injury of any sort resulted from an incident on this captain's plane after people reported him as being a drunk on the ground before take off. Despite all of that he apparently will continue to fly for them, seeing as reports have indicated he has not been derostered.

What boggles my mind is that this is the very same Air India which denied 56 applicants a chance at employment on their A320 fleet after they failed a ten minute verbal psychiatric interview that the airline gave them in an attempt to prevent a repeat of 4U9525. Those applicants are crying foul, and it seems they rightly should based on the allegations that the interview wasn't exactly scientific or valid in many ways. Yet, if you're already on board as a captain with AI you can be trusted to fly intoxicated unless airport security notices?
http://indianexpress.com/article/cit...nt-test-flawed-itment-test-flawed/

Here in the U.S. many police departments will give a breathalyzer to a motorist on site for suspected DWI, and then give them a blood test for alcohol afterwards, which usually ends up showing less of a BAC than the breath test. The reason that would be is usually based on the fact that lots of time passes by between tests, and some police officers have been caught using this to their advantage by giving friends and family a break and purposely waiting hours between the tests to try and let them off the hook and making it seem like a malfunction or false positive occurred. Maybe AI can pull off that move? Either way, here if you are obviously smelling of alcohol and don't appear sober, you can get charged with DWI without even having registered any BAC at all. I believe the same should apply to pilots initially (pull them from the flight) but that their fate should be based on the end result of an in depth investigation.
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DTWPurserBoy
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:12 pm

AI has a large number of staff with relatives in very high government positions. It would be virtually impossible to terminate them due to their influence.

Unfortunately this is not unique to India. There are other nations (such as the Philippines) where there are similar issues. Of course, it is totally wrong, unprofessional and dangerous and it will take ICAO or some similar group to step in and effect change for the public safety.
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zeke
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 9):

I am not sure, but I think in India crews are tested before every flight, and it is the company that has to supply and maintain the system and records. The rules vary considerably between countries.

Security/ground staff are not medical practitioners, if they have a suspicion someone is unfit, I welcome them raising it. I do not welcome it reaching the press before natural justice has been completed.
Human rights lawyers are "ambulance chasers of the very worst kind.'" - Sky News
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 4):

A good process has consistency.  
Quoting SIA747Megatop (Reply 7):

As soon as politics over-rides setting down good process. Look at other government owned airlines, jobs become about connections, not work performance. Also, look at transparency international. The GoI's corruption index is getting worse, not better.

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ltbewr
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 4:26 pm

Could there have been some vendetta against this pilot ? So some crew members who don't like him over his body odor, from a lower caste, religion, or just a jerk to work with may just use the allegations of not being fully sober to keep them off their flight. Management needs to be very careful but firm as to false allegations, nor should they show any favoritism due to government connections.
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 7:04 pm

Quoting N776AU (Reply 8):
Because there is nothing the government can do better than the private sector except be incompetent and waste money.

How many Chapter 11 bankruptcies have American airlines gone through in aviation history? This politically biased and incorrect talking point belongs on the Rush Limbaugh show.
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):
As soon as politics over-rides setting down good process. Look at other government owned airlines, jobs become about connections, not work performance.

Unlike the private airlines that get bailouts and handouts, who give golden parachutes to executives that failed at their job, and rewards incompetence and connections just like some state companies have been guilty of? Tell us more about the brilliance of the free market, Mr. Reagan!
 
N747PE
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 9:00 pm

Maybe he flies better drunk?  
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 15):

Private airlines all received the same 911 loans that made the government a profit. Chapter 11 is a process that transfers ownership of a company to the creditors with the prior owners suffering for their poor stewardship. If the creditors prefer liquidation, that is their option. Since a company is generally worth more as a functioning entity, creditors usually choose to take equity rather than force liquidation.

If you've ever read Bernstein you would understand it is more important to have known laws. Since the USA has no trouble attracting investment..

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OMP777X
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Sun May 17, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 10):
Unfortunately this is not unique to India. There are other nations (such as the Philippines) where there are similar issues. Of course, it is totally wrong, unprofessional and dangerous and it will take ICAO or some similar group to step in and effect change for the public safety.

That is what I'm hoping to see in the very near future, especially when there are stories like this one in the news. That is what also what I wanted to find out about by starting this thread. Is there viability to any sort of a solution that would prevent people from getting extra chances in the airline based on connections and politics, especially if substance abuse was their core issue? I think it is one thing to get an extra chance at taking an exam, or receiving some tips from an instructor on the side before a performance analysis... but giving someone a fourth chance to not show up to work and attempt to go on and fly drunk? That is a seriously different scenario altogether.

Ultimately, it seems that the global aviation industry needs to implement some system in order to avoid another preventable tragedy. There is too much at stake for the airlines themselves to not pull something together that would prevent this from occuring worldwide. Some folks in my local police department consider their clout heavy fellow officers who get away with breaking every rule in the book as being like an epidemic disease that kills productivity and increases poor performance because the clouted know that they will keep their spot no matter what.

For all of the critics who came out of the woodwork after the Germanwings tragedy and claimed that it should've been prevented because of previous pilots committing suicide, and that psychiatric testing should obviously have been part of the annual medical exams, and should already be mandatory. Maybe an ethics course and some training on substance abuse would help the airline employees? There is no excuse for this type of behavior by any cabin crew, not even onelce, but of course like you said it will still happen. IMHO, there should be zero tolerance for it, unless for some serious extenuating circumstances (i.e. A diagnosis of a medical condition that makes you appear drunk, e.g. someone having a stroke staggering and talking with slurred speech).

Quoting N747PE (Reply 16):
Maybe he flies better drunk?  

I don't doubt that is possible, but it doesn't seem very likely. I get that you aren't being entirely serious, but from talking to a friend who worked as cabin crew for a certain Swiss airline, she claimed she would always know when a particular captain was flying the plane by hand, especially during landings (which weren't done on autoland), and it was all based on how poorly he handled the plane. He was known to be a drunk, and he may very well have flown better or was more "in the zone" when he was drunk to some degree, but you know by the time they landed somewhere far off after a long haul flight he'd be getting a solid case of the shakes if not delirium tremens (assuming he isn't like Denzel was in "Flight" and putting the bottles back in the first class galley). I'd rather be on board a plane where alcohol didn't play a factor in either pilots ability to safely perform their duties during the flight.
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b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 17):
Private airlines all received the same 911 loans that made the government a profit. Chapter 11 is a process that transfers ownership of a company to the creditors with the prior owners suffering for their poor stewardship. If the creditors prefer liquidation, that is their option. Since a company is generally worth more as a functioning entity, creditors usually choose to take equity rather than force liquidation.

If you've ever read Bernstein you would understand it is more important to have known laws. Since the USA has no trouble attracting investment..

I did not comment on the importance of ch11, you have backpedaled and started a new argument. I only stated airlines have failed in the same problems you both claimed state run airlines suffer from. Government is just as efficient as private industry, but government is accountable to tax payers.
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 18):
I get that you aren't being entirely serious, but from talking to a friend who worked as cabin crew for a certain Swiss airline, she claimed she would always know when a particular captain was flying the plane by hand, especially during landings (which weren't done on autoland), and it was all based on how poorly he handled the plane.

Just as a point of order, your friend is full of shit. Nobody behind the door can tell whether you're on autoland or not (if you can tell out that teeny tiny sideways looking window that you're in Cat IIIb, you can make a reasonable guess it's in auto, but even then, the galley girls aren't going to figure that out.) As for flying "styles", same again. Too many variables like WX or traffic situations can be present for someone in the back to know what's up, or even how well the landing went. This is why check airmen do their audits from a jumpseat, rather than from behind a trolley.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
CO953
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 4:16 am

Predictability in an older employee or airplane does have its merits, some say.   
 
747megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 4:21 am

Quoting TheRedBaron (Reply 2):
I wonder what it will take to make this Airline get serious,

Shutting down the airline will.
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 5:20 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
I did not comment on the importance of ch11,

And yet you mentioned:

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 14):
How many Chapter 11 bankruptcies have American airlines gone through in aviation history?

Enough, but the current airlines seem to finally have shaken off their legacy heritage and now are growing well.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
Government is just as efficient as private industry, but government is accountable to tax payers.

Huh? Government industries tend to be bloated. Industries accountable to shareholders are more efficient. There is a reason BA was spun off. It worked. I could name other examples, but I chose to illustrate off your flag.

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747megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 5:46 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
Government is just as efficient as private industry, but government is accountable to tax payers.

Huh? Government industries tend to be bloated. Industries accountable to shareholders are more efficient. There is a reason BA was spun off. It worked. I could name other examples, but I chose to illustrate off your flag.

Government industries can be efficient but it is very rare. It depends a lot on the government. Biggest and most famous of all examples is Singapore Airlines whose major airlines is the Singapore Govt.

Source - https://www.singaporeair.com/jsp/cms/en_UK/global_header/shareholdinginfo.jsp [56% owned by Temasek Holdings (Pte) Ltd]
http://eresources.nlb.gov.sg/history...37d990-f72e-4cce-b86d-71e33f5f9695 [details of Temasek Holdings (Pte) Ltd]

http://www.referenceforbusiness.com/...ry2/38/Singapore-Airlines-Ltd.html


Government of Singapore Investment Corp is another noteworthy state/govt owned enterprise. This example is from the financial sector though. But goes to prove that point that govt owned entities/firms can also be successful and is very rare and a lot depends on the country and the govt running the entity.
 
747megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 5:48 am

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 10):
AI has a large number of staff with relatives in very high government positions.

How do you know this?
 
Mir
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 6:46 am

Quoting zeke (Reply 3):
The level in India is zero, however the body normally always naturally has a small percentage. Any amount above zero is a fail.

Which leads me to believe there's no firm limit, and that it varies based on who is taking the test.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 20):
Nobody behind the door can tell whether you're on autoland or not

If you're seated in the front FA jumpseat you might be close enough to hear the autopilot disconnect warning. I've heard that and GPWS callouts from the first row, so it's not impossible.

-Mir
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Grummancat
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 7:04 am

Quoting OMP777X (Thread starter):
Why would any airline in their right mind not have terminated him after the first reported instance?

Because it's Air India, and when sober, he proved he could fly an airplane.
 
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sturmovik
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 8:06 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 25):
How do you know this?

Try going through the process of getting hired at an AI (or any other airline in India, for that matter) and see. Most that get hired at airlines in India already know someone on the inside, regardless of airline. In the case of AI, the person on the inside more often than not happens to be a government official. I cannot give you a public source on this, but I went to flight school in India (albeit for a PPL, admittedly), and know quite a lot of student pilots, instructors, and CPL holders. Every single one from my acquaintances that got hired, followed the same process - which involved favours to/from a person on the inside. The three AI pilots I know personally all have government contacts - both bureaucrats and politicians - who got them the job.

As for the drunk for duty issue, one of my friends who is a retired IC/9W captain with 20k+ hours tells me that it is a wider culture of impunity regardless of airline. He mentioned the case of a fellow captain 6-7 years ago who turned up for duty over the limit, and the medical crew who checked him advised him to quietly go away for a few hours and come back and report for duty when he would presumably be under the limit. He reported a few hours later with the BAC level even higher, and the ticked off medical crew reported him. At my own flight school, we knew of students turning up to fly four hours after a party, and one guy caused a near-miss after making an impromptu diversion back to the field on a cross country because he wanted to throw up (since we were technically an uncontrolled field, that kinda thing would never get reported).

In this particular case, while I'm inclined to believe the story, there may be more to it than meets the eye. Reporting on aviation is very poor in India, and the sensationalism goes up a coupla notches when AI is involved. Could also be a case of someone with a grudge too. These are all situations that have played out in the past.
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Nimish
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 11:43 am

If true, I hope this captain has his license taken away. He's welcome to retire and spend the rest of his years in his friendly neighbourhood bar!
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davs5032
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 1:09 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 15):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 12):As soon as politics over-rides setting down good process. Look at other government owned airlines, jobs become about connections, not work performance.
Unlike the private airlines that get bailouts and handouts, who give golden parachutes to executives that failed at their job, and rewards incompetence and connections just like some state companies have been guilty of? Tell us more about the brilliance of the free market, Mr. Reagan!

Your position is an interesting one to take..arguing against the success of free markets. It's also a difficult argument to make, since it contradicts...you know...the history of human kind.
 
audian
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 1:31 pm

Its sheer stupidity of an airline for not suspending the pilot for his earlier conduct.
 
OMP777X
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 4:39 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 20):
Just as a point of order, your friend is full of shit. Nobody behind the door can tell whether you're on autoland or not (if you can tell out that teeny tiny sideways looking window that you're in Cat IIIb, you can make a reasonable guess it's in auto, but even then, the galley girls aren't going to figure that out.) As for flying "styles", same again. Too many variables like WX or traffic situations can be present for someone in the back to know what's up, or even how well the landing went. This is why check airmen do their audits from a jumpseat, rather than from behind a trolley.

I'm not sure why you are so salty over a comment my friend made about drunk pilots, but I suppose if I had worded that differently it would make more sense. Sometimes I'm posting here from my smartphone, and with all of the distracting crap going on in the background I don't always come across as clearly as I intend to. I meant to say, what she told me was assuming that the plane wasn't doing the landing itself, she could guess which of the two pilots handled the landing and would almost always be right because of how poorly the plane was handled by the one captain that she alleged was the drunk. I didn't mean she could tell through ESP whether the plane was on autoland or autopilot while she was sitting in her jumpseat, or anything like that.

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 28):
Most that get hired at airlines in India already know someone on the inside, regardless of airline.

The same thing is true here in the U.S. The main difference I can tell from what I hear is that here it is less about knowing political figures or people who have other outside influence, and more about knowing people within the airline itself, like your saying is the case with AI as well. I don't doubt though if Barack Obama's best friend wanted a job at AA and he made a phone call or two, his pal might stand a better chance than another pilot with the same experience and less personal contacts.

Quoting Nimish (Reply 29):
He's welcome to retire and spend the rest of his years in his friendly neighbourhood bar!

  

Quoting Audian (Reply 31):
Its sheer stupidity of an airline for not suspending the pilot for his earlier conduct.

It may be that they had suspended him previously, but it is shocking that he maintained employment with them as he carried it on beyond a first incident.
"Happy Flighting!"
 
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sturmovik
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 32):
I don't doubt though if Barack Obama's best friend wanted a job at AA and he made a phone call or two, his pal might stand a better chance than another pilot with the same experience and less personal contacts.

I don't disagree, but I doubt that that's virtually the only way to get a job at AA..  
'What's it doing now?'
 
747megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 32):
The same thing is true here in the U.S.

Absolutely. And definitely happens at the highest levels too in corporate America. The head honcho (CEO) or others high up in the organization brings in his/her chose hand picked team. Have seen it happen in many places.
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 7:07 pm

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 30):
Your position is an interesting one to take..arguing against the success of free markets. It's also a difficult argument to make, since it contradicts...you know...the history of human kind.

Well if you have to put words in my mouth and make up arguments I did not make, of course you are going to pretend you are right. I only stated that the negatives of state owned enterprises is identical to the negatives of the free market. Corruption, incompetence, and other negatives affect both companies and governments. There is no magical success of either, both have flaws. It is quite unfortunate that quickly glancing at wikipedia and calling yourself an expert on economics or politics or history has become accepted practice on internet discussion forums. But quite ironic, that you champion the magic of the free market, and aviation, when it is governments and tax dollars that were required for both to be successful.

[Edited 2015-05-18 12:12:18]
 
b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 23):
Huh? Government industries tend to be bloated. Industries accountable to shareholders are more efficient. There is a reason BA was spun off. It worked. I could name other examples, but I chose to illustrate off your flag.

I too can make bland general statements not proven by facts or bring up more irrelevant examples. Industries accountable to shareholders are more efficient, government industries are more bloated than private, any other non sourced claims you'd like to pull out of thin air? Tell me, which is your favorite Fox News show?
 
OMP777X
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Posts: 455
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Mon May 18, 2015 7:09 pm

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 33):

I don't disagree, but I doubt that that's virtually the only way to get a job at AA..  

Of course it isn't, but it could make a difference. I read that getting into Harvard is easier than getting a job as a flight attendant with Delta (I'm speaking strictly in terms of the numbers, not effort wise), seeing as they had 100,000 applicants for an available 1,000 positions, making it a 1% acceptance rate. 5% of those who apply to Harvard get in. In both cases with such competition for a spot results in the people who have a friend on the inside making it in way more often than those who do not have an in.

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 34):

Absolutely. And definitely happens at the highest levels too in corporate America. The head honcho (CEO) or others high up in the organization brings in his/her chose hand picked team. Have seen it happen in many places.

It happens across the board in many lines of work and different professional settings. To get into my union it helps to know someone, and to get a sweet spot at a good contractor once you're in it helps to have a friend write a letter of intent saying that they want you to work for them when you graduate the apprenticeship school. Once you get in with them, depending on who you know you'll either get sent to a rough job, or a nice and easy one (generally speaking).
"Happy Flighting!"
 
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Tue May 19, 2015 5:10 am

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 32):

I'm not sure why you are so salty over a comment my friend made about drunk pilots, but I suppose if I had worded that differently it would make more sense.

Salty? I like that . I wouldn't put a whole of stock into all that. It's just how I talk, lol. A side effect of a career in Aviation I suppose.

Quoting OMP777X (Reply 32):
Sometimes I'm posting here from my smartphone, and with all of the distracting crap going on in the background I don't always come across as clearly as I intend to.

No worries there. And I do see your point, I just happen to think her account is a bit anecdotal.

In any case, I've jumpseated enough to know that auto or otherwise, there are so many variables that it really is true what the MCP jockeys say... Any Landing You Walk Away From Is A Good One.

Quoting Mir (Reply 26):

If you're seated in the front FA jumpseat you might be close enough to hear the autopilot disconnect warning. I've heard that and GPWS callouts from the first row, so it's not impossible.

That's fair. But I still think it's nigh on impossible to judge how good or intoxed a pilot is from there.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
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lightsaber
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Tue May 19, 2015 5:46 am

Quoting 747megatop (Reply 24):
Government industries can be efficient but it is very rare. It depends a lot on the government. Biggest and most famous of all examples is Singapore Airlines whose major airlines is the Singapore Govt.

Agreed that Singapore and Dubai are two major exceptions. The exceptions only seem to work with small countries that depend on the business success. AI is not such a case and is certainly not an efficient entity.

Lightsaber
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b747400erf
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Tue May 19, 2015 7:33 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 39):

Agreed that Singapore and Dubai are two major exceptions. The exceptions only seem to work with small countries that depend on the business success. AI is not such a case and is certainly not an efficient entity.

You keep making this argument and ignoring my request for proof. If you cannot provide citations, your argument is not based on facts.
 
747megatop
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Tue May 19, 2015 7:02 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 40):
You keep making this argument and ignoring my request for proof.

The proof is out there in the open and discussed in this thread. It is just there for you to see.

Here are some examples though since you asked -

Mismanaged and poorly run govt entities - AI, Almost any business entity in the former USSR.

Good and properly run entity majorly owned by the govt. - SQ, Government of Singapore Investment Corp .

Good and properly run private entities - Jet Blue, SWA, Google, Amazon, RollsRoyce [the list is too huge to list].

Poorly run and mismanaged private entities - Enron, Lehmann Bros., PanAm etc. [if these were state owned entities
they would not have shut shop and would have continued to run like AI since state run entities are mostly not accountable].

[Edited 2015-05-19 12:39:01]
 
OMP777X
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RE: AI Captain Shows Up To Fly Plane Drunk, Again.

Tue May 19, 2015 7:10 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 38):
Salty? I like that . I wouldn't put a whole of stock into all that. It's just how I talk, lol. A side effect of a career in Aviation I suppose.

I apologize then in that case. In my head it came across as if you were somehow really deeply upset about her comment when I read that. I too talk like that in person, but tidy it up a but on here.


Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 38):
No worries there. And I do see your point, I just happen to think her account is a bit anecdotal.

In any case, I've jumpseated enough to know that auto or otherwise, there are so many variables that it really is true what the MCP jockeys say... Any Landing You Walk Away From Is A Good One.

While that all may very well be true, I think it was just her way of saying that not only was his alcoholism noticeble in person, but that it also affected his performance as a pilot. English isn't her native language so she puts together her thoughts into words In the sentences she says unlike I naturally would. I just likened it to me saying something like "I'm always able to tell which type of plane is flying over head by its sound", which while it might often be true, it isn't meant to be taken literally as an accurate claim.

Quoting Mir (Reply 26):
If you're seated in the front FA jumpseat you might be close enough to hear the autopilot disconnect warning. I've heard that and GPWS callouts from the first row, so it's not impossible.

-Mir

That might be one way to tell. Or maybe you could just comment on the landing to one of the pilots afterwards and tell through a brief discussion who landed the plane, and piece together how it felt in your head and make a mental note of it.
"Happy Flighting!"

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