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pilot21
Topic Author
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Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 6:29 am

Anybody within BA have an idea on the general reliability of the E170/E190 fleet based out of LCY?
Almost every week there seems to be a tech issue mentioned on the BA source website and there have been a lot of Avro85 lease-in's over the last few months to cover flights. For a new fleet it just appears as if they have more tech issues then should seem normal, so wondering if anybody has further insight?

Pilot21
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 10:16 am

I have been wondering the same thing.

Since the beginning of March BA CityFlyer have variously wet leased D-AMGL and D-AWBA from WDL, G-LENM from Cello Aviation and G-SMLA from JOTA Aviation.

The detail below shows the intensity of these wet leases:

01 March: G-LENM EDI-LCY
02 March: G-LENM one GLA one ZRH and another GLA rotation
03 March: G-LENM operated one DUB, one GLA and one EDI rotation
04 March: G-LENM one GLA, one NCE and another GLA rotation
05 March: G-LENM one EDI and one ZRH rotation and then LCY-EDI
06 March: G-LENM EDI-LCY and one GLA rotation

09 March: D-AWBA three FRA-LCY-FRA rotations
10 March: D-AWBA three FRA-LCY-FRA rotations
11 March: D-AWBA one FRA-LCY-FRA rotation, FRA-LCY, one DUS rotation and LCY-DUS
12 March: D-AWBA three FRA-DUS-FRA rotations
13 March; D-AWBA one DUS-LCY-DUS rotation and went tech at DUS. Replaced by D-AMGL one DUS-LCY-DUS rotation

15 March: G-LENM one EDI rotation and LCY-EDI after G-LCYN went tech
16 March: G-SMLA one GLA and one EDI rotation
17 March: G-SMLA one EDI rotation

19 March: G-SMLA one GLA rotation then LCY-GLA . D-AWBA operated one FRA rotation and LCY-FRA
20 March: G-SMLA GLA-LCY and one GLA rotation. D-AWBA operated FRA-LCY, one GLA rotation and LCY-GLA

22 March: G-SMLA one EDI rotation
23 March: G-SMLA one GLA and one EDI rotation
24 March: G-SMLA one EDI and one GLA rotation
25 March: G-SMLA GLA-LCY, a GLA rotation and then LCY-GLA
26 March: G-SMLA one ZRH and one GLA rotation
27 March: G-SMLA one DUB and two EDI rotations then LCY-EDI. D-AMGL one ZRH rotation and LCY-GLA

01 April: G-LENM one EDI rotation but weather diversion to SEN on 2nd leg
02 April: G-SMLA one GLA rotation

09 April: G-LENM GLA-LCY and one EDI rotation

19 April: G-LENM EDI-LCY
20 April: G-LENM two GLA rotations and then LCY-GLA
21 April: G-LENM GLA-LCY and one EDI rotation. G-SMLA then operated a second EDI rotation
22 April: G-SMLA one EDI rotation and then LCY-EDI. G-LENM then operated one GLA rotation
23 April: G-SMLA EDI-LCY, one NCE and one GLA rotation and then LCY-GLA
24 April: G-SMLA one GLA-LCY-GLA rotation

05 May: G-SMLA one EDI rotation
06 May: G-SMLA one GLA rotation. G-LENM one GLA rotation
07 May: G-LENM one EDI and one ZRH rotation. D-AMGL two FRA-LCY-FRA rotations

15 May: G-SMLA operated one NCE rotation

Technical problems with the BA CityFlyer EMB fleet seems to be almost certainly the explanation. However there could be extenuating circumstances that magnify these problems. For example is the fleet big enough? What is the impact of these aircraft not operating from a hub with full engineering facilities?

That there is no back-up aircraft seems to be clear. But if there were a back-up aircraft it could not be parked at LCY. There is not the space and even if there were the parking costs would likely be prohibitive. So why not rely on Cello at BHX or JOTA at SEN. As the above listing shows one of them will likely have an aircraft available.

While on the subject of the BA CityFlyer E-Jet fleet I was interested to see that E-190 G-LCYK was positioned to LGW yesterday (16 May) and today entered service LGW-JER (BA2768). I believe this is the first time any E-Jet has operated a scheduled flight for British Airways either out of LGW or LHR.
 
TCX69K
Posts: 229
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 8:13 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 10:38 am

Although some of the wetleases/subcharters are due to tech issues within the fleet, some of it is due to shortage of aircraft. There is a differing E90 out of the programme currently, undergoing MX in WAW which doesn't help.

LGW are suffering from tech issues and fleet shortages too, hence G–LCYK operating 2 return JER sectors today.

Quote:
I believe this is the first time any E-Jet has operated a scheduled flight for British Airways either out of LGW or LHR.

G–LCYK operated for BA Mainline last Sunday too. Operating BA2597/6 GLALGWGLA.

I'm pretty sure BA CityFlyer cannot operate BA Mainline flights from LHR due to pilot agreements.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4883
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 10:46 am

They can't fly regularly from LHR/LGW, seems they can sub.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 11:13 am

Quoting TCX69K (Reply 2):
G–LCYK operated for BA Mainline last Sunday too. Operating BA2597/6 GLALGWGLA.

Many thanks.

I guess I missed that in the absence of a positioning flight before or after the temporary transfer.
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3684
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 1:20 pm

Quoting TCX69K (Reply 2):
I'm pretty sure BA CityFlyer cannot operate BA Mainline flights from LHR due to pilot agreements.

There are two agreements in the scope clauses.
First Cityflyer are limited to under 100 seats. This is why the E190 are only 98 seats.
Then they cannot operate from LHR or LGW. They must have got agreement from BALPA for these flights.
The BA shorthaul Airbus fleet is a bit short of hulls. The summer schedule assumed that the 10 newly leased A320 would be in service at LGW, but only 5 have arrived. This means that the B734 are being kept on, probably up to the end of August. This causes problems as they were meant to have gone (pilots need sim checks, aircraft need maint, both not planned), and you see a lot of LHR A320 and A319 flying out of LGW for odd days to fill the gaps. The BA planners hope some more of the leased A320 arrive soon.
 
richardw
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Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 2:10 pm

I've noticed this from the BA Source website as well, it's the cancellations and lack of back up which seems concerning especially when profitability depends on business frequent flyers.

Huzar v Jet2 in the UK Supreme Court viz technical problems EC261/2004 compensation was very much in the passengers favour, so a more reliable operation appears to be needed.

It'll be also interesting to see if the JTR and JMK long sectors this summer will be problem free.

As the UK economy grows it'll be interesting to see if any winter high end leisure flights appear in the schedule, perhaps to the Canary Islands or Morocco.

Not sure if there are any weekend LCY closed period missed opportunities from SEN or STN and to other high end leisure airports such as CEQ.
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 3:13 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 6):
Not sure if there are any weekend LCY closed period missed opportunities from SEN or STN and to other high end leisure airports such as CEQ.

BA CityFlyer seem to be focussing on operating weekend charter flights with E-Jets that overnight, or, in this case, over-weekend, at airports other than LCY. BA are operating their LON area weekend holiday charters primarily out of LHR with 320s and 321s.

Examples of the BA CityFlyer charter flights I am referring to are:

EDI-MAH-EDI (BA4473/74)

GLA-VRN-GLA (BA4519/20)

GLA-AGP-GLA (BA4527/28)

The above have the advantage of no positioning flight. However the exception appears to be an IOM-MAH charter (BA4541) that operated for the first time this weekend (16 May). After 170 G-LCYD positioned EDI-IOM it then operated the afore mentioned flight to MAH. Later it positioned straight back to EDI. This was likely because there had been no earlier outward bound charter on this route. So there were no returning passengers to fly home from Menorca to IOM.
 
pilot21
Topic Author
Posts: 983
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 1999 8:28 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 1):

Many thanks for the very comprehensive list of flights these wet leased planes have performed since March - it is quite a list!!

Obviously a mixture of tech and maintenance issues aren't helping, plus a potential maxed out ops mid-week which leaves very little slack in the schedule for issues!

Pilot21
Aircraft I've flown: A300/A310/A320/A321/A330/A340/B727/B732/B733/B734/B735/B738/B741/B742/B744/DC10/MD80/IL62/Bae146/AR
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 4:38 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 6):
As the UK economy grows it'll be interesting to see if any winter high end leisure flights appear in the schedule, perhaps to the Canary Islands or Morocco.

Last winter an E190 that over-weekended in Edinburgh was utilised for Winter Ski Charters.

The more interesting of these flights was BA4777/78. It either operated EDI-BCN-EDI or EDI-TLS-EDI. I think the oscillation between the two destinations - there were ten rotations, five to each of these airports - depended on the road conditions from Barcelona and Toulouse into the Pyrenees. The last three rotations of the season were to TLS (22 February), BCN (1 March) and TLS (9 March). So it is likely that some passengers flew out to one and home from the other of these two airports.

Another weekly Ski Charter last winter was EDI-CMF-EDI (BA4547/48).

What would be interesting would be if BA CityFlyer started to utilise aircraft that spent the short weekend at continental European airlines on either Winter Ski or Winter and / or Summer Sun Charters from their weekend stations. But perhaps the additional ground staff employment, direct or indirect, that would be necessary might make the cost of such flights uncompetitive. Nevertheless it seems that both BA CityFlyer and BA Main Line are looking to improve short-haul aircraft utilisation.
 
richardw
Posts: 3168
Joined: Tue May 08, 2001 3:17 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 6:04 pm

Yes VV701 some good detail about weekend charters, thanks.

But my main curiosity is business class missed opportunities to Leisure destinations as the Uk economy improves from the LCY/SEN/STN catchment area, there's a significant number of pax who don't want to fly from LGW & LHR.

[Edited 2015-05-17 11:05:42]
 
vv701
Posts: 5895
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:54 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 6:55 pm

Quoting richardw (Reply 10):
But my main curiosity is business class missed opportunities to Leisure destinations as the Uk economy improves from the LCY/SEN/STN catchment area

Sorry. I misunderstood.

The current scheduled BA CityFlyer flights to leisure destinations include:

AGP: BA8587 6-times weekly
FLR: BA3279 4-times weekly
GRX: BA3289 3-times weekly
IBZ: BA8461 4-times weekly
IBZ: BA9483 3-times weekly
NCE: BA8475 6-times weekly
PMI: BA8483 4-times weekly
VCE: BA8479 2-times weekly
 
Humberside
Posts: 3239
Joined: Sun Jan 01, 2006 12:44 am

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Sun May 17, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 7):
The above have the advantage of no positioning flight. However the exception appears to be an IOM-MAH charter

There are some charters from HUY that operate in a similar way with positioning flights to/from HUY required. ALC+PMI for jetXtra and a couple of one-off cruise charters
Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
 
N1120A
Posts: 26637
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 5:40 pm

RE: BA Citiflyer E170/E190 Fleet Reliabilty

Mon May 18, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting richardw (Reply 6):
Huzar v Jet2 in the UK Supreme Court viz technical problems EC261/2004 compensation was very much in the passengers favour, so a more reliable operation appears to be needed.

You mean, they actually got it right.
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