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JerseyFlyer
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Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 11:21 am

An interesting concept, aimed at speeding up pax entry and exit.

Presumably the centre fuselage doors would not be actually over the wings, which suggests wings set back along the fuselage and rear-mounted engines to balance cog.

Very large windows (or perhaps none and only electronic flat-creen views?)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...n-eliminate-queues-reach-seat.html

[Edited 2015-05-18 04:33:29]
 
VgnAtl747
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 2:03 pm

Airbus, Boeing, and many other companies patent stuff all the time that they don't intend on using. I would think that a double door would become a pressurization nightmare, but I could be wrong. It's a cool concept, but I don't think we'll see anything like it actually built anytime soon. Something that big would also likely dictate the redesign of many boarding bridges as the door would be quite a bit wider.
Work Hard. Fly Right. Continental Airlines
 
Layman
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 2:08 pm

The first problem is the complexity of the jigs to either bend the aluminum or if fibre composite, to remove the mandrel after firing.
The cigarette shape has evolved for a reason.

The first thing airlines will do when they see the shape is to put extra seats in the wide open space of the middle.
Back to square one.
 
tortugamon
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 2:25 pm

This sounds almost like Boeing's 'guppy' design:

http://www.flightglobal.com/blogs/fl...09/boeing_patent_may_provide_glim/

tortugamon
 
JHwk
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 2:40 pm

I prefer Boeing's Guppy to this; if you were to go the route of this patent why not go all the way to a BWB design?
 
JAAlbert
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 2:53 pm

I can't imagine Boeing or Airbus providing an aisle that wide!
 
CiC
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 3:09 pm

Are these windows really real windows or just "computer screen panels"?
As far as I read it real windows...   
 
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cosyr
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 3:12 pm

Great idea in concept, and an airplane might be one of the only form factors that could pull it off. From the mind of an engineer, not a business person. If Airbus builds it, extra seats will find their way into the wider space. Remember A350, Extra Wide Body? Ha! For 8 maybe, but now it will have 9 across making it more cramped than the 9 across 777 they were pitching it as competitor to. Although with 10 across in the 777, maybe Airbus got the last laugh.

You see my point. Ryanair and Southwest are the only ones that care that much about boarding faster, and Ryanair will get 2 extra seats in the space!
 
KFLLCFII
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 3:32 pm

Re-configuring a couple dozen gates for A380 compatibility is one thing, but accommodating mid-entry for virtually half the entire (traditional) narrow-body fleet worldwide just isn't going to happen.
"About the only way to look at it, just a pity you are not POTUS KFLLCFII, seems as if we would all be better off."
 
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3rdGen
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 4:32 pm

Remember all the hype about XWB etc. Airlines just found out that they could cram more seats in, and that's what they have done
لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 4:34 pm

Quoting KFLLCFII (Reply 8):
Re-configuring a couple dozen gates for A380 compatibility is one thing, but accommodating mid-entry for virtually half the entire (traditional) narrow-body fleet worldwide just isn't going to happen.

Not insurmountable by any means. If the wings are aft-mounted, then the boarding ramp is quite moveable.

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Thread starter):
Very large windows (or perhaps none and only electronic flat-creen views?)

I doubt that window-screens will ever get certification. In an evacuation, all power might fail (especially if the fuselage breaks in two) and passengers won't be able to see out to decide whether there is a hazard on one side of the fuselage like fire or debris.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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jreuschl
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 5:25 pm

Probably wouldn't make that much of a difference considering airlines board by zones that typically do not line up with actual seat location.
 
A332DTW
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 5:33 pm

Hasn't the industry learned that square windows on a pressurized tube is not a good idea, or has that problem been resolved with composite materials?
 
flyabr
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 5:37 pm

Laughed hysterically at that super wide aisle...ain't gonna happen! Excepting perhaps some newer airplane models improvements in cabin climate, what has been done in the last 20 years to enhance passenger space/comfort, especially in coach??!!
 
planesavvy
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 6:31 pm

Those pics remind me of the original Dreamliner artists impressions. Sold as a new era in comfort it turned into a new era of nightmares for economy passengers. The airlines would look at that space and add an extra row each side at least!
 
tortugamon
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 6:41 pm

Quoting planesavvy (Reply 14):
Sold as a new era in comfort it turned into a new era of nightmares for economy passengers.

That nightmare has been voted the number one aircraft to fly on in the united fleet by united's passengers. Higher than the 9 abreast 777s or 7-abreast 767s.

http://www.thestreet.com/story/13149...s-2nd-best-widebody-after-787.html

tortugamon
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 6:45 pm

Square windows!!!!     


Have they forgotten what happened to the Comet??
Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
 
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NYPECO
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 8:19 pm

Why does airbus keep coming up with these ridiculous "future aircraft" that we all know they never intend on building? First the aircraft with no cockpit windows, then the concept aircraft with a window for the entire roof, now this?
 
tootallsd
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 9:20 pm

I thought it looked like a bus.
 
awthompson
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 9:43 pm

Much of the video is complete pie in the sky in my opinion.
Most of it we will not see in any of our lifetimes if ever.
 
n9801f
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Mon May 18, 2015 10:44 pm

It's nice to see some inspired, creative thinking.

However leaving floorspace empty has a huge opportunity cost...

  
Quoting Layman (Reply 2):
The first thing airlines will do when they see the shape is to put extra seats in the wide open space of the middle.
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 12:52 am

Isn't 'fat in the middle - thin at the ends' exactly the opposite of what aerodynamicists want?
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 2:00 am

Am I the only one dreaming fifty years back in time? On Caravelle, DC-9, B727 and such we boarded on built-in stairs in front and back. Baggage was of course bundled into the ticket so people didn't bring all their belongings into the cabin.

It worked perfectly well. It was almost as simple as boarding a bus, a train, or our own car.

Then man invented and created an artificial problem, boarding chaos.

And now man finds the most stupid ways to try to solve that problem.

If that is what we call "progress"!!! Then I don't want to know what the opposite of progress is.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 22):
If that is what we call "progress"!!! Then I don't want to know what the opposite of progress is

Yeah, but using those fancy bridges is so much cooler.

 

Seriously though, let's not forget the mobility impaired passengers who are not exactly on speaking terms with stairs...
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
prebennorholm
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 2:47 am

Quoting francoflier (Reply 23):
Yeah, but using those fancy bridges is so much cooler.

Seriously though, let's not forget the mobility impaired passengers who are not exactly on speaking terms with stairs...

Right, those bridges are sometimes convenient, Sure they are.

But how often are we put on a sightseeing tour all over the tarmac on a bus with hardly a seat in order to board a plane using a single stair? It takes the record of inconvenience for mobility impaired pax.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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XAM2175
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 4:16 am

Quoting prebennorholm (Reply 22):
Am I the only one dreaming fifty years back in time? On Caravelle, DC-9, B727 and such we boarded on built-in stairs in front and back.

Ten years ago I was still boarding DJ (now VA) 73Gs and 738s at BNE via rear stairs... having walked half-way down the jetbridge to get to the stairs onto the apron! And as recently as three years ago I got to experience it all over again in a U2 race-across-the-ramp stampede at SXF 

I admire creative responses to problems as much as the next fellow but the solution to boarding being a chaotic pain is to
1) Stop discouraging checked baggage
2) Enforce carry-on baggage standards
3) Devise logical boarding procedures (ie two or three boarding groups ordered by row or seat position) and enforce them too.

QF do most of this already and they can in most cases board an A332 for a MEL-SYD run in no more than twenty-odd minutes from the first call for J-class passengers and status holders. I see now they're planning to get domestic turn times down to 30 minutes within the next two years, which will be a very interesting experiment (I remember reading about U2 shifting to 25 minute turns about fifteen years ago now!)

As to seat and aisle width... well, charter airlines got 8-abreast seating into 767s and D7 got 9-abreast into A330s. Need I say more? :p
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:18 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 16):
Have they forgotten what happened to the Comet??

This one probably won't be metal.

Quoting francoflier (Reply 21):

Isn't 'fat in the middle - thin at the ends' exactly the opposite of what aerodynamicists want?

No, that's exactly what they do want. The issue is that you need a wasp waist if you are mounting the wing amidships. If it goes aft, it's less of an issue.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Francoflier
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 9:20 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 26):
If it goes aft, it's less of an issue.

Wait, is it an DC-9 (/Caravelle...) config they're thinking about here?

Edit: Nevermind. Just saw the little sci-fi video in the article...

[Edited 2015-05-19 02:25:21]
I'll do my own airline. With Blackjack. And hookers. In fact, forget the airline.
 
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neutrino
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RE: Eventual A320 Replacement To Be "cigar-shaped"?

Tue May 19, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 16):

Square windows!!!!     


Have they forgotten what happened to the Comet??

Nope, they are hoping to be second time lucky.
Potestatem obscuri lateris nescitis

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