United Airline
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Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 6:30 am

Takes forever before they take delivery and they keep on delaying the delivery schedule. Makes me wonder if they are/ever were serious about the order. Will they take delivery of the A380 some day?
 
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Aquila3
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 6:43 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

Here we go again.
Is the A380 project dead?
Can anybody make money out of an A380 except subsidized EK?
Can anybody fill an A380?
The sky is falling, the sky is falling!
I was missing the weekly A380 bashing thread, don't you?
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danj555
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:20 am

yes but how about a NEO version? Would they be interested in that? LOL   
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:25 am

Of course they were serious about ording it at one point, but things change.

VS' focus has moved fairly dramatically over the years, and has often struggled to maintain any real momentum.
 
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kaichinshih
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:47 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):

It should change its name to "Delta Atlantic".
 
TC957
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 10:17 am

If the A380 was mooted as a replacement for the LHR 744's then it's too late now since they will be withdrawn in April'16, see other thread relating to that topic.
Since it's been, what now, over 10 years since VS ordered them I'm sure by now Airbus will want a commitment sooner rather than later. So it's high time VS go for them or kill the order off for once and for all.


Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 4):

Or Virgin Atlanta
 
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RWA380
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
Of course they were serious about ording it at one point, but things change.

VS' focus has moved fairly dramatically over the years, and has often struggled to maintain any real momentum
Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 4):
It should change its name to "Delta Atlantic"

Just remember that when the 747 was introduced almost every big US carrier ordered at least 1 or 2, even AS had 1 741 on the order books with Boeing. EA, CO, DL & NA all ordered the planes with little network to support it. It was a big status symbol & carriers paid for it dearly. VS has identified that the A-380 isn't for them, they should pull out of they can.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
If the A380 was mooted as a replacement for the LHR 744's then it's too late now since they will be withdrawn in April'16, see other thread relating to that topic.
Since it's been, what now, over 10 years since VS ordered them I'm sure by now Airbus will want a commitment sooner rather than later. So it's high time VS go for them or kill the order off for once and for all

Agreed, unless VS can line up another carrier that would want to lease it for a jump in the delivery line.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Or Virgin Atlanta

Those two words don't really belong together, LOL!
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Bongodog1964
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):

Takes forever before they take delivery and they keep on delaying the delivery schedule. Makes me wonder if they are/ever were serious about the order. Will they take delivery of the A380 some day?

When the A380's were ordered VS were operating 744's A343's and A346's. As it is now their policy to replace these with A333's and 787's it seems that a reduction in seat capacity rather than an increase is the order of the day. I doubt they will take them, as they just can't sell enough seats at a profit.
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 10:45 am

Virgin Atlantic Airways has been kneaded and pressed into a Delta shaped cake tin. It would have been better if Virgin Atlantic had changed its name to Delta East Atlantic Airways. The old Virgin slogan "4 Engines 4 Longhaul" isn't suitable for the new 49% owner. The real question is when will Delta East Atlantic Airways start buying old A330 to suppliment its fleet?
 
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Polot
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 11:25 am

While VS's current (and actually profitable) strategy with DL makes it likely that no A380 will be in their fleet anything soon, let's not kid ourselves. VS was back pedaling and moving away from the A380 long before DL came into the picture.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 11:53 am

SRB ordered the A380 in the year 2000 at the time all the initial launch orders came into Airbus, He envisioned the a different future then, Virgin probably will never fly them. The question has to be asked though, if a Long Haul airline flying from LHR can't fill an A380 then where can it be filled ? Virgin Atlantic could fly the whale to many of its destinations and fill it and could launch an entirely new concept in Upper Class.
 
starguy
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 12:39 pm

Virgin Atlantic is too small an airline to sustain the types of losses that come along with the low season and operating such large aircraft as the B744 and A380. I would much rather see VS filling smaller, more efficient aircraft year round and turning a profit than being fixated on large aircraft that would in the end break the airline with the loss of thousands of jobs. Virgin will announce what's it wants to announce, when it wants to announce it. I wouldn't hold your breath in the meantime. The B787 is a beautiful aircraft at Virgin and things are looking good for the future of the company, The focus on aligning their transatlantic operation with Delta has undoubtedly been the right course for Virgin to take and there is no shame in it, business is business.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 1:32 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
SRB ordered the A380 in the year 2000 at the time all the initial launch orders came into Airbus, He envisioned a different future then...

If any airline could have introduced the "cruise ship" items that were talked about in the early days of the A380 program (on board spas, casinos, etc.), it would have probably been Virgin Atlantic.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 1:35 pm

Could they swap the orders for a different type?
 
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winterlight
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 1:46 pm

The specially built hangar at LHR proves they were serious about it at the time.
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Stitch
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting 777X (Reply 13):
Could they swap the orders for a different type?

They might have already done so in 2011 when they placed an order for 6 A330-300s with Airbus (which were then sold and leased-back from AerCap along with four additional A330-300s on direct lease).
 
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Revelation
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 2:32 pm

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 3):
Of course they were serious about ording it at one point, but things change.

Indeed they do. Ask Skymark and Kingfisher.
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pasu129
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
The question has to be asked though, if a Long Haul airline flying from LHR can't fill an A380 then where can it be filled ?

I see VS A380 to LAS daily from LGW or LHR to compete with BA   
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ScottB
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 3:09 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
SRB ordered the A380 in the year 2000 at the time all the initial launch orders came into Airbus, He envisioned the a different future then, Virgin probably will never fly them.

LHR is a very, very different market compared to the day VS placed its A380 orders. The key changes have been the end of the Bermuda II agreement, which meant the end of U.S.A.-LHR being restricted to four carriers to a select set of airports, along with the rise of the transatlantic joint ventures/alliances, which have led to traffic being focused even more tightly within those alliances.

VS is unlikely to ever have enough slots to offer a significant portfolio of connections beyond LHR, so DL will flow the vast majority of its traffic over the hubs of its other JV partners -- AMS, CDG, & FCO. The plus, though, is that VS can tie into DL's strong domestic hub & focus city network.

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 8):
Virgin Atlantic Airways has been kneaded and pressed into a Delta shaped cake tin. It would have been better if Virgin Atlantic had changed its name to Delta East Atlantic Airways.
Quoting kaichinshih (Reply 4):
It should change its name to "Delta Atlantic".
Quoting TC957 (Reply 5):
Or Virgin Atlanta

There's a lot of truth to that -- it's pretty obvious from the fact that VS has gone into both DTW and ATL since DL purchased SQ's 49% stake. And as a result, the VS fleet probably ends up being optimized with the same sizes of aircraft DL operates over the Atlantic -- mostly sized between the 763 and 772. The 789 and A333 fit perfectly into that strategy.

But in the end the A380 is a poor fit into the VS of the 2010's. They might be able to use them on one or two JFK-LHR frequencies, but frequency is valued between Kennedy & Heathrow, and the competition is basically hourly at peak times.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
The question has to be asked though, if a Long Haul airline flying from LHR can't fill an A380 then where can it be filled ?

LGW

Quoting starguy (Reply 11):
Virgin Atlantic is too small an airline to sustain the types of losses that come along with the low season and operating such large aircraft as the B744 and A380. I would much rather see VS filling smaller, more efficient aircraft year round and turning a profit than being fixated on large aircraft that would in the end break the airline with the loss of thousands of jobs.

Exactly, because....

Quoting ScottB (Reply 18):
The key changes have been the end of the Bermuda II agreement, which meant the end of U.S.A.-LHR being restricted to four carriers to a select set of airports

So that leaves 2 markets that can really use the lift of the 388....MCO and LAS and those can be filled with 744's on a lot lower lease than a 388, why spend the capex on planes that you can only fill 6 months out of the year when you have aircraft on cheap leases that you can fill 10 months out of the year.

VS under Craig Kreeger is a whole different beast than VS under Steve Ridgway, Branson actually decided to go outside his band of friends for once and brought in someone who knows how to run an airline, while many on here point at Delta, the real cause of the shift in thinking is Kreeger, certainly DL has helped, but that is mostly as ScottB says :

Quoting ScottB (Reply 18):
The plus, though, is that VS can tie into DL's strong domestic hub & focus city network.

This cannot be understated, but in order to make tat work well, frequency rules over size.


So back to the original question, no, there will be no 380's in VS colours.
 
LN-KGL
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 4:05 pm

The A380 need to be flown out of a hub. Virgin Atlantic will not have a hub at LHR after Little Red has ceased to exist, and after that the passengers to fill their flights will all be terminating at LHR.

Not even BA can fill an A380 based only on local demand. BA on the other hand has a true hub at LHR - with short/medium haul A32X flights to domestic, European and even more far-flung destinations with the purpose to fill up long haul flights from LHR (point-hub-point).
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 4:49 pm

Quoting United Airline (Thread starter):
Makes me wonder if they are/ever were serious about the order.

They paid deposits. Nobody would pay a deposit if they weren't serious.
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airbazar
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:10 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
The question has to be asked though, if a Long Haul airline flying from LHR can't fill an A380 then where can it be filled ?

You left off 1 very important word in that sentence: Small. Very small, some may say.
Despite all its publicity, VS is a small airline. They're about half the size of TAP Portugal for example. Can you imagine TP with a fleet of A380's? Ridiculous.
 
B8887
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:19 pm

Yes, I think they were serious about the order. VS's main hub is at LHR, which justifies an A380 for slot constraints.

VS ordered it a little bit on the "order it, and the passengers will come" basis and I think they were in good faith when they ordered it.

Things changed a little bit, and they may be having second thoughts about it, especially since the DL tie up. I am not sure if they will ever take delivery of it. I would give it maybe a 55pc chance that they will.

Regards.

B8887
 
anstar
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 22):
Despite all its publicity, VS is a small airline. They're about half the size of TAP Portugal for example. Can you imagine TP with a fleet of A380's? Ridiculous.

Its like comparing apples and oranges.

If you look at the long haul fleet which to be honest is what VS is - a long haul carrier they have 39 widebody aircraft. TAP only have 18.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:50 pm

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 1):
Can anybody fill an A380?

Actually, I'm flying Korean to Singapore in the fall. Both flights Atlanta/Incheon were supposed to be 380s, alas, I was demoted to 77W Atlanta to Incheon. But I've been following seating charts for current Flight 036/35, and most of the 380s are full in Business and Economy. First not so much. At the moment, I'm one of about 10 passengers returning to Atlanta on a 380. Unfortunately, I expect that to change. (Oh, their 777 flights all seem to be very heavily booked.) So while KE isn't the densest seating on their jets, the answer is yes, you can fill a 380.
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 5:59 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 14):
The specially built hangar at LHR proves they were serious about it at the time.

Maybe I'm getting senile but I thought Virgin took over the old BMI hangar at Heathrow. Certainly don't remember Virgin ever building one.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 6:21 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 8):
The old Virgin slogan "4 Engines 4 Longhaul"

That was actually an Airbus slogan that SRB usurped.

Quoting adamblang (Reply 21):
They paid deposits. Nobody would pay a deposit if they weren't serious.

....you might want to review the history of Concorde, if you truly believe that.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Bongodog1964
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 6:23 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 10):
he question has to be asked though, if a Long Haul airline flying from LHR can't fill an A380 then where can it be filled ? Virgin Atlantic could fly the whale to many of its destinations and fill it and could launch an entirely new concept in Upper Class.
Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 20):
The A380 need to be flown out of a hub. Virgin Atlantic will not have a hub at LHR after Little Red has ceased to exist, and after that the passengers to fill their flights will all be terminating at LHR.

LN-KGL has summed the situation up fairly well, VS have never had any sort of meaningful feed at LHR, even with Little Red. When that closes they have no feed at all. The other problem is that they have never offered a comprehensive route network from LHR. If a business were only interested in flying to one of the small number of destinations offered by VS there is no problem putting their corporate account with VS, if however they have a requirement to fly more extensively VS not only don't fly there themselves but haven't been members of an alliance.
 
delta88
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:15 pm

It seems to me VS simply ordered it under the idea of, "hey that thing looks awesome, it costs a boat load of money, but hey all the other big carriers are gonna get it so we should too! Lets buy that!" Thats what it seems. It sure would be interesting to see a VS A380 in BOS but one can only dream~   
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airbazar
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting anstar (Reply 24):
If you look at the long haul fleet which to be honest is what VS is - a long haul carrier they have 39 widebody aircraft. TAP only have 18.

So what? TP transported 12 million passengers in 2014. VS transported 6 million. No matter how you slice it, an A380 for them was never going to be justified. They're simply too small of an airline, and as you pointed out they have little feed. IB is much larger of an airline and even for them an A380 would be hard to justify.
 
Armodeen
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:30 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 20):
The A380 need to be flown out of a hub.

You don't consider LHR a hub? VS might have lost its east - west connectivity with the "Delta Atlantic" route restructuring, but there will be hub operations in VS' future in the shape of Skyteam codeshares. Yes, I am sure VS will join Skyteam at some point.

*edit* Also VS does offer connections beyond LHR on other airlines, BA being a common one (I have personally done DUB - LHR - DTW and OSL - LHR - JFK on just such a combination, all interlined and just a normal connection apart from changing terminals at LHR).

[Edited 2015-05-19 12:34:29]
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 7:49 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 26):
Maybe I'm getting senile but I thought Virgin took over the old BMI hangar at Heathrow. Certainly don't remember Virgin ever building one.

I thought the VS hangar was built next door to the BMI hangar.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/7456790036/

[Edited 2015-05-19 12:55:01]
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speedbored
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 8:29 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 32):
I thought the VS hangar was built next door to the BMI hangar.

Yes, you are quite right. They did indeed build a hangar, to accommodate their A340-600s, and big enough for potential A380s:
http://www.breakingtravelnews.com/news/article/btn40004332/

Seems that I am indeed going senile  
 
rtfm
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 8:32 pm

Quoting DL_Mech (Reply 32):
I thought the VS hangar was built next door to the BMI hangar.

Correct - BA now owns the ex-BMI hangar.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Tue May 19, 2015 9:20 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):

Pretty sure some of those A330s may have been converted from their outstanding A340 orders. The A330 order was announced in 2009 and it had been over 2 years since they took delivery of their last A340-600.

As to some of the talk about what will replace the 'leisure' 747s, if VS aren't going to take delivery of the A380s on order, you would think that Airbus would be doing what they can to sell them some A330neo's or A350s instead. The former VS expressed interest in before it was formally launched and the latter I still think the A350-1000 would work well for VS - 10-12 of these split between LHR and the busier 'leisure' routes alongside some more 787-9s eventually replacing the A330s (which are fine as they are for routes such as UK-US East Coast/Caribbean, except for UCS apparently being more cramped than other types) could work well.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 12:50 am

Quoting Aquila3 (Reply 1):

If every time someone says is VS going to take their A380's you list all of that it sounds as if you are the one wanting to bash the A380. Please stop posting things to get a flaming session started.

VS was a launch customer and has had the order sitting there for over 10 years. Its not is the A380 bad its is VIRGIN king to ever take them. I would say no as they now have no need with their switch to smaller routes & 787-9. With their reductions in routes & Delta' link up they will not need them. Even before they were too large for their needs & I feel they ordered them in a quick lets look big moment and have regretted it. They should have negotiated a switch to A330's or now A330neo's.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 4:01 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 31):

You don't consider LHR a hub?

Not for VS it isn't. They're not exactly a hub and spoke airline. They are predominantly a O&D airline serving the UK leisure markets or markets with large O&D demand from the UK like LOS and MCO. They are a glorified regular charter airline, similar to Condor.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 4:47 pm

VS were serious, you don't order an aircraft you aren't serious about (unless you are EK ordering 140 A380s as a stopgap for the already ordered 779  ). But now that things have changed, it seems like a bit of a white elephant. The fact that the order still technically remains in existence suggests VS and Airbus are looking for a way around the solution, maybe ordering another Airbus type to compensate for the loss or order. I'd suggest the A35K was the most likely, but VS look to be (sensibly) heading for an all-787 fleet. So who knows. But the decision has to be made soonish, because 2019 is only 4 years away.
 
United Airline
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 6:28 pm

They keep on delaying the delivery but not cancelling the whole thing. Why?
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 6:38 pm

Quoting United Airline (Reply 39):
They keep on delaying the delivery but not cancelling the whole thing. Why?

A good guess would be the fate of the deposit on that order. Airbus won't just let them cancel the order and return the money. Instead, Airbus and VA may be talking about converting the 380 order to a 350 variant (most likely the 35J) and shift those deposits over.

Given DL is an owner, they are likely part of the negotiations and may be working on a larger order involving VA/DL and AF, anything is possible.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 7:40 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 40):
A good guess would be the fate of the deposit on that order. Airbus won't just let them cancel the order and return the money.

Is there an educated estimate as to how large the deposit actually is? VS placed its order relatively early in the game - long before the eventual travails and delays of the A380 program were known. Isn't it possible that VS was able to renegotiate concessions from Airbus regarding contract terms? Maybe the penalties for canceling aren't as onerous as some are assuming. -ir
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Stitch
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting IslandRob (Reply 41):
Is there an educated estimate as to how large the deposit actually is?


One media source (Bloomberg, I think) claims launch customers were only required to put down around USD 500,000, which would have been around .002% of list at the time.

That being said, one can expect to pay around 1-5% of the final contract price for the initial deposit for a current model airliner from either OEM.
 
AAMDanny
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 8:11 pm

They may had been in the past, but with their new strategy I don't see a place for the A388 within the fleet, it would be a very small sub type, with DL, VS can now offer more frequency's over capacity which is something they struggled to offer in the past which may had made the A388 attractive at the time.
 
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RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Wed May 20, 2015 9:52 pm

Quoting AAMDanny (Reply 43):
VS can now offer more frequency's over capacity which is something they struggled to offer in the past

What has changed that gives them access to (a lot) more LHR slots, which would be required to offer more frequencies going forward from today? It's not that VS or DL were sitting on a lot of unused LHR slots that can now be utilized by VS . . .

I think the DL tie-up was the best thing that could happen to VS. And I do believe that five years from now, the DL-VS combination at LHR will prove to be so successful, that 787s may not be large enough. Since they will have only very limited opportunity to increase their number of slots, I do see some window of opportunity opening up for larger equipment. Not sure if that would be sufficient scope for A380s, but also I'm not yet ready to declare it dead either.


Rgds,
PW100
Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
 
ScottB
Posts: 6745
Joined: Fri Jul 28, 2000 1:25 am

RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Thu May 21, 2015 1:31 am

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 40):
Quoting United Airline (Reply 39):
They keep on delaying the delivery but not cancelling the whole thing. Why?

A good guess would be the fate of the deposit on that order. Airbus won't just let them cancel the order and return the money. Instead, Airbus and VA may be talking about converting the 380 order to a 350 variant (most likely the 35J) and shift those deposits over.

Given the lengthy delays preceding the A380's EIS, it's likely that VS has little skin in the game anymore with respect to those deposits. As I've speculated before, it probably doesn't benefit either Airbus or VS to press the issue on those orders anytime soon. Leaving the orders on the books gives the A380 program more perceived momentum while there's an off-chance that VS could sell its rights/positions to another carrier for a profit at some point in the future.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 44):
And I do believe that five years from now, the DL-VS combination at LHR will prove to be so successful, that 787s may not be large enough. Since they will have only very limited opportunity to increase their number of slots, I do see some window of opportunity opening up for larger equipment.

I don't really see that at all since DL's strategy has been to keep a lid on transatlantic capacity in order to raise yields. And in the event that a larger aircraft were to be needed, the 787-10 would be a good fit for VS's network -- or DL's future A350-900's could also replace VS aircraft at LHR while VS flies other transatlantic markets, akin to how VS replaced DL between MAN & ATL.
 
anstar
Posts: 3150
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2003 3:49 am

RE: Is/Was VS Serious About The A380 Order?

Thu May 21, 2015 6:15 am

Quoting PW100 (Reply 44):
What has changed that gives them access to (a lot) more LHR slots, which would be required to offer more frequencies going forward from today? It's not that VS or DL were sitting on a lot of unused LHR slots that can now be utilized by VS . . .

VS have dropped CPT, BOM, YVR & NRT to free up slots to increase frequencies to JFK, LAX (extra summer only), SFO, MIA (extra in winter only), ATL( extra summer only). the other ATL and DTW are using DL slots.

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