AA 321 LAX-HNL/OGG/LIH/KOA

ripcordd · Fri May 22, 2015 9:07 pm

AA will start replacing the 757 this Aug with the A321H on LAX-Hawaii Routes...

tomcbaker · Fri May 22, 2015 9:13 pm

The writing on the wall has been there for a while but I'm still very sad/sorry to see the 757 leave on these routes. The 757 has been such a staple of California-Hawaii flying for so long. I suppose I could dream that AA would introduce the 32T on this route since they already fly them JFK-LAX but I get that this is a pipe dream. I must admit, though I'm a fairly loyal AA ff, I'd actually rather fly on Hawaiian's A330 than on any A321 from the mainland to HNL simply from a passenger comfort perspective.

ripcordd · Fri May 22, 2015 9:13 pm

Aug 18th Start and they will be weight restricted out of LIH/OGG ahh fun times

BoeingGuy · Fri May 22, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 2):
Aug 18th Start and they will be weight restricted out of LIH/OGG ahh fun times

Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions.

BD338 · Fri May 22, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting ripcordd (Thread starter):
AA will start replacing the 757 this Aug with the A321H on LAX-Hawaii Routes...

I'm flying LAX-LIH at the end of the year on AA, will all the flights be converted to A321 by then or will the 757 continue for a bit longer?

gilesdavies · Fri May 22, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting tomcbaker (Reply 1):

So your happy to fly on an AA 757, but not an A321 because of passenger comfort.

Confused.

ripcordd · Fri May 22, 2015 10:36 pm

They said by dec all lax-Hawaii flights should be switched over

747400sp · Fri May 22, 2015 10:38 pm

No!!!!!!!!!!!!!

. I can not wait, until there a plane that will replace A321, so A321 fans can know what us 757 fans, are going through!

D L X · Fri May 22, 2015 11:03 pm

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 7):
I can not wait, until there a plane that will replace A321, so A321 fans can know what us 757 fans, are going through!

Aging?

Seriously, it's time. 757s are fine birds, but they are cramped and old. The 321 is a nicer ride, and when the 321's replacement comes along, that will be something to celebrate because it means we have progressed even further.

American 767 · Fri May 22, 2015 11:14 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Seriously, it's time. 757s are fine birds, but they are cramped and old. The 321 is a nicer ride, and when the 321's replacement comes along, that will be something to celebrate because it means we have progressed even further.

Yes I agree that the A321 is a nice airplane to fly on, I have flown on it with BA, but if I have the choice between the 757 and the A321 I choose the 757 without hesitation, because the 757 is leaving soon it's now that I have to fly on it before it's too late. The A321 will be around for many more years to come, and on more routes to come. More are on the way.

I know a lot of people dislike the idea of flying on a 757 TATL but I do like to fly on it, whether TATL or domestic. I would not hesitate to choose that one over an A330. I have never flown on the A330 but I would still choose a 757 over an A330 without hesitation.

Ben Soriano

HALFA · Fri May 22, 2015 11:53 pm

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
I have never flown on the A330 but I would still choose a 757 over an A330 without hesitation.

I would suggest that you give the A330 a try. A twin aisle 2-4-2 widebody beats a single aisle 3-3 any day of the week in my opinion.

Aloha,
HALFA

Tomassjc · Sat May 23, 2015 1:33 am

First glance at the thread tittle made me think that AA was going to operate an A321 from LAX to KOA with 3 inter island stops!

ripcordd · Sat May 23, 2015 2:15 am

Same day Aug 18 the 321 replaces 5 RT 738 LAX-ORD as well..

longhauler · Sat May 23, 2015 2:59 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions.

Neither would the B707 or the DC-7 ... and other archaic old birds.

Viscount724 · Sat May 23, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting HALFA (Reply 10):
Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
I have never flown on the A330 but I would still choose a 757 over an A330 without hesitation.

I would suggest that you give the A330 a try. A twin aisle 2-4-2 widebody beats a single aisle 3-3 any day of the week in my opinion.

And a 2-3-2 767 beats the A330. Nothing better than the 767 in terms of seating, with only a 1-in-7 chance of a middle seat. I agree the A330 (or A340) is next best.

HPRamper · Sat May 23, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions.

Yet all I read on here is "Nobody needs or wants the 757! There is no route that needs a 757 anymore!"

tomcbaker · Sat May 23, 2015 3:45 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 5):
So your happy to fly on an AA 757, but not an A321 because of passenger comfort.

Confused.

What exactly is there to be confused about? I never compared the 757 to the A321, I compared the A330 to the A321 (as far as passenger comfort is concerned).

I liked AA's 757 because it's a beautiful airplane (much better looking than the A321 IMO) and a lot of fun to fly on. The takeoff performance is fantastic, and I enjoy the fact that unlike both the A320/A321 and 737/738, it's seldom weight restricted in North America even in the middle of summer in the American southwest where it is HOT and density altitude is ridiculous, as well as on LAX-Hawaii flights with even a strong headwind. I've been flying on 757's between California and Hawaii for 20 years and I have great memories on them, whether it's NW/DL 753's or AA 752's. With that being said, if AA is getting rid of the 757 on this route, I care a lot more about passenger comfort than sentimentality, and as I previously stated, the A330 is a lot more comfortable than the A321. And reliable on this route (i.e., no weight restrictions, and no diversions to SFO for more fuel).

b747400erf · Sat May 23, 2015 5:51 am

Are the 757's going to fly European routes or to be sold for cargo?

ty97 · Sat May 23, 2015 5:55 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
Are the 757's going to fly European routes or to be sold for cargo?

AFAIK, the 757s that fly to Hawaii are not configured as international 757s so they will likely be retired.

ozark1 · Sat May 23, 2015 6:11 am

In all honesty. I would prefer the 757's go before the MD80s. Nice when newer, great power, but minimal IFE, old looking, worn interiors, and it has a higher pax to flight attendant ratio. 757 holds 22/166 with 4 f/a's. 737 holds 16/144 with 4 f/a's. Granted they do put a 5th on on the 757 sometimes. But the plane is just ready to be put out to pasture.

B747forever · Sat May 23, 2015 6:11 am

Quoting ty97 (Reply 18):
Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 17):
Are the 757's going to fly European routes or to be sold for cargo?

AFAIK, the 757s that fly to Hawaii are not configured as international 757s so they will likely be retire

Does anyone have the AA 757 retirement plan? Are they actively retiring 757s, or just let go of them when they reach a major check?

Sevensixtyseven · Sat May 23, 2015 6:37 am

Quoting ty97 (Reply 18):

They may transfer some of the newer Hawaii 757s to Phoenix-Hawaii, the ex-America West 757s that ply these routes are from 1985-1989 and are extremely high in cycles and hours. That can't be done with any current Airbus narrowbody.

Byrdluvs747 · Sat May 23, 2015 6:52 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 5):

So your happy to fly on an AA 757, but not an A321 because of passenger comfort.

I would choose the 757 just to experience that great takeoff. No airbus performs like it.

Max Q · Sat May 23, 2015 8:09 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions.

Correct, you can't replace a Ferrari with a Yugo.

N757ST · Sat May 23, 2015 8:37 am

A more correct analogy is you can't replace a 1985 Ferrari with a brand new Ford Fusion. The reality is with the exception of 2 track days a year, the ford will absolutely replace the Ferrari no problem. No it's not as cool, fast, or sleek... Buts it's a hell of a lot more comfortable and modern.

[Edited 2015-05-23 01:38:51]

astuteman · Sat May 23, 2015 8:55 am

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions.

Funny how it still seems to be economically worthwhile to replace the 757 with an A321, even with weight restrictions ....

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 7):
I can not wait, until there a plane that will replace A321, so A321 fans can know what us 757 fans, are going through!

What if you're a fan of both?

Quoting American 767 (Reply 9):
I know a lot of people dislike the idea of flying on a 757 TATL but I do like to fly on it,

Some of my favourite flights have been TATL on 757's (especially sat at the front end of the CO ones I used to catch

)

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 15):
Yet all I read on here is "Nobody needs or wants the 757! There is no route that needs a 757 anymore!"

Sadly, I suspect the substitution described in the OP is evidence that this is indeed true

Quoting Max Q (Reply 23):
Correct, you can't replace a Ferrari with a Yugo.

True.
But you can replace a 20 year old Ferrari with a brand new BMW M5 that:-
*won't break down
*is twice as economical
*can actually carry 4 passengers and their luggage
*goes every bit as fast as the 20 year old Ferrari could go.

none of which makes the 20 year old Ferrari any less glorious of course

IMO there's nothing wrong with being emotionally attached to 757's. I am.
(or any other plane for that matter)
Reality is reality, though, whatever the emotions
(signed one of A-net's greatest A380 fans

)

Rgds

uberflieger · Sat May 23, 2015 9:36 am

Quoting N757ST (Reply 24):
it's a hell of a lot more comfortable and modern

And a hell of a lot more reliable and economical

Quoting ripcordd (Reply 12):
321 replaces 5 RT 738 LAX-ORD

With universal power outlets & AVOD at every seat, this is the best ride you can catch between the 2 cities.

Archer · Sat May 23, 2015 9:45 am

I agree with HALFA, reply #9
330's are the best - well except for 767's!

Max Q · Sat May 23, 2015 9:46 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 25):
True.
But you can replace a 20 year old Ferrari with a brand new BMW M5 that:-
*won't break down
*is twice as economical
*can actually carry 4 passengers and their luggage
*goes every bit as fast as the 20 year old Ferrari could go.

My 757 doesn't 'breakdown' it is very reliable.

The AB is not 'twice as economical'

4 passengers and bags does sound about right though.

Not that it matters but the 757 is faster !

bastew · Sat May 23, 2015 10:27 am

I will miss the 757 also.

I'm flying AA LAX-HNL end of AUG. On aa.com all the LAX-HNL flights are still showing 757 equip for my date of travel (27AUG). Are AA still to load the 321 into the system or on my date are all the flights still 757?

N757ST · Sat May 23, 2015 10:33 am

Of course the a321 isn't twice as fuel efficient, but a full a321 sharklet on a 4 hour flight can climb directly to 360 and in cruise after the first hour is burning around 5400-6000 lbs/hr. Today's a321 with the a5 engine and winglets aren't the dogs that earlier models were... They have no problem flying a transcontinental while full, (no they can't do it out of DCA or Burbank) they don't cruise in the 20s, and they have PLENTY of payload capability. I've flown it dozens of times transcon while never seeing a MGTW within 25,000 lbs of max, and have only been within 10k of landing weight maybe once or twice. It's no 757, and honestly I don't think Hawaii is a good place to operate the frame, but there's no denying it will do 99% of current 757 routes more effienctly (by a large margin) and more reliably.

astuteman · Sat May 23, 2015 11:24 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 28):
My 757 doesn't 'breakdown' it is very reliable.

I'm sure it is. But you get the point, I assume. Airlines do.

Rgds

us330 · Sat May 23, 2015 11:34 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 26):
With universal power outlets & AVOD at every seat, this is the best ride you can catch between the 2 cities

I disagree. Having flown on an aircraft with AA's new seats, I prefer the old seats. The new seats in coach have no give and feel like an aluminum bleacher with a thin layer of cloth covering it.

airbazar · Sat May 23, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 3):
Funny, the 757 has no problem at all flying from LIH and OGG to the mainland without weight restrictions

But not making money or at least not as much. The fact that AA is willing to take a payload hit should tell you everything.

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Seriously, it's time. 757s are fine birds, but they are cramped and old.

And gas guzzlers

tommy1808 · Sat May 23, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 33):
The fact that AA is willing to take a payload hit should tell you everything.

even with a few tons of payload hit the relative fuelburn/payload is still lower.

Best regards
Thomas

uberflieger · Sat May 23, 2015 1:23 pm

Quoting us330 (Reply 32):
I disagree

I prefer slimline to the thicker, but ergonomically inferior older seats with previous generation foam, that easily wears out. That's not the point though.
Both United & Southwest, American's main ORD-LAX competitors either already have or are in the process of installing them, but only American is offering universal power outlets & AVOD at every seat, which BTW helps alleviate butt hurt

phillyramp270 · Sat May 23, 2015 2:23 pm

Lets talk about the plane itself So what does the H status mean? Is it an CEO or NEO... CFM or IAE? How many ACT's, what's the Density, IFE, etc oh is it ETOPs or EOW?

jfklganyc · Sat May 23, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 35):

I prefer slimline to the thicker, but ergonomically inferior older seats with previous generation foam, that easily wears out. That's not the point though.

Really? I'm all about legroom and the good thing about the slimline seats is that they can squish more people in without sacrificing much

But who the heck wants to sit on a thinner seat for any period of time. Crap.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 30):
Today's a321 with the a5 engine and winglets aren't the dogs that earlier models were...

DONT SAY THAT! It is an a.net myth made up of pixie dust and unicorn horns. More importantly, they are watching...and waiting to pounce on you.

Deny any early model 321 issues. As far as all are concerned, the planes never existed and need not be spoken of. EVER!

roseflyer · Sat May 23, 2015 3:02 pm

How many seats will get blocked off for the LIH-LAX flight? 6500 ft is a short runway.

747400sp · Sat May 23, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 8):
Seriously, it's time. 757s are fine birds, but they are cramped and old. The 321 is a nicer ride, and when the 321's replacement comes along, that will be something to celebrate because it means we have progressed even further.

Well, as somebody who has been on many transcon A321 flights, I can tell you that they can be pretty cramped also.

tommy1808 · Sat May 23, 2015 3:29 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):

How many seats will get blocked off for the LIH-LAX flight? 6500 ft is a short runway.

Probably none, I would think just cargo will be limited.

Best regards
Thomas

flyboy80 · Sat May 23, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):
How many seats will get blocked off for the LIH-LAX flight? 6500 ft is a short runway.

I'm waiting for the same thing to be addressed, perhaps by someone in the TechOps forum-sphere with operator experience.

I've heard rumblings that DL may introduce the 739 to Hawaii, but specifically that LIH would be excluded for that short runway. I've heard the 321 has all around much better takeoff performance then the 739 however, so maybe LIH is a possibility. Still looking at the a321 I always think, that is almost a 757, its a big plane!

Are AA's Hawaii 757s the same as the rest of the AA 757 domestic fleet?

Tomassjc · Sat May 23, 2015 3:46 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 40):

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):

How many seats will get blocked off for the LIH-LAX flight? 6500 ft is a short runway.

Probably none, I would think just cargo will be limited.

And Non Revs....

HNL · Sat May 23, 2015 3:57 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 41):
Are AA's Hawaii 757s the same as the rest of the AA 757 domestic fleet?

Yes

roseflyer · Sat May 23, 2015 4:04 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 41):

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 38):
How many seats will get blocked off for the LIH-LAX flight? 6500 ft is a short runway.

I'm waiting for the same thing to be addressed, perhaps by someone in the TechOps forum-sphere with operator experience.

I've heard rumblings that DL may introduce the 739 to Hawaii, but specifically that LIH would be excluded for that short runway. I've heard the 321 has all around much better takeoff performance then the 739 however, so maybe LIH is a possibility. Still looking at the a321 I always think, that is almost a 757, its a big plane!

United has used 737-900ERs to Hawaii. They can only go to KOA and HNL. I believe that United and Alaska find that the 737-800 has better payload to Hawaii. It does not get weight restricted from the islands except LIH.

Unfortunately delta has much older 737-800s than Alaska. The newer 737s get better fuel burn by a few percent.

N757ST · Sat May 23, 2015 4:08 pm

The a321 is many things... A short field frame it is not. A 6500 foot field on a high density model and flying over 2000 miles.... Good luck. Heck an a320 would possibly be limited on a segment like that.

tommy1808 · Sat May 23, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 45):
A 6500 foot field on a high density model

an Sharklet A321 should get out of a 6500 feet runway with close to 90 tons.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 45):
Heck an a320 would possibly be limited on a segment like that.

yeah, due to lack of MTOW. An A320 can carry 15.5 tons fuel on top of the MZFW, the A321 can carry 19.7 tons of fuel on top of it. Don't let yourself be fooled by the A320 higher range at design load (150pax).

best regards
Thomas

JDAirCEO · Sat May 23, 2015 4:34 pm

The plan for the 757s will keep about 50 of them in the fleet for the foreseeable future:

- The HP 757s will go away as soon as they can cross fleet and get the refurbished 75s to PHX for the Hawaii runs as the HP ones are the oldest in the combined fleet.
- The AA transatlantic fleet that has the "new" business class seats will be upgraded to have the A321T style J seat.
- The upgraded J 757s will also cover PHL transatlantic since the fleet has schedule slack.
- The remaining 757s that were updated with the newer coach cabin will be kept for South/Central America where the performance is needed.

- All LAX Hawaii flying will be covered by a subfleet of A321 aircraft that are ETOPS certified by the end of 2015. Initially just two flights to HNL will be scheduled.

N757ST · Sat May 23, 2015 5:32 pm

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 46):

Quoting N757ST (Reply 45):
A 6500 foot field on a high density model

an Sharklet A321 should get out of a 6500 feet runway with close to 90 tons.

Quoting N757ST (Reply 45):
Heck an a320 would possibly be limited on a segment like that.

yeah, due to lack of MTOW. An A320 can carry 15.5 tons fuel on top of the MZFW, the A321 can carry 19.7 tons of fuel on top of it. Don't let yourself be fooled by the A320 higher range at design load (150pax).

best regards
Thomas

Oh range is not the issue, the thing just uses a lot of runway. I've never come close to MZFW especially on the a321. The a320 doesn't hold enough fuel.

tommy1808 · Sat May 23, 2015 5:43 pm

Quoting N757ST (Reply 48):
Oh range is not the issue, the thing just uses a lot of runway

for that mission the A321 should need quite a bit less runway than the A320.

Best regards
Thomas

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